What happened to them? Their knees buckle out from under them?

Why would I trust any “progressives” who sign on in the future for what they “claim” they will stand up for? They have proven they have no spine and cannot be trusted. Period.

I hate to say this but the REPUK’s are right the Dem’s don’t know how to govern

This bill is the work product of an obviously corrupt process, and if we return these cretins to office on ’10, we deserve it.

A brand new Congress: Change we can believe in!

First of all, the house public option? That we most certainly can delay, it’s a toothless gutless cop out of a PO and we all know it.

“We still have an opportunity to shape the final bill by getting these members to promise – promise – to vote against triggers and opt-outs. Then we can get this done.”

This is exactly what we did last time, we made them promise, and they spit on that promise. What makes you think they will respond to it this time? You refuse to answer that question yet keep telling us this is how we should do it.

“We are most able to affect the debate with the House strategy. There’s just not as much leverage with the Senate, where there are bigger constituencies that respond less to pressure than House members”

I completely disagree. With the house we are trying to influence 60+ members. We only need to influence 1 senator. All we need is one who responds to us to block it there.

The House is a lost cause, and I cannot give anything of myself for this futile cause. FDL needs to change direction instead of trying the same old failed tactic. Because all you’ve told us to do so far is to try the same thing that failed again. Which is by definition insane.

Look, here’s what Bart Stupak said to Ryan Grim at HuffPost:

HuffPost asked Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), the lead Blue Dog negotiator, why he succeeded and the progressives failed.

“Because I didn’t threat[en]. These are the facts,” he said.

But you did threaten, a reporter pointed out.

No, Stupak said, it wasn’t a threat. It was a promise. “No, they know I’ll vote against the rule,” he said.

We still have an opportunity to shape the final bill by getting these members to promise – promise – to vote against triggers and opt-outs. Then we can get this done.

We are most able to affect the debate with the House strategy. There’s just not as much leverage with the Senate, where there are bigger constituencies that respond less to pressure than House members.

Of course they’ll take it, but it’s nothing in the grand scheme, and certainly not enough to motivate them.

They didn’t want the money? Did they give it back?

Is the House bill better than nothing? I don’t think so. It simply throws more money into a dysfunctional and unsustainable system, with only a few improvements at the edges, and it augments the central role of the investor-owned insurance industry. The danger is that as costs continue to rise and coverage becomes less comprehensive, people will conclude that we’ve tried health reform and it didn’t work. But the real problem will be that we didn’t really try it. I would rather see us do nothing now, and have a better chance of trying again later and then doing it right.

and

If a similar bill emerges from the Senate and the reconciliation process, and is ultimately passed, what will happen?

First, health costs will continue to skyrocket, even faster than they are now, as taxpayer dollars are pumped into the private sector. The response of payers — government and employers — will be to shrink benefits and increase deductibles and co-payments. Yes, more people will have insurance, but it will cover less and less, and be more expensive to use.

Time to call this what it is, a failure. If you need to raise money, you need to actually fight for something worth believing in, not a piece of crap PO in a failure of Reform.