all for one republican vote.

Emptywheel reports: “… HuffPost asked Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), the lead Blue Dog negotiator, why he succeeded and the progressives failed.
“Because I didn’t threat[en]. These are the facts,” he said.
But you did threaten, a reporter pointed out.
No, Stupak said, it wasn’t a threat. It was a promise. “No, they know I’ll vote against the rule,” he said ….”

Bottom line folks, NOBODY believes Progressives will vote as a block against Dem. party wishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will FDL support or oppose the so-called HCR bill?

and please, don’t forget the children (please ignore the inflammatory language, the point is the children)

big pharma does well though with the extension of exclusivity.
big insurance with the mandate.

i can’t even bring myself to make a list.

what a disaster.

Bottom line folks, NOBODY believes Progressives will vote as a block against Dem. party wishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we didn’t even whip the 57 who promised to vote against the bill yesterday (and jane helped raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for them based on that promise). i spoke with my rep about it wednesday, and he blew me off.

if progressives have no credibility inside or outside of congress it is out own fault.

I’m pretty cynical, for me it’s Washington politics as usual. Anyone believing Democrats (or Republicans) have more in common with their constituents than they do with each other hasn’t paid much attention to what Washington’s done to ALL of us over the last 30 years. For Jane & team this must be devastating. “Public option” they call it? Amazing. I’m guessing Wall St. Banks was up all night dancing, knowing their next & Congress wore itself out effecting such “dramatic” changes to healthcare.

Can’t the Stupak amendment simply be removed in conference committee? I mean, it’s bad that it got into the House bill, but that doesn’t make it law… yet.

This is what will happen again and again until we pass REAL campaign finance reform. Until we make bribing Congress illegal again, no bill will pass Congress that does not serve the interests of the corporations, and the uber-wealthy who own the corporations.

if progressives have no credibility inside or outside of congress it is out own fault.

You know I am a hardliner against Obama bashing et al, but when you’re right, you’re right. :-)

I will repeat what was EPU’d below — an Anna Quindlen quote from last week: “If the American people want the President to be more like the Obama they elected, perhaps they should start acting more like the voters who elected him.”

I think there’s more to that than a throw-away one-liner.

This shows why the “more and better Democrats” modus operandi doesn’t work. More is irrelevant; better is what is needed.

I really think all these restrictions including Hyde and the multiplicity of restrictions under states rights also are unconstitutional. Is there anyway the principle of restricting legal procedures can be taken to the Supreme Court some day? (when we have a few more liberals on board)

Thanks for the list of Dem enemies. The roll back of individual and constitutional rights. Of course abortion got hit. They continue on the list. And progressive leadership is being “pragmatic”. Sell out morality for short term political survival and koolaid group think. Disgusting.

for what it’s worth, my comments at openleft.

http://www.openleft.com/showComment.do?commentId=196113

My rep Richie Neal MA voted for the Stuppidd er Stupak amendment .
I’m wondering if this was done to secure enough votes to get passage. Several commenters have stated that this amendment could be stripped from the bill at a later time.

There is also the fact that CHIP ends up being killed by this bill.

Better get on the phone to my rep asap , I’m already composing a nice little letter to be sent expressing my concerns about his vote and this bill

thanks barbara,

“If the American people want the President to be more like the Obama they elected, perhaps they should start acting more like the voters who elected him.”

that’s an excellent quote. maybe bashing obama is a way to avoid reflecting on my own responsibilities.

I agree ,as long as our elected officials keep getting elected using corporate dollars we can only expect them to support those corporate interests

for what it’s worth, i was assured yesterday by knowledgable person in my rep’s office (jim mcgovern MA) that we in MA would be protected from this travesty because we already have a waiver from the HHS. we can keep our exchanges including commonwealthcare for subsidized insurance (and apparently the insurance that covers abortion services — although of course that has to be paid for with state, not fed funds. but that’s already what is being done). this is also important because for the most part, MA subsidies are higher than the proposed fed ones.

Electing Obama was just the beginning ,we can’t expect the man to change DC politics and policies all by himself.
I’ve always felt I was in this for the long haul and that I would have to continue working towards change.

The House bill is DOA in the Senate. So I guess we start all over in the Senate and God knows what the hell will be in that bill. So I’m not too worried about Stupid’s bill. It has a long ways to go until it is a law.

And I also don’t see how a LEGAL PROCEDURE can be banned by the ins. thieves. Wonder if anyone checked on the legality of this piece of garbage bullshit bill.

You mention an enemies list. Since every progressive in the house ( both republicans and democrats) voted for the health bill after the Stupak amendment was put in, that makes them all enemies of women and womens rights! There’s no way around it. Nancy Pelosi voted against women when she voted for the bill with the amendment in it. They all had they opportunity to send the bill back to committee and work to get these awful restrictions out. They Chose not to do it! We progresives need better people to represent us! They just sold millions of women down the river!

You call the insurance companies thieves? Is that because they are stealing money and making obscene profits? They make less profit than McDonalds. Does that mean Ronald is a thief too? Also its not these companies that made this stuff illegal. It is our elected reps who voted for this crappy bill.

Are there any other land mines buried in this bill?

Obama is acting like the Obama I thought I elected — A conservative, which nowadays is called a centrist, who isn’t interested in changing much other than the flow of campaign dollars.

As mentioned many times before, we also have to stop giving to cause organizations like NARAL that don’t actually work for the issue they were created to support.

Actually, if you read the amendment, it supercedes this exemption. Federal trumps State. You can use the state exchange but for the federal one sorry it cannot cover abortions. I’m sure there will be legal challenges to this garbage, but who knows how it will turn out?

This the rock and hard place we find ourselves between. Can’t change things without real campaign finance reform, and which reps/senators will willingly cutoff the “legal” bribes they are getting.

Forget the Blue dogs who voted for this amendment.

Let’s talk about the cowardly Progressives. How many of them signed the letter swearing to vote against a bill that didn’t meet the standards they had set. But let’s look at this bill, negotiated rates, abortion, and we didn’t even get the chance to vote on the single payer amendment because the leadership was scarred.

Gijalva came on this site and said he would block any bad bill.

He voted yea.

So all of you are saying we need to primary these Democrats, I say what does it matter? Progressives are spineless. Even if we had 200 Progressives in congress they would cave on every single issue. they do not have the spine, to stand up to leadership.

The only choice is a 3rd party. But that won’t happen because ask any Liberal who he’s going to vote for on election day “the Lesser of two evils”

As long as that’s true the Democrats can keep on butchering bills and lining their pockets from corporations.

Revolution now!

Thank You !

and I expect a fundraising plea from both orgs – ‘Choice is at risk, help us continue the fight for poor and working women !!’ any second now

That’s what I now call Obama, I had a sense during the 08 campaign but now it is official, he is a conservative.

Sure there are. How about if you dont have insurance for any part of the year. You can be fined $25000 and thrown in jail for five years if you dont pay a government penalty for not having the insurance in the first place. They dont say if there is any acceptable reason to not have insurance ever.

For me the responsibility belongs solely to the Representatives. They’re the ones with the option of following what their constituencies wanted or what the WH and their corporate donors wanted. They made the choice. It’s now our responsibility to make them pay the price.

Never. Give. Up.

I do not like the Stupak Amendment. I will work to see it is stripped from the final legislation or muted.

I think we are failing to recognize that last night progressives had their greatest political triumph in well over a generation. The headlines everywhere are tha the House of Represenatives passed historic, sweeping health care reform.

My reply will not be pretty. But I haven’t given to NARAL in years. In fact, I haven’t figured out what NARAL has done in the last few year.

Jane seems to be on twitter pushing single payer now. Maybe I am not understanding correctly. But people here who have brought up single payer in the past have endured a certain amount of snark for being unrealistic. I keep going back and forth on whether it was a flawed approach to spend the last few months selling a prepackaged compromise (the public option) when there was not anyone in particular who we were compromising with.

For all the talk about small government, these representatives are more than happy to give the government more power as long as it is used to restrict a woman’s right to choose.

Yes, but sex is icky, and should be kept behind closed doors. /s

These guys seem to think it only happens to ‘bad’ people. They are so wrong that it isn’t funny. They’ve never even heard of some of the legitimate medical reasons for abortion, and they’d probably be throwing up in their recycling bins if they did.

I’ll ask you the same question I asked another proponent of a 3rd party being the answer.

What are you gonna do until you’ve got a viable 3rd party? How many 3rd party people occupy elected city, county or state offices in your state right now?

I think you’re right. The Dems negotiated with themselves – which is too silly. The Rs didn’t really enter into the whole thing because they were not going to vote for it anyway. It was, however, really interesting to watch the Dems tie themselves into tiny little knots.

I can’t speak for Jane, or anybody else for that matter, but since Obama had taken single payer off the table right off the bat, during the campaign actually, we fought for a bill that would, hopefully, lead to single payer down the road. Remember, it took 3 years, repeat 3 years, to get ICE to stop locking infants up in their immigrant gulags.

This stuggle isn’t over. Not by a long shot.

It’s wrong to blame any of those 64, when the House leadership damn well knew what the vote count would be before they decided to allow it to come to the floor.
They knew it would pass – while the underlying bill might not.

Nancy and Steny pitted womens rights v. healthcare for some, and for that they should be stoned and their titles stripped.

So girls, here it is in a nutshell: no one stood up for us and our rights. Not the House and not the White House and not the Senate.

They chose instead, to protect the rights of Bart Stupak and the killers of Dr. Tiller.

.

Last night’s vote was a stunning assault on women’s health and rights. In just a matter of hours, our elected officials fell hook, line and sinker for the anti-choice position, dispensing with a credible compromise on abortion and adopting a bill that would leave millions of women worse off than they already are today.

We really hope that members of the Senate refuse to take the political bait which sullied the House vote and protect women’s health. Health care reform is supposed to provide affordable health care coverage to all Americans. Yet for women, this legislation gives with one hand and takes away with the other, forcing millions to buy insurance that does not meet all of their medical needs.

-Center for Reproductive Rights

we just don’t get a viable third party like a gift. if we are serious about a third party, we need to start working on it until we get a viable one. considering the antipathy towards the Green Party even on the lefty blogosphere, I doubt there is support for that now; but if disappointment and anger over the Dem leadership continues to simmer, it might as well explode some day and produce the momentum for a viable third party.

Is Center for Reproductive Rights going to pressure Pro-Choice House Dems to vote against the final health care bill unless the Stupak Amendment is removed? If not, what other strategies do you suggest to defeat it, either in the Senate or the Conference Committee?

Yo, I’m back. Sorry to have been away so long but I was traveling and decided not to take my computer.

Is this abortion thing really that big an issue or are you people just trying to make it one? Have you ever heard of birth control pills? Even the poorest of women can afford those. They practically give them away at Planned Parenthood.

Lordy, how we missed you. (sigh)

“No woman plans an unplanned pregnancy” – Jan Schakowsky. Nuff’ said.

Why thanks! Actually, I missed you people also. I’ll take my computer next time I travel.

“You people…?” All hail the Authoritarian tinman1967. *spit*

Bull twaddle.

Birth control pills cost about $55 month x 12 months or $660 oer year
IUD costs about $650
Nuva Ring is about $600 per year.
Indeed some planned parenthood offices do offer subsidized BCPs but not as cheaply as was once available as they, along with the rest of us, have to pay FULL PRICE to the pharma companies.
Insurance pay only a small portion ($4 per month) if any.

Please look to your local abortion provider and donate…. do not give to corporate NARAL or Planned Parenthood.

1. birth control doesn’t always work.even the pill has a failure rate .
3. managing birth control and reproductive health care decisions over a woman’s entire lifetime is complex and involves time , expense and energy you probably cannot even fathom. this includes women who have children as well as women who do not.
2. there are situations which some women face: rape, date rape, duress.
Also factor in the relationship with the man: whether he is a husband, partner, or in some cases, abuser. this is a serious and valid issue. Abortion is a legal medical procedure and women have the right to seek one, without needing to explain the seriousness or reasons for their personal decision. just like i don’t need to know why why you decide to get a vasectomy.

At minium wage that is about two weeks work to pay for birth control. Not cheap by any means

I believe we can advocate strongly for issues and still support the president.
we need to do both.

It is similar to supporting the troops but opposing the war. I find that I can do both without compromise.

we must continue to support President Obama. he was the best candidate and is a hardworking, forward thinking, president.We can still try to influence his perspective and policies, as well as the senate and congress, and our neighbors and community.

Remember there ARE many in the middle, there always have been, there always will be. I am on the middle in some cases and far from any sort of purist. I think most of us have contrdictions and vary on our issues.
I think you can be vigorous and still respectful. Use your wit and your mind, not just your anger. Being effective trumps all. That is not the same as watering down your position.
It is our responsibility and speak up, and not yield the whole floor to those who would drag this country back into regression ..oh gad, i don’t even have a name for it…

but with regard to advocacy and support for this Admin. To me it is not either /or. it is either /and
with gusto

that said, yes i am appalled by the passage of the Stupak amendment.
time to support reproductive rights…again

THey’re all cowards. The only person in Washington who isn’t is Grayson.

Every other FUCKING DEMOCRAT in Washington is a mealy-mouthed coward, and we are fucked. If I get cancer, I’m going to commit suicide on the capitol steps in Washington. I’m going to die anyway. Maybe such an act will have the effect of the buddhist monks in ‘Nam who immolated themselves.

They are ALL COWARDS!

From a strictly financial/ insured pool perspective, it makes no sense to exclude abortion coverage.

It is far more expensive to pay for a woman’s pregnancy, delivery,complications from pregnancy and child rearing than it is to pay for an early term abortion.
So I would think private insurers would WANT to offer such coverage, especially if they were competing with a government option that did not.
cynical, but true.

I believe we can advocate strongly for issues and still support the president.
we need to do both.

Not only will I not support Obama for one more moment, the only politician I WILL support, I can’t even vote for.

My voting days are over. There is no difference. the game is rigged and the only thing that will have ANY effect can’t even be mentioned on this site. Those of you who know me know what I mean and I believe it’s the only way.

Maybe we need a mass suicide of cancer patients on the Capital steps to get people’s attention.

I will do as you suggest. I am very much pro choice and unwanted pregnancies hurt us all…especially the child.
The pills used to be about $2 a month but that was back in the early 70′s.

Now that I’ve vented -except to tell that tin*** whacko to stuff his [edited by mod] our answer to the House leadership trickery is do do exactly what Baynor warned we would do: attack Stupak after the final vote and stop it from becoming part of the final bill.

The House had to have lied by saying Stupak was a trade-off to get final support. Bullshit. If it wasn’t for the net roots last minute whipping the final would not have come close to passing. Because of Stupak we lost votes.

Now the real war begins. Say NO to any bill with Stupak.

Now stop beating up on yourself, and help us finish this.

We want you to live to help us kick some asses. If the party dies we die together and go out in style -YES?? :}

Somebody didn’t get their nap in today.

After McClellan lost yet another Civil War battle, Lincoln finally got the point and got rid of that general. It took some time to find a leadership bold and bloody enough to prosecute the war in earnest.

And so it is with the Democratic leadership. I’ve held off commenting and criticizing, as I felt others were closer to the real action, and I’ve got my hands full with torture news and info, but this has got to be the final straw of any obeisance to the Pelosi-Obama “progressive” crowd. I thought they were at least professional, but they have “organized” one of the great defeats for progresives, and for women in particular, that I have seen in my lifetime.

When they started this war, they should have foreseen and planned for just the eventuality of something like the Stupak amendment. But it appears they relied only on hubris and hope in blind luck. Or perhaps they never really cared, as they are so far removed from the real lives of poor and working class Americans that absorbing this kind of defeat is only grist for future campaign contribution flyers, they must think.

No, when the crappy health care provisions, made reactionary now via the Stupak amendment, are combined with the Democrats support for the adventurist wars in the bogus “war on terror”, and a failure to call accounts on some of the worst war crimes in this nation’s history… then we don’t have a progressive leadership anymore, but something worse than even the Republicans (who at least show their stripes) — a massive obstacle to progressive change in the country.

Here’s a nice graphic showing where the districts of these enemies of women have their Districts. The solid colors [either Blue or Red] are those who voted for the Stupak Amendment

One talking point I think people should make is how this Amendment strips women of their already paid for and covered health care benefits. Many women, both individuallly, through theoir unions, and through their employers who realize that providing these options to women keeps good workers and is ethically right, have insurance that covers all aspects of reproductive choice.

This bill actually creates conflict in Americas workplaces. It makes places of employment battle zones over this issue and will set worker-against-worker and workers against employers in ways never confronted in the past.

If that employer opts to place his health care programs into a competitive pool to reduce costs will have to remove from his/her female employees their full reproductive choices. If the women protest…this would immediately create a conflict with others in their workplace who want more affordable plans. Is this really the sort of war we want in the United States? Where fellow employees are in control of others reproductive choices…where relationships are sundered over what should be a private matter?

Furthermore one could read the Stupak Amendment as saying that no woman who accepts a subsidy from the government (which would be any woman or family within 200%-250% of the poverty line…for example single women that earn under $40K) would be able to use that money to purchase a health care plan that includes abortion.

Actually, if you read the amendment, it supercedes this exemption. Federal trumps State. You can use the state exchange but for the federal one sorry it cannot cover abortions. I’m sure there will be legal challenges to this garbage, but who knows how it will turn out?

what i was told is that we would keep the state exchanges, and state residents would also have access to the fed exchanges. but since the state is better (better subsidies, for example, and also abortion services) state residents would be ok. i’ll believe it for sure when i see it, but i was relieved to hear that there might be an out for MA state residents. on the other hand the fact that i’m hoping we get to keep romneycare instead of obamacare is pretty depressing in and of itself.

amen.

What has Obama done to try to change the practices in D.C. since he became President?

Next, of course, our brave legislators will make certain abortion is very, very expensive, so none but the wealthy ever has access to the procedure. Just remember, the Right also wants to outlaw birth control.

Well that would be nice if I thought the President supported anything I believe in. But he does not. He is busy being the Tony Blair of the Democratic party. Good at it too. I could not believe after Stupak he had the nerve to send a begging letter 10 minutes later. I’ve taken my name off the list. It’s right up there with NOW supporting Sarah Palin.

I have to ask myself what is the difference. In the past 30 years I haven’t been much affected by the Republicans. No I have to wait for a Democratic majority for crap like that. Abortion per se doesn’t affect me. It is the lying, sniveling, throw women under the bus and then ask them to accept the necessity. In fact as good little women they should crawl under on their own.

“Is this abortion thing really that big an issue or are you people just trying to make it one? Have you ever heard of birth control pills? Even the poorest of women can afford those. They practically give them away at Planned Parenthood.”

This doesn’t just affect women who have an initially unwanted pregnancy, but also those who wish to get pregnant. Saw this list on another site. None of these conditions are a choice, but they are some of the health problems that can be caused or exacerbated by pregnancy.

Auto-immune disorders (see microchimerism and scleroderma, lupus)
Bacterial Vaginosis
Cholestasis
Death
Depression
Infection
Incontinence
Ectopic Pregnancy
Fistula
Gestational Diabetes
HELLP Syndrome
Immune deficiency
Hyperemesis Gravidarum
Miscarriage
Molar Pregnancy
Placenta Accreta
Placenta Previa
Preeclampsia
Pregnancy Induced Hypertension
Ruptured Uterus
Urinary Tract Infection

Now are we left to encourage women to have abortions early and often, because if they choose to go forward with pregnancy and develop dangerous complications or have health problems exacerbated, they will be left to pay for termination unless they are about to flatline? It only gets more dangerous and expensive the longer one waits. Unfortunately, women put their health and life at risk to gestate and give birth, and much of the US has decided the reward for that is to turn our backs on these women if something goes wrong. This is the thanks women can expect for taking the risk.

“The Stupak amendment would effectively ban insurance companies from selling insurance plans that cover elective abortion on the individual and small group market.”

Know I am likely to get slapped down hard at FDL for what I am about to say. But I don’t want public tax dollars to support “elective” abortion. I have had abortions in my younger years, my partner at the time (eventually husband) and I had to pay for those decisions ourselves. Too many people not taking responsibility for their sexual activities. That is their decision. But taxpayers should not be required to pay for those “elective” decisions.

I have had to examine my stance against unnecessary wars and the subsequent loss of life and applying that same standard to ‘elective” abortions. I do not want my tax dollars going to either “elective” choice

In the mean time I will do everything in my power to make sure any child born has access to health care, a quality education, and living wages.

It’s not just taxpayer dollars involved here though. The Stupak amendment would block existing health plans that offer abortion coverage IF groups or persons in that health plan are receiving any federal funds/subsidies. It effectively blocks most of the people from having coverage. And even Stupak admits (proudly) that his amendment is far more restrictive than existing laws.

And the “well, she can purchase a supplemental plan that will cover it” is a bit of nonsense that has been put out there as well.

What it boils down to is well-to-do women will be able to pay the costs but the poor women receiving subsidies will be pretty much forced to have the unwanted child with all the subsequent costs (Child abuse and neglect, unable to afford the child, etc) will then be borne by the taxpayers.

Edit: and leaving aside everything else, I am also against wars of choice and the death penalty and find nothing inconsistent in those views with supporting a woman’s choice. If there is a concern, the man should wear a rubber and be done with it.

But I don’t want public tax dollars to support “elective” abortion.

Do you also want to deny coverage for “elective” pregnancy?

“Too many people not taking responsibility for their sexual activities.”

and STDs?

What about other “elective” conditions such as lung cancer in smokers, atherosclerosis, hypertension, Type II diabetes, Hepatitis C, malnutrition, cachexia, dehydration, decompression sickness, motorcycle accident injuries, osteoporosis? If one practices preventive medicine and measures consistently, all of these are largely avoidable.

Should we turn our noses at patients who suffer myocardial infarction if they don’t take a statin consistently? It’s no different than women having to take a birth control pill to prevent pregnancy.

Or is it just that we need to discriminate against women of reproductive age who choose to prevent the physical harms that result from pregnancy because they are dirty, dirty girls who need to be taught a lesson?

I support a womans choice I just do not want to pay for that choice when it is “elective”

But that’s part of the problem. Stupak does not make any considerations for when it might be a medical necessity. It blanket blocks the funds from being spent on abortion coverage, regardless of medical necessity.

And I’m sorry but why should the Congress by forcing insurance companies and telling them what they can and cannot cover? Do you support coverage of Viagra and Cialis prescriptions? Where do you draw the line?

If you support Stupak, you are supporting restrictions on women’s right to choose what happens to themselves.

I believe you are very wrong in this.