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	<title>Comments on: VIDEO:  AMSA Medical Students &amp; Me Visit Senate To Stop Anna Eshoo/PhRMA Bill</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:33:20 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Knoxville</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58951</link>
		<dc:creator>Knoxville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58951</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now all of these numbers and companies are just hypotheticals. But it could be that cozy, Kiss My Ass (KMA) insurance and F*ck yoU PhRMA make out, Joe pays or dies.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You&#039;ve identified the problem nicely, though it would seem that in your scenario (with Ki$$ My A$$ Insurance Co having F*ck youU PhRMA in its investment portfolio in order to benefit from dividends and increased market cap), Ki$$ My A$$ Insurance Co would have to have insiders&#039; knowledge - material non-public information - of F*ck youU PhRMA&#039;s potential product lines between the time of the successful completion of testing and final approval for sale and distribution, no?

For example, take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?Symbol=CTIC&amp;&amp;ShowChtBt=Refresh+Chart&amp;DateRangeForm=1&amp;CP=0&amp;PT=7&amp;C9=1&amp;ComparisonsForm=1&amp;CE=0&amp;DisplayForm=1&amp;D4=1&amp;D5=0&amp;D3=0&amp;ViewType=0&amp;PeriodType=7&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this 5-year chart for the stock of Cell Therapeutics&lt;/a&gt;. This company&#039;s stock literally went from trading at $300 per share five years ago, to $150, to $50-$60, to trade now at around $1 a share. They don&#039;t/can&#039;t offer dividends. To the best of my knowledge, that&#039;s because several of their potential products failed to get approval, despite earlier hype about potential.

But I agree re your proposed solution: the wingnuts would have aneurisms!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Now all of these numbers and companies are just hypotheticals. But it could be that cozy, Kiss My Ass (KMA) insurance and F*ck yoU PhRMA make out, Joe pays or dies.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;ve identified the problem nicely, though it would seem that in your scenario (with Ki$$ My A$$ Insurance Co having F*ck youU PhRMA in its investment portfolio in order to benefit from dividends and increased market cap), Ki$$ My A$$ Insurance Co would have to have insiders&#8217; knowledge &#8211; material non-public information &#8211; of F*ck youU PhRMA&#8217;s potential product lines between the time of the successful completion of testing and final approval for sale and distribution, no?</p>
<p>For example, take a look at <a href="http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?Symbol=CTIC&amp;&amp;ShowChtBt=Refresh+Chart&amp;DateRangeForm=1&amp;CP=0&amp;PT=7&amp;C9=1&amp;ComparisonsForm=1&amp;CE=0&amp;DisplayForm=1&amp;D4=1&amp;D5=0&amp;D3=0&amp;ViewType=0&amp;PeriodType=7" rel="nofollow">this 5-year chart for the stock of Cell Therapeutics</a>. This company&#8217;s stock literally went from trading at $300 per share five years ago, to $150, to $50-$60, to trade now at around $1 a share. They don&#8217;t/can&#8217;t offer dividends. To the best of my knowledge, that&#8217;s because several of their potential products failed to get approval, despite earlier hype about potential.</p>
<p>But I agree re your proposed solution: the wingnuts would have aneurisms!</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58950</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58950</guid>
		<description>It struck me in a post earlier this week - Production cost of these medicines  may be 20% of the price charged - the patient could be paying the entire cost of producing the medicine as a copay. The insurance portion of payment would be profit, SGA, marketing, ... and could be coming back to the insurance company through their investments in the PhRMA companies.

Like this:

Joe has health insurance with KMA insurance company.
He needs a biological drug called Savelife that costs $60,000 a year made by FU PhRMA company. He has a 20% copay, so he&#039;s on the hook for $1,000 a month.

FU PhRMA manufactures the drug at a cost of $1,000 a month, including recovering the cost of 14 years development it took to being Savelife to market.

KMA insurance pays FU PhRMA $4,000 a month for Joe&#039;s Savelife. FU PhRMA is part of KMA insurance&#039;s investment portfolio, so KMA benefits from FU PhRMA&#039;s dividend and increased market cap from their successful marketing of Savelife to all the Joes whose lives are saved.

Now all of these numbers and companies are just hypotheticals. But it could be that cozy, Kiss My Ass (KMA) insurance and F*ck yoU PhRMA make out, Joe pays or dies.

Wingnuts would have aneurisms, but FU PhRMA could be limited to 100% mark up for SGA, profit, etc. FU PhRMA would still be seeing a nice return for developing Savelife, KMA actually pays some of the production cost of the medicine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It struck me in a post earlier this week &#8211; Production cost of these medicines  may be 20% of the price charged &#8211; the patient could be paying the entire cost of producing the medicine as a copay. The insurance portion of payment would be profit, SGA, marketing, &#8230; and could be coming back to the insurance company through their investments in the PhRMA companies.</p>
<p>Like this:</p>
<p>Joe has health insurance with KMA insurance company.<br />
He needs a biological drug called Savelife that costs $60,000 a year made by FU PhRMA company. He has a 20% copay, so he&#8217;s on the hook for $1,000 a month.</p>
<p>FU PhRMA manufactures the drug at a cost of $1,000 a month, including recovering the cost of 14 years development it took to being Savelife to market.</p>
<p>KMA insurance pays FU PhRMA $4,000 a month for Joe&#8217;s Savelife. FU PhRMA is part of KMA insurance&#8217;s investment portfolio, so KMA benefits from FU PhRMA&#8217;s dividend and increased market cap from their successful marketing of Savelife to all the Joes whose lives are saved.</p>
<p>Now all of these numbers and companies are just hypotheticals. But it could be that cozy, Kiss My Ass (KMA) insurance and F*ck yoU PhRMA make out, Joe pays or dies.</p>
<p>Wingnuts would have aneurisms, but FU PhRMA could be limited to 100% mark up for SGA, profit, etc. FU PhRMA would still be seeing a nice return for developing Savelife, KMA actually pays some of the production cost of the medicine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58949</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58949</guid>
		<description>Thanks. I&#039;ve been thinking about it since Saturday, I&#039;m glad I was able to provide a concise statement on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. I&#8217;ve been thinking about it since Saturday, I&#8217;m glad I was able to provide a concise statement on the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58948</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58948</guid>
		<description>it splits across page 1537 and 1538. I copied directly from the legislation the list of changes that do not restart exclusivity.

The giant hole is &quot;not including a modification to the structure of the biological product&quot;, which can include things like &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegylation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PEGylation&lt;/a&gt;, a relatively simple process that makes a large protein more active.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I&#039;ve been away for a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it splits across page 1537 and 1538. I copied directly from the legislation the list of changes that do not restart exclusivity.</p>
<p>The giant hole is &#8220;not including a modification to the structure of the biological product&#8221;, which can include things like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegylation" rel="nofollow">PEGylation</a>, a relatively simple process that makes a large protein more active.</p>
<p>Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I&#8217;ve been away for a while.</p>
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		<title>By: Knoxville</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58947</link>
		<dc:creator>Knoxville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58947</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Do Insurance Companies and Big Pharma bribes trump Majority Rule is this a Democracy or a Corporationocracy?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Corporationocracy? ;-) I&#039;d go with plutocracy. Majority rule and democracy only work when people know what their interests are, when people aren&#039;t tricked into acting against their own interests, and when the rights of minorities are protected. Our democracy seems to be failing on all three counts because, as you say, the plutocrats abuse their power to feed their insatiable avarice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Do Insurance Companies and Big Pharma bribes trump Majority Rule is this a Democracy or a Corporationocracy?</p></blockquote>
<p>Corporationocracy? ;-) I&#8217;d go with plutocracy. Majority rule and democracy only work when people know what their interests are, when people aren&#8217;t tricked into acting against their own interests, and when the rights of minorities are protected. Our democracy seems to be failing on all three counts because, as you say, the plutocrats abuse their power to feed their insatiable avarice.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Hamsher</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58944</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Hamsher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58944</guid>
		<description>Thank you for helping me to understand the difference between market exclusivity and patent.  It was both very helpful and extremely useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for helping me to understand the difference between market exclusivity and patent.  It was both very helpful and extremely useful.</p>
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		<title>By: miguelmas</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58940</link>
		<dc:creator>miguelmas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58940</guid>
		<description>What about Jay Inslee? Mr. Feelgood Liberal from Seattle? Isn&#039;t he a co-sponsor of Eshoo&#039;s amendment? Shouldn&#039;t his chestnuts also be in the open fire?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about Jay Inslee? Mr. Feelgood Liberal from Seattle? Isn&#8217;t he a co-sponsor of Eshoo&#8217;s amendment? Shouldn&#8217;t his chestnuts also be in the open fire?</p>
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		<title>By: Larue</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58932</link>
		<dc:creator>Larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58932</guid>
		<description>You wrote:
&quot;Eshoo latched on to Jane saying evergreening is allowed for changes in route of administration, dosing schedule, dosage form, delivery system, delivery device, or strength in a post a week ago. Eshoo’s bill does prohibit evergreening for those things if those are the only changes.&quot;

Are you SURE Eshoo&#039;s bill prohibits evergreening in the changes you list above? 

I thought I&#039;d read from Jon Walker or someone else (DDAY?) that evergreening is NOT prohibited in changes in route of admin, DOSING schedule (ie: twice a day w/ NEW dose stronger for ONCE a day = new patent), etc. due to a loophole in Eshoo&#039;s amendment? 

Bottom line, though, we agree the amendment is bad policy, bad politics, bad healthcare and bad news! Grrr, them damned politicians!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote:<br />
&#8220;Eshoo latched on to Jane saying evergreening is allowed for changes in route of administration, dosing schedule, dosage form, delivery system, delivery device, or strength in a post a week ago. Eshoo’s bill does prohibit evergreening for those things if those are the only changes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you SURE Eshoo&#8217;s bill prohibits evergreening in the changes you list above? </p>
<p>I thought I&#8217;d read from Jon Walker or someone else (DDAY?) that evergreening is NOT prohibited in changes in route of admin, DOSING schedule (ie: twice a day w/ NEW dose stronger for ONCE a day = new patent), etc. due to a loophole in Eshoo&#8217;s amendment? </p>
<p>Bottom line, though, we agree the amendment is bad policy, bad politics, bad healthcare and bad news! Grrr, them damned politicians!</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58923</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58923</guid>
		<description>Big Pharma charging so much for drugs is bad why it places short term profit for them over the bigger cost to society that tries to pay for these drugs. And the loss to society of all the contributions to society that people to poor to afford these drugs can make.
    There are X amount of Geniuses, out there X amount of Heroes, X amount of Good People they are sprinkled throughout the population every class race religion etc if our society can&#039;t give them the opportunity to flourish because money for good schools and good jobs is tied up in healthcare we lose.
    We lose two ways first we lose all these Great People and other societies won&#039;t because they have less healthcare costs so our society will decline with time relative to these other societies.
     Second we lose when the survivors realize that in our society money is valued more than helping people then trust/cooperation in our society breaks down, old time Morals break down and crime rates will go up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big Pharma charging so much for drugs is bad why it places short term profit for them over the bigger cost to society that tries to pay for these drugs. And the loss to society of all the contributions to society that people to poor to afford these drugs can make.<br />
    There are X amount of Geniuses, out there X amount of Heroes, X amount of Good People they are sprinkled throughout the population every class race religion etc if our society can&#8217;t give them the opportunity to flourish because money for good schools and good jobs is tied up in healthcare we lose.<br />
    We lose two ways first we lose all these Great People and other societies won&#8217;t because they have less healthcare costs so our society will decline with time relative to these other societies.<br />
     Second we lose when the survivors realize that in our society money is valued more than helping people then trust/cooperation in our society breaks down, old time Morals break down and crime rates will go up.</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/05/video-amsa-medical-students-me-visit-senate-to-stop-anna-eshoophrma-bill/#comment-58920</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4467#comment-58920</guid>
		<description>BTW, I know that it is no longer HR3200, I&#039;ll fix that in my LTE. Damn moving targets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I know that it is no longer HR3200, I&#8217;ll fix that in my LTE. Damn moving targets.</p>
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