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	<title>Comments on: House Health Care Bill:  A Death Sentence For My Fellow Breast Cancer Survivors</title>
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	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: hopefulone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57824</link>
		<dc:creator>hopefulone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57824</guid>
		<description>Three points:
1)    Please stop hating the drug companies and start thinking of ways for liberty to provide the solutions.  Herceptin exists.  Why?  Because some wonderful people figured out how to pay for the research and manufacturing and other wonderful people figured out how to make it.  Intellectual property rights, the protections for you to profit on your years of risk and effort, need protection.  If you don&#039;t protect the rights then those wonderful people won&#039;t be able to get an effort for a new drug project approved.  While one company may have IP rights on one solution to a problem another company has an incentive for the next generation instead of just being an IP predator and making copies as quickly as they can.  Government coming in and taking their IP at a price the government sets is not only tyrannical but has a negative effect on the calculus for investing in innovation.
2)    Leaving decisions to government will be a death sentence to many of the most expensive patients.  What was Tom Daschle&#039;s point, that people need to start taking hard diagnoses better--to be more accepting of their fate?  That is not the way we want to reduce costs of medical care.
3)    It is hard for an individual shopping for health insurance.  It is also hard for an employee in a company.  One doesn&#039;t necessarily understand things like a lifetime cap, either because you have to many complex choices and decisions or because your employer doesn&#039;t even give you the options--and you have no clue about costs over time.  Standardizing formats and options may help.  Education may help.  Adding bureaucrats doesn&#039;t help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three points:<br />
1)    Please stop hating the drug companies and start thinking of ways for liberty to provide the solutions.  Herceptin exists.  Why?  Because some wonderful people figured out how to pay for the research and manufacturing and other wonderful people figured out how to make it.  Intellectual property rights, the protections for you to profit on your years of risk and effort, need protection.  If you don&#8217;t protect the rights then those wonderful people won&#8217;t be able to get an effort for a new drug project approved.  While one company may have IP rights on one solution to a problem another company has an incentive for the next generation instead of just being an IP predator and making copies as quickly as they can.  Government coming in and taking their IP at a price the government sets is not only tyrannical but has a negative effect on the calculus for investing in innovation.<br />
2)    Leaving decisions to government will be a death sentence to many of the most expensive patients.  What was Tom Daschle&#8217;s point, that people need to start taking hard diagnoses better&#8211;to be more accepting of their fate?  That is not the way we want to reduce costs of medical care.<br />
3)    It is hard for an individual shopping for health insurance.  It is also hard for an employee in a company.  One doesn&#8217;t necessarily understand things like a lifetime cap, either because you have to many complex choices and decisions or because your employer doesn&#8217;t even give you the options&#8211;and you have no clue about costs over time.  Standardizing formats and options may help.  Education may help.  Adding bureaucrats doesn&#8217;t help.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57691</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57691</guid>
		<description>no problem. hopefully the thread will still be open later when i have a chance to comment at more length (i&#039;ll try to do some back ground reading too), but for now a just a quick comment on one small point.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I believe her point is that she couldn’t get approval on Medicare for Tykerb as an outpatient drug. If it was in the same price range of Avastin etc., there wouldn’t be a problem.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

from reading just a bit of Jeanne Sather’s blog, i don&#039;t think that&#039;s right. here&#039;s what i mean: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.assertivepatient.com/2008/08/medicare-tykerb.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;from Jeanne Sather’s blog&lt;/a&gt; showing, if i understand correctly, that medicare did cover  her tykerb (via part D, not part B) -- her problem &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;was not&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; that medicare deemed it medically unnecessary, rather her problem was with the cost of the copays and donut hole.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Tykerb only comes in pill form, however, which has been part of the problem with Medicare.

I have Medicare Parts A and B, which costs me about $100/month. I also have a supplemental policy through WSHIP, which is several hundred dollars more a month, and a prescription drug plan (Part D) that costs about $80/month.

As anyone who knows anything about Medicare will tell you, these prescription drug plans are not very good. There is the infamous &quot;doughnut hole,&quot; which requires you (me) to pay several thousand dollars out of pocket before coverage kicks in at a higher level.

In addition, my prescription drug plan, Medco, told me that the monthly copay on Tykerb is $1,600. Now, my income from Social Security Disability is only $1,100, minus my health insurance premiums, so this is not going to work.

But the big question I had, which no one seemed able to answer, is why a cancer treatment is not covered under Medicare Part B?

After all, the treatments I get by IV, Avastin and zometa, are covered by Part B and my supplemental plan. And other oral cancer drugs, namely cytoxan and xeloda, are covered completely by Part B and supplemental insurance.

So why not Tykerb?

Well, Dr. Lee, who I saw last week, had an answer. He said the reason oral cytoxan is covered by Medicare Part B is that there is also an IV version of the drug, which is more expensive to administer, because insurance is charged the costs of delivering the drug plus the actual cost of the meds. So Medicare covers the oral version also, which is cheaper, to encourage people to take the oral drug.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

more later.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no problem. hopefully the thread will still be open later when i have a chance to comment at more length (i&#8217;ll try to do some back ground reading too), but for now a just a quick comment on one small point.</p>
<blockquote><p>I believe her point is that she couldn’t get approval on Medicare for Tykerb as an outpatient drug. If it was in the same price range of Avastin etc., there wouldn’t be a problem.</p></blockquote>
<p>from reading just a bit of Jeanne Sather’s blog, i don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s right. here&#8217;s what i mean: <a href="http://www.assertivepatient.com/2008/08/medicare-tykerb.html" rel="nofollow">from Jeanne Sather’s blog</a> showing, if i understand correctly, that medicare did cover  her tykerb (via part D, not part B) &#8212; her problem <strong><em>was not</em></strong> that medicare deemed it medically unnecessary, rather her problem was with the cost of the copays and donut hole.</p>
<blockquote><p>Tykerb only comes in pill form, however, which has been part of the problem with Medicare.</p>
<p>I have Medicare Parts A and B, which costs me about $100/month. I also have a supplemental policy through WSHIP, which is several hundred dollars more a month, and a prescription drug plan (Part D) that costs about $80/month.</p>
<p>As anyone who knows anything about Medicare will tell you, these prescription drug plans are not very good. There is the infamous &#8220;doughnut hole,&#8221; which requires you (me) to pay several thousand dollars out of pocket before coverage kicks in at a higher level.</p>
<p>In addition, my prescription drug plan, Medco, told me that the monthly copay on Tykerb is $1,600. Now, my income from Social Security Disability is only $1,100, minus my health insurance premiums, so this is not going to work.</p>
<p>But the big question I had, which no one seemed able to answer, is why a cancer treatment is not covered under Medicare Part B?</p>
<p>After all, the treatments I get by IV, Avastin and zometa, are covered by Part B and my supplemental plan. And other oral cancer drugs, namely cytoxan and xeloda, are covered completely by Part B and supplemental insurance.</p>
<p>So why not Tykerb?</p>
<p>Well, Dr. Lee, who I saw last week, had an answer. He said the reason oral cytoxan is covered by Medicare Part B is that there is also an IV version of the drug, which is more expensive to administer, because insurance is charged the costs of delivering the drug plus the actual cost of the meds. So Medicare covers the oral version also, which is cheaper, to encourage people to take the oral drug.</p></blockquote>
<p>more later&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: RossK</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57555</link>
		<dc:creator>RossK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57555</guid>
		<description>
No argument there murphyj about the superiority of the system, including some of our provincial (read State&#039;s) programs where there is directed drug use to ensure that the most appropriate and cost-effective ones are being doled-out and paid-for.


The point I was making is that our Canuckistanian Universal system would be even better if we had controlled costs by not WILFULLY entering into a stupid extended patent protection program.


Why?


Because, now we have no leverage to bring down the costs of the blockbusters to reduce rationing (and make no mistake about it, we do have rationing on biologics because of the costs - which leads, for example, to women looking for a sympathetic oncologist who will go back to the pathologist in attempt to get that Her-2-stained section re-scored) and make the entire system more sustainable.


Which is why, in my opinion, Jane&#039;s point is such an important one.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No argument there murphyj about the superiority of the system, including some of our provincial (read State&#8217;s) programs where there is directed drug use to ensure that the most appropriate and cost-effective ones are being doled-out and paid-for.</p>
<p>The point I was making is that our Canuckistanian Universal system would be even better if we had controlled costs by not WILFULLY entering into a stupid extended patent protection program.</p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Because, now we have no leverage to bring down the costs of the blockbusters to reduce rationing (and make no mistake about it, we do have rationing on biologics because of the costs &#8211; which leads, for example, to women looking for a sympathetic oncologist who will go back to the pathologist in attempt to get that Her-2-stained section re-scored) and make the entire system more sustainable.</p>
<p>Which is why, in my opinion, Jane&#8217;s point is such an important one.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: OldFatGuy</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57544</link>
		<dc:creator>OldFatGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57544</guid>
		<description>No, you&#039;re right, it doesn&#039;t.  Whatever method we have of paying for it, the &quot;it&quot; still needs strong regulation and cost controls too.  Sorry I missed that comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, you&#8217;re right, it doesn&#8217;t.  Whatever method we have of paying for it, the &#8220;it&#8221; still needs strong regulation and cost controls too.  Sorry I missed that comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Hamsher</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57535</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Hamsher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57535</guid>
		<description>Apologies, I did not read the second part. But yes, I think you did say that people wouldn&#039;t have problems getting drugs with single payer, and my point is that if they are too expensive their use would be limited, even under single payer.  Just as they are in Medicare.

I believe her point is that she couldn&#039;t get approval on Medicare for Tykerb as an outpatient drug. If it was in the same price range of Avastin etc., there wouldn&#039;t be a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies, I did not read the second part. But yes, I think you did say that people wouldn&#8217;t have problems getting drugs with single payer, and my point is that if they are too expensive their use would be limited, even under single payer.  Just as they are in Medicare.</p>
<p>I believe her point is that she couldn&#8217;t get approval on Medicare for Tykerb as an outpatient drug. If it was in the same price range of Avastin etc., there wouldn&#8217;t be a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Hamsher</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57534</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Hamsher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57534</guid>
		<description>It was Mr. &quot;Peasants&quot; above who said it would solve them all.  It doesn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was Mr. &#8220;Peasants&#8221; above who said it would solve them all.  It doesn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: murphyj87</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57526</link>
		<dc:creator>murphyj87</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57526</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, Americans diagnosed and treated in the US are 40.8% more likely to die of that cancer than Canadians diagnosed and treated for cancer in Canada, according to the American Cancer Society and the Canadian Cancer Society. Rationing of drugs and medical care in the US is responsible for that. Since so many Americans can&#039;t afford to see a physicians often as they should, and Canadians have universal access to a physician, Canadians are diagnosed far earlier and can be treated while cancers are much smaller and easier and cheaper to treat. Health care and drug rationing in the US kills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, Americans diagnosed and treated in the US are 40.8% more likely to die of that cancer than Canadians diagnosed and treated for cancer in Canada, according to the American Cancer Society and the Canadian Cancer Society. Rationing of drugs and medical care in the US is responsible for that. Since so many Americans can&#8217;t afford to see a physicians often as they should, and Canadians have universal access to a physician, Canadians are diagnosed far earlier and can be treated while cancers are much smaller and easier and cheaper to treat. Health care and drug rationing in the US kills.</p>
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		<title>By: murphyj87</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57525</link>
		<dc:creator>murphyj87</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57525</guid>
		<description>There is no rationing in Canada. There IS rationing for profit of both health care and pharmacuticals in the US. Both are rationed by profit margins in the US. Money and affordablilty are the rationing factors in the American profit driven system. Canadians have better access to both health care and pharmaceuticals than most Americans have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no rationing in Canada. There IS rationing for profit of both health care and pharmacuticals in the US. Both are rationed by profit margins in the US. Money and affordablilty are the rationing factors in the American profit driven system. Canadians have better access to both health care and pharmaceuticals than most Americans have.</p>
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		<title>By: murphyj87</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57520</link>
		<dc:creator>murphyj87</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57520</guid>
		<description>When Big Pharma lobbied the Canadian federal government for longer patents to keep generic drugs off the market for longer, the federal government gave them their longer patents.....in exchange for price controls.

That is why precription drugs in Canada cost about 40% of what exactly the same drugs cost in the US. Our government acts for the good of Canadians, whereas your government apparently does not act for the good of Americans.

Canada has had a universal single payer health care system for 47 years which is far superior for the average Canadian than the US insurance-run health care system is for Americans. It is beyond me that Americans would stand for insurance company bureaucrats standing between them and their physicians, rationing their health care for profit. In Canada, government pays for our health care at arm&#039;s length, leaving only us and our physicians to make our medical decisions. It is in the US that you have a bureaucrat, an insurance company bureaucrat making your medical decisions for you. Canadians would never tolerate having any inteference with our medical decisions by anyone other than our physicians and us. 

It is clear that the US &quot;for profit&quot; insurance-run health care system and the US &quot;for profit&quot; pharmaceutical-run drug system are both killers and not made to be beneficial for the American people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Big Pharma lobbied the Canadian federal government for longer patents to keep generic drugs off the market for longer, the federal government gave them their longer patents&#8230;..in exchange for price controls.</p>
<p>That is why precription drugs in Canada cost about 40% of what exactly the same drugs cost in the US. Our government acts for the good of Canadians, whereas your government apparently does not act for the good of Americans.</p>
<p>Canada has had a universal single payer health care system for 47 years which is far superior for the average Canadian than the US insurance-run health care system is for Americans. It is beyond me that Americans would stand for insurance company bureaucrats standing between them and their physicians, rationing their health care for profit. In Canada, government pays for our health care at arm&#8217;s length, leaving only us and our physicians to make our medical decisions. It is in the US that you have a bureaucrat, an insurance company bureaucrat making your medical decisions for you. Canadians would never tolerate having any inteference with our medical decisions by anyone other than our physicians and us. </p>
<p>It is clear that the US &#8220;for profit&#8221; insurance-run health care system and the US &#8220;for profit&#8221; pharmaceutical-run drug system are both killers and not made to be beneficial for the American people.</p>
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		<title>By: murphyj87</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/29/house-health-care-bill-a-death-sentence-for-my-fellow-breast-cancer-survivors/#comment-57519</link>
		<dc:creator>murphyj87</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3924#comment-57519</guid>
		<description>There was a gene discovered last week in Vancouver BC that seems to point toward the potential for a vaccine for breast cancer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a gene discovered last week in Vancouver BC that seems to point toward the potential for a vaccine for breast cancer.</p>
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