there is no way this could have happened without dem party leadership complicity. once again, as it was with the fisa fight, the dem party leadership betray their public constituency in favor of their corporate constituency and then blame the blue dogs in order to shield themselves from accountability.

…

the medicare rates +5 was never a robust po, it was weak and severely limited. even if the cms assumed and projected cost numbers were correct, it would have applied only to a very small segment of the population.

It would also have provided families with an option roughly 10-11% cheaper than the typical private health insurance plan. That would be roughly a $1,400 a year reduction in premiums for the average family.

if someone were to read this statement and think it applied to all or most families, they would be misinformed. the average american family would not have seen those cost savings, only a very few families would have.

the cost savings only would have applied to those eligible to use the exchange and, if i understand correctly, to none of the families who qualify for the subsidies.

the critical feature of the medicare+5 rates was not the money saved by a relatively few families (and none of them low income), it was that without it the po has no chance to compete against private insurance on cost without engaging in the private insurance model of cost competition via denial of care/coverage. adverse selection will not be overcome by risk adjustment, even with the numbers the cms assumed.

this isn’t a weakened po, this is a dead po.

Go watch Ned Beatty’s monologue near the end of the film, Network. I think you’ll get the idea how the fix was in from get go.

the critical feature of the medicare+5 rates was not the money saved by a relatively few families (and none of them low income), it was that without it the po has no chance to compete against private insurance on cost without engaging in the private insurance model of cost competition via denial of care/coverage. adverse selection will not be overcome by risk adjustment, even with the numbers the cms assumed.

this isn’t a weakened po, this is a dead po.

Exactly!

The PO perhaps stood a chance against the adverse selection that it will suffer, if it had the lower costs of medicare. But that leverage appears to be gone. And it’s gone only with the help of the White House and Democratic leaders in Congress.

And people were expecting that the House version would be the most progressive with a robust public option? Is this a great system or what? The current system is far too corrupt and ossified to ever see any meaningful, transformational legislation that benefits “average” Americans. It’s all about protecting entrenched interests and then promoting it as a victory for the American people. It’s all farce amounting to nothing but more of the same.

Now the battle REALLY begins! Check out “Healthcare Fighting (Kung Fu Mix)” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nc1VwJOb9Y

LBJ would not only have twisted arms he would have broken arms. Obama never twisted arms unless it was to placate Blue Dogs, in the spirit of bipartisanship of course.

i had my doubts about viabiliy before (didn’t think it was, but suppose there might have been a sliver of a chance for the po to be a refuge from private insurance abuse for the seriously ill.)

now even that is off the table.

i have i mentioned how much i despise the democratic party leadership today?

So the rates will be set through negotiation. The CEO’s of the insurance companies must be estatic.

to motivate and inspire people honestly, we have to have something worth fighting for. something that will provide universal healthCARE and control costs.

that something is hr 676. single payer. expanded and improved medicare for all. everyone pays in a bit with taxes, total costs about the same that we as a nation are currently spending. and we get comprehensive universal healthcare for all:

everybody in, nobody out.
no premiums, no deductibles, no copays, no coinsurance.
doctors and hospitals compete for our business.

This is great news…

for the private health insurance industry, hospitals, and PhRMA, that is.

The ironic joke is even more elaborate than you might think:

I’m expecting an email from the DCCC today telling me that the Republicans are to blame for killing the robust public option.

Pretty funny. Thanks. I like Dodd as the fat panda bear. Nice to have a little yuk in between all the Joe Lies images. Blech. Joe’s ruining my morning. Again. Somebody was suckered.

Good Morning, Selise.
You can’t say it enough.

Our corrupt, concupescent congresscritters are too clever by half. Who do they think will work the phones, get out the votes and walk the neighborhoods in the coming elections? May they rot in Hell. Amen.

OK so the system doesn’t work. Hasn’t in some time. What to do?

We need to organize the grass roots down to the last blade of grass and it must be done in a way that is not confrontational. Most people think the system works. They get a good deal of their self image from “I am an American”. They will not take kindly to anyone saying this is not the best of all possible countries. They will say “Go back to Russia or where ever”.

We need to organize town by town and we need to attract people with local, not national, concerns. That comes later. It is an enormous and expensive undertaking, but it is the only alternative to more of the same.

Its time to just let this bill die. It is so bad and watered down that it is going to do more harm than good, especially when the final bill has mandates and some kind of lipstick PO, most likely triggers. Pelosi is now showing her true colors by butchering the House bill. Supporting a bill that makes insurance companies richer at our expense without any real benefit to the American people is irresponsible on our part. Passing this bill is not going to save people from death by spreadsheet or any of the other systemic problems in the medical/industrial complex. Let Lie-berman kill the bill and let the Dems hang at the polls. Its what we keep threatening them with anyway. Like it makes a difference which party is in control the results are the same. Maybe by letting the Dems go down in flames will finally send a message to the Dem leadership that they are not immune to the consequences of their actions. Pelosi and Hoyer and Reid may not lose their seats but if they lose thier majorities and thier power is diminished, they may wake up and start serving the people they were elected to represent.

Grass roots organizing is the way to go but given where the U.S. finds itself economically, politically and socially the “system” will likely collapse under the weight of it’s own corruption and internal contradictions. An organized movement can then offer an alternative to the American people otherwise fascism will prevail.

We can either fund numerous wars and other immoral acts of transgression around the world and bail out the greedy incompetent corporations Or we can take care of each other. Not both. How to educate the American Public on this reality? What kind of grassroots campaign can accomplish that. The public wants to remain ignorant. I’m gloomy this morning. Can you tell?

Clever!

good morning demi. if healthcare is a human right, and i believe it is, then imo we have to advocate/organize/agitate for have a policy to match. something that doesn’t leave millions without access to insurance and millions more without adequate access to healthcare. short term compromises for significant improvement may sometimes make sense, but this is a struggle that goes way beyond this years legislative actions.

Yep. It’s all got to fail first. Let it crumble, burn and smolder and then offer an alternative. It’s not that I want a lot of folks to suffer, but they will not look at the alternative until they have to. I’m pretty sure, though I don’t really know. That’s the way I’m leaning.

As people fall through the cracks losing their jobs, homes, insurance etc. will they become a political voice or be silenced?

are there no organizing efforts in your home town? there’s tons of stuff here. the problem is that most people don’t get seriously involved unless they are inspired in some significant way or are affected personally. maybe a movement for universal comprehensive healthcare can do both.

The bigger battle at this point is labeling(and making it stick) that Blue Dogs are nothing but corporate sellouts. I’d have used whores, but I am not sure that is entirely accurate.

I agree.

Obama lost when he changed the phrase from health care reform to health insurance reform.

Right ee oh. And, if you consider that those folks without adequate access are in less of a position to fight for it — ie. homeless, underemployed, let’s call them the lost, the loney and the wretched — than it’s their representatives, elected or otherwise, folks in better circumstances who have to advocate for what’s moral and correct.

A big problem to health reform lies in the eye of the beholder. One can not get any current news on health care in one given day that resembles any similarity. There is so much misinformation from senators, representative and pundits, I wonder they don’t get themselves confused. Bottom line, the average American does not, will not or can not know what is really best for him based on the information he/she can retrieve from public sources; thus, the White House and Dems will go along with the powerful Ins/Pharma CEOs because they have the upper hand with organizing misinformation and use their money/power accordingly to influence. In the end, if is isn’t about personal money rewards,it is about getting re-elected AND Congress will vote for the least powerful piece of legislation which will hurt the insurance and drug companies the least.

I completely agree. It’s time to stop this next bailout to the insurance monopolies. that’s all this is; has become.
I’ve got to wonder what Obama has really been doing while we were watching this dog and pony show? He sure hasn’t been working for us.
Let us now urge our progressives “friends” in the legislature to vote against this as they promised Jane.

Obama was right on one thing; he WILL be the last presidente1 to try for “healthcare reform” because if this abortion passes,We’ll NEVER get another chance at it, anymore than we have a chance to get back all the trillions we were robbed of in the bank bailouts.

We’ve been double-crossed, my friends,thsi time with “hope”

I agree, everyone is running around yelling about what “the American people want” and I guaran-fucking-tee you most people haven’t a clue about all the nuances of this and that approach.

Sadly true. There was an opportunity with Obama’s election but he dropped the ball in promoting transformational change in health care and financial reform. It appears he felt that those responsible for the failure of health care and the financial sector in America had as much right, if not more, to sit at the table to fix the problems they created as the average Jane or John Doe. It would be like inviting organized crime to sit at the table to craft anti-crime legislation.

None of the bills under consideration are truly UNIVERSAL. They leave lots of people uninsured/uncovered. We need single payer, Medicare for all. Period.

So here is the note I sent to Pelosi and my Rep.

Dear Madame Speaker,

Please note that I have been a strong supporter of Democrats throughout my life. I have donated as much as I can afford, I have worked for Democratic candidates and I have always voted with the party.

Please note that this will end now unless the House actually passes a bill with a robust public option. A public option with negotiated rates and limited enrollment is not a robust public option whatever you choose to call it.

I will urge my representative to vote no on any bill that does not include a robust public option and that includes the bill you will be submitting and, I will work to primary ANY democrat who votes for it.

I have long had my doubts about the game that has been played out around health care. The bill which you are reportedly submitting confirms those doubts.

You say you can’t muster enough votes. Make it clear. Anyone who does not back a REAL public option is out in the cold. No leadership role. No DSCC money. No power.

See if you can’t turn up the votes then. But perhaps you only like to talk about wanting a good bill as contrasted with getting a good bill.

if you consider that those folks without adequate access are in less of a position to fight for it — ie. homeless, underemployed, let’s call them the lost, the loney and the wretched — than it’s their representatives, elected or otherwise, folks in better circumstances who have to advocate for what’s moral and correct.

amen.

twolf1 – you have mail

Mornin’ All

I second that.

As we know, even with our “comprehensive” Cigna employer private plan, a 2-hour visit to urgent care for a CTscan and checkout cost a $75 co-pay.

For us this is not a finance killer, but it’s not easy and, a lot higher than it used to be, and some households would have to scrape for this.

The other shoe hasn’t dropped yet. After congress finishes shifting around to find the bell curve, then they’ll proceed on to the steps to get it through.

Those steps are called “earmarks”; and you can bet all those riders and ammendments are coming.

One can not get any current news on health care in one given day that resembles any similarity. There is so much misinformation from senators, representative and pundits,

yes. the more complicated and difficult to follow the “reform,” the more the process will favor the corporate lobbyists. in this case simplicity favors the public.

Obama knows this compromise is immoral…to compromise with Satan means your soul is lost without redemption.

You miss the point. It’s not about health care. It’s about getting organized. We won’t get organized on a local level talking about national issues.

Jon or anyone else do you know what role Congressman Zack Space (Oh) or Congressman Wilson (Oh) played in the yellow/blue dogs played in weakening the public option? I am in Charlie Wilson’s district, he road into office on the coat tails of our Former congressman (now Governor) Strickland. Many of us are not happy with Wilson and there is a fair amount of talk about putting up a contender.

What role Space played in undermining a robust public option will make a difference in how many folks in the Athens Ohio region will volunteer for Space or donate $$$

Maybe we should all go into the opium trade like Karzai’s brother? That seems to garner more respect from these monsters who pretend to be our representatives.

What time will Nancy be speaking?

Nevermind. 10:30.

There is no way this could have happened without Democratic Party leadership complicity. Once again, as it was with the FISA fight, the Democratic Party leadership betray their public constituency in favor of their corporate constituency and then blame the Blue Dogs in order to shield themselves from accountability.

Amen.

And… The House “Progressive Caucus” and their unquestioned ability to stop this latest unnecessary citizen-harming, taxpayer-shafting, wholly-undeserved corporate gift, instead quietly crumples up and blows away, like the good little Party hacks, at heart, Rahm Emanuel counted on them being for his latest successful sucker play…

Interesting how events have unfolded since last Thursday’s private luncheon between Speaker Pelosi and President Obama.

Tea Party!!!

You may be right, but I’m not ready to give up. It’s true our present situation differs from the thirties in that in the thirties we were the world’s largest creditor nation, like China is today. We are the largest debtor nation. Getting around that won’t be easy.

As for organizing the grass roots, it must be through the internet. We need a local topic common to all communities. I think putting town check books on line will do it. So might teacher’s salaries-per pupil school costs or police coverage or all of them. Someone must create the sites which must be linked. Same template for all communities. Should do it in time for the 2012 election. Things might come apart, but let’s not say die until we’re dead.

The Blue Dogs fought hard . . .

uh no. there is zero proof out there that they did anything but whine to their patron Hoyer. they didn’t canvas, didn’t whip, sidestepped outreach to any identifiable constituency, most of them eschewed the Goons of August that they brought on.

unlike the contortions Grijalva and Woolsey endured at the behest of Leadership

nope. with nary a thought to the 15,744 Americans who died for lack of access to care since we began our efforts, these WATB’s did nothing more than whine and threaten to hold their breath

BRAVO!! while I am pouring out my disappointment with Obama,Reid,etc you come up what the important point is. OH!! your thoughts and of course those dying today because they could not get the health care that is available if only they were not 21-65 and do not have access to the coverage that the fat Democrats and Republicans in Congress have.

does anybody have a sense on WHO can get the PO in the House bill? Is it going to be restricted the same way the Senate bill is to those who are unemployed or in small businesses?

You can be sure our MSM will cover the tea party event ad nauseum. Keep thinking that pro health care reform folks who have rallied in D.C. or anywhere else across the nation should either hold their rallies in Iran so that they will get 24/7 coverage or be packing (fake) weapons so that the cameras show up.

One of the days this past summer that there was a large pro health care reform rally in D.C. Chris Matthews, RAchel, Faux covered the OBama beer summit all day and night.

when i asked you about organizing locally, i meant about local issues. my comments re local organizing were with regard to local issues.

OK, Blue Dogs Win Huge Victory…. Wrong headline.

Didn’t we have xxx number of progressives committed to BLOCKING any bill without a robust PO?

Therefore, if this passes, it’s not so much the Blue Dogs win as the Progressives Give In again.

I, for one, and done with it.

Third Party time.

And spend all time and resources to KILL THE BILL and start over next year.

And, for this, the WH thinks the base will be all ginned up and ready to turn out the vote in 2010????

I wont be there in 2010 (or thereafter) if this is the best they do. What the hell happened to yes, we can. This is not change I believe in … not by a long shot.

Dont be surprised, WH, when the tides shift right out from under you in 2010. Think things are tough now???

I am disgusted.

Interesting how events have unfolded since last Thursday’s private luncheon between Speaker Pelosi and President Obama.

i would love to have a recording, or even a transcript, of that meeting.

….

hey! maybe cspan was there? president obama said the meetings would be on cspan. transparency and open government was the campaign pledge. /snark

ekunin, you might be interested in my “PIC Pledge” proposal for Congressional reform, as outlined in my current Seminal diary here.

With the internet available to us, and given the increasingly-harmful impact federal policies now have at every level of American life, I disagree with your premise that we are unable to organize locally (meaning at the level of federal House districts) around national issues. Though, as you rightly indicate, those issues have to be limited and defined, and nationally-uniform to make an impact, which is what my “PIC Pledge” suggestion is about. We need to start thinking outside the Party box, even while using the existing Two Party Structure to help bring it down.

They just don’t understand what they are doing. Any one that vote against it is now a target for the people that have died and their friends and family. It is murder that they have committed. Their constituents will put them in the right place.
If you believe this country has anything for you any more, time to think again.

Agreed. If you haven’t seen it yet, I recommend this article from Brian Beutler over at TPM.

Imagine what would have happened if Dem leadership actually believed in the health care reform they sold the public on the campaign trail. Imagine if they fought for it.

The other day, Robert Gibbs said that he was unaware of the President making any phone calls on behalf of the p.o. If Grijalva was right the House was around 3-7 votes shy of the Medicare +5%. If the President or Pelosi couldn’t get those votes it was because they didn’t try.

And I agree selise, until the p.o. is available to EVERYONE, including those who have – and DON’T like our – insurance, then the p.o. will never be strong enough to properly compete with private insurance and we will not get the costs down. This is a huge failure.

What a waste of a real electoral mandate.

howdy sellse. we have such similar names, people have been getting confused so i just wanted to point out the difference between sel-i-se and sel-l-se.

oh, and that i suck at using the shift key. that should be a clue.

Only this time, thanks to FDL I was able to email everyone yesterday and let them know where Scott Murphy stood for our district, NY-20. His betrayal costs him my vote for his congressional seat. It will cost his uninsured constituents more money when they go to buy into the public plan now that the rates are ‘negotiated’. In addition, all of those complacent insureds can know that their rates will now stay high, now that there won’t be a lower public plan to compete with their private plans. “So long its been good to know yuh, this dusty old dust is a gettin my home, and I got to be movin along.” Woody Guthrie, 1940.

Patiently waiting to see how this is covered at Kos. They recently had a highly recommended diary up trashing this site. And over the past week have had quite a few recommended diaries attacking critics of the administration as a whole. Sure they’ll manage to blame the safe Democrats, Reid, Lieberman, and Pelosi, while minimizing or ignoring the role the WH has had, or hasn’t, in this.

Interesting how events have unfolded since last Thursday’s private luncheon between Speaker Pelosi and President Obama.

I wonder if she wore a blue dress.

bingo

thanks for the link. i’ll read it after making some more coffee. guess it’s clear that the dems weren’t really interested in healthcare reform. siphoning more $$$ via economic parasitism to the FIRE sector, now that’s a policy goal the dems can get behind.

i actually don’t think the po would ever do much to get costs down via competition. but the pos has to have a cost differential if it is not going to play the same games as private insurance to deny care/coverage. it gives the po a higher cost basis (paying for healthcare has a cost), that needs to be offset with cost savings elsewhere. and if the po could have been a refuge from private insurance company abuse that would have been a good thing and should have been available to everyone.

Yes, as through this world I’ve wandered
I’ve seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.

http://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Pretty_Boy_Floyd.htm

ouch!

Doggett is the only one from CPC I can identify in that crowd – anyone else ?

BooHoo Dem. voters! If voters are not serious why should they be taken seriously? When will you understand, there is only one way to win this fight: Convince elected Dems their vote on HealthCare will determine the future of the Democratic Party. There is NOTHING Congress has done in twenty years to support a contention that it listens to or cares about its sheep. There”s only one response, send a million signatures to Washington attesting:

“The HealthCare vote is about more than politics, it’s about how America works and who it works for. If this Democratic Congress doesn’t understand this simple truth, and refuses to pass a STRONG Healthcare Bill with a STRONG public option, I will NEVER vote for another Democrat at any level for any office again.”

It’s that simple and it should be obvious to all by now – nothing else will work.

Nice to meet you selise! Its a sad day today … I hope the progressives get things back on track.

I think the p.o. could have been a transitional mechanism that could have created the space for us to move towards a single payer system without throwing a switch on 1/6th of our economy.

I thought that was its advantage, if it was crafted properly. And that was why I supported it as the compromise between our current system and single payer. Instead there is no compromise. It’s just another massive transfer of wealth from individual citizens to corporate welfare courtesy of the corporations’ elected officials.

Lets go serfing now, everybody’s learning how… ; ) Too bad I don’t know how to do musical notes like Loo Hoo ; )

In response to sellse @ 66

I hope the progressives get things back on track.

Maybe knocking it off track is the best way to go at this point.

What would happen if Republicans get their way? The health care system would collapse. Just make sure the collapse is tightly wrapped around the necks of Republicans and Blue Dogs.

Maybe that the best way to get single-payer.

Couldn’t help myself, I’m a wee bit grumpy this morning ; )

I read your proposal. Don’t agree. Also believe house districts are way too large. Even towns (my town has a population of around 75000) is a pretty big chunk.

No, we don’t have much organizing going on regarding local issues. We have lots of groups doing this or that, but that’s not what I mean. It has to be on the internet and it starts by being informational rather than about change or doing anything. Exactly how we organize a site to encourage interaction amongst everyone-not just liberals talking to liberals and conservatives talking to conservatives although we like the positive feedback of being with people who agree with us-remains to be seen. I haven’t got all the answers-a case can be made that I don’t have any answers, but it’s something we need to talk about. Many heads are better than one. How we organize to talk about where we should go, is a good start.

Where are the public populist demands?

Where are the work stoppages, the protests?

Millions of disgruntled people marching in the streets would even now show the cocksuckers the light, but no, Americans unfortunately are losers.

Yes, selise, you have it right as usual. Progressives must say no to this bill.

Organizing at the local level is certainly the most practical step to take and with the clear objective of pursuing one winnable issue at a time. Since health care is at the forefront and where the outcome can still be influenced, this should be immediate issue to work on.

Petitioning the local representative is the first task using both electoral and financial methods of pursuation. Also petitioning Obama in no uncertain terms that he is now targeted for replacement in a primary because of his lack of conviction should also be undertaken.

Translating the current outrage into action is the next item on the agenda and with a firm conviction that we will have an impact. It is time for strategizing and acting.

That’s a good idea. Constantly pointing out how much the high price of healthcare is costing your town or county or state. Also encourage people to look into how much is sailing out of your paycheck and is costing the company you work for. Basically, just a big, easy to use and input data base.

Americans have gotten fat (apparently literally). We are disinclined to protest primarily because we don’t know where anyone stands. Bad to have a general strike where you are the only one showing up. Even in such activist circles as FDL when the writers went on strike I suggested we not go to the movies. Be a neat demonstration if millions carried it off, but I got no takers. We can do things short of pitchforks, but motivation is the problem.

My Congressperson is Jim Himes a former Goldman Sachs. He ran as an anti-war candidate but since he’s been elected I don’t think he voted against any war appropriation. Don’t think a pledge would make a difference. We need a means for the people’s voice to be heard loud and clear. Something to make incumbents tremble. Don’t think blog comments do it.

I think there will LOTS of angry Americans when they realize they have been left of this so called reform

Woolsey and others to meed today.
I do not expect much from Obama who has been weak in his standing up for a robust option (after he kicked single payers under the table).

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare29-2009oct29,0,7602363.story

House health compromise has ‘public option’ with a catch

The new bill would require the government to negotiate healthcare costs with providers rather than set the rates itself. Liberals hope it will get conservative Democrats on board.

By Noam N. Levey and Janet Hook

October 29, 2009

Reporting from Washington – Paving the way for a crucial vote on healthcare legislation in the next two weeks, House Democratic leaders plan to unveil a compromise bill today that would create a nationwide government-run insurance plan but omit what many liberals consider the key to cost control.

According to senior lawmakers and aides, the so-called public option in the new compromise would not dictate what the plan can pay hospitals, doctors and other providers. Instead, the federal government would have to negotiate rates with providers, much as private insurers do.

………….And Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Petaluma), a leader of the influential Congressional Progressive Caucus, refused to throw in the towel.

“It’s not even the fourth quarter,” she said. “We will be insisting on it being as strong as it possibly can be.”

Woolsey and other liberal congressional leaders are to meet with President Obama today.

“He needs to hear from us that he needs to support the public option,” she said. “He’s not saying it loud enough. We want to make sure he lets the Senate know he wants a public option in the bill.”

I think we need to go back to Jane’s strategy of going after the progressives to say no to this bill. If they combine with Republicans to defeat it, there will be no bill at all. The blue dogs and the President will be in a panic. The political dynamic will be changed. Rahm will have to lean on the blue dogs because he will no he can’t count on progressive votes. This is a matter of establishing credibility for the progressives. Right now, they have no credibility so they have little influence. If they want to have any in the future, they have to vote “no” now.

See “The Progressive Power of “No”,” written way back on September 8th.

Oh, yes. I’m really happy to see the outrage at the actual inadequacy of the legislation for a change rather than Joe Lieberman whose 60th vote we don’t need anyway.

OK. What so many of us suspected would happen has come to pass. We demanded something concrete and got window dressing. I like Ekunin’s idea of a large and accessible database to graphically depict how the nation will be taking it in the wallet at all levels. Perhaps this could be attached as a part of FDL? No? Yes?
But I also think that an important move RIGHT NOW and going forward is to pound home to the population over and over why this will fail. We need to lodge the idea of “BIG FUCK UP” in the minds of the people SO that a bell will ring in their Pavlovian heads at that point when this roadkill PO starts to disintegrate operationally. We also need to stick to a consistent theme and catch-term, RIGHT NOW, so that down the road, when it is obvious to everyone that the FUCK- UP is unsustainable, the remedy of MEDICARE FOR ALL is the next bell that rings in their heads.
So 1. This plan will not contain costs. Expect premiums to you, your employer, and everyone will continue to skyrocket.
2. millions will still be uncovered by insurance
3. The cartel will continue to steal hundreds of billions from healthcare and the wider economy and use it to buy YOUR politician.
4. Let’s call it MEDICARE FOR ALL and hammer away

Finally, show our support, mightily for those pols who speak the truth and attack with a holy vengeance, relentlessly, those who are puppets of the cartel.
Perversely, the good news is that this PO thing isn’t going to work and THE PROBLEM IS NOT GOING AWAY. We will gain strength from the stubborness of facts. As my pop used to say, “stick around for the next act.”

You again lets? My post on 80 presumed that some variant of what came out today will be the final deal. I am conditioned to think of Prog legislators as bandy-legged weaklings who exhaust easily and will be all too happy to call this negotiatied rate PO farce good and move on. But of course if they can be buttressed and persuaded to say NO then good. There is nothing to be lost playing hardball here.

The politicians fucked us yet again so they could get some more pieces of silver from their corporate overlords? Shocking.

Thanks GDC707

If only…

I can’t believe the minority of our elected Democrats are going to stop us from doing the best option that was left. The majority of people in this country want it, even in conservative states in which these people represent. The majority held hostage by the minority. What a Democracy we have here, huh?

The bill gets more conservative by the minute, even when the Democrats hold the super majority. So let’s parse this a bit, what are the problems?

First and foremost….money in politics. As long as large corporations are allowed to buy votes, real reform will never take place. So we would all be better off fighting for this, before we can start to expect anything that is really “change”.

Remember when Howard Dean took over the DNC. What was the major case in which he used to describe many of the Democrats failures? Simply put, the Dems were acting like Republicans (Republican-light). This centrist attitude is what caused us to lose the majority in the first place. And now, yet again, the Dems are repeating this mistake. What’s the point of having a super majority, if you don’t use it?

A great opportunity wasted. This time around, I forgot to expect the worse and hope for the best, instead of the other way around. It was the whole infectious “change” moto. Boy was I duped.

I commend the progressives in the party, for fighting as hard as they could. The Blue Dogs should be ashamed, and each one should be removed; and I will work to make that happen.

At this point, I prefer that the progressives congress men and women vote NO for this bill. Without a robust public option, it has very little value. Sometimes you have to punish your own party, to push them to do the right thing and to push them to the liberal majority.

no one is gonna bother to question why this is good news for health insurance providers, huh? Just going to assume that the “Blue Dogs” are on the take from their “corporate overlords” without actually stopping to think? Why would the government paying higher rates to healthcare providers help private insurers? If anything, it increases the attractiveness of the public option when a provider is deciding which plans to accept.

Have you ever asked yourselves why the cost of health insurance is going up? Here are the reasons from most potent influence to least potent:

1. Decrease in Medicare & Medicaid reimbursements to doctors and hospitals must be compensated by charging higher rates to the paying public
2. Third Party payer problem – where recipient of health services are removed from paying for the services due to low deductibles and they graze the fields until there is only dirt left, groups like large union plans that strong arm insurance companies to a lower cost for which we all are paying.
3. Liability insurance cost – where doctors and hospitals must cover their asses not to get sued
4. Uninsured and illegal aliens free medical service costs are put on the paying public
5. Longer life span and new (expensive) drugs that beloved give-me generation entitled to
6. Growth of medical service use exceeds growth of doctors and hospitals

I can see why we need death panels and why we do not need more government in healthcare which is the main cause of the rise of the cost and which represents the majority of healthcare spending already.

How is the public option addresses any of these above except rationing care, so people die quicker (Granma taking a pain pill instead of expensive procedure as suggested by the President)?

Do you really think the cost is rising because insurance companies with 3% profit margins pay high executive salaries? Insurance companies only contribute to the #2 & #4 causes above and none of the others.

HSA accounts are self limiting market solution in my choice beats government rationing that is for sure to come!

Ouch, I forgot!

7. Government regulations and mandates

We probably should move this in to the third position :)