Comments on: Obama And Reid May Be Leaning Toward Opt-Out

By: mercury

mercury — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:02:35 +0000

I’d rather not see an opt-out, myself. But I’m going to re-ask a question I asked in an earlier opt-out thread:

How many states opted out of taking stimulus money?

By: marcos

marcos — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:02:09 +0000

So either you get health care or nobody does?

And what’s this all about solidarity? If we support opt-out we’re not standing in solidarity with you, but if you oppose opt-out, you’re not standing in solidarity with us. Solidarity means sacrificing now so that others might win, not having others sacrifice so that we all might win one day down the road.

By: PriscillaQOB

PriscillaQOB — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:23:45 +0000

Um, I DID organize and helped Obama win Florida last year. So what’s your point? I have a Republican governor running for Senate, a Blue Dog Democrat Senator, a completely GOP controlled state legislature that has gerrymandered the state to the point of perpetual hegemony and Rep. Grayson here. Like I said, if there is an opt-out Florida probably will since the state is near bankrupt and totally wingnut controlled so I guess I get to die since I’m not from a Blue state, huh?

By: marcos

marcos — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:50:01 +0000

Now is the time for you folks in red states to organize like we’ve organized to make your voice heard. I’ve done that in Texas, don’t tell me you can’t in your red state.

By: PriscillaQOB

PriscillaQOB — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:41:55 +0000

Since I am suffering from a heart condition in a red state and can’t afford medical care (or moving to a blue state with a “more rational electorate”) with my lousy job-provided insurance I guess I can just die and get out of the way of progressive politics. Thanks for the support and solidarity! Nice to know that some progressives are more equal than others, from a purely pragmatic, political perspective at least.

By: sherifffruitfly

sherifffruitfly — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:33:09 +0000

Bad policy: allowing the worst state electorates in America hold the rest of the country back.

There is no one to bitch at about this except your state’s own electorate. If you want help, I’ll be happy to lend a hand. If you just want to complain about people in states with more rational electorates, then you’re part of the problem.

By: marcos

marcos — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:28:09 +0000

You can’t play politics with this.

We’ve been held back by red states for 30 years now, and that has to end now. 20 years ago after I graduated, I got in my truck and headed, sight unseen, like so many before me, west to California from Texas and have never looked back.

If it is possible to get immediate coverage for more than one half of Americans who live in states which don’t opt out, then that has to stand for something. If nothing passes, then the red staters will still be without coverage.

Since we believe in our policies and know that they will come close to producing the desired results, then we should feel confident that the example of Medicare, Part E set by the states which did not opt out will prove so attractive that the red states will have no option but to opt back in.

That movement will be led by the local business communities, because once insurers are competed out of states with Medicare, Part E, they will turn to the “mandate to private insurance” states for more of their profits, sending the cost of private insurance further through the roof.

Medicare, Part E is a financing option, covered either by individual premiums or public subsidy just like private insurance is a financing option which would be compulsory and paid for by individual premiums or a public subsidy. Unemployment insurance requires the states to contribute money. The distinction is there and when faced with the choice, that might make a difference.

What’s going to cover more people faster, more incremental bites at the apple or a more ambitious opt-out approach?

By: nightheat

nightheat — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:17:40 +0000

Yeah great politics for Dems. But while I’m here in Northern VA, I can’t get the P.O. because of the nazi’s running this state? Heck, they even turned away stimulus funds to extend unemployment benefits. Ridiculous.

You can’t play politics with this.

By: marcos

marcos — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:07:15 +0000

It ain’t over yet, this is one more data point in a straight line from crappy policies, baucus, coops, state coops, exchanges, towards more progressive incarbations, and if the past is any indication, there will be further, likely more progressive, iterations.

So long as we’re pointed in the right direction and continue moving in it, that is evidence that we are doing our job and the majority of Americans are being heard.

Opt-out of Medicare for All would make an acceptable fallback position as far as I am concerned. The political forces it would unleash would portend a potential grand political realignment. But now that they’ve put opt-out on the table for real, it is time to up the ante on them again, this time for enhanced robustness and availability to all, as Obama appears willing to play that game ad infinitum.

By: sherifffruitfly

sherifffruitfly — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:54:10 +0000

So the baseline for worst-case bill has been raised. This is good.

Quite obviously we expect Obama to sign something significantly better. But improving the worst-case is always good, since it thereby improves the *expected* result.

Too many people treat such things as though “that’s the end of it” – we saw it with the Baucus failbill. Note that *that* abomination is now gone.

Baby steps, people.