Comments on: The Washington Post Makes False Claims About Their Own Poll http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/ Politics for liberal newsgeeks Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:33:20 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: robspierre http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55163 robspierre Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:17:47 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55163 This is part of the plan that our party leasdership has been following: bait-and-switch. Note the accompanying post on Wyden's Free Choice amendment. In public, the party talks up our supposed ability to change to the public plan if we dislike our employers' plans. But in private, when talking to the lobbyists over a single-malt, we can't choose and probably never will be able to choose. Even if we get a so-called "public option," it is looking very much like it will not be the one we asked for. This is part of the plan that our party leasdership has been following: bait-and-switch. Note the accompanying post on Wyden’s Free Choice amendment. In public, the party talks up our supposed ability to change to the public plan if we dislike our employers’ plans. But in private, when talking to the lobbyists over a single-malt, we can’t choose and probably never will be able to choose.

Even if we get a so-called “public option,” it is looking very much like it will not be the one we asked for.

]]> By: gamd521 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55158 gamd521 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:16:58 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55158 I think that the better interpretation of what the Post is saying, which may in fact be accurate according to the poll data, is that if you discard all those who favor a general PO, then of all those that remain 76% will favor the PO run by individual states rather than by the government. If true then this result would seem to show only that people beleive that states can run a program better than the government. What it also shows is that these people don't have the foggiest idea that the most efficent way to manage risk is to spread it among the largest pool possible and not to fragment that pool into 50 smaller fragments. Maybe the people being polled should have had that explained to them first. I think that the better interpretation of what the Post is saying, which may in fact be accurate according to the poll data, is that if you discard all those who favor a general PO, then of all those that remain 76% will favor the PO run by individual states rather than by the government.

If true then this result would seem to show only that people beleive that states can run a program better than the government. What it also shows is that these people don’t have the foggiest idea that the most efficent way to manage risk is to spread it among the largest pool possible and not to fragment that pool into 50 smaller fragments.

Maybe the people being polled should have had that explained to them first.

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55148 letsgetitdone Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:27:57 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55148 Kip's post also talks about the previous results relating to WaPo's questions about support for the PO. So it is directly relevant to this post of Jon's. Kip’s post also talks about the previous results relating to WaPo’s questions about support for the PO. So it is directly relevant to this post of Jon’s.

]]> By: ralphbon http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55129 ralphbon Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:46:03 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55129 Glad my hard-won, stumbled-upon solution was of use to at least one other human. Back to polls, the latest piece by Kip Sullivan,<a href="http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/10/19/%e2%80%9cpublic-option%e2%80%9d-bait-and-switch-campaign-fools-pollsters/" rel="nofollow">“Public option” bait-and-switch campaign fools pollsters</a>, directly relates to this post. The basic point is that virtually all opinion polls gauging support for the public option overstate its scope. Essential reading, and a key follow-up to Kip's other "bait-and-switch" discussions. I made a related point <a href="http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7728" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Glad my hard-won, stumbled-upon solution was of use to at least one other human.

Back to polls, the latest piece by Kip Sullivan,“Public option” bait-and-switch campaign fools pollsters, directly relates to this post. The basic point is that virtually all opinion polls gauging support for the public option overstate its scope. Essential reading, and a key follow-up to Kip’s other “bait-and-switch” discussions.

I made a related point here.

]]> By: OldFatGuy http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55127 OldFatGuy Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:33:04 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55127 Doh, I just wasn't loggin in. Told you I was an idjit!!! LOL. Yep, works great!!!! Thanks a lot!!! And to Jon, man I apologize. You wrote a GREAT POST, finding what probably most other news orgs aren't going to bother even looking into, and I hijack your thread. My sincere apologies. Doh,

I just wasn’t loggin in.

Told you I was an idjit!!! LOL.

Yep, works great!!!!

Thanks a lot!!!

And to Jon, man I apologize. You wrote a GREAT POST, finding what probably most other news orgs aren’t going to bother even looking into, and I hijack your thread.

My sincere apologies.

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55126 letsgetitdone Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:30:14 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55126 Jon, Thanks for pointing to the problems. However, I think there are a lot more problems than just these two. The whole frame is very biased toward the Administration's getting anything passed right now. This plays into <a href="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55120" rel="nofollow">Hugh's comment</a> about papers like the WP wanting public support. Our press is already too inclined towards framing issues in a way that is favorable to the Government of the moment. We all know the role that played in getting us into the Iraq War, and right now the framings used by WaPo and NYT are pretty biased toward staying in Afghanistan, deficit hawking on all domestic issues, but not on Afghanistan or Pakistan, and supporting the Administration's moves in the torture accountability and surveillance areas. I wouldn't want News Media like that to get any Government support at all. Jon, Thanks for pointing to the problems. However, I think there are a lot more problems than just these two. The whole frame is very biased toward the Administration’s getting anything passed right now.

This plays into Hugh’s comment about papers like the WP wanting public support. Our press is already too inclined towards framing issues in a way that is favorable to the Government of the moment. We all know the role that played in getting us into the Iraq War, and right now the framings used by WaPo and NYT are pretty biased toward staying in Afghanistan, deficit hawking on all domestic issues, but not on Afghanistan or Pakistan, and supporting the Administration’s moves in the torture accountability and surveillance areas. I wouldn’t want News Media like that to get any Government support at all.

]]> By: ralphbon http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55125 ralphbon Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:25:06 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55125 Why can't you comment? For me, everything works as before. My life would be empty if I couldn't club Jason Rosenbaum over the head at least once a day. Why can’t you comment? For me, everything works as before. My life would be empty if I couldn’t club Jason Rosenbaum over the head at least once a day.

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55124 letsgetitdone Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:21:22 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55124 Hi Ralph, I use FF and get the following error message when I try to go to Emptywheel: "Method Not Implemented GET to / not supported." I have no problem going to EW in IE Hi Ralph, I use FF and get the following error message when I try to go to Emptywheel:

“Method Not Implemented

GET to / not supported.”

I have no problem going to EW in IE

]]> By: OldFatGuy http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55123 OldFatGuy Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:19:33 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55123 Hey, THAT DID IT!!! Yeah, same here. I used to be able to get to The Seminal just like all the others then about two months ago, BLAM, and ever since no go. Oh well, I guess I can't comment when using InPrivate browsing, but at least now I can read it!!!! (LOL, maybe that's why they did it! *BIG GRIN*) Thank you man!!! Hey, THAT DID IT!!!

Yeah, same here. I used to be able to get to The Seminal just like all the others then about two months ago, BLAM, and ever since no go.

Oh well, I guess I can’t comment when using InPrivate browsing, but at least now I can read it!!!! (LOL, maybe that’s why they did it! *BIG GRIN*)

Thank you man!!!

]]> By: ralphbon http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/the-washington-post-makes-false-claims-about-their-own-poll/#comment-55121 ralphbon Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:03:05 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3540#comment-55121 Hey, OFG! I've had the same problem for nearly two months! Same error messages: 501/505. And nothing seemed to fix it. The instrux from Microsoft didn't do anything, clearing caches, nuking cookies, nothing. Described the problem to several techies...crickets. You're the first commenter I've come across who has the same problem. The problem is limited to the Seminal; all other FDL sites work fine. The only thing that works for me, and it works perfectly, is to activate InPrivate browsing, using Internet Explorer version 8, whenever I need to access the Seminal. Until I discovered that fix, I had to use a different computer when accessing the Seminal. Now, as long as I use InPrivate, all is well. Hope this helps. Hey, OFG! I’ve had the same problem for nearly two months! Same error messages: 501/505. And nothing seemed to fix it. The instrux from Microsoft didn’t do anything, clearing caches, nuking cookies, nothing. Described the problem to several techies…crickets. You’re the first commenter I’ve come across who has the same problem.

The problem is limited to the Seminal; all other FDL sites work fine.

The only thing that works for me, and it works perfectly, is to activate InPrivate browsing, using Internet Explorer version 8, whenever I need to access the Seminal. Until I discovered that fix, I had to use a different computer when accessing the Seminal. Now, as long as I use InPrivate, all is well.

Hope this helps.

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