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	<title>Comments on: An Excise Tax On Health Insurance Benefits Is Middle Class Regressive</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: jeffh</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55067</link>
		<dc:creator>jeffh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55067</guid>
		<description>These proposals would absolutely gut the broad political support that Social Security and Medicare currently enjoy.  The reason that the social security tax is capped is that benefits are capped. If you break the current system where contributions and benefits are linked (with benefit subsidies for low wage earners) then SS looks like a welfare program rather than a government run pension system - and not many people are going to be keen on seeing 12% of wages going to a welfare program.

Likewise with Medicare - here the tax is currently uncapped, but at least you know you will receive the health care you need in retirement, also without a cap.  Both of these proposals would also wreak havoc with the marginal tax rate as benefits phased out.

Finally this system would create bizarre incentives to save less for retirement, about the last this we should encourage at the current time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These proposals would absolutely gut the broad political support that Social Security and Medicare currently enjoy.  The reason that the social security tax is capped is that benefits are capped. If you break the current system where contributions and benefits are linked (with benefit subsidies for low wage earners) then SS looks like a welfare program rather than a government run pension system &#8211; and not many people are going to be keen on seeing 12% of wages going to a welfare program.</p>
<p>Likewise with Medicare &#8211; here the tax is currently uncapped, but at least you know you will receive the health care you need in retirement, also without a cap.  Both of these proposals would also wreak havoc with the marginal tax rate as benefits phased out.</p>
<p>Finally this system would create bizarre incentives to save less for retirement, about the last this we should encourage at the current time.</p>
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		<title>By: mickormac</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55065</link>
		<dc:creator>mickormac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55065</guid>
		<description>the average profit margin for health insurers is about 4% so with that being the standard for thievery i guess companies like microsoft 26%, exxon mobile 8%, Cisco 16%, general electric 7% and monsanto 16% are the barney madoffs of the big business?

source finance.yahoo.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the average profit margin for health insurers is about 4% so with that being the standard for thievery i guess companies like microsoft 26%, exxon mobile 8%, Cisco 16%, general electric 7% and monsanto 16% are the barney madoffs of the big business?</p>
<p>source finance.yahoo.com</p>
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		<title>By: SomeGuy</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55064</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55064</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe they are calling this the Cadillac tax in the news. I can understand that is how the Admin wants to spin it, but the press should use some judgement. 

Just because the Admin says it, does not mean they have to type it and put it on the air, as if it were the undisputed truth.  

This is the Union tax. In a few years it will be the Police, Fire, Senior, and Teacher tax. How many people who will pay this tax are really driving Cadillacs, and how many are Union members. 

Listening to the news, you&#039;d picture somebody who will pay the tax as some guy who looks like the Monopoly guy with a top hat and monocle climbing out of his Cadillac.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe they are calling this the Cadillac tax in the news. I can understand that is how the Admin wants to spin it, but the press should use some judgement. </p>
<p>Just because the Admin says it, does not mean they have to type it and put it on the air, as if it were the undisputed truth.  </p>
<p>This is the Union tax. In a few years it will be the Police, Fire, Senior, and Teacher tax. How many people who will pay this tax are really driving Cadillacs, and how many are Union members. </p>
<p>Listening to the news, you&#8217;d picture somebody who will pay the tax as some guy who looks like the Monopoly guy with a top hat and monocle climbing out of his Cadillac.</p>
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		<title>By: Nutella</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55053</link>
		<dc:creator>Nutella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 01:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55053</guid>
		<description>Another thing to keep in mind is that small companies are charged MUCH higher rates for the same health insurance than large companies.  This will be another burden on small business, which is the part of the economy that generates new jobs.

Unless the small businesses can switch to a public option instead and dump the thieving insurance companies altogether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that small companies are charged MUCH higher rates for the same health insurance than large companies.  This will be another burden on small business, which is the part of the economy that generates new jobs.</p>
<p>Unless the small businesses can switch to a public option instead and dump the thieving insurance companies altogether.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Walker</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55027</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55027</guid>
		<description>It is over the ten year window not one year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is over the ten year window not one year.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55025</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55025</guid>
		<description>Nicely said.  It raises what ought to be an obvious point.  There should be no surtax on the value of premiums paid for health insurance.  That both makes the insurance itself more expensive and lowers the floor for what constitutes acceptable minimum quality of health care.

Let&#039;s face it: only the rich and destitute will have access to health insurance that isn&#039;t paid for by way of health insurance. If a surtax on health insurance premiums isn&#039;t avoidable, it ought to apply only to those who also make in excess of an agreed high minimum salary.  That would exempt the likes of active and retired union workers.  

What non-GOP head case wants to tax a middle income union worker or their surviving spouse on medical insurance when the executive paying the same tax has it paid by a gross up in salary - and therefore has no more skin in the game than a Congresscritter who can have their gout looked after for virtually nothing by taking an express ride to the Navy-staffed hospital underneath the Capitol Building?

Let&#039;s not forget in this debate that Congresscritters have no skin in this game except what promotes their re-election.  Most are millionaires, in the top 1% of incomes, AND they have virtually cost-free taxpayer-paid FULL medical care (while active) and medical insurance (when retired).  Like John McCain and Orrin Hatch.  I can&#039;t imagine a more socialistic benefit, can you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely said.  It raises what ought to be an obvious point.  There should be no surtax on the value of premiums paid for health insurance.  That both makes the insurance itself more expensive and lowers the floor for what constitutes acceptable minimum quality of health care.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it: only the rich and destitute will have access to health insurance that isn&#8217;t paid for by way of health insurance. If a surtax on health insurance premiums isn&#8217;t avoidable, it ought to apply only to those who also make in excess of an agreed high minimum salary.  That would exempt the likes of active and retired union workers.  </p>
<p>What non-GOP head case wants to tax a middle income union worker or their surviving spouse on medical insurance when the executive paying the same tax has it paid by a gross up in salary &#8211; and therefore has no more skin in the game than a Congresscritter who can have their gout looked after for virtually nothing by taking an express ride to the Navy-staffed hospital underneath the Capitol Building?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not forget in this debate that Congresscritters have no skin in this game except what promotes their re-election.  Most are millionaires, in the top 1% of incomes, AND they have virtually cost-free taxpayer-paid FULL medical care (while active) and medical insurance (when retired).  Like John McCain and Orrin Hatch.  I can&#8217;t imagine a more socialistic benefit, can you?</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55009</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55009</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Besides, like me once you get yours why not practice a litte of the lost art of noblesse oblige to show you have some class in your plushy golden years…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If you want to oblige some of that noblesse my way, lemme know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Besides, like me once you get yours why not practice a litte of the lost art of noblesse oblige to show you have some class in your plushy golden years…</p></blockquote>
<p>If you want to oblige some of that noblesse my way, lemme know.</p>
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		<title>By: LKN2</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-55007</link>
		<dc:creator>LKN2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-55007</guid>
		<description>The &quot;cadillac&quot; designation will likely apply to the premiums of anyone over 40.  Don&#039;t forget that current bills allow the insurers to vary premiums because of age - I think they&#039;re allowed to charge a 60 year old five times the amount of a 20 year old (FYI my current plan charges the 60 yr old less than 2 1/2 times).  So, as people get older they will be much more likely to be subjected to the excise tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;cadillac&#8221; designation will likely apply to the premiums of anyone over 40.  Don&#8217;t forget that current bills allow the insurers to vary premiums because of age &#8211; I think they&#8217;re allowed to charge a 60 year old five times the amount of a 20 year old (FYI my current plan charges the 60 yr old less than 2 1/2 times).  So, as people get older they will be much more likely to be subjected to the excise tax.</p>
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		<title>By: mesamick</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-54998</link>
		<dc:creator>mesamick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-54998</guid>
		<description>Wanna know how to pay for the public option, fix Soc Sec and Medicare that is fair to everybody?  It is really simple: 

1.  Let the Bush tax cut for the super rich sunset as it was originally passed.

2.  For any family or person making over $250K NET income from salary and that have their health care premiums partially or fully paid for by their employers they should have those contributions taxed as regular income.  Buck up Americans and finally admit that it is income - you will be doing all of us a favor by facing reality.

3.  Eliminate the cap on Soc Sec max income. That is to say if while you are making it your paying it. And finally...

4.  To determine government payments when you retire, put prorated means testing on Soc Sec, Medicare and Medicaid benefits.  The more retirement income you have coming in over a certain amount of annual income (pick any amount $250K and up gross) the less you should get from Uncle Sam.  If you do not need it why would you want to take it - cause your greedy maybe?

Sure there are those that will argue that this is too simplistic (and to scare the hell out of any rethuglicons that read FDL - socialistic) why complicate things if you do not have to.  Besides, like me once you get yours why not practice a litte of the lost art of noblesse oblige to show you have some class in your plushy golden years...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wanna know how to pay for the public option, fix Soc Sec and Medicare that is fair to everybody?  It is really simple: </p>
<p>1.  Let the Bush tax cut for the super rich sunset as it was originally passed.</p>
<p>2.  For any family or person making over $250K NET income from salary and that have their health care premiums partially or fully paid for by their employers they should have those contributions taxed as regular income.  Buck up Americans and finally admit that it is income &#8211; you will be doing all of us a favor by facing reality.</p>
<p>3.  Eliminate the cap on Soc Sec max income. That is to say if while you are making it your paying it. And finally&#8230;</p>
<p>4.  To determine government payments when you retire, put prorated means testing on Soc Sec, Medicare and Medicaid benefits.  The more retirement income you have coming in over a certain amount of annual income (pick any amount $250K and up gross) the less you should get from Uncle Sam.  If you do not need it why would you want to take it &#8211; cause your greedy maybe?</p>
<p>Sure there are those that will argue that this is too simplistic (and to scare the hell out of any rethuglicons that read FDL &#8211; socialistic) why complicate things if you do not have to.  Besides, like me once you get yours why not practice a litte of the lost art of noblesse oblige to show you have some class in your plushy golden years&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sad4america</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/19/an-excise-tax-on-health-insurance-benefits-is-middle-class-regressive/#comment-54997</link>
		<dc:creator>sad4america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=3498#comment-54997</guid>
		<description>You do realize that the charity tax credit is based off income tax bracket right. The &quot;high income earners get taxed at 35% and get a credit of 35% on charitiable donations. Just as those in the 28% tax bracket get a 28% credit. I have no idea how the Government would make &quot;hundreds of billions more in tax dollars&quot; That would imply that the top lets go low and say 5% of income earners donate nearly a trillion dollars a year. Although that group does donate much but they don&#039;t have that much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You do realize that the charity tax credit is based off income tax bracket right. The &#8220;high income earners get taxed at 35% and get a credit of 35% on charitiable donations. Just as those in the 28% tax bracket get a 28% credit. I have no idea how the Government would make &#8220;hundreds of billions more in tax dollars&#8221; That would imply that the top lets go low and say 5% of income earners donate nearly a trillion dollars a year. Although that group does donate much but they don&#8217;t have that much.</p>
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