Just saw this on TPM, Jon, and so delighted to see you’ve already got it up and highlighted. Many thnx. Maybe, by putting this ball squarely in Reid’s court where it surely belongs, Schumer and the others who recognize what the American public wants will be able to win the day. Fingers crossed.

Surprise me, Harry–add the HELP bill PO. Do the right thing for a change.

I agree with your analysis, but I don’t think you take it quite far enough.

In my view, if HCR gets passed w/out a vibrant public option, it will either be meaningless reform (meaning it won’t accomplish anything), or it will be a giveaway to the insurance companies or worse. Either way, while Harry Reid may be the one who commits the blunder, it is ultimately the Democratic Party which will be blamed by the public at large. Many who have been skeptical of the Democrats for years, but who were so disillusioned by the Bush years that they were willing to give the Dems a chance, will be disillusioned by the Democrats failure on their signature issue. I don’t see a large percentage of the populations blaming Harry Reid; I see them blaming President Obama and “the Democrats” as a whole. Sure, the inside-baseball players will know, but that won’t be a big story. The tradmed will not blame Harry Reid, anymore than they have reported that he has the power to overcome the filibuster, or that he has allowed silent filibusters to control the agenda repeatedly. They will implicate the President (deservedly, to no small degree, since he hasn’t spent much political capital on this to date), and the Democrats, who couldn’t get it done even with control of both Houses and the WH. Reid will be lost in the shuffle.

Schumer is redeeming himself for all of his heavy lifting on Mukasey.

A shot across the bow. Schumer has enough votes to dump Reid as majority leader if he fails to pass a bill with a public option. Because Reid would be selling out a substantial majority of his caucus.

More Kabuki. Giving Reid an excuse to say ‘they made me do it.’ It’s a classic move, and not the first time we’ve seen this administration make it.

what exactly is schumer referring to here? a public option for the uninsured that kicks in in 2013 after another 2,00,000 people are dead because they didn’t have insurance? and does this public option come with triggers courtesy empress snowe?

Why aren’t we hearing anything from Dodd?

Here we get to see the shape of Reid’s spine. He’s damned if he does, and double-damned if he doesn’t. There is no question that he’s a politician extraordinaire… now can he read the winds well, or is he going to ride the lobbyist train to hell and obscurity?

Both options are on his table… which will he chose?

An excellent point. That may be the only kind of pressure against Reid that will be effective.

I see two things at stake. If a bill passes without a meaningful PO, Reid will loose his seat in 2010 for sure, and Obama and the Democratic Party will be the ones that will take the national heat for this failure. You simply can’t spin a bad healthcare bill because it affects people’s wallet and health on a very concrete level everyday. Healthcare has the potential to change the rest of a persons life in an instant and everyone knows personally of at least a couple horror stories related to our current system. The DELIBERATE ignorance about the public’s desire for a PO coming out of the WH can only be seen as an attempt to gain favor with the insurance industry and pharma at the expense of every American. I never thought I would again view someone with the same disdain that I felt for Bush, but Obamas weasely two-step on healthcare makes me wonder if he is not as callous and uncaring as Bush.

Go, Senator Schumer!

His remarks will NOT sit well with Reid, as you point out, BUT SO WHAT?

Schumer is showing great courage on this important moral issue.

Stupid is a condition.

Ignorance is a choice.

Okay, Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, which one fits you?

Dodd is also in this group. If a PO is not in the bill as it emerges from this committee he is going to be toast along with Reid.

CALL
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid
(702) 388-5020
Tell him, “You must bring a bill to the floor of the Senate that has the strongest possible public option. No triggers, co-ops or delays.”

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
(415) 556-4862
Tell her, “You must lobby Democrats to support a robust public insurance option tied to Medicare rates, +5%”

keeping in mind Jane’s background 411 on Reid, Labor, and how essential they are to his re election efforts

another shot across the bow

WASHINGTON — About 30 unions will run a full-page ad in newspapers Wednesday announcing their opposition to the Senate Finance Committee’s health overhaul bill, a top labor lobbyist said

The ad will state, “Real health care reform and nothing less,” Loveless said

squirm on with your bad self Harry

Imagine relying on a senator from Nevada that is so hated by his own people? Imagine someone that is defending a war criminal because he is a fellow religionista? Imagine someone that allowed a senator from Montana to dictate policy for the other 99.9 percent of Americans? Imagine someone that allowed president cheney to rub his face in shit every day of the 8 years they had to kick him around? Imagine someone that allowed a war based on fiction to go forward, a patriot act to revoke rights that Americans were still using.
Imagine a leader that allows republicans to dictate to him when he has a majority to get bills passed? I think we have to imagine what the guy has done, as there is no record of any accomplishment that isn’t a victory for the GOP. Sit down and eat your milquetoast Walter.

… does Reid want to be known as the man who killed the public option?

And the answer is: No Problem? Democrats and especially the ineffectual Reid have no problem rolling over on even the most crucial issues like the Public Option. And Obama will use Reid for cover, who cares what the people who elected them want. Just watch.

Schumer has enough votes to dump Reid as majority leader if he fails to pass a bill with a public option.

they can do that? What the hell has taken them so long?

Dump this lilly-livered chump, who hasn’t accomplished a goddamned thing in his entire tenure, and put someone into the lineup who can.

P.S. – I should probably say that Harry hasn’t accomplished *positive* thing he most certainly has presided over some debacles.

If there is no public option, there is no health care reform, period, and a helluva lot more Democrats than just poor old Harry Reid are going to be in very deep doo-doo.

ok Jon Walker – so why did Schumer tout the Carper Opt Out bs ? did he somehow see it as a real PO ? nah really, why ?

Debacles for us humans, largess for the corporations.

Harry, the Shrub Administration practice of naming legislation the opposite of its actual provisions, e.g., No Child Left Behind, Clear Skies Initiative, doesn’t work anymore. If you come out with a bill without the PO not only are you toast in 2010 you’re a fucking liar.

Thieves and liars. Scum of the earth.

You are absolutely right. The Dims will pay if they pass a feeble version of reform. What I keep wondering is why the Obama admin doesn’t seem to see this. I’m less worried about Harry than I am Obama. If Harry gets the word that a strong public option needs to be there from Obama, it will be there. But it’s been clear to me that it is Obama that wants a “handcuffed” version of the public option–one that most people won’t be affected by and therefore will be left wondering what all this struggle was about. Don’t they want to keep majorities in Congress? Why put the interests of the lobbyists ahead of the people when a meaningful healthcare reform will be like a new New Deal? Democrats for a generation. I agree with Howard Dean who keeps saying they need to use reconciliation to add at least some people under 65 to Medicare immediatly so that in 2010, voters know what this was about.

Somebody ask Schumer: Would you support the removal of Reid as majority leader, if he doesn’t put in a decent PO?

NY is a very blue state, There is no way it would opt out. From Schumer’s point of view it is a public option for his voters?

Would you prefer to have seen the Finance Committee report out a bill that had no public option or had an opt-out PO?

gotcha.

neither

Why we just calling for “Public Option” (still undefined largely) if Reid can just stick a PO in there. Why not stick Single Payer language in the bill?

I’m watching Citizen Jane on Demo Now, sticking it to “Ra” and Obama.

Hailing “Republican” support is laughable at best, it doesn’t even pass the giggle test.

Good on Chuck to fingering Reid, the problem is those that read the blogs and watch MSNBC already know who are “part of the problem”.

Definitely. At least then there would be a public option for sure. I live in TX and I don’t think even here we would opt out for long. The Repthugs would claim we were paying for it anyway to justify opting in. Not opting in would be a loser except in very extremist quarters.

mike, even though Jane was correct in saying their usual cya bs about taking turns taking the blame isn’t going to work this time – Dodd wont be as tarred as others simply by invoking Teddy and how he ‘just wanted to finish the Lion’s life’s work’ blah, blah, blah

and he’s already in re elect trouble

THink I would rather see Durbin become leader. I think Shumer has to many ties to financial interests.

loohoo @ 4
And Mukasey might redeem himself if the John Durham investigation brings home the bacon -ie indicts some former gwb 43 principals. ( I always have wondered why Schumer pushed so hard for Mukasey , and why Mukasey had that George Orwell portrait hanging on his office wall – could it be that Durham was “sleeper” appointment to begin the jod of ngoing after bushco before the 2008 elections ?)

Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is up and ready: “How Many of GOP.com’s “Republican Heroes” Would Be Republicans Today?”

I think Reid is going to be deposed–either by losing re-election or by a challenge from someone like Shumer or Durbin. I can only think the reason he is still in his position is tha tthey don’t want to jeopardize his already precarious re-election chances. Maybe I’m wrong and Senate old boyness will prevail, but it’s got to be obvious to everyone that he has been a very weak leader.

Shit, inasmuch as the Senate dances around the rules anyhow why not make Franken Majority Leader. He doesn’t have the years of largess monkey on his back and the dude’s got a set.

I smell Health Reform Legislative Death

foothillsmike @ 32
Yes and Durbin has been a tireless advocate of all progressive causes over many years ,and is particularly outspoken about holding accountable and punishing all torturers -including Cheney …

Well, this is good news and bad news. Schumer putting the arm on Reid is good, but doesn’t that also get the heat off everyone else (that’s bad). All of them should have been stand up reps and senators well before now. It’s not like they didn’t know what the public wanted before now.

Regardless if it’s reid alone that blows it, the GOP will punch everyone over the head with the issue come election time. Even if GOP wasn’t for health reform they’ll be happy to remind everyone that Dems didn’t get it done.

snark? just checking.

If it were me talking about durbin, your comment would be total snark.

Durbin has long functioned as Sammy the Bull to Reid’s Gotti

and although he is one of the Illinois crowd and caucus loyal above all else, (see Pachacutec @ Denver) haven’t seen anything to indicate he would move on Reid

Schumer otoh . . .

With a leader like Reid who needs rethugs to screw things up.

I’m not going to let durbin off the hook for his “something that looks like PO” comment. what a tell.

To a blind person does an elephant look something like a mouse if only described by another person? Too weird, sorry. All in how it’s sold.

neither

So you’re willing to risk no public option for anyone over one that would force the conservatives to affirmatively screw their constituents?

Unfortunately for us, so many liberals and progressives are only able to see face value on a policy proposal, and are unwilling to work through how it would play out when confronted with the brutal realities of politics.

When did it become wise to adopt a posture that would have nobody got anything until everyone got everything?

It is just amazing to see progressive commentators meeting the Democrats half way in a joint campaign to fuck this up so that it is just an individual mandate to increase corporate welfare.

Mr. Schumer is not much of a friend to consumers. He prefers to protect the profits of NYC banksters and insuresters rather than the pockets of consumers.

Is his public statement here an individual position? Is he jumping on the bandwagon, having recognized the inevitability of some form of public option being necessary not to lose big in 2010? (And to avoid causing further great harm to tens of millions of Americans?)

Or is Mr. Schumer, Mr. Insider, providing cover for the Democratic Leadersheep? It could be to protect Reid and Obama from the insurersters, who may feel slighted that Mr. Obama has not danced every dance with them. It could be to protect them from the left, by making the weakest of all public options look as if it were substantive change and by making himself look like an advocate for that change.

One thing’s for sure, Mr. Schumer (D-Bankers of America) likes his fine print, so read it before clapping too loudly.

Remember that the insurers came out against Obama once Wall Street signaled that Baucuscare would crimp their profits. ‘

Schumer is the Senator from Wall Street.

How does that dissonance get resolved?

Let’s just say that Harry decides to kill the PO. Then he gets his gavel taken away and loses his Senate seat in 2010.

So what? The damage will have been done, and we’ll have to wait another generation to try again. Sure someone better may come along who could lead well on some other issues…but healthcare is the biggest D issue. On that the D’s will have failed, utterly.

There is no reprecussion strong enough to punish Harry Reid for failed leadership on this.

There is no reprecussion strong enough to punish Harry Reid for failed leadership on this.

What about the President?

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Jon Walker and the Fitrepup Freedom Fighters:

I promise this is the last time I will pronosticate about Obama and national healthcare but here it goes: I think that what we might be seein’ here is one of the most masterful applications of executive power politics we have seen in 150 years.

Let’s look at the last 6 months. ObamaRahma began the early public conversation about healthcare reform by steadfastly holding to the idea of “bipartisanship” thereby mobilzin’ the progressive activists to organize and then galvanize public opinion behind a public option. At each stage of the conversation Obama would attest to his support for a “public option” while Rahma was cultivating Blue Dogs and the insurance lobby and managed to stall the industry from immediately unleashing the same media attack that sent reform into the dustbin in 1994.

By the August recess, it appeared that the support for real reform had peaked and that the insurance and drug comapnies would be able to use a small well paid force of fascist thugs and fake news reporting to drive wedges between the constituencies that were softest on Obama and healthcare reform. The administration began to hide behind procedural and tactical arguments to justify its continuing quest for “bipartisanship”. As September unfolded the anti-reform forces were exusted and the strength of the mass of support for the public option began to solidify. As September grew older, progressive efforts to break the potential hold of the Blue Dogs over the process strengthened and the “progressive” caucus that was willin’ to vote against a bill without a public option stood firm in the face of a real assualt from Rahma while Obama appeared to be cavin in to Harry Reid, Max Baucus and Olympia Snowe. And the various bills in committee matured and attention was focused on the Finance Committee and what language would come outta this last committee.

Now we’re in October and look at how the forces are arrayed on the battlefield and who controls what as the music starts for the final procedural dance. Obama owns Harry Reid, Max Baucus and Chris Dodd. The “progressive” voices of Schumer, Rockefeller, Brown, Harkin et al are clear over noise of the forces for non-reform reform. Obama now holds the entire issue in his hands and he controls the Senate leadership and the “conservaDem” fascist fellow travelers includin’ Joe Likuderman. The House of Representatives is now consolidated behind a public option and the Blue Dogs have been neutered. The Senate will now deal with the HELP bill on the floor of the Senate and the House of Representatives will report out a strong medicare plus bill. Remember that Reid is in Obama’s pocket and now Rahma is martialin’ his forces to squeeze various neutered Blue Dog senators. Look for a very limited list of amendments to be approved for floor consideration to the HELP bill with the very real possibility of the first one bein a “bipartisan” amendment to put medicare plus 5% into the HELP bill WITH a very narrow “opt-out” for the states. No matter what happens with the amendments, the HELP bill will pass cloture and go to conference with the House bill and what comes out will be a strong and effective piece of legislation.

This is how I see a possible end game to all this and it all hinges on the a-priori assumption that Obama knows he owns the bill and the outcome and that he won’t asurvive if he caves in to the healthcare industry and Wall Street.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS JAY ROCKEFELLER SOME LOVE!!

This post is about Harry Reid. But, yes, the same goes for Obama.

Driveby, but BIG news, (imvho):

Harry Reid testifying before Sen Judiciary Committee today that the anti-trust loophole that allows healthCos to be exempted from antitrust protection needs to be eliminated.

I think this is potentially huge.

This topic was also discussed on MNSBC’s “Morning Meeting” today, in which Schumer brought it up.

I hope this is the Democrat’s smack-down to the insulting effort at sabotage pulled by the healthCos on Monday. (I’d still like to have been a fly on the wall to know who in the GOP – or Blue Dogs – wanted that specious healthCo so-called ‘report’ released on Monday. I hope the Dems are collassally insulted at that attempt to bully and browbeat them. It would be interesting if this is part of the fallout.)

Schumer and Ratigan both explain why the antitrust exemption is not needed for health care, and why other solutions (involving exchange structures like Wyden’s proposal) are far more competitive — and more likely to be far more transparent.

Gotta say, this looks like a smart move by Schumer, Leahy, and Reid.

“You simply can’t spin a bad healthcare bill because it affects people’s wallet and health on a very concrete level everyday.

I sure hope you’re right. Still, the old adage about “a year is a lifetime in politics,” haunts us. The slack- jawed American public has proven to be all too easily mesmerized by bright, shiny objects. Maybe conditions are different this time.

That’s what I’ve been thinking.

I must apologize for being away for so long. Just back from a couple weeks in Europe.

Unless their just tossing it as a bone to us for letting the PO die.

ObamaRahma began the early public conversation about healthcare reform by steadfastly holding to the idea of “bipartisanship” thereby mobilzin’ the progressive activists to organize and then galvanize public opinion behind a public option

So Obama has brilliantly led progressives by…not leading progressives?

Meanwhile, Rahm collected the members of the veal pen in a room for the purpose of publicly calling progressive activists “fucking stupid”?

Citizen yellowsnapdragon:

Becareful of “soundbite” characatures…Obama has been masterful in appearin’ to distance himself from progressives while slowly tightenin’ his grip on the Senate Blue Dogs startin’ with Harry Reid. Remember, Obama’s credibility as a moderate “compromiser” has not suffered one bit while expectations have been raised in the body politic and Obama now owns the entire final product…he can’t survive a weak or no bill and he knows it.

That’s a swell writeup, however you forgot all the people that ripped their representatives to shreds, that happened well before the insurance industry got involved. Half the cowards canceled their town-halls as I recall.

Was it Rahm and Obama who tightened their grip on Blue Dogs, or was the damage to the Blue Dog caucus caused by the newly inspired Progressive Caucus who were targeted by our own Jane?

By the way, have you seen this quote from Rahm on Labor’s response to the Baucus Bill today (via Kos)?

Emanuel asked organized labor not to go public in opposition, said Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.

Why would Rahm want Unions to keep quiet if the purpose is to strengthen healthcare reform?

and if you look at my 16 above, Labor told him to get bent !

nice try and thanks for playing Mr Emmanuel

This post is about Harry Reid. But, yes, the same goes for Obama.

They’re the same thing.

(I’d still like to have been a fly on the wall to know who in the GOP – or Blue Dogs – wanted that specious healthCo so-called ‘report’ released on Monday. I hope the Dems are collassally insulted at that attempt to bully and browbeat them. It would be interesting if this is part of the fallout.)

Every local politician who I know would go fucking ballistic over being screwed in public as the AHIP double crossed Obama and would make them pay.

Oh, I SEE now! Obama is like a JEDI knight who, with his transcendant mental powers, foresaw every single move of this farcical Chinese fire drill. Norske, my eloquent citizen scribe, I fear you have gone from too little medication to too much. If things fall into place it will be in spite of Obama and not because of him – or by dumb luck on his part. Still, elaborate strategic plots are always enjoyed by us movie lovers, so keep on spinnin’ ‘em. Things seem particularly pleasant in Flameland of late!

Seconded. With much due respect to the Flamethrower.

By providing a vacuum of political and moral leadership, by not bringing America along with him to implement a vision of change, Obama allowed the Chinese fire drill to quite likely burn down the house.

Wow! To think it all rides on mister milk toast. You know they say the guy was a boxer, must be why he gave it up for politics, cause he sure can’t fight.

If he’s a leader, god throw him out and get Casper the Friendly Ghost he would be stronger.

Add in Lieberman as he won’t vote for PO. He should be thrown out after this and lose all tenure. How they thought that ass would be on their side was a big mistake. Or maybe that is what WH wants>

Add in Lieberman as he won’t vote for PO. He should be thrown out after this and lose all tenure. How they thought that ass would be on their side was a big mistake. Or maybe that is what WH wants>

Nah, the dems have no respect, for either themselves or us.

I think Reid will some of the blame alright, but you’re right that plenty of it will justly go to the Democrats generally and to the President whose perfidy and dishonesty in this reform effort is something I won’t forget about.

If there is no public option in the final bill, blame Barack Obama. This will be 100% the fault of the WH, not Harry, or anyone else in Congress.

You’re right. He’s in big trouble now because of his advocacy for the special interests. If he folds on health insurance reform, nothing will save him. If Reid fails to include a PO in the final bill, then Dodd better lead a successful floor fight for adding that to the bill, and since such a fight would require 60 votes to cut off debate, Dodd will first have to lead a floor fight to get rid of the filibuster. Only stuff like this will save his butt.

Sagacity, you asked:

“What I keep wondering is why the Obama admin doesn’t seem to see this.”

Just a guess: I don’t think the polls show that yet, and the Administration doesn’t seem very adept at anticipation beyond the polls, e.g. 1) passing a stimulus bill that leaves them with double-digit unemployment, so that they now must go back to the well for a jobs bill, and 2) bailing out the banks and hoping that they would be grateful enough to extend the credit that Main Street needs to get the economy going again, rather than taking the banks into receivership and making the necessary loans from the government-controlled banks.

Why not just substitute Bernie Sanders’ S 703 Medicare for All, for both the HELP and the Finance bills. Then let the health insurance industry see if they can get the 60 votes (for a change) necessary to amend that. Bet Empress Snowe and President Collins wouldn’t be nearly so important in that scenario.

Durbin is AIPAC’s point man, in fact he was literally recruited by them to run.