The bill passes the Senate Finance Committee 14-9.
2:51 – Vote: all Democrats vote yes. Snowe is only Republican to join with the Democrats. the bill passes 14-9.
2:48 – To address Kyl previous complaint about the technical corrections not being part of the bill scored, Baucus had it voted on as an amendment. For some reason all the Republicans voted no. (This is a strange silliness I just can’t wrap my head around.)
2:40 – (Rockefeller with the closer. A nice gesture to win his vote?) Rockefeller will vote for the bill in spite of a lot of problems he has with it. He thinks the health insurance industry gets to sweet a deal. He favors the minimum medical loss ratio of 85% and believes a public option is necessary to slow down the health insurance industry. Rockefeller says the co-ops will not work and new regulations need to apply to all health insurance plans.
2:39 – Stabenow is now reading straight from the AARP website. They claim it is a myth that reform will hurt Medicare.
2:34 – Grassley harps on the fact that fixing Medicare Advantage overpayment could result in the reduction of some extra benefits Medicare Advantage sometimes provides.
2:23 – Carpo points out that the excise tax on high end insurance would hit people make below $250,000. (This is because people would start getting higher taxable wages and less money spent on their benefits by employers.) Carpo claims a vote against the bill is not a vote for the status quo. He claims the bill is a huge tax increase on middleclass Americans but does not bend the cost curve.
Carpo is another Republican to mention the 25 million left uninsured figure. (I’m surprised to see how many Republicans have pick up on the 25 million still uninsured number. It is a strange attack from the left that I did not expect to come from Republicans.)
2:18 – Carper it is important to bring down cost not just increase coverage.
2:11 – Kerry brings up the employer mandate issue. He is incredibly concerned that the current bill lacks one. He thinks, like in MA, the bill needs a real employer mandate. Kerry not surprisingly wants to see the excise tax on medical device manufacturers reduced. (His state has a large medical device industry.)
2:06 – Cornyn the bill takes some steps in the right direct. It needs to do more about cutting waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicare. This bill could in fact make things worse. It would cut Medicare and increase premiums. (Cornyn says it would do many terrible things.)
2:00 – Nelson says people are terrified by the possibility of not having or losing health insurance. He read four letters sent to him by individual’s screwed over by the insurance companies.
1:57 – Enzi, this bill fails to address the most important issue which is to lower cost for regular people. Enzi claims the bill will increase cost by mandating insurance companies in fact cover health care expenses. He is against the Medicaid expansion and the new taxes.
1:51 – Wyden is still pushing for a way to increase choice and maybe get a much watered down version of his free choice amendment in the final bill. He has been working with Baucus on something. Wyden is voting to advance the bill forward.
1:48 – Schumer and Elmendorf have some confusion about how many few people would be insured with changes to the individual mandate.
1:42 – Schumer, “this is a good bill.” The bill can be improved and he plans to continue to fight to make those changes. It is important that his bill helps move the country away from the fee for service system.
Schumer the bill must have a public option. It is the best way to reduce cost.
Schumer also believes the excise tax should be changed to protect people who have dangerous jobs that drive up premiums. Schumer is no fan of the individual mandate. It should be the job of insurance companies to make health care affordable not individuals to buy their product at any cost.
1:37 – Ensign is hammering on that the high end health insurance excise tax is not indexed for medical inflation. Over time more and more plans would probably be over the excise tax threshold. Surprise Surpise, Ensign joins the chorus of Republicans jumping on the fact that the CBO did not project what would happen to overall health care costs.
Ensign is now talking about the CBO letter which predicts that extreme tort reform would save the government around $50 billion. He calls it a real way to bring down cost.
1:36 – Schumer deferred a chance to speak again. (Has Schumer been replaced with a pod person?)
1:32 – Stabenow stress the positive changes the bill would make. It would make Medicaid a real safety net and would insure that women on the individual market can get coverage for maternity care. People can no longer be charged more or denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
She does an interesting job of explaining how reform will help someone at several steps starting from their birth.
1:31 – Schumer deferred to Stabenow to speak. (Has Schumer ever turned down a chance to speak ever?)
1:25 – Roberts is making the case that the CBO score is useless because Congress almost never let scheduled spending cuts or tax changes fully go into effect. (The argument is not without merit, but it is impossible to ever model what future Congresses might do.) Roberts claims the future decision by the new Medicare commission might eventually hurt people on Medicare.
1:19 – Crapo joins Bunning on his theme that the tax credits are not technically tax credits. They are not technically reductions in taxes collect but money spent by the government. Crapo is listing all the different revenue sources. It seems his goal is to depect the bill as a bunch of new tax increases.
1:13 – Bunning is making the case that the affordability tax credits on the exchange are not really a tax cut because for many people it would exceed their income tax burden (note: most people pay way more in pay roll taxes on their income than they do on the technical “income tax.”)
1:06 – Cantwell thinks the bill does a lot of good things but needs to be improved. Cantwell attacks the rapidly rising profits in the health insurance industry and the huge amount they spend on lobbying. “That is 6 lobbyists for every member of congress.”
Cantwell slams the Republicans for not putting forward real proposals for making health care affordable. This bill today is at least a downpayment.
1:05 – Cantwell walks in and gets a happy birthday sung to her (It seems like everyone in the SFC had a birthday in Sept or Oct. Watching the hearings I’ve had to listen to some pretty poorly sung versions of ‘Happy Birthday’.)
1:00 – Kyl attacks the cuts to Medicare. He claims the bill will led to “rationing.” The bill should be rejected.
12:59 – Baucus is clearly pleased to have Snowe support and said her statement here will be remembered.
12:56 – Snowe will vote to report the bill out of committee. She does it with reservations. She is worried about how the bill will eventually be combined with other bills and that it must maintain a good CBO score. “My vote today is my vote today,” it may not be the same tomorrow.
12:48 – Snowe thanks Baucus for the way he has led the process. As we contemplate are actions today we should contemplate the decades of inaction. Snowe list the many problems facing our current system. She calls it a Titanic we know is heading for an iceberg.
Snowe says the mark produces some bipartisan reforms. Ending pre-existing conditions, creates exchanges which would be a marketplace that would reduce prices, etc… Snowe thinks offering national plans across state line is very important.
“Affordablity remains and continues to remain my pariment concern.” Snowe says they must continue to work to make sure every Americans has afford health insurance.
12:42 – Conrad attacks the idea of a public option tied to Medicare rates. His state has the second lowest Medicare reimbursement. He is angry that for 23 years he has only gotten Medicare reimbursement rates changed once. He says a public option tied to Medicare rates would have serious consequences for his state. It would threaten the viability of hospitals and doctors in rural states.
Conrad, “A public option tied to Medicare rates is a non-start with me.”
12:37 – Hatch – One of the main reason behind the call for reform is the sky rocking increase in premiums. He joins the chorus of Republicans complaining that the CBO has not done a study on the impact on premiums.
12:32 – Rockefeller will divide his closing statements in half.
Health care reform is about making people’s lives better. It is about eliminating the fear that one illness could send someone over the edge.
Rockefeller still feels the bill falls short of what is needed. He stress that this is a step in the right direction but this is not universal coverage. It is wrong to leave some many million uncovered.
12:27 – Grassley is reading through all the statistics from the CBO score of the bill for some reason. He called the bill the largest cuts to Medicare in history and the largest expansion of Medicaid in history.
12:26- Baucus – This completes for first round of five minute statements
12:14 – Lincoln sounds fairly happy with the Baucus bill. The positive CBO score was very important.
Lincoln’s statement does not really address the changes the bill would make, but instead focuses on the many problems in our current system. Her message is that our current system is broken and unsustainable. It heavily focusing on the health care problems in her state in Arkansas. “The cost of doing nothing is too high.”
Lincoln said that her support today does not insure her support for a later bill that deviates far from the current bill put together by Baucus.
12:08 – Carper believes passing this bill would begin to move the country to a better health care system. Carper brings up the famous moment when Conrad had Elmendorf say that the other health care bills would not bend the cost curve. Carper thinks it is critical that a health care reform bill would bend the cost curve. He praises the many changes the bill would make that should hopefully reduce health care cost system wide.
12:02 – Menendez says he will vote for the bill because it goes a long way in the right direction. He promises to continue to try to add a public health insurance option at some point later in the process. Menendez stresses the help it would provide to children. He is disappointed that it does not go far enough to provide affordable coverage for all. Like some other Democratic committee members, he attacks the “deeply flawed” AHIP studyand says it is proof of the need for a public option.
11:56 – Cornyn joins the chorus of Republicans pointing out that the CBO has not determined if the bill will increase or decrease the nations overall spending on health care. Cornyn argues that the changes will drive up premiums for individual.
11:49 – Bill Nelson is making the case that the “hidden tax” of cost shifting from uncompensated care for the uninsured is causing the real increase in premiums. Nelson also attacks the AHIP “study”. (Sounds like this study will be whipping boy of the day for Democrats.)
11:43 – Enzi says people calling him don’t get how we can cut money for Medicare than create a commission to save Medicare. It does not make sense to him either. Enzi, like Crapo, is hitting on the fact that CBO said the bill would bend the federal spending cost curve. It has not said if it would bend the overall spending on health care cost curve.
Enzi is trying to make the case that the new excise tax on the different industries would just be passed on to Americans in higher health insurance premiums.
11:37 – Wyden thanks Chairman Baucus for reaching out to him over the weekend to work on ways to increase consumer choice. (Sounds like there must have been a lot of last minute wooing to try to win Wyden’s vote in committee.) Wyden is disappointed that even by 2019 only a small segment of Americans would have consumer choice on the new exchanges.
Wyden thinks that a lot more work needs to be done to make health care more affordable for middleclass Americans.
11:29 – Ensign wants to take some time to talk about the “losers” in this bill. They include people on Medicare Advantage, anyone with a HSA, people from states with finance problems, etc… He claims this will uses Medicare as a “piggy bank” to pay for the uninsured. He hammers hard on the changes to Medicare Advantage.
He claims the tax on high end health care plans will eventually turn into a tax on almost all employer provide health insurance. (There is some truth to this because it is not indexed to medical inflation.)
It sounds like there is not a part of the bill Ensign is not against. He is against the taxes, expansion of Medicaid, changes to Medicare, individual mandate, etc…
11:25 – Roberts says he is against the bill. He claims some will support it because it is the “moderate” bill compared to the HELP Committee or the House. He warns them that this will not be the final bill. It will be moved dramatically to the left going forward. He claims a vote for this bill is a vote for a future more liberal bill.
11:19 – Crapo asks Elmendorf if the CBO studied the effect on premiums to regular Americans. Elmendorf says that has not been analyzed. Elmendorf makes it clear that the CBO only scored that the bill would bend the cost curve for the federal government, but not for the whole health care system. That was not studied by the CBO.
Crapo got Elmendorf to agree that this bill would increase net federal spending on health care with the spending offset by taxes.
11:10 – Bunning says this bill is “clearly not the answer.” He attacks the bill from the left!?! for leaving 25 million uninsured. He mocks Democrats for calling 40 million uninsured Americans a serious moral problem, but than crafting a bill for leaving millions without insurance.
Bunning attacks every other aspect of the bill from left, right and center. He attacks the cuts to Medicare and the new taxes. He agrees with Nancy Pelosi!?! when she said that, the savings from this bill will come off the backs of the middleclass.
He is also furious that his amendment on protecting the VA system was gutted by being turned into a study.
Baucus claim the changes were made to Bunning’s amendment was a result of the CBO being unable to score it.
11:05 – Kerry has serious concerns by the lack of an employer mandate and will continue to try to get one added to the bill. Kerry calls the AHIP study yesterday a powerful argument for a public plan. He than rips the the PwC study paid for by the AHIP for being filled with errors and for overlooking most of the important parts of the bill. Point by point Kerry attacks the AHIP study.
10:54 – Kyl begins by attacking the individual mandate excise tax. He points out a technical problem with the CBO scoring in regards to language in the bill and the effect of a technical correction document sent to the CBO by committee staff. Kyl is arguing that the CBO is not correct because it was not based on the exact language in the bill.
Baucus believes this argument is absurd. These technical corrections and clarifications happen in every bill and CBO score. Kyl and Baucus get into a heated exchange. The issue is would the fine for not having insurance be indexed to inflation or not. Kyl claims this is not a small correction but a serious change.
10:49 – Bingaman begins by asking a question about the excise tax on high end insurance plans. He believes it is important to bend the cost curve. Elmendorf says excise tax is an important part of pushing down on overall health care spending. Barthold Chief of Staff at JCT answers that the excise tax should result in a restructuring of employer provided health insurance benefits.
10:44 – Snowe begins by asking CBO director Elmendorf how to go forward with drafting and combining the bill so it maintains the bill’s current score. Snowe is worried that there could be serious changes in the score as the bill advances.
10:38 – Conrad claims Baucus did a great job writing the bill. Conrad says doing nothing is not an option. The nation is on a trend line to soaring national debt, increased premiums, and increased number of uninsured.
Conrad focusing mainly on the budget aspect of reform. It bends the cost curve. It saves money and is fully paid for.
After focusing on the cost, he than list the many improvements on the personal level. He also stress what is not in the bill. No government plan. No coverage for illegal immigrants. No cuts to Medicare.
10:30 – Hatch is disappointed that there will be another “divided vote.” He implies the committee process has been a sham and that the real bill is being written right now behind closed doors. (ironic giving that Hatch was part of the secret gang of seven who tried to write the bill behind closed doors)
Hatch goes on that attack. He claims the bill could increase premiums and would prevent people from keeping their current coverage. He attacks the changes to Medicare Advantage and claims the new taxes would in fact hit people making below $250,000.
Baucus tries cuts Hatch off half way through his remarks because this is only the 5 min opening statements. He does let Hatch finish his statement on the new taxes.
10:25 – Rockefeller after thanking Baucus, he begins by attacking the health insurance companies and their “study.” Rockefeller believes health insurance companies have been “laughing all the way to the bank.”
10:19 – Grassley begins his statement by thanking Baucus for the way he handled the process. He says there is a lot in the bill which does have consensus, but still points of disagreement.
Grassley next hightlights his many concerns. He has problem with the government being able to defining minimum benefits. He is against the tighter rating bands. Grassley believes new taxes will cause premium increase.
Grassley claims the “rug was pulled out from under him” and someone else killed the bipartisan talks. He does not beleive Baucus is responsible for the breakdown in bipartisan talks.
10:13 – Baucus calls the meeting to order. He explains the long process by which he wrote the bill. Baucus explains the many benefits from his bill. They include: increasing the number of insured Americans to 94%. Reducing drug prices for seniors. Ending the practice of pre-existing conditions and dropping coverage. Baucus called this now the time to get something done.
Finally the long waited Baucus Bill will be voted on in committee. Months of delay and set backs have pushed back this vote. The hearing was set to start at 10:00 am. The actually vote is expected around 2:00 pm.





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Thanks for this Jon. I was hoping there would be a liveblog. I’ll keep an eye on it sporadically as I am able today.
By the way, I called Sen. Kerry’s office this morning urging him to vote no. I told his staffer that the process has been deeply flawed and that Kerry should have been one of the Senators writing the bill, not excluded from participation. I continued by saying that the strongest argument against the bill was made by AHIP yesterday. The Baucus bill does not adequately restrain industry abuses and they intend to hold the country hostage. Especially those of us with employer based insurance that we DON’T like, but will have no alternatives as we watch our rates skyrocket.
I realize I am tilting at windmills, but I hope if enough people make a fuss about the AHIP blackmail note, that maybe Rockefeller and Wyden and another Dem or two will put a stop to this awful bill today.
Go get em Sen Rockefeller.
thanks phred, i agree 100%.
Senators: Please, please, PLEASE speak up now. We The People have certainly tried to be heard and we all know this vote is just another dog and pony show. Show it up for what it is!
Cat In Seattle
Sorry for the OT, but it looks like the Supremes are gonna exonerate Skilling.
They’re claiming flawed legal theories. They didn’t include the fact that Skilling was a member of the aristocracy and therefore laws don’t apply to him.
Orphin Hatch: “Warns that the real bill will be written in “the dark corners” of the Capitol. I assume the lighting in the Majority Leader’s office will in fact be ample”
Yeah, just as transparent as the Bush administration.
Sen from Utah “As I’ve said before” Senator it was BS then and it is BS now.
cspan realplayer direct link
What are those signs all about?
He’s got that right.
“The Baucus bill does not adequately restrain industry abuses and they intend to hold the country hostage. Especially those of us with employer based insurance that we DON’T like, but will have no alternatives as we watch our rates skyrocket.”
It took 100 years for civil rights legislation to address state sponsored segregation/discrimination after emancipation. TO trust corporate aristocrats to protect the constitutional rights of Americans from abuses by insurance corporations, is delusional!!!! You are right, what is the mechanism to enforce????
Conrad sez “if we fail to do nothing…” Gotta luv those literate senators.
Maybe he is saying he really wants to do nothing.
amen.
have i mentioned how much i hate the dems? the republicans are batshit crazy, but the dems are in the pocket of FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate) corporations.
Listening to Rockefeller looks like he’s going to vote for this piece of shit.
Sad – I had hoped he would have the balls to vote no on it -
With that kind of twisted language, impossible to tell what he meant.
healthcare for insurance companies. complements of congress and paid for by us.
Snowe’s voting yes.
Snowe sounds so negative about this
No government plan. No coverage for illegal immigrants.
Must. Not. Upset. Crazy. Dumbassed. Teabaggers.
Ha, Elliot!
Bingamon a definite yes.
t
ha Ha!! :)
“Asselephants,” the corporate aristocrats referred to by Uwe this morning. The ones Jefferson warned of….less concerned with protecting rights, more concerned with usurpation of law to protect corporate profit, and their self interests
Why not use the “tax code” to control the behavior of health insurance corporations? Speaking of behavioral responses!
Big assumption.
I know, but can’t see any other reason why they’d take the case.
Added on edit: and also because the decidedly pro-business SCOTUS.
Using the tax code to compel individuals to enter into contracts with insurance corporations!!! @#$% YOU! What a “bleeping” racket!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, selese!
OH, oh. Kyl just said When- then If we adopt this proposal today.
“
It’s a keeper! George Bush is alive and well and living in South Dakota.
Once Skilling has been rehabilitated, and handsomely compensated for the grave injustice done to him, as well as the untold suffering he has endured … we may well expect that President Obama, following the example of the Supreme Court in treating Mr. Skilling as he truly deserves, will start to pal around with GWB, to repair the clearly unjust and unreasonable blame being unkindly levied against former President Bush (politically inspired by the now naked far left bloggers,who were recently urged to “take off your pajamas and get real …”).
Not only is there a different Law for the elite, but, also, true bipartisanship begins at the top, that is where the spoils are divvied up.
THAT is the way the American political system actually works.
Cynical is it not?
Kyl: Wahhhhh! Not fair! Not Fair! Waaaaah!
Baucus: I thought you might say that.
Max the Taxman is a worm…….
The more I find out about Grassley the less I like him. I gather that he is a member of the C st. Family. I read his screeds about how whatever goes wrong is someone else’s fault. Now this bit about the government shouldn’t put in basic requirements (If not We the People, then whom? The insurance companies?!!!) He apparently considers the insurance company study to be valid.
What is wrong with the man? Is it age?
Once Skilling has been rehabilitated
“I mean, I MEAN, I’m just sittin’ on the Bench. Just SITTIN’ here on the Group W Bench…”
His stellar political position is exceeded only by his stunning good looks. (Do I need to put /s?)
Kyl is working hard to try to delegitimize vote .
FINE AMERICANS FOR FAILING TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS WITH CORPORATIONS?
What is wrong with these people………….
you are most welcome.
misery loves company and listening to this hearing makes me quite miserable.
i probably should go listen to uwe reinhardt as jamesjoyce recommended.
.. not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem..
leave it to kerry to bring back the 60s, back when he told it like it was
better than nothing i guess
Kerry will vote for it.
At least Kerry attacks AHIP and echos Weiner saying that AHIP’s reports is a good reason FOR the Public Option….good man
Kerry takes full advantage of AHIP to bloviate.
Time to re-visit Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company.
http://www.ratical.org/corporations/SCvSPR1886.html
kerry up.
my senator sounds like an idiot. he better vote no.
Innocence abroad in the land?
Pure as the driven snow-job, you betcha, War …
“(Sob!) I was just caught up in events, gosh golly! Gee whiz!!!”
(Go for the bubbles! Go for the fizz!)
;~DW
Not age, stupidity, plain and simple. Grassley is not very bright.
right on, kerry. .. every now and then…..
…would confirm what that “little voice” in your head and heart tells you Selise!
Heh heh!
:) Yes….. was this very reason why Jefferson and Madison wanted restrictions on corporate identity written into the Bill Of Rights? Monied interests with undue influence on policy makers?
Is this not where we are at again, being play you right before us here in Health care?
sure. so the insurance companies have a dumping ground for the most sick and expensive. mechanism to enhance corporate profits, yeah!
… i’m not immune to the need for refuge from private for profit insurance companies. but let’s not pretend any of the pos under consideration will do much of anything about costs. obamacare will cost more.
I second James Joyce, War.
;~)
bunning, more paranoia right wing screed
how do these dumb guys make so much money?
1.8 TRILLION Dollars! Whew! I wonder who’s ass he pulled that out of.
agreed.
Bunning sounds like a second grade reader.
Good for you Senator. No all you have to do is vote NO to help get us to a public plan. C’mon, you know you want to…
as much as I want reform, I sure hope this bill tanks so that we can actually start over.
if our congress, and this committee in particular, cared one whit about healthcare costs they would have been asking the cbo to score their bills for total national healthcare expenditures (including to fed, state & local, households and employers) and not just fed costs.
idiots.
some background here:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/5899
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/5900
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/5749
drsteveb:
Thanks, Jon, keep it up. Watching through my fingers. When do you think they will vote?
I hope this fails today.. against hope.
They are talking about a second round of bloviating.
He attacks the bill from the left!?!
Aw, is he wearing his widdle pjs? /s
my apologies for the rants. i just find the whole thing so frustrating. chris floyd captures my pov well in a recent post:
wow. they admit no proper cbo score. so wtf are they doing voting on a bill without it?
back door room deals with Baucus and the WH.
imo weak po is likely to be worse than no po.
a failed po (one that fails to control costs) will be used as evidence that gov run health insurance does not work. therefore no single payer, no strong po. put a stake right through their hearts.
please consider the risks when advocating for a weak po. that is all i ask.
At this rate, it’ll be another 3 hours.
you can just do that math” ???
yeah, fuzzy math
No need to apologize to me. Chris Floyd is right–sad but true. The trick is HOW to work in the unreal to get real things done AS WELL AS making the process closer to reality.
You got have a strong stomach to listen to these hearings.
yes.
Roberts just said that he will vote against this bill, but that he know many of his committee colleagues will vote for it. Then he gave Crapo the ugly eye, and Crapo smiled.
What happens if this vote fails?
oh, screw you Roberts
With the PO, the devil is in details. One little detail can do the opposite of it’s intent. sickening.
via kansas, cowboy metaphors!
Oh, rattlesnakes and scorpions!
I drive my pickup. But Roberts rides his.
The esteemed Senator Ensign calls everyone losers.
good call.
imo, we have to support grass roots efforts to gain public support for single payer hr 676. even republicans, when told about it, are supportive. it’s a marathon, but it doesn’t get any shorter by continuing to be distracted by the dems efforts to protect ahip and the funding they provide.
iow, anti-corp populism — not incomprehensible technocratic elite proposals.
ymmv.
Is it possible to give an accurate cbo score? I don’t think so. Much of what will happens in the future is speculative and variable. What will cost savings be from electronic record keeping, team approaches etc.?
While I agree with you, the bill from the finance committee is terrible and needs to be thrown out the window so we can start with a robust and strong PO.
since when is medicare advantage the same as medicare? it’s not, one for profit private, the other public
hate it when they do this propaganda sh-t
This bill is not an alternative……. This bill is continued evisceration of Americans by corporations, under the color of law, by the very players who undermined our rights and liberties, as did Gov. George Wallace in his attempts to perpetuate segregation, usurping the rights of Americans of color. Discrimination under the color of law to protect vested interests at a state level.
This debate sounds the same….. Servitude to insurance corporations under the color of law under fear of tax penalty!
What happens if this vote fails? Really. What happens?
here’s the right wing argument MO
“if you….. and if you…… and IF …… and IF…. and then IF….. you are out of luck — conclusion you’re screwed.
takes one to know one
Back to the House of Representative, the People’s House?
It depends on Reid – he can proceed or require the committee to put out something.
Ensign is a lousy reader.
Republicans know that they have no power, so they’re just using this debate to list out talking points to fuel right wing media. Ensign is taking it to the nth though, listing out every falsehood one after another.
Get ready for a fresh set of misinformation salvos from Reich-wing media.
Wyden!
What a joke. Only Rocky seems to have our backs, and we don’t even know that because we have nothing whatsoever to gauge it by with his never having to prove he cares with a vote.
You know, these people are truly disgusting. They don’t act human. They aren’t willing to excoriate their fellows when they act inhumanely.
I would call them simian except for the hate mail I would get from the really sentient species remaining on the planet.
Is he still worrying about czars? I was watching Democracy Now
Wyden dish out praise…..SOME DISCUSSION WITH BAUCUS THIS WEEKEND? Let’s see.
John Ensign complained about seven new taxes. He’s against. He needs that money to pay off his mistresses.
Wyden is making sure he is going to get his say in the second round, reiterating the DISCUSSION HE HAD WITH BAUCUS OVER THE WEEKEND.
Curious, very curious.
People will die rather than kow-tow to the corporate scumbags, lining their pockets off of our suffering. Listen to Wyden, they are going to “”gut”" America!!! We are going to die anyway!
I thought the next step was the Conference Committee. What do you mean, back to the House?
Does it go to Conference with only the House bills and the Senate HELP bill? Does the Senate Finance Committee then have no input to the final bill?
I’m really trying to understand what the process is here, it’s important to understand the consequences of what a NO votre by this committee would mean.
and legal fees……..
This is a true disgusting representation of Jefferson’s worst fears for the republic! An entire nation subservient to corporate power!
THIRD TIME WYDEN MENTIONS DISCUSSIONS HE HAD WITH BAUCUS OVER THE WEEKEND.
Baucus promised Wyden something over the weekend but he doesn’t trust him deliver. Some newsworthiness coming up it seems.
Orly Taitz is fined $20,000. Says she won’t pay!
completely agree.
many of the po details are in the writing and enforcement of regulations — and that’s a recipe for gaming by the insurance companies lobbyists since they are even more powerful in the behind the scenes detailed regulation writing (and i don’t even want to think about what would happen when/if the republicans in charge).
that’s one of the reasons i think that the battle for a viable working po is a actually a more difficult fight than single payer. one that is even less likely to succeed and with massive risks (mandates, undermining the fight for single payer by teaching the public that gov can’t run a public insurance program), with far less cost savings and one that provides healthcare that is neither universal or comprehensive.
the legislative battle is only a small part of the fight for a viable working po. the regulatory fights are even bigger… and they happen entirely behind closed doors where insurance companies have even more leverage.
i’m no longer someone who thinks the po is the compromise (from sp). not unless we’re talking about the original hacker proposal, and apparently that was never on the table.
No, he’s trying to say everyone loses with this bill.
I hope it fails too…it is a bad bill…
She’s going to the hoosegow.
Bills need to go to the floor of both the senate and the house. There will be the possibility of amendments depending on Reid and maybe McConnell then the floor votes. After both houses pass something it goes to conference and melded into one bill then back to both houses for ratification.
I am not, nor have I ever, advocated for a weak p.o. And I agree everything under consideration by Congress thus far falls short of what is needed. Nonetheless, we can’t have a real debate about what the p.o. must be to constitute a successful first step on the path to real reform as long as we continue to coddle the pinheads on the SFC.
One step at a time. First we need to kill the Baucus bill. Then we keep hammering away piece by piece on the faux-reform proposals. But if we fail to kill the SFC effort, then everything else gets harder.
Enzi is just setting up some more Republican talking points to fight the bill in the riech-wing media. More bullshit.
My 110 for you
According to Kagro, if this bill is killed in committee, then the Senate moves forward with the HELP bill. And Baucus loses what little credibility he has left. That would be a very good thing, since the climate bill will be coming up soon and having an excuse to shunt Baucus off to the side seems like a good thing to me…
Price Waterhouse Coopers admits that Kerry was exactly right.
Nelson appealing the yuckhead mentality? If people only knew how much the American people have already subsidized health care, they would realize it is already subsidized and socialized, for the benefit of corporations! Now, more of the same!
We are dumb!
i didn’t mean for the small non controversial issues. maybe “complete” would have been a better way for me to describe what i want for the big issues like mandates, preventing exclusion for pre-existing conditions, the po. the cbo has scored the costs to fed gov, but not households and other components of total national healthcare expenditures. that’s the info i want, not just the fed budget costs.
They are protecting a “legitimate government interest,” not the American people. Problem is the interest they seek to protect, “government,” is not concerned with protecting rights of Americans. It seeks to protect corporations, as did a King and his cohorts in colonial crime…..
(btw dday has something up at FDL on the PWC report now, The AHIP Freak-Out: PricewaterhouseCoopers Distancing Themselves from Their Own Report)
Conryn following Republican strategy of creating Republican talking points to used in the Reich-wing media.
Alright then, vote fucking NO!
And thanks to foothillsmike, too!
Menendez knows the deal. He was one of the 30 that signed the letter to Reid
ah, i thought maybe you were in favor of the po in hr 3200 or something. my bad and thanks for the correction.
i think that train has left the station since none of the bills are anything close to workable, and yet the cpc, hcan, etc call them “robust” etc. ralphbon lays it out with links in a recent comment: Public Option Sounds Good, But It Could Backfire Badly. right now it seems to me that the fight is to prevent the backlash. ymmv.
wish we were fighting over something like hacker’s original proposal but that was never on the dems’ table.
agree 110%
GO BOB!
Go Sen Menendez give em hell.
With only a couple of exceptions [Rockefeller, Wyden, Kerry, Schumer], this committee looks like the Corral of Losers.
What a bunch of bloviating dolts!!
I wish we were fighting over the details of single payer ; ) But alas, we have to fight the battles we’ve got. So for today, lets kill the Baucus bill and live to fight tomorrow : )
Carper is up. Look at Rockefeller giving him the evil eye.
scarecrow:
When they say the bill provides a net surplus are they saying that the government is making money off of health care?
Did Carper actually say this will make Americans less competitive globally?
inspiring bill moyers from last week re this issue with Rep. Kaptor and Simon JOhnson, in case you missed it. really refrashing
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10092009/watch.html
Don’t know. I find it hard to listen to Carper. He talks with such a lack of passion, he sounds like jr highschool student that doesn’t want to read his “What I did this summer” report in front of the class.
A traitor named Lincoln (Blanche that is)
Blanched Lincoln. Yuch
at this point i wouldn’t even mind fighting over the details of the original hacker proposal (and i think it’s pretty stupid ).
but at some point, imo the crumbs are not worth fighting for and i’d rather support longer term efforts for real solutions — worst case it might move the overton window a bit. and it lends credibility to progressives if we are not associated with policies the public hates. i know though that other people are motivated to fight different fights and that’s ok too.
killing the bill today would be a very good thing regardless of what the next fight is going to be. don’t hear that happening so far in the committee today.
…. i gotta run soon. nice “seeing” you!
lincoln’s accent is forced, used for effect to sedate the GOBs.
not to be trusted
Lincoln’s voting yes.
scuse me but didn’t reinhardt say medicare would NOT be bankrupted in 7 years, that that was bunk? and this is a Dem talkin! FOX must have turned her down for a job.
Blanche is setting up her campaign ad.
—blah blah blah … she goes on and on but she voted against the PO
Shes talking about WHAT SHE DID. what a dick.
pseudo passionate southerner
comfortable with multisyllabic though, step up from W
anyone know who the 6% is that’s not ‘covered”? how does one qualify in that group?
“the ability to shop for coverage”…. we’re all supposed to feel grateful we can shop? even if there’s nothing we can afford to buy?
Isn’t her five minutes up/ Where is the stage hook
wow, I can’t listen to that Bz anymore. I had to switch the channel.
OH YOU FUCKING DICK! BLANCHE JUST DROPPED THAT SHE MIGHT VOTE AGAINST THE FINAL BILL or MAYBE WITH THE FILLIBUSTER. Did I hear that?
I hope she does vote against cloture! Then we’ll know her for her TRUE colors and so will the people of Arkansas. Many of them think of her as a good Dem, so this will out her!
Gawd grASSley needs remedial reading.
Grassely is following the Republican line and generating talking points for the right-wing media.
agreed
Rockefeller hits it out the park and he didn’t even get to finish
(well that’s it for me, gotta go)
Always good to see you too, selise!
Grassley’s middle name is Rancor, Olympia.
one glaring common denominator……………….
discrimination under the color of law, i.e. segregation of risk?
I’m beginning to think this might be a good thing…even if it is for the wrong reasons on their part.
Snowe is voting yes.
So happy to see FDL live blogging!! Now to go read! Thanks guys!
Snow just gave up a committee chairmanship – cudos to her throwing the middle finger to her party.
Olympia quoting Longfellow. She’s as long-winded as Longfellow.
Snowe questions legality of individual mandate? Revisit?
Nelson claiming on MSNBC that it will come out of committee with a 14 to 9 bipartisan vote
Kyl is a lying fearmonger
That sure is old news. *g*
$263 million dollars spent lobbying our elected leaders to craft policy advantageous to corporations?
Since that comes from monies paid by policy holders for health care and is a deductable expence for insurance companies does that mean that it is a healthcare cost?
Hey pups, someone said it above, but I’ll say it again.
As much as we need health care reform, we do not need this bill. I hope rocky and wyden hold firm and that this bill goes down in flames.
It is a legitimate business expense for not for profits and for profits alike, to lobby policy makers, to enslave us! The system is rigged. The corporations which stand to profit considerably, buy access and influence policy, with taxpayer and insured’s money. Meanwhile our contributions are not tax deductible and cannot be expensed out.
anyone who can look at a horse dung pile and say it’s good must really believe in unicorns!
for sure or speculation
With apologies to John Stewart, says Andrea Mitchell of her discussion of SFC, we’ve gotta leave it there….
Stewart rules…so why wasn’t the Big Guy on his show instead of Sleazy Dave?
pile of dung……… love it!
BCBS a tax exempt corporation considered a public charity? Great insurer Senator Nelson????? Talk about a scam!
Just got kicked in the by head by life and now health insurance corporations listed as public charities tax exempt deny coverage while forcing people to go broke! Sounds like corporate servitude/slavery…….
Sure Cornyn? Let go spend trillions of dollars in Iraq to protect who?
Kerry, it is still not affordable lie!
Baucus is SO releaved about Snowe’s support that he’s totally laid back now.
Crapo is following Republican line through this whole hearing which is…
SIMPLY GENERATE TALKING POINTS FOR THE RIGHT_WING MEDIA TO ATTACK REFORM.
Confuse the numbers, frame the short comings etc.
newsflash! :)
Interesting that the conservatives are giving the liberals all the best arguments for why the Baucus bill needs to be fundamentally altered to be more like the HELP and House bills. Ironic?
Isn’t the Military budget a Federal Entitlement for war mongers?
Like this whole Healthcare Reform shouldn’t the Military pay for itself
Makes as much sense to me as Healthcare paying for itself.
So the American taxpayer is responsible for a large % of premiums paid to insurance corporations and providers, for government employees. That taxpayer is now to be taxed in a punitive manner for failing to enter into health insurance contracts with the same tax exempt health insurance corporations, we cannot afford to buy health insurance from, but pay for anyway, for those employed by government, via taxes! This is twisted?
Grassley still trying to scare the oldsters
WHOA! WHAT HAPPENED? Couldn’t get in?
Absolutely. fucking. useless.
Thanks again for the liveblog Jon. Now please pardon me while I go bang my head against the wall for awhile.
Why you banging your head?? Sounds like a Quiet Riot track…
This is a shitty bill from the FIN Committee, maybe they should have blocked it. But it would mess up Obama’s time table to sign something around Christmas (Merry Christmas?). Its going to take a month or so to iron out the actual law that will get voted on, its still shitty.
It will be some really nasty bill that limits access to the public plan or gives access to all without any real reduction in cost (Massachusetts) with mandates.
Single Payer will come about via the States
Jon,
Thank you so much for this — and all your reporting.