There are 51 Senators who will vote for a public option, something 77% of the country wants. It would win a majority in a floor vote. We were told that we needed 60 votes in the Caucus so we’d have a filibuster-proof majority — so that the GOP would never block a bill from getting to the floor. The only reason not to put the HELP Committee public option in the Senate bill is because Joe Lieberman and other “ConservaDems” are conducting a silent filibuster — they won’t say it publicly but they’ll say privately that they will vote with the GOP to filibuster the bill.
That means the Democratic caucus will now filibuster itself.
I only have one thing to say: Don’t even fucking think about it. We were told we had to suck up all manner of corporate whoredom for that 60 vote filibuster proof majority — that’s what we supposedly got in exchange for letting Lieberman have his committee chair, right? Except now I guess he gets all the power and the perks just because you like him, with none of the responsibility to stick with the caucus on procedural votes.
Remember this golden oldie from January 2006?
Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) today declared his intention to vote against the nomination of Judge Samuel Alito for the U.S. Supreme Court. Lieberman said he has too many doubts about Alito’s commitment to individual liberties to confirm the nominee for a lifetime appointment.
How about this one:
Three other Democrats from states Bush won in 2004, Senators Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico, Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Tom Harkin of Iowa, said they will oppose Alito. They cited concerns about his support for expanded presidential power and what they regard as his hostility to lawsuits alleging discrimination.
Lieberman, Bingaman, Harkin and Lincoln all gave George Bush the cloture vote he wanted on Alito. They let him have an up-or-down vote on the floor. And then they took their “principled” vote against him.
I guess the courtesy they’ll offer George Bush’s cretin judges they won’t offer to something 77% of the country wants. So I’ll offer a slight edit of Glenn Greenwald from yesterday:
2004-2006: “You have to wait until we win a Congressional majority in the 2006 midterms.”
2006-2008: “You have to wait until we win the White House in 2008.”
January-May, 2009: “You have to wait until we have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.”
Currently: “You have to wait until until every member of the Democratic caucus agrees on something.”
Either you’re going to enforce caucus discipline or you don’t have a party. You have instead a collection of self-interested narcissists, each one with the ability to derail any legislation they don’t like. Every Senator who derives their political power from membership in the caucus is thereby granted the power to torpedo any piece of legislation from coming to a vote, with no consequences. It’s an outrage.
Every time some clusterfuck like this happens, just enough Senators duck their heads and distribute the blame so that the vulnerable ones don’t have to pay the price. There’s a back room deal to apportion responsibility. They trade off being the bad guy — and they think people are easily fooled as with the Alito cloture vote, when sonorous speeches were given about the careful deliberation that led to a “no” vote on the floor. Anyone paying even remedial attention knew that the cloture vote was the only one that mattered.
So if Reid won’t enforce caucus discipline, if as Majority Leader he now says it’s acceptable to use the “60 vote” threshold to water down the bill, he has to wear it. No matter how he votes personally. No matter how much the White House makes a fetish of bipartisanship and courts Olympia Snowe. No matter what cover anyone else tries to give him.
This time he can’t play “pass the hot potato” and try to assign responsibility to someone who is not vulnerable. Been there, done that.
if Joe Lieberman’s silent filibuster means that the HELP Committee public option is not in the final bill, Reid owns it.
If Blanche Lincon’s unspoken threats mean the opt-out is in the final bill, Reid owns it.
If Ben Nelson’s allegiance to Nebraska insurance brokers means the Finance Committee’s co-ops are in the final bill, Reid owns it.
If the White House says the final bill needs to be the Finance Committee bill so Olympia Snowe is happy, Reid owns it.
If the public option, which the majority of the country and the vast majority of Democrats want doesn’t make it to the floor, Reid owns it.
A new poll shows Reid has a 38% favorable rating in Nevada and a 50% unfavorable. He trails Danny Tarkanian by five points.
Either Harry Reid enforces caucus discipline on this one or it becomes the model for every single piece of legislation that comes before the Senate from hereon in. It guarantees that every piece of Democratic legislation is written by the caucus’s most conservative members. We give the power to the corporations to pick off the whores and write our laws. All they need from hereon in is one.
The Republicans terrorized the Democrats in the Senate in 2004 by taking out the Democratic Majority Leader Tom Daschle. It’s a good model. If that’s what it takes to wake the Democrats up, with Reid’s numbers — and the ensuing outpouring of rage at the destruction of the public option — it shouldn’t be that hard to do.
I don’t care if we have to recruit a Democratic primary challenger. Maybe someone from the Culinary Workers? I don’t care it we have to blitz the Nevada airwaves with ads about Reid’s coziness with DC lobbyists, or maybe how his son — who is running for Governor — just sits back while his father adds $2000 a year to Nevada health insurance premiums at their behest. And I sure don’t fucking care if Danny Tarkanian becomes the next Senator from Nevada, because at that point 60 votes don’t mean anything anyway.
If the Senate combined bill does not include the HELP committee public option, without triggers, opt-outs, co-ops or anything else that makes an already weak proposal weaker, I pledge to do everything in my power to defeat Harry Reid — and his son — in 2010.
If the Senate combined bill allows a filibuster from members of the Democratic caucus and Reid doesn’t strip them of their committee chairmanships, I pledge to do everything in my power to defeat Harry Reid — and his son — in 2010.
If the final bill that emerges from conference does not include a public option because of the threat of a filibuster, silent or otherwise, I pledge to do everything in my power to defeat Harry Reid — and his son — in 2010.
Because health care is a human right, not something to be subject to Rahm Emanuel’s back room deals, Joe Lieberman’s vanity or the Reid family’s political ambitions.
Sign the petition: Tell Harry Reid to stop the silent filibuster.




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Damned right Jane. We need to make Reid own this outcome.
Of course, hopefully, the prospect of owning it will make him responsive to the vast majority of Ds that want a real public option.
In responding to a Senatorial distribute-the-blame strategy, I think a variant of your strategy here could work:
Pick a “likely” filibusterer and simply blame them for filibustering it *now*. Pin all the blame on them now. Make them feel the pressure to deny it. Shift blame to the next individual. Essentially, if they won’t cop to it, pin it on one-of-them anyway. NY landlords use a variant of this to get rent-controlled tenants out of buildings.
I will happily contribute to any plausible primary challenger for this loser.
I could just see Jane pacing the floor listening to the discussion. I could just see Kobe looking on thinking “Oh boy She’s going to hit that keyboard hard today”.
Well done Jane.
Might I make a small suggestion?
When you call Reid’s office to register your disapproval of his whoring out the Senate to the DINOs on the right, make a point of asking the staffer who takes the call what they, personally, will do for a job after Reid loses the election.
Because you know they will take your call, stroke you and not give a damn, remind them we’re not only coming to raise hell with the Reid family’s careers, but that it will also impact theirs.
Just to give them something to think about.
let’s not fool ourselves.
this is happening because this is exactly what obama wants.
snowe and difficult democrats are simply providing him the cover so that he can pass a bill that will make the “stakeholders” happy and then reap the benefits – campaign contributions – down the line.
he’s thinking 2012 and doesn’t give a hoot about what us heathens think.
his guess is that he’ll be able to swamp any and all comers with the massive contributions that will come his way as a result of doing the “stakeholders’” bidding. so who cares if we’re upset or if dems feel betrayed.
and don’t forget the supreme court case that will be decided this term. you know the one that is going to open up the floodgates for corporate contributions. this is one time when obama really is playing multi-dimensional chess. i’m sure he’s had that case and those possible contributions in mind for quite some time.
sucks for all of us peons.
great for him.
Whew! Now that’s one angry Jane! Signed the petition.
Post finance bill vote, the media is spinning the result like a whirlwind. “PO is dead” theme is in full resurrection. Others saying some on the fence Congresscreeps are seeing more merit in the cost control possibilities of a strong PO in wake of the AHIP
blackmail report.
Reid has always been a long running car wreck. Totally limp at the wheel. The Dems seem utterly useless. We need more Weiners and Graysons in Congress
Amen, Jane!!! If he won’t do his job, Reid needs to seek life, elsewhere.
If he fails us on this, I’d rather have a majority under NEW Senate Majority Leader Schumer than a Super-Majority under Reid. How dare he???
Tell us how you really feel, Jane. /g
The Democrats biggest problem has always been the Democrats. The flaccid Harry Reid has always been a poor leader whose own seat is in peril. He has no business leading the senate and should have been thrown overboard long ago.
I promise you he will torpedo the public option and presumable with Durbin’s blessing.
Yeah, I’ve thought those things all along but allowed myself some hope because I got tired of being cynical all the time. What kills me is that there is now, from EVERY quarter, plenty of information to allow even a political neophyte to see the light on ALL this mega-corruption. But the Wall St.-Insurance Co.- Super Bank Cartel is so powerful they don’t even CARE anymore if they are completely exposed. They have absolutely NOTHING to fear.
After today’s developments plus watching Bill Moyers interview with Rep. Kaptur last weekend, it’s hard not to conclude that the nation is starting to burn.
Its high time that we start holding legislators and the WH accountable. Excuses are not acceptable and the consequences must be clear. I also think raising money for a primary challenge against Reid makes sense. ‘Unnamed Democrat’ is looking pretty good in Nevada.
Its also time for the Progressive Caucus to reiterate that any bill without a public option is not acceptable. I don’t believe that Obama has any intention of delivering on his campaign promise unless failure is the alternative. And if Obama doesn’t force the issue, Dodd will have a difficult time, despite the will of the People. Four out of five committees don’t matter when the fifth represents ~3% of the People and the Chairman is one of the chief corporate whores for the healthcare industry.
I swore to myself to avoid this space b/c the anti-Obama-ness makes me nuts. But it was impossible to resist checking in after the vote. Why do you think Durbin is blessing the idea of shit-canning the PO, dwward? That is completely false. Probably the HELP bill comes out of the Senate and passes with a decent (and easily expandable) PO. Medicare + 5% will be the reimbursement rate. Buy-in will be by age, not physical condition. You are winning. Cheer up y’all.
If the PO dies, it might take Reid’s political career with it.
Filibusters are like farts: the silent ones are even more deadly.
Well, why not remind the staffers of that (and ask them their post-election career plans) when people call, as I suggested in 5 upthread?
v. funny!
Any proof of that? All I see is us losing horribly.
Keep Harry Reid’s ass on the wall.
Jane, I love this pledge. You just need to get it on the MSM. Make sure they knwo damn well that we mean it. Block real reform at your own peril.
IF you think I won’t vote green or not at all you’re insane. IT works so much better if we don’t just give the dems our vote.
Carper and Landrieu also took the path of principled non-obstruction, voting for cloture but against the Alito nomination itself:
http://www.senate.gov/legislat…
http://www.senate.gov/legislat…
At least at this point we’re still discussing a PO !
Sorry for the bad links. Here are the cloture and final votes on Alito:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00001
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00002
I have found it absolutely laughable that the GOP have tried to maintain that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are the most liberal triumvirate in the history of the world and they are leading us all down the path to socialism and communism. None of the three are liberals. This notion that Reid is liberal is ridiculous. Reid is also not much of a leader; his spine has erectile dysfunction.
As to the plan to strip any committee or subcommittee chair of their power if they vote to allow a filibuster, I hope that the same applies to Reid. It’s time for him to hike up his big boy panties and act like he belongs in his position of leadership.
Honestly, W and the GOP rammed stuff down our throats without a 60 vote majority for years. Why are Democrats such pussies?
Well I can’t prove what methinks will happen in the future – can you? My view is it will turn out well and FDL will deserve a big portion of the credit. Your view is epic fail. Participatory democracy is work. I’ll check in again when something passes and we can compare notes, eh?
I’m just curious what the White House is thinking right now. They have the health insurance industry stabbing them in the back in advance of the floor vote. Then, they have the hospitals/doctors implying that the White House and Senate Finance Committee bill stabbed them in the back. It looks all the world like their little games blew up early. That may save real reform.
I am speechless, and in my case that is a rare occurrence. I saw Shepard Smith interviewing Senator Bill Nelson on Fox News. To my utter surprise Shepard asked: “How are you going to convince moderate Democrats who are funded largely by the health insurance industry to vote for this bill (presumably assuming it contains a public option. Apparently Fox viewers are unable to understand that, in effect, Shepard just stated that moderate Democrats are bought and owned by the health insurance industry. I find it impossible to believe that Shepard Smith does not understand this.
I’m not understanding the downside. If what you say is true and the HELP committee bill PO up in the final Senate bill, then no trouble for Reid.
If on the other hand every single Democrat speaking to the press means what they say and they intend to let Joe Lieberman et. al. hold the bill hostage with a silent filibuster, relying on the “good intentions” of the Democrats as you propose gets awfully risky.
I’d tell Reid, Baucus, et al to bite me, but I’m afraid it would get infected and I can’t afford the health care.
That’s political courage with a capital “C”. We need to see some of it on the Senate floor, in the cloakroom and dining room, in the hallways and when visiting the Oval Office.
If Reid is badly defeated by a Republican in conservative Utah, we can replace him with a new liberal senator from Ohio. Conservative George Voinovich (R-MasterCard, Society Bank, Cardinal Health) is retiring. Ohio moved blue in 2006 and 2008, a momentum kept up by the leadership Sherrod Brown has shown in supporting health care reform in the Senate. (Brown replaced the execrable Mike DeWine, who is attempting a comeback.)
The flip side of opposing the limp Harry Reid in Utah, then, could be to support the Democratic senate candidate in Ohio. For those worrying about Harry Reid, fear not. He’s a former boxer; as he endlessly tells us, he’s tough. Besides, taxpayers will continue to pick up the tab for his Senate pension and full health care plans regardless of what he legislates for the rest of us.
I need advice. There is a “Organizing for America” person visiting our piece of fly-over country. Should I check it out?
Once, again Jane and FDL are the vanguard of national health care.
here I was thinking all along that it would take 81 Democratic Senators to filibuster themselves. Guess not.
Harry will put up the weakest P.O.S. bill that he possibly can. That’s who he is – hell, it’s like looking in the mirror.
On FISA, he put up the bill which made it out of Committee first (at least that was the excuse he used). Of course, it sucked, but that’s our Harry. A little consistency here, please?
I don’t really want to lose any Democratic seats. How the hell does one *become* the Majority Leader anyway? If it is strictly on seniority, then fuck it, Harry goes down. Can the other members of the party vote his wimpy ass out of the position?
Jane, thank you for all you do for us. You are out there every single day, working, working, working to try to help this country do the right things. We do not always see eye to eye, you and I, but I think you’re awesome.
You get a Blazing Saddles merit badge for that one.
they intimidate him with all of the “reid is a radical liberal” stuff.
it makes it extremely tough for him to take any real liberal positions because he is so terrified of proving them correct. so he almost always defaults to a center-center/right position to prove that he’s no radical lefty.
the bigger question is why dems keep electing timid centrist from fairly centrist states as senate leader. daschle?
they’d be much better off with a true liberal secure in a deep blue state. at least that person could take truly liberal positions without always having to think about tacking to the right.
Will any liberal Senate Democrats join a GOP filibuster against a health “reform” bill without Public Option?
It’s something to consider.
Jane, Again, the question is obvious. WHY should Dem. Senators take us seriously? Because we deserve to be taken seriously? Because we’re genuinely nice people?
These guys play “hardball” for a living. Everyone of them has a lot more in common with each other AND with the money funding lobbyists than he/she does with ANY of us.
Until the Dems. BELIEVE the lifeblood of the party rests with them delivering Healthcare reform WITH a strong public optoion, it’s business as usual. Bottom line, one of the few things these jokers do know is, Progressives have no where else to turn. You want them to listen to you, convince them this is the LAST straw!
I would check it out. The OFA people here in Indiana still speak out in favor of the PO, even if their leader seems a little more wishy-washy.
I agree 100% that health care is a human right. But, under our system, I don’t know how to get legislation guaranteeing this human right without experiencing the frustrations and setbacks that come from backroom deals, vanity and ambition.
Reid is from Nevada not Utah.
Give’em Hell Hamsher!
RRRRAAAWWW!!!!1111
aren’t they the same? ;)
Great post, Jane.
Bye Bye, Harry. Don’t let the Senate door hit you in the ass on the way out…
It’s all Fox News’ fault!
No good skiing in Nevada.
From outrage springs revolution.
Obama backed off on the overseas tax cheats too.
Kos thinks Reid will survive easily.
Perhaps Reid’s references to his days as a boxer are made not to prove he’s tough but to excuse his decisions because he is punch-drunk.
i’m a little confused. is your goal to support the HELP bill because you expect improvement during reconciliation? thanks.
p.s. i’m with you 110% on this one. if reid does not require a roll call cloture vote to either pass the bill or to show who is voting against it, then he deserves to be retired without honor from public life. protecting senators from accountability is completely unacceptable. thank you very much for this.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thanks for all your work and for sharin’ whatchu know with us who don’t. Now, what has really changed in the condition of forces on the battlefield? Obama controls what comes outta the process in the Senate…he controls Reid and he controls Baucus and he can force things to an open filibuster if it comes to that, so I ask again what has changed. Obama owns this whole thing from here on out and the only way his presidency survives a weak bill or no bill is if a majority of Democrats are willin’ to fall on their spears for ‘im like they did in 1994 for Clinton.
Obama needs a bill with a strong public option and he knows it…the folks in the House of Representatives now know that they can survive even if Obama fails in the Senate but only if they hang together and get support from the mass of the grassroots…that’s why I been hammerin’ on buldin’ support for a strong bill in the House .
So how does Reid cover for fascist fellow travelers in his caucus if they try and filibuster this thing silently? Reid can’t take the pressure if he refuses to bring a public option onto the floor in some form, the Democratic Party can’t take the pressure because they will own the failure, and Obama can’t take the pressure because everyone knows he controls the Senate leadership AND the Blue Dog fascist fellow travelers.
So how does this play out? Isn’t this “crunch time” for Obama…don’tcha think that if he is to survive he’s gunna hafta get the Rahma in ObamaRahma to put the squeeze on a few pseudo Democrats in the Senate? And maybe that’s exactly what’s happenin’ this afternoon?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IT AIN’T ABOUT PROCESS ANYMORE!!
Probably the Dems speaking to the press are the least influential. This whole summer of non-fun has been about reimbursement rates to doctors and hospitals and pharma. The insurance companies have been targeted as the useless middlemen they are. Check in with the student lenders to find out what happens to useless, high-cost middlemen in this relatively modern age. They end up as lowly contract servicers. You will deserve a lot of the credit when the PO goes in, but I’m an Obama supporting Chicagoan, so it’s hard for me to give it to you and I’ll credit Ted Kennedy instead.
It can be heavenly. [Spans the border w/ California...]
Helen Thomas at the Commonwealth Club of SF:
thanks for the link.
1. is markos taking jane into account?
2. i don’t give a shit what the polls say, some things are worth doing regardless. enough with the dry powder.
my two cents. ymmv.
Didn’t know that but CA snow sucks. Sierra cement is what it’s called in Utah.
I luv Helen Thomas.
The word has to go out that any democrat impeding the passage of a robust PO will face a robust opposition from the left in their next election!
they’re getting a boatload of it today – big storm.
Jane, you are one hell of a strategist.
I don’t have the antipathy to Reid that many here seem to feel.
But I totalled up the 2007-2008 medical for my extended family and when the total hit $60,000, I realized it was cheaper to start making small ActBlue campaign donations than continue paying the obscene ‘protection money’ being charged by the healthCo despots and their Wall Street, for-profit pals.
I don’t dislike Harry Reid.
It’s simply that I can’t afford the butt-covering bullshit in the Senate.
It’s cheaper — AND it’s psychologically more healthy for me! — to make small campaign contributions via ActBlue than continue to be furious about the predatory, profit-driven system we have now.
We certainly don’t have the power to defeat Reid on our own. We’d just be joining an already large crew of people who want to see him out of office.
That wrap-around where the left and the right join together to call you a piece of shit owned by DC lobbyists is just deadly. It’s media catnip. It’ll fuel a rash of Tarkanian ads: “even members of his own party think…”
Wanna see me & Erick Erickson issue a joint statement of agreement that the Reids are corrupt hacks dragging the country down? I’ll fucking whip Democratic endorsements for Tarkanian, too. Then spend my days pushing the story to the Nevada press.
That ought to spawn a consistent flow of headlines.
maybe bernie sanders? i think that was his position during the HELP committee mark ups?
still think there should be a roll call vote regardless. let’s know where everyone stands when it comes time to vote.
Go Helen!
I totally agree, and signed Jane’s petition.
Kos isn’t arguing with Jane, he’s just pointing out the facts on the electorate.
Jane: I only have one thing to say: Don’t even fucking think about it.
Jane Hamsher speaks for me ! If a strong PO fails to pass, I will join many in Nevada to work for Harry Reid’s opponent.
Yeah, but probably not the kind of headlines you like… here’s an example – Jane Hamsher goes nuts and endorses a basketball playing republican for the Senate – no, not THAT one, the OTHER one!
Looks like they have some snow on the ground at Alta too.
If the Senate combined bill does not include the HELP committee public option, without triggers, opt-outs, co-ops or anything else that makes an already weak proposal weaker, I pledge to do everything in my power to defeat Harry Reid — and his son — in 2010.
If the Senate combined bill allows a filibuster from members of the Democratic caucus and Reid doesn’t strip them of their committee chairmanships, I pledge to do everything in my power to defeat Harry Reid — and his son — in 2010.
If the final bill that emerges from conference does not include a public option because of the threat of a filibuster, silent or otherwise, I pledge to do everything in my power to defeat Harry Reid — and his son — in 2010.
MY LIEGE! MY LIEGE! JANE, MY LIEGE1
Cognac and fresh horses for the men; for tonight, we ride! And come morning, we either bathe in its sunrise in victory or shiver in the cold dawn of defeat.
This is our time, this is our battle. This is our destiny and our future legacy.
If Reid sells out, and I agree this is likely, although most of the sellout will be in the fine print it will cost the Dems 5 seats in the Senate and 15-25 in house in 2010. The fools in the Senate who don’t see that are so sold on the belief that the left is stuck with them. However, this time they are wrong. This will probably even cost Obama in ’12 since there will likely be a “Nader II” pushing the line that there is no difference between the parties.
However, just getting a PO won’t save the Dem’s since they structured things again with the costs up front and the benefits sometime in the future. Bunch of fucking idiots.
Citizen Hamsher:
Reid can be defeated in Nevada easily but that isn’t the threat that is most persuasive to the bastard…Obama OWNS One Hung Harry and if Obama says get a PO to the floor he will get a PO to the floor…ObamaRahma has nowhere to hide from here on out. Unlike Clinton, he can not triangulate with the fascists to marginalize Democrats and still govern or even survive until 2012. Obama’s and indeed the country’s fate lies with the progressive Democrats and the public option…Obama knows it, you know it and I know it…so when does he come outta the closet on this thing?
Jane, I’ll pledge with you. I will do anything I can to see that Reid is defeated. If he doesn’t lose his seat, we must push very hard to take him down as leader. He is such a pathetic loser and is hurting us badly. I will e-mail him today for a start.
A modern day JFK (where is one?) would author “Profiles in Kleptocracy, A Story of Today’s Governance in The USA”
Since you ask, somebody ought to be issuing statements about those zombie lobbyists, that are probably hated by everyone anyway. We might need statements about angry, out-of control, vicious, hiding behind Anonymity, disrespectful bloggers. These blogging maniacs actually refuse to accept the corporate “frame” of the debate, such as it is.
Fox Noise, the Worst, CNN turning Neo-con, MSNBC the Corporate Benchmark.
Citizen realworld:
If Reid sells out on this it is because Obama told ‘im to…Obama owns this entire mess and will suffer the consequences…Obama still, at this moment, has the chops to make real reform happen and everyone knows it.
Nader 11 might be Howard Dean.
Jane, you’re both right and righteous.
A couple of years ago, I wrote a post for Howie Klein that he put up at Down With Tyranny, asking questions about the filibuster. Genuinely asking, since I’m not versed in Senate arcana, and because I wanted to get the answers from people who were, not just by googling and wikiing. Total responses to my post, one… and that one was spam!
Well, I still have the same questions. Number one is, Why Not Make Them REALLY Filibuster? You know, stand up and talk for endless hours. Bring in the cots, put on the Depends, gas up the place. This never happens anymore, because of a procedural change that gave us the silent filibuster, and the almost-never-attained 60-vote “majority.”
When Senators actually have to get up and filibuster (in its old meaning of “talk endlessly”) they run the risk of making total fools of themselves. In the case of Republicans, that risk is 100%. It would also be 100% for any Democrat rotten enough to enable a filibuster.
I’d like to see stats about how often filibusters (in the new meaning of lose on cloture… minority wins) happen these days, compared with the old days. My guess is that it was close to an ultimate weapon then, not often deployed. Now, it’s just too easy to stop a bill cold, or water it down until it’s the usual thin soup.
So the question is, what’s stopping Harry Reid, or the Democratic majority, from bringing back the REAL filibuster? And the other questions follow from that. Wouldn’t it benefit the Democrats by getting their legislation passed more easily and more often, and without endless compromise? (That’s making the generous assumption that the Democrats actually WANT to pass progressive bills.) And if the places were reversed — if our side opposed some miserable giveaway, say — wouldn’t it be good to have our arguments presented unfiltered in a filibuster? After all, our arguments actually stand up to scrutiny. A filibuster by today’s Republicans would expose them as the bullshit artists they are.
Getting that cloture vote is crucial — but it would be a hell of a lot easier if the obstructionists had something to lose.
Besides, Jimmy Stewart! Jefferson Smith! The Capitol Dome!
That would be a very big book.
Re your appearance yesterday on ABC. (Great stuff, btw.) Got me thinking. It’s time for progressives to (straight up) stop identifying as Democrats. To the extent members of that party align with our positions, then we will support them. However, the reverse must also be true. Holding Reid’s feet to the fire is a most excellent example of this approach. No more free rides for any of them. We must make it abundantly clear: Do the job you were elected to do or you’re getting kicked off the bus. No exceptions.
Citizen Loo Hoo:
Howard Dean is indeed a viable option to Obama should the Darkman fail to deliver…but don’t even mention the “N” word in the same paragraph with Howard Dean…Ralph Nader couldn’t hold Howard Dean’s jockstrap.
“so when does he come outta the closet on this thing?”
I ain’t holdin’ my breath on that one. Fact is, I’m pretty thoroughly disillusioned at this point. BO can still change my mind on that one, but he needs to stop playing fascist footsie and get to work if he wants that to happen.
Make no mistake.
None of this is happening without the blessing of the White House, either. For those of you who back Obama, and say, you can’t have everything at once, and be patient.
YOU’RE WRONG!! AND WE’VE BEEN ROLLED!
Real change is not happening, and by all indications, it won’t. I’m thinking we need a new prez in 2012.
No public option? No end to war? No regulation of corporations/banks?
VOTE THEM ALL OUT!! Say NO to incumbency!
And thank you Jane for giving this the attention it deserves.
I’m sure Dean would just love that image….
Senator Reid,
If you lie down with dogs, you’ll get up with fleas. Let Lieberman pull a silent filibuster and we’ll be in your face.. Let anybody else filibuster w/o acknowledging it and we’ll think it’s Lieberman and we’ll still be in your face. If you allow these shenanigans to succeed, as God is my witness, I will contribute to your opponent regardless of what party your opponent come from.
Except that Mr. Dean has announced that he is ok with state opt-outs, and no public option. I don’t see how he’s any better than the rest.
I associate myself with the remarks of the not-so-gentle woman from FDL.
I pledge too, Jane. It’s all so overwhelming, this corporate take-over of the government.
But I can focus on one name: Reid. If the conditions you raise aren’t met, I too promise to do everything I can to support your work to defeat Harry Reid, and his son, in 2010.
Citizen ackack:
Dean’s qualifier for the “narrow” opt-out was that it was attached to a real medicare plus public option…if that bill became law the opt-out wouldn’t hurt it for a moment… don’t drink the KoolAid
something else i’ve been wondering…..
it may not work the way i think for budget bills, but i remember dec 17 2007 when dodd threatened to filibuster telco immunity. although the senate bill contained immunity dodd had submitted an amendment to strip that provision from the bill. the important action he took, on his own volition because he said he didn’t have any aides with him to advise, was to object to the UC that all amendments would be considered for approval with a 60 vote threshold. dodd argued that his amendment was germane to the bill and so, by senate rules only required 50 votes for passage.
the senate went into recess while the parliamentarian was consulted, and reid ended up pulling the bill — that day. later in 2008 dodd caved and he agreed to the UC that his amendment would require 60 votes for passage. but that day in dec was awesome.
anyway, i wonder, if reid does bring a bill to the floor without a po, would an amendment to include one be considered germane (and so require only a simple majority to pass if senate rules are followed unless by UC)? or better yet, if there is a po could a better one be brought up by amendment for a simple majority vote to pass?
for the parliamentarians among you, here is the link to some notes i made about that vote and posted at emptywheel:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/not-just-immunity/#comment-48310
(i’m not even a supporter of the HELP committee po, but can’t help wanting lend a bit of a hand in support of the majority position)
ok
i think (from reading lots of kagro x back in the nuclear option days – he wrote a 23 part series on it) it could be done without abuse of power by changing the senate rules at the start of the 112th congress with just a majority vote. not a bad idea to start pushing now if that’s the case and you want it done.
Agree!
Nope, I’m urging the PO in the HELP bill be in the Senate bill because the alternative is worse.
I’m confused. Why do you support the Baucus bill? Didn’t see that coming.
First, mentioning Danny Tarkanian as anything but a joke doesn’t make much sense in Nevada politics. The name goes back to the towel days of UNLV basketball dominance, hot tubs, hookers, coke, and player payoffs. Good times. He *always* polls well on the name and then loses the election. If he makes it out of the primary over Lowden, Harry’s totally safe. Lowden *might* make a credible run of it. Reid killed Yucca and there are some water issues coming up, he’s going to be tough to beat IMO.
Second, I don’t disagree that I’d like to see some party discipline imposed. My question is what recourse Reid – or any other majority leader – has to specifically force another Senator to vote one way or the other? I mean, it’s all well and good to say “Reid owns it”, but it seems like it would be far more helpful to describe in detail what parliamentary actions Reid could take to accomplish what you demand of him. If there is a direct threat or quid-pro-quo stated/implied to compel a specific vote, isn’t that technically against the law?
Honestly, if there wasn’t a huge lack of trust, a very legitimate way to proceed would be to get the stuff that’s missing from the House plan into the merged Senate bill and vice versa. Then drop the final reconciled bill out of committee with the best of both including the public option. I think under those circumstances if there is to be a filibuster they actually have to talk until they are blue in the face to stop a vote (where at this point they can do it procedurally … something to do with the ability to propose amendments or something). If I don’t have the procedure wrong (lord knows I’m no expert), from watching Reid fight Yucca for more than a decade, that’s more his style; it’s achieving the goal that matters not “winning” any specific action. Of course, there just isn’t any trust at this point … so going that route is rough to swallow.
Really curious if anyone knows what power Reid has to actually “impose party discipline” though. Every time I think “damn, I wish he’d do [X]” … it turns out that’s not how things work.
got it. thanks.
I’ll take that chance.
Perhaps the HELP Senate bill and the HR3200 will merge into something workable – I believe that would pass the Senate with 62 votes, good enough. The best outcome would be all the uninsured in the country have a checkup and some follow up care scheduled (if necessary) by year-end. Why not?
yikes no! i don’t like either of them (and am of the opinion that a weak po may be worse than none).
still, if i have info or an idea that may be of use to you… i’m gonna share.
so was just trying to think through options (besides going after reid) if the bill is brought to the senate floor with no po (or one you find unacceptable). a germane amendment on the senate floor might get you a po (or a better po) via simple majority vote.
procedural options that might be of use to you. that is all.
An edit screwed up my formatting. There are supposed to be a few paragraphs in that comment … tarnation! Sorry for the scrum.
Okay, but the result may be endless rivers of ‘politics making strange bedfellows’ articles – could get quite tiresome and dilute your brand.
AHIP Talking Points.
addition. i should have written:
a germane amendment on the senate floor might get you a po (or a better po) via simple majority vote if followed by objections to any UC to require 60 votes for passage.
Been saying it for years (not that you have not). That is why I get f+uckin pissed when people say wait or give it time.
They trade off who the bad guy will be, and the have super majority now.
Nowhere to hide.
Last point though is that their money and power is more important than most swings. That is to say they take turns with what party is the bad guy. Even in a pretty good swing only less than 10 percent lose their election…then they lobby or join the board at goldman.
My comment responds to comment @38. Must be a Freudian slip. I keep think Mr. Reid is a Mormon because of his illiberal views.
I should keep reminding myself that Reid comes from a state where gambling and prostitution are legal, which should make him feel at home in DC.
The comments about Sen. Brown still apply.
Your concern for my “brand” is touching. I’ll take it with all the due consideration it deserves, coming as it does from someone who predicts a 62 vote margin in the Senate for a public option.
Go, Jane, go!
That’s my grrl.
I would certainly be interested in hearing about that. Or something that gets something better than HELP.
I’m sure my knowledge of Senate procedure is limited and Reid probably has more options than I know, but it appears that we’ve got a choice between HELP and Finance. Are you saying you find HELP to be worse than Finance?
My principle objection is to Reid letting Lieberman determine a bill by withholding a 60th vote, or any other member of the caucus, just on principle. It’s a recipe for making every single piece of business to go before the Senate infinitely worse.
I will donate to any Reid challenger, Democrat, Republican, or even Farm Animal.
seconded. especially farm animal.
Could happen though! You’ve established a good persona, why weaken it endorsing a conservative constitutionalist – if that guy had his way, you would probably not have the right to vote. I’ll be surprised if Reid can be taken out in Nevada and to earl of huntingdon – I’m pretty sure Reid is Mormon, actually, although I am unsure if he wears the magic underwear b/c it is not polite to ask.
And I defiantly predict a public option health care bill grabs 62 votes in the Senate. History come hither.
he’s mormon. he didn’t want to impeach jay bybee – can’t do that to a fellow mormon.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/04/24/bybee/index.html
Because that guy won’t have his way, and Jane will continued to be allowed to vote, and in the meantime stalwart obstructionist Sen. Reid will be out to pasture?
He is a Mormon; they aren’t all in Utah.
And be replaced by a rabid anti-woman republican? No thanks. A good dem challenger is one thing, a strict conservative is another, entirely different thing. The farm animal choice would be a step up.
A public option will make it into the final bill, I believe, and Jane Hamsher will deserve more credit for that than Harry Reid.
I’m sorry, I just don’t understand why you’re so confident of this. Can you explain?
There you go. I forgot about their acquisition of Las Vegas in the Sixties and their migration to California, which gave them such intimate motivation to make sure they passed prop. 8.
Not sure if this is helpful Jane/Selise, but Chris Bowers has a diary up at Open Left which might have some useful/time line information. Chris has spoken of a nuclear option in the past although it’s not one I understand. In any event, he seems firm that Democrats would be unwilling to invoke it. And, IIRC, when Bowers met with Bill Clinton, Bill has no knowledge that it even existed.
Getting Health Care Bills to the Floor
In other words, they could have changed the rules at the beginning of the current 111th Congress, back in January, in coordination with Obama’s inauguration. Didn’t.
But then, things were gong to be SO bipartisan, why would they ruffle feathers?
What a useless mess the Senate has become. It’s the La Brea Tar Pit of good ideas.
Thanks to FDL and others I believe that NO Senate Dem will dare vote against health care reform in whatever form it takes. If the public option is in, even if their corporate masters don’t like it, they will have to vote in favor – their constituents have more votes than the companies and they cannot take the heat.
Snowe and Collins have had about enough of their own party and will vote in favor as well. From that point on they will operate as independents and join Dems on other legislation in 2010.
My crystal ball is not really a crystal ball and I could be wrong, of course. But I think I’m right.
This kind of spurious Us vs. Them framing is why we’re captive. If you don’t want the progressives to be taken for granted, then you have to be willing to take down people like Reid, and if you get a “rabid anti-woman republican” in his place; you take him down next.
The amount of power Reid has in stopping anything remotely resembling progressive legislation from moving through the Senate on any given day is spectacularly more than Tarkanian will ever hope to have in his 6-years in office.
It’s not an advocacy of anti-woman Republicans, it’s an admission that the Republicans aren’t the problem.
You don’t seem to get it, Reid can keep the Public Option out all on his own. He doesn’t have to put it in there for a vote, hence the “Silent Filibuster.”
While I do see your point, it’s overreaching to presume the Dems never lose the majority. There is no way, as a woman, I would be willing to roll the dice on backing a Republican over a Democrat (any Democrat will do) in the Senate with the idea of tossing him later.
A good progressive challenger for Reid is a fine idea that I would support, but I doubt Reid would lose to a challenger like that, people in Nevada understand there is a benefit to be had by keeping your Senator given that he is Majority Leader.
To me it would be better to toss him as Leader first, than try to unseat him with a primary challenge within the Dem party. I’m from Illinois, may I suggest Sen. Durbin? He’d be great!
Jane,
They’ll have no idea what hit them. If 77% wants a PO and it doesn’t happen, their political careers are over. We won’t have to lie, decieve, frame the arguments…the TRUTH will bring them down.
I do get it, I just don’t believe Reid will do it. There is no way the Senate will ignore the HELP bill Ted Kennedy wrote before he died. I think it will be the baseline bill and a few tidbits from the SFC will get tossed in there to pretend all that drama was worth it. The House bill will move it a bit more left and voila, health care will be reformed.
Jane said:
I think Reid Can’t enforce caucus discipline. That would take someone with the spine and balls to actually do their job.
Perhaps approaching this from the other end. What are the chances that pro-PO Dems would threaten a NO vote if the final bill has no PO.
Should we encourage them to pressure Reid on a daily basis, get them to commit to shooting down the bill if there is no PO?
Then just keep Reid, he’s any Democrat.
As for tossing him as Majority Leader, that’s not a public election, and sure as hell a lot harder to whip for as a pressure issue on the rest of the caucus.
I also don’t believe in majority protecting, if having a majority isn’t doing anything, and starting in 2006 it hasn’t done much (if anything), precisely because they triangulate their position to exploit exactly your way of thinking. Anything other than a Republican is going to get you anything but movement.
if i’m right in my interpretation of events re the dodd fisa filibuster on dec 17, 2007 and if the same rules apply to budget a issue (a long shot, but maybe?), it would require an ally in congress to submit your po amendment (it would have to be designed to be acceptable as germane to the senate parliamentarian) and then hold tight and object to every UC submitted to require 60 votes for it’s passage (which was been a typical but i’m pretty sure bullshit move by reid et al).
my knowledge is also v limited, but i did pick up a few things watching the fisa fight (and i called the senate parliamentarian’s office for occasional explanations – they were almost always very helpful. in the house i had help from a nice staffer on the rules committee). but of course david/kagro x is the guy for all this — i will try to post this as a question at his place (maybe tomorrow, will try to find the time) to see if he thinks it is a possibility. wish i was better at explaining these things.
no. just the opposite. but i am not a source of good info on this. don’t have enough knowledge and haven’t read the bills. [aside: so far, i think they are both weak pos, which gets to my opinion about a weak po being worse than none. but we disagree on that, so i thought it best to leave that question to the side while we talk senate rules for your fight to get the best po you can.]
i agree (although i’m a hypocrite because i like the idea of bernie sanders or some other progressive blocking a bad dem bill by voting with the republicans — sorta analogous to your progressive block in the house).
my big issue is that if the reid doesn’t force a cloture vote so the public can see who votes with the gop (should it come to that), that means the party leadership want to protect those would vote against cloture from citizen action — and that imo should not go unpunished.
Nathan, you are probably a man. I would rather be exploited for being a loyal Dem than thrown to the back of the bus by a Republican any day. For women this is not a new choice.
If Reid fails on health care, and by fails I mean does not honor the last efforts of Ted Kennedy by putting a public option (Medicare plus) into the Senate bill for conference, it is possible he will have ended his leadership by his own hand. And I will be all in for that, don’t really understand how anyone who backed the Iraq war on the Dem side is deserving of that honor anyway.
It’s not like we need more reasons to hate JoeLie … Lieberman thinks the Baucus Bill is too much reform – via thinkprogress
yes. i think that is exactly right. and i thought they should have done so.
actually did some research last decemberish on the filibuster and senate rule changes for a diary i was thinking of writing for oxdown. i though the senate should re-write the filibuster rule for the 111th congress because the dems never miss an opportunity to tell the base they need to win more elections before doing what they promised us. however, couldn’t quite convince myself what i thought would be the best fix (i’d rather fix than nix) and so never wrote the diary.
last time i read up on the nuclear option (and i am very much influenced by kagro x’s most excellent 23 part series on it), i thought it was too much of an abuse of power to support — would much rather go the way of changing the senate rules at the beginning of the 112th congress.
but letsgetitdone has been challenging me to defend that position, so i’m probably going to have to go re-read my old notes and links if i can possibly find the time.
thanks for the link. haven’t read chris’s latest on the nuclear option (yet, but will now), did however comment on a previous recent post of his on the topic:
http://openleft.com/diary/15208/nuclear-test
It’s still way too early to call the 2010 election, but according to the polls Harry’s already losing against either of the Republican challengers.
Honestly, if he’s too impotent to bring to the floor a real health care reform bill when, as Jane points out, “there are 51 Senators who will vote for a public option, something 77% of the country wants,” then I wouldn’t blame a single Democrat in Nevada for not wanting to vote for him.
It does look like he really could lose next year, and that would make him only the second Senate Majority Leader to lose his bid for re-election in US history.
Twice in six years.
Both Democrats.
Pathetic.
Jane,
You’re pretty clear what you’re willing to DO TO HARRY if fails to lead. But I bet you, he wants to hear what you’re willing to do DO FOR HARRY if he delivers. Welcome to politics.
Signed, and count me in for 2010. ‘Bout damn time campaign season started again.
Lady Jane, you’re absolutely gorgeous when you’re angry. *g*
Last time I looked, Representatives and Senators were elected to represent the people of their district/state. If 77% of the people in the country want something it seems to me it’s their job to make that happen. Every place I ever worked I never got my ass kissed for simply doing my job. If I did something special I might get a bonus. Doing what 77% of the people want doesn’t make it special in my book. ymmv
You don’t really understand how a person who did ______ is worth of the honor of Majority Leader , but yet here we are aren’t we?
You’re not going to get thrown to the back of the bus by one asshole Republican in a state you don’t even live in, which also happens to be half populated by women, but Harry Reid has been throwing your civil-liberties under the bus for almost a decade (along with most other Democrats), because they know you’d jump off a bridge just to avoid a Republican in office.
Being endlessly loyal, while continuously getting shit on, strikes me as being essentially a glutton for abuse. At some point if you want something to change, you’re going to have to break the cycle. Or we can just keep electing more DINOs, you know… out of loyalty.
To expand this a little.
The state and local party apparatus is so heavy with party hacks with the members keeping electing the same ol’ boys and girls as party chair, etc. We had an AA woman as local party chair here. The hacks hounded her out of the position. She was too progressive. If a candidate can’t get the nod from, say the Pinellas County Democratic Party, s/he’s going nowhere. Guess who tells the state party who they’ll accept? The DSCC and DCCC. Unless and until we can break that stranglehold we’re stuck with the inevitable evil of two lessers. I was campaign treasurer for the same candidate in two consecutive elections. Support a Progressive Democrat? Not a chance. Support a buddy of the uber Rethug mayor of St Pete? You betcha. I’ve got the drill down.
LOL, welcome aboard Jane!!! Now you’re understanding where I was coming from the first day I posted here (when I was accused of being a paid Republican troll, lol).
I’ve been keeping my two Senators (Webb & Warner) abreast of my personal campaign (I’m gathering pledges from people who say they voted for both of them to pledge to vote for whoever the Republican nominee is opposing them in their re-elect years if no health care reform passes or if it passes but without at least a strong, robust, public option), with emails as I’ve gotton more to agree to the pledge.
I keep getting back the same old form letter junk, but I’m betting if I can get the number of pledges up into the hundreds that they might take more notice. I’ve got plenty of time, and like you, I’m committed!!!
I’ve already emailed, faxed and mailed two letters to Reid letting him know that I will join you in defeating him if he fails us all so miserably as Marjority Leader.
If it comes to this, it’ll be sad, but necessary.
On the other hand, as TheLeftNut says @ 130, we should tell him what we’ll do for him if he does the right thing and fights for a strong public option in the meetings with Baucus, Dodd, and the White House.
I for one will sing his praises as loudly as I can.
I will contribute to his campaign!
And I will work to help him get re-elected!
If your’re not already, you might also start thinking about what you can do on the ground where you are, i.e. direct candidate support, even if its stamping envelopes or stapling mailers. With my long white hair and moustache I don’t do a lot of door to door. Scares the hell out of the old white women. *g*
SCOTTY!!!
Aye, Cap’n, she’s a lutle wobbly but we’ll get ‘er right again soon as we can.
All I have to say is THIRD PARTY,THIRD PARTY,THIRD PARTY
I wasn’t talking about the world we live in. I was talking about the world THEY live in. You KNOW that Harry and the other PO fence sitters are looking for what they could get out it.
We’ll probably have a greater chance with carrots then beating him with sticks before anything is decided.
(sorry, I can be a cynical fuck sometimes)
While I understand your argument I simply cannot encourage anyone to vote for a Republican like that guy. Easily I can advocate dumping Reid from Leadership if his major accomplishments are working with the obstructionist Republican saboteurs. Collectively in the majority the Republicans are v. dangerous to the country and I can’t add to that just to message send.
Earlier someone pointed out that if Reid goes down he will be the second Majority Leader to lose re-election of late and both would be Dems. While I agree it is pretty pathetic performance it should also be viewed as Dems being willing to discipline their own.
OK Jane. IF it comes to that, I WILL meet you in L.V. and help you for a week – any way I can. AND, I’ll try to get my wife to come along.
I remember your first day – great that you hung in there.
the reality of the extent of rot and corruption of the Democrats is soaking in, even with serious loyalists like JH, who was really scorching today.
As SD details at #133, though, the primary route is a challenge, with a locked down Party machine in place.
but a little tap on the 3rd Party wedge in a tight race could cause the desired result . . . but this I think is still an un-utterable taboo for those who put Party above values, and justify this by appeals to ‘pragmatism.’
The DNC chooses I believe.
Petition signed without reservation. “Give ‘Em Hell Harry” continually demonstrates an inability to give ‘em even a mild case of purgatory.
Jane, you’ve “got balls” (like Alan Grayson) – and your brave, bold words sound a knell! There’s a pivotal tide about to move the political discourse of this nation . . .
Thanks you for your courage and strength over the past months in your account of the 2009 Health Care debate!
Hear, hear. We’ll drive out to Vegas to campaign against Harry Reid. No problem.
@Jane BRAVO!!!
Now that’s the declaration of WAR I think is required to stop the weak kneed liberals. Now how about firing a warning SALVO across the Bow so that Reid understands what’s to come if he doesn’t sheppard in a real PO.
Personal responsibility is a bitch. lol.
“You can’t win at the negotiating table that which you are not prepared to fight for on the battlefield”
and what of the Culinary Workers Jane ?
I don’t think it’s simplistic to see them and Labor in general as a lynch pin. how in the world is he going to proceed with watering down or removing the PO without a direct affront to a major and highly influential constituency ?? the very year his numbers are at career lows ?? hmmm
I don’t doubt that was the plan all along, clearly they miscalculated our response, and/or it’s effects. and the same for Labor and it’s unwillingness to go along nudge nudge wink wink
there’s very little out there, which of course makes it all the more tantalizing, but I would like to know more about just what they will agree to
and yeah, the thought of him having to finally squirm just breaks me up
Reid is spineless and dickless.
It is time to get him out of the senate even if it means electing a one term repugnant-can in his stead.
Sometimes you have to break a few eggs….
I agree 100%. Lets start supporting a Green ( at least ) or Socialist party movement on this site.
Lookee here courtesy the always fabulous Howie Klein:
looks like we got us a humdingah
Question is how do you become a credible threat. So far that’s the weak part of your strategy. Sure working to defeat Reid after the loss of PO may or may not be effective, however its more effective if he is convinced that I doesn’t want the heat so the PO gets included. How do you convince him that he faces eminent danger? So far I don’t think he or anyone on the hill are convinced, I refer to the PJ comment over the weekend.
Hey that’s right I forgot about Tahoe! Ding!!
I never forget that Lieberman was Obama’s mentor… never…
Hey you!
Reid’s tepid, handwringing “leadership” is exactly what the Democratic Senators wanted — that’s why they picked him. He’s more of a symbol than an actual leader, but that is all the more reason why we should target him for defeat if he fails to deliver — making him a symbol of the consequences of betraying the voters.
Not great for him. If he delivers BS for four years, he’s toast in 2012.
Don’t forget Dennis the K.
It could be Shumer, but more likely it will be Dick Durbin. He’d be a lot stronger than Reid, and a lot better front person for the Dems.
No cheering up until we beat them. By the way a HELP bill, with a constrained PO, not due to take effect until 2013, is still a disaster. Between now and 2013, and depending on when in 2013 the exchange with the PO is operational, up to 180,000 Americans will die because they lack insurance, the equivalent of 60 9/11s. And you think that’s winning?
I’d contribute to beating him. He’s a total disaster.
Sorry, farts dissipate after a few moments. The consequences of a successful filibuster are forever. Let’s get rid of the filibuster.
You may be right about Snowe and Collins and how they will move But about:
I’m not so sure. I think there are at least a few in the caucus who will vote no on a bill without a PO, and perhaps even one or two who will vote no on a bill that has a very poor PO. the, of course, there’s Bernie Sanders who will have a very rough time voting for a “reform” bill without a PO.
The discussion on the “nuclear option” between selise and I is here. I also followed up that post with other diaries calling for using the “nuclear option” here, here, http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/9408 and here.
I’ve had enough of the filibuster and believe we would open up our whole political situation if we could get rid of it. I don’t think any good Democrat or progressive ought to support it.
How about supporting a new party called “The Real Democratic Party”?
Harry Reid is just doing what the president wants him to, being “bipartisan” (kissing Olympia Snowe’s butt) and offending no one but progressives, who the president thinks he gets to take for granted. Progressives need to send a message instead of getting punked, pouting a bit, and then rolling over. A bad bill will be bad for Democrats, across the board.
“Because health care is a human right, not something to be subject to Rahm Emanuel’s back room deals, Joe Lieberman’s vanity or the Reid family’s political ambitions.”
I hate this sort of ‘Blue Jane’ sentences, because it’s not Rahm’s but Obama’s back room deals!
I want Harry Reid defeated also. Along with about 90% of the politicians who voted themselves a Cadillac health plan, who arrogantly thumb their noses at Americans, who are convinced we’re a bunch of idiots that can be herded around like mindless sheep, and who insult us on a regular basis.
Insulting comments like the ones Reid made at a recent energy conference in Las Vegas. He called people who opposed the Democrat Health Plan, (who the hell knows what that is anyway, even the liberal press, let alone Democratic representative, who passed a 1307 page Health Care Bill less than 24 hours after they received copies of the bill) and I quote “evil mongers”. He also the evil mongers are using “lies, innuendo and rumor to drown out rational debate.)
Of course, Reid’s comments rank right up there with Pelosi’s, who called people who dissent with Obamacare, and I quote “Nazi’s”
I could go on but I think there’s no more room in this little box for the truth to be written.
Thank you Jane, but please don’t mince words.
You make us proud.
Harry Reid makes us sick.
And seeks to keep us that way.