The CBO’s brutal analysis of Conrad’s proposal for small, state-based co-ops may have been the final fatal blow for the idea. The Hill reports that prospects for the co-ops are fading fast; it is an idea with few defenders and many detractors:
“It doesn’t have much of a constituency beyond Conrad because it doesn’t please any critics of public plan on the right and doesn’t satisfy any of the ardent public plan advocates on the left,” said a Senate aide. “You don’t gain anything by putting it in the bill.”
Just because the co-ops idea is on its deathbed, it does not mean the prospect for a real public option has increase. Snowe’s worthless trigger–that is designed to never be pulled–is seen by many in the Senate as a way to make the claim that they included a public option.
The aide said that most Democratic lawmakers would vote for a public option with a trigger before embracing co-ops. Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) supports the trigger plan, which would set up a government insurance program only if private insurance companies failed to meet certain standards.
The good news is that progressive grassroots pressure has made it almost impossible for Democrats to pass health care reform without a “public option.” That bad news is that Democrats in the Senate are looking for anything, regardless of how worthless, on which they can slap the label “public option”:
At this point, Senate Democrats are signaling they could get behind just about anything they could plausibly call the public option — from a “trigger” that could kick in a public insurance plan later, to Delaware Sen. Tom Carper’s proposal to give states an option to create a government program.
The battle is now over the shape and viability of the public option. Will it be a real public option or a worthless fig leaf with a pretty label?
59 Comments
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
Advanced search
Call it The Idea of a Public Option .
Ahmmm, gee, ahmm, I’ll take the latter for $1,000, Alex.
What is going to stop the insurance assholes from sky rotting the rates on all of us before any of the “reform” takes place. And that is assuming it’s actual reform and not more rape and pillage of the vilagers.
Load your Graysons, it’s feudin’ time!
I think that has been happening already.
Fifty quatloos on the prettily-labelled fig-leaf!
Not to the extent it will happen should we get the public option.
You doomsayers . . . let yourself indulge in a bit of fantasy, as reality!
The message has been SENT!
Obama, Rahm, the Dem Party KNOWS they will take a HUGE hit in ‘10 if they DON’T pass a REAL and vibrant PO that competes.
They HAVE to pass a vibrant reform. Hopefully, it will start immediately, not in ‘13, so that insurers can’t jack it up from now to then. And with a good reform bill, caps will be put on what they CAN jack up, now or then.
It’s come right down to the simplest thing Jane/FDL and others have been saying and doing for what seems like forever now . . . PRESSURE THE WH/Dem Party/Congress!! And ensure they KNOW they will lose our votes, and the votes of the 77% of the public who FAVORS a vibrant and competitive Public Option.
POLITICAL PRESSURE! FROM THE GRASS ROOTS OF THE BLOGOSPHERE! WORKED! IS WORKING!
No time now, to let up that pressure. *G*
So, you doomsayers out there, dare to hope again! And let your fingers do the dialing and your lips do the talking to your congcrits, one and all! It’s working!
Hey Brothah Norske, if yer out there, is it too soon to pass some BRANDY with that ammo? *G*
Nebbah mind. Dup edits. My bad.
For me, the issue is: Why is congress forcing us on public option health care & refuses to join themselves? I would have thought the Republicans would be making this a major issue.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty……Thomas Jefferson
Power to the People!! http://www.booksbyoliver.com
Over Viagra Falls in a Barrel
When the previous administration promised to make Afghanistan & Iraq just like like the United States, this is what they really meant — creating a mindless, ungovernable feudal mob ruled by a corporate, political oligarchy.
Obama would have no more resistance to single payor, the true health care access reform, than this pathetic danse macabre of the witless, craven fools in congress.
Tonight’s Double Feature: Sicko & Capitalism: A Love Story
jon, what’s your definition of a “real public option”? i ask only because it seems everyone has a different idea and i wonder what your’s is. thanks.
p.s. my definition is the original hacker proposal.
Huh, I can’t seem to space out my #8 with paragraph breaks, after my edit. Sorry bout that folks, it’s easier to read with the para breaks . . . . Is there a mod handy?
good point. all of congress, their families and all fed employees should have to be on the public plan. iirc that one was on of scarecrow’s list for a “robust” public option.
if it’s the same thing that has been happening to em, your edited comment is only missing paragraphs until you refresh. it will look fine to the rest of us.
probably an ajax bug?
Mine too, and I see no chance of that one, but that is the one that would do the most good IMO, in terms of actually trying to control costs, which is what the theory is behind a public option.
Of course my first choice would be single payer though.
Refresh your screen.
EDIT: Whoops, I see selise already suggested that. Sorry.
In Berkeley, the long time CO-OP Grocery Store is now a Whole Foods, and we know where their owner stands on HCR.
Thanks! You were right! *G*
‘Preciate the heads up!
Nebbah mind, mods!
Selise got yer backs! LOL
*waves*
Damn, that’s sad for Berkeley.
So sad.
Whole Foods is a crock.
or ‘Whole Paycheck’ as it also referred to.
A Co-op sold out to Whole Foods?
In Berkeley? What is the world coming to?
If everyone would just eat Sprouted Bread …
amen and amen.
original hacker proposal, like single payer, was apparently never on the table.
i have my doubts about original hacker proposal, but i would probably have supported it even though i, like you, think single payer hr 676 is the way to go. actually i think it’s the only policy that makes any sense.
the current proposals i can’t support. and imo they are being way way over sold by most po supporters i read. ralphbon summed that up nicely:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8869/comment-page-1#comment-83904
excellent!
I fervently wish that I could share your optimism, unfortunately, I have already experienced the increased pressure from the insurance companies in my own family. On Saturday I received an electronic phone call urging me to join the Medicare Advantage fight against the government, and stating that unless we do so, seniors will be denied benefits. On Sunday my daughter informed me that the insurance premium for her family of four has been doubled – and I would like to point out that her coverage is Basic Health, which is the often mentioned co-op in Washington State, supposedly the affordable choice for lower income citizens. Today I received a phone call from an insurance company, telling me that although I currently receive medication insurance through them, they strongly recommend that I should also purchase a Medicare Advantage plan. I told them that since we are not sure what the government is going to do about health care reform, I felt that at this time I was content with Medicare, and will not be making any decisions concerning health care until matters are more settled. I personally do not feel the Medicare Advantage plans deserve the enormous subsidies they receive from the government. Losing my head momentarily I informed the insurance agent that I felt the insurance companies are presently waging war against the American public, and I am not willing to support this. He replied that if I changed my mind at a future time I should contact them for more information. He then added somewhat ominously: “We’re going to be around for a long, long time.” Whereupon he hung up without so much as saying goodbye. We can expect the insurance companies to keep increasing the premiums, and doing anything they can to make us so afraid of them that we meekly agree to anything they do to us, before they retaliate by doing us even greater harm. All I can say is they have no concern for us whatsoever.
Single Payer ? Why, that crazy idear would nevvuh work … /s
And that would be a Pyrrhic Option.
Unfortunately, it’s what a lot of the PO proponents are guilty of supporting because they haven’t defined a clear set of demands for a public healthcare system. Instead they cling to the few progressive-ish crumbs thrown to them, like Medicare +5% rates, claiming small victories for a plan that’s called ‘public’ even though most of the public would not be eligible to join (see CBO). They’re acting like peasants rather than citizens responsible for their own country.
Of course the solution here is to outline a progressive plan and then demand that it be enacted. But wait … we already have that plan and it is floating around Congress right now. It’s called HR 676: Medicare For All.
But if there is a well-defined plan out there that would satisfy most progressive healthcare reformers, why are they instead throwing their time and energy behind the Pyrrhic Option?
You got that right, Larue … the Dems know that if a strong PO isn’t passed, their political careers are in danger and every politician is as self-centred as the next.
The momentum is with us, let’s get to the Phones tomorrow and remind every Congresscritter that we’re watching how they vote on this.
HCReform, real reform, is all about changing each and every single thing you and your family is encountering.
Hang on, don’t give in to fear, and I believe help and reform ARE on the way.
If WE THE PEOPLE do nothing, and don’t pressure our elected one’s, we lost it all.
The pressure’s working in the House AND The Senate, and in the WH.
It’s working.
And when we have a final bill, that Obama agrees to sign, that DOES NOT address all your issues and concerns, we ramp up the pressure even more, and flood the streets with millions of pissed off seniors, and non-seniors, pissed at the insurance companies, the med delivery system, and pissed at both the Dem’s AND The Pubs.
Never let up, apply pressure, constantly. Change has to be forced.
Don’t let up.
You betcha! ;-)
The Scorpion & Frog: A Health Insurance Company Parable
Petrocelli!
yep. because single payer has worked many times and in many places while public-option-in-a-multi-payer-system has worked exactly zero times.
aren’t we americans very clever? /s
{{{ Selise }}}
What a Country …
amen.
Come on upstairs when you’re ready … we’re roasting HoJo.
Thanks, Larue, I feel better. We will never be defeated, because we will never quit. We owe it to our country and our people.
The buzzard took the monkey for a ride in the air,
The monkey thought that everything was on the square,
The buzzard tried to throw the monkey off of his back,
The monkey grabbed his neck and said, “Now listen, Jack,
Straighten up and fly right,
Straighten up and stay right,
Straighten up and fly right,
Cool down, Poppa, don’t you blow your top.
Ain’t use in divin’
What’s the use in jivin’?
Straighten up and fly right,
Cool down, Poppa, don’t you blow your top!”
The buzzard told the monkey,
“You are choking me,
Release your hold, and I will set you free.”
The monkey told the buzzard,
“Your story sounds so touching, but it sounds just like a lie.”
“Straighten up and fly right,
Straighten up and stay right,
Straighten up and fly right,
Cool down, Poppa, don’t you blow your top.
Fly right!”
Judging from the release of that ridiculous PWC written-to-order report, I’d say we’re at the second part of the chorus: AHIP is telling us to let go and they’ll be good. Don’t believe it for a instant. They have given us no reason to ever trust them.
If we had a government that wasn’t so dominated by corporophagous politicians, we’d get single-payer coming out of this. But if wishes were horses, we’d all be riding. Obama has told us that we’re going to get second-best. Okay, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, but you can make a damned fine leather purse. And that, my friends is what we have to do. We have to make them pass us a really nice leather purse.
Well said, BCT !
watertiger is upstairs!
Late Night: Nice Health Coverage You Got There. Be a Shame If Somethin’ Happened to It.
He then added somewhat ominously: “We’re going to be around for a long, long time.” Whereupon he hung up without so much as saying goodbye.
Well Gabriele, it’s that attitude that just might be their undoing. They are seriously starting to overplay their hand such as that arrogant report they released today. Hang in there. Smart’s the word and quick’s the action. We just might get ‘em yet.
i live in MA. maybe that’s why i don’t see a leather purse, let alone a nice one.
in the bills congress is considering, i see rising costs, a hated mandate and a po that, rather than controling costs, is a dumping ground for sick people the insurance companies don’t want as customers.
if only the po was being marketed, not as a cost control mechanism, but instead as a refuge for catastrophic illness, i might not be so negative. but it’s not and that means it’s going to be a stake through the heart of single payer when the republicans say it shows that gov can’t run public insurance that is competitive with private insurance.
stupid stupid stupid. i’m not getting on this stupid train unless you can convince me i’ve got it all wrong (and i encourage you to try because i’d really like to think differently than i do right now).
edit to add: i don’t trust obama any more than i do ahip.
Selise, would you describe the system in MA as having a strong PO or a weak PO or none at all?
none at all.
This is bigger than health care.
Medicare for all cannot be allowed to pass. Then people might start wanting their government to work for them in other areas.
Where exactly is the downside for the administration, were Obama to give a full throated support to a super robust public option?
He doesn’t want one (is a total fraud) is all that I am able to come up with.
The left should start throwing his mother’s travails back into his face at every opportunity.
AHIP needs a hip replacement but can’t afford it because of its previous existing condition.
BTW, does anyone actually wear pajamas anymore?
Does anyone call them pajamas?
When I first saw the headline, I thought it was an article about Panama hats. I thought, wow! They’re making a comeback. Gonna get me one.
Jammies, yes. PJs,yes. Pajamas, no.
Note to self: Possible title for new spy thriller — Panama Thong.
I just now returned from a town hall meeting for seniors held by my district’s Republican representative–and now I feel the need for very strong drink. In a sense, I guess I crashed the party, seening’s everybody around me had either been invited via robo-call or special invitation. But there was a tiny little eight line notice on the third page of the B section of the local paper and I figured this constituted an invitation.
These were the talking points (yes, I took notes): 1) Obama will ration care for seniors, 2) the lower and middle income classes will be taxed to pay for public health care (no mention of the upper class); 3)malpractice insurance is the primary cause of high health care costs; 4) while my representative really, really wants to help everybody, money doesn’t grow on trees, you know, and some in D.C. (the audience seemed to think this meant the Dems) don’t share my representative’s dedication to fiscal responsibility…um…this is her third term in office; you do the math; consequently, “they” are rushing to implement new health care programs before the last batch–Medicare, Medicade and Tricare– have had the kinks worked out of them, and ;6) any changes in health care are not going to be implemented before 2012 or 2013, so my reps advice is to slow walk this until “we can get it right.”
Oh,yes, almost forgot (2 generous glasses of wine will do that to a person), the solution to high insurance premiums is to allow people to shop across state lines. (You know, the same scam that credit card companies have used to stuff their coffers for years.)
What curls my hair is that there were 1,000 to 1,500 white-haired souls in that audience today,and they swallowed every word as if it came directly from God’s word to their ears.
As for an appropriate name for any solid health care reform bill–I’d opt for Equality Health Care. I’m sick to death, metaphorically speaking, of some of us being more deserving of special treatment than the rest of us.
It would seem then that if a strong public option were passed, it could eventually use its natural advantages (no shareholders to pay, no megamillion CEO’s and other execs, little advertising, no corporate jets, junkets, etc., etc.) to get an edge on the insurance co’s. The idea being that it might become “the little engine that could” eventually chop down the incredibly wasteful healthcare cartel. As far as pricing competitiveness and risk pool assessment goes (e.g. dumping ground for the sick,) I’m healthy as a tic and I would join it just on general principles. Wouldn’t you? How could it be worse than these damned evil insurance co’s? Take away pre existing conditions and rescission and you might have something worthwhile and, WITH VERY DUE DILIGENCE, hold us until we can join the rest of the world and get an honest to goodness single payer type system.
Fuck Yeah! I’ve been waiting for someone to say exactly that…
What would a woman who worked her ass off for microfinance think of her son, the Prez, blatantly selling out working people to this catastrophe masquerading as reform?
As soon as you can point to the legislation that defines a ’strong public option,’ I’ll agree with you and work for it.
Right. That is absolutely the next frontier. We have gone from a steady drumbeat of “the public option is dead,” to legislators (and lobbyists) starting to sweat over this PO hot potato and wondering how in hell they are going neuter it. You seem pretty well-versed on the details of these various faux-plans. If YOU could design and implement a PO, what would it look like?
What would a woman who worked her ass off for microfinance think of her son, the Prez, blatantly selling out working people to this catastrophe masquerading as reform?
Interesting! We should unashamedly shame the SOB with his own mother. I’m just low enough to go there.
I wouldn’t design a PO. I don’t think the public is optional.
I think, especially in a democracy, the public is essential. So then the just and smart thing to do is to keep every American alive and well. And which one of us will be the next Franklin, Jefferson, Miles? We won’t know if they are dead.
The real public option. Nationalize the Healthcare industry.
We forget that when our oil companies were taking other countries oil and giving them squat for it, they did what was right for their countries and nationalized their oil businees throwing out or controling our oil companies. They did what was right.
We didn’t call them communists or socialists and are still buying their oil, and calling them our friends today.
You see nationalizing the Insurance Industry is the smartest bet, we get their people, their systems, and the whole set up already there. The Government doesn’t have to create new agencies, hire new people, or start something from scratch. The people now insured thorugh them would be paying their premiums to the Government. The government wouldn’t be paying the people they pay to not give us care, for the add campaigns, marketing, and all the stuff that they spend on that isn’t healthcare. If the companies stayed seperate we would still have choice in the plans of the different companies. Even though they all were owned by the Government. They wouldn’t have to keep us and the Government at the mercy of the Insurance Barons. The profits would now be Government surpluses, and could be used to help insure the uninsured. The government wouldn’t be at the mercy of Wall Street, and the investors. It wouldn’t be looking at spending tax money. or taxing us more to provide care. It could set the rates, bargin for care, and control, what going on.
What it wanted to do with the present owners and investors is up to it. It could offer them a one time buy out, and say bye bye. Even that would be way better than to let them keep raping the country and people for profits on our sickness.
You see the retards we have elected to our Government don’t have the smarts to do this. They instead want to break the country, tax us more, fine us, and saddle our businesses with more problems providing care.
Their excuse is our free market, capitalistic, robber baron system we have, shouldn’t be tampered with. This is more important than the nations health, wealth, prosperity, and future. It’s more important to let the big Corporations, Wall Street, and all the big interests to continue ripping us off.
Our second public option is one we all know, throw all the bums out, retake our Government, and not replace the retards, with more retards.
Neither party is exempt. We all need to relize that our Congress set up the Insurance based system we enjoy. They promoted it, defended it, and are trying to give all of us to it.
The congress has created every problem this Country has, incuding the housing and banking crisis’s by their actions or inactions, and not fixed one. These are the people we are looking to hoping to fix the healthcare problem. They bailed out the banks, haven’t re-regulated, funded the wars, spent and are still spending us into debt, haven’t fixed Medicare Social security, and have saddled us and our kids with all these problems in Years to come. All while taking every dollar they can from every special interest, selling us out for those dollars, while we pay their salaries.
Oh yes! Our wonderful America in action.
You’re probably gone, but I’ll put this out there anyway.
Massachussetts has a mandate without any (wait a second, that’s not strong enough) any cost controls in place. No competition to speak of, no regulation worth mentioning.
If you want to know what we’re going to look like under MaxCare, look at Massachussetts. It isn’t pretty. It might be prettier than Texas, but that’s akin to saying that a Twinkie is better for you than a deep-fried Twinkie.
repubs pulled the trigger again on the demos and the demos will fold
they always fold
it is their nature to fold
actually they must fold to get lobbyist money for next election
but before they fold they must look like they are representing their voters
it works every time like a charm
demos sign up as an independent and form a voting block like the blacks and latinos have
your party no longer represents you
the repubs are planning to have a total have more society with them in control of the have nots
ie reagan economics
in MA we had regulation for community rating and no denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions before the 2006 reform.
it’s expensive, but for someone like me (cancer survivor and sometimes life threatening illness) it’s a life saver because at least i can get insurance.
there must be some kind of cost controls though (even if completely ineffective), because there is a ton of pressure on docs to see lots of patients in as little time as possible. also where i live there are long wait times for new patients, especially for specialists but also even for pcps.
Some points to consider and their implications.
The basic fact when considering an alternative to private insurers is that any plan that does not devote a portion of the premium to profit will necessarily be cheaper. This applies both to the PO as much as to the single payer plan. Public plans have a comparative advantage with respect to the price of premiums over private for profit plans. Everything follows from this fact.
An as yet missing piece of information is when does a plan to manage risk become viable. That is, what element of a plan to manage the cost of a risk allows for the price of the premium to fall. Presumably this happens when the aggregate cost of the risk decreases as the number of participants in the plan increases. But this can only happen when some proportion of the participants with low risk associated cost is reached relative to those participants with high risk associated costs.
If this is correct than it doesn’t matter what the total number of participants in the plan is. What matters in attaining the lowest premiums, is the proportion of low risk low cost participants relative to high risk high cost participants. This will be true if the number of participants is 47million, as those eligible for the PO, or 300 plus million participants as would be available for the single payer plan.
In this regard it bears re-emphasizing that premiums will always be lower in a publicly administered plan than in a for profit managed plan, because the public plan is more efficient, that is, paying a bill is done more efficiently by single entity (think Medicare) than by 1,300 entities paying that same type of bill but retaining a portion of it for themselves.
Of course there is very strong need for clarifying with readily available calculations the benefits related to cost of premiums that public plans offer. It makes arguing for it so much easier.