I was on Top Line with David Chalian and Rick Klein talking about the fact that the White House wasn’t able to deliver on their secret deal with AHIP because the political cost of tanking the public option got too high. AHIP is out there with guns blazing trying to kill off health care reform today, in direct response to Chuck Schumer trying to sell the “opt-out cop out” (with weakened mandates) to ConservaDems.
It signals to AHIP what it should signal to everyone else — Rahm Emanuel has his back against the wall and we wouldn’t even be talking about a “compromise” unless they had no other choice. They’re facing a melt-down in Obama’s poll numbers if they don’t deliver a public plan. It certainly isn’t the time for Democrats who say they care about one to start negotiating with themselves and help Rahm soften the blow to stakeholders.
We also spoke about the POP (Public Option Please) campaign and the need for health care reform to be an ongoing movement that starts talking about human beings, not cost curves. We also touched on the veal pen participation in the opt-out cop-out, and the fact that it’s deeply immoral for Harry Reid and the Senate Democrats to suddenly start talking about their lack of “60 votes” without also saying that a “filibuster-proof majority” means that you don’t allow members of the Caucus to join a Republican filibuster without paying a price.
Reid can’t shift responsibility for that on to the White House. It’s his decision, and his decision alone to force the ConservaDems to filibuster before he waters down the combined Senate bill in response to threats they won’t publicly acknowledge.
Make. Them. Filibuster.
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Between this and the previous post, Jane’s kicking some serious butt this afternoon. Makes ‘lurkin’ rather enjoyable.
Are there Senate Democrats who will join a GOP filibuster against health care reform with Public Option? If so, Harry Reid must tell us who they are. And he must strip them of their seniority, gavels, parking spaces, staffs, and other perks.
Make them crawl to Mitch McConnell like the Republicans they are.
Name them, Harry.
Jane Hamsher
mad, mad props and congratulations to my favorite Free Range gangsta
I was thinking that when poor ol Karen started firing this morning, but great to see it confirmed here
Make. Them. Filibuster.
Name them, Harry.
I think that we all know who they are.
fer chrissakes, Harry, if you’ve never done one un-pussy like thing in your life, do this one.
For a former boxer, Reid sure is wimpy.
I’ve never heard anybody say that he was any *good* as a boxer.
Strikes me as a walking punching-bag.
Are there Senate Democrats who will join a GOP filibuster against health care reform with Public Option?
Sorry, but it’s making me nuts that people (including Jane, I’m afraid) aren’t even questioning the false assumption that the Senate has 60 Democrats. Joe Lieberman has stated repeatedly that he supports Republicans’ ability to filibuster, and that he opposes public option — AND his only chance at re-election in ‘12 is to jump ship and become a Republican, in which case he’ll lost his chairmanships anyway, so that’s no threat.
So there are 59, not 60, senators subject to whipping if Reid gets serious. Wish someone would start pressing Lieberman, hard, for a commitment — or we have to look at Snowe’s vote a lot harder, much as I hate that idea.
My HuffPost piece with this calculus in more detail
See I alwasy find those articles about “stop blogging and March!” interesting.
Marching does nothing, absolutely nothing.
FDL and a few progressive blogs are the whoel reason we went from the PO is dead to drop the PO at your own political peril.
Blogging has done more in 12 years then every march after the 60’s.
I’ll stay home and blog, Marching is for suckers.
Then it’s still worth making him Fillibuster.
then he’s outed. No mroe hiding behind the Democratic skin we let him keep, we’ll all know he’s a republican, and then Conneticuit can boot him.
What makes you think Jane isn’t “questioning the false assumption that the Senate has 60 Democrats?” She’s been on Short Ride’s case for a long time now and is perfectly aware that LIeberman (and others) aren’t really Democrats.
She is calling them out (and Reid and Obama by extension) as they may not be Democrats but they hold their Senate power through the Democratic Party so on issues such as Health Care cloture votes (and Climate Change votes as well), when it is an issue that has been a core principle of the Democratic Party for decades, then they’d better damn well vote the Democratic Party way.
If not, then they should not be holding power through the Democratic majority.
The election of Obama was also a repudiation of Harry Reid’s “leadership” time for him to go. Before he and Pelosi endorsed Obama they demanded as they did with former DNC Chairman Dr, Dean that he stay out of their business and leave the real politics to them. I can’t believe Obama took the deal from a loser like Reid. His public appearances are never less then embarrassing to Democrats. Dem House and Senate leadership look like they’re such losers it’s a shame, it give a stench to Democratic causes and issues.
ok, I’m a little giddy with all the Ignatani and AHIP outrage
I’m seeing her as Sally Kellerman after the shower scene in MASH, trudging in to Rahm’s tent:
this isn’t a Congress, this is an insane asylum !, and it’s your fault !
Not to mention that JoeLie has a gavel that can be wrenched from his cold, white, desperate fingers.
EPU’d from prior thread: the Baucus vote was probably postponed because the AHIP report wasn’t quite ready for publication.
Kudos to Jane for standing up to the Democratic Party’s failing leadership!
Seriously, thank you. Great interview.
There are 60 members of the Democratic CAUCUS. Absolutely. That’s how they get their seniority — ever one of them, including Joe Lieberman.
There is no good having someone in the caucus for a filibuster-proof majority if they then filibuster. You vote with the caucus on procedural votes. Always. That’s just how it works. You can vote however you damn well please on a floor vote, but Lieberman was capable of voting for cloture Alito and then voting against him on the floor.
And Lieberman won’t come out and say he’ll filibuster. There is no excuse, not one, for letting him off the hook without making him declare that openly. And then using the full force of the power of the caucus against him for it.
I’m not wearing pajamas and I hate cheetos
Stop bad-mouthin’ Cheetos.
Maybe Cheetos will sponsor FDL. Could happen. ;->
Eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww. : )
It would be a great idea for PJ companies to advertise on blogs.
I’m wearing sweats and eating cheese doodles
We don’t always agree on the specifics of positions and tactics, but I’ll be damned if I couldn’t just kiss you for calling out Harry Reid like that. :-)
Yeah, really. Or maybe we should do a cooking with Cheetos cookbook for a fundraiser a la those plastic spined church potluck cookbooks.
VICTORY IS OURS! Hopefully, the first of many.
Thanks again, Jane, for everything you do. I know I had a rough start here, but I had never really been part of a serious activist organization and/or blog before. I’m learning as fast as I can. Thanks for putting up with me through the bumpy beginning. And I hope you think I’m doing better! ;-)
The Democrats are too chickenshit to make their own filibuster.
The Democrats won’t even make the Republicans filibuster, just take them on their word that they will and fold like a cheap chair.
I can’t afford pajamas. All my money is going toward a six-figure doctor/hospital/drug debt.
I’d click on a link to get new pjs!
I hope you kept a few hospital gowns just for spite…and I hope you don’t have a leather computer chair. Heh.
I’m beginning to believe Harry is kin to Cheney.
They are not very healthy. I imagine googlin’ would show MSG and HFCS. Of course, I do not object to selling out once and a while, if Cheetos wants to give money.
If that happens odds are we doom Harry Reid and his son’s political careers:) Choose wisely Harry we not Rahm hold your political fate.
Yeah, but most of those plastic-spined church fundraiser cookbooks have some excellent recipes in them. I think I have 4 or 5 of those from my travels and folks like to brag so will submit their second or third best specialty (as no one ever gives away the secrets on their number 1 cooking specialty)
Somehow I don’t think there could possibly be more than a page of cheetos based recipes. With plety of white space left on the single page.
The DNC should replace “Dirty Harry”
If we get our healthcare bill with a public option , we should throw one hell of a party
He just gets weak- kneed at the sight of
million$ in corp. donationsmanly Republicans …Didn’t Colbert do something similar with Doritos, mocking the stuff as he put one after another in his mouth?
While I won’t go so far as to say marching does nothing, I will say that the blogging has changed the location for the debate. Part of the goal of marches was to show that there were lots of people who cared about the issue. It was a visual representation of the feeling of the people that the media could show to other people. “See, the people are marching! They must really care about this stuff!”
But after the media ran the story then what? Where was the pressure? Where was the leverage? That is something that blogs help with accountability and pressure.
If not a helluva party, Jane’s nomination for next years Nobel in medicine!
Hugs for Jane at least !
My liege! Jane, my liege! XLNT
Keep kicking ass (with pointed-toe cowboy boots) and taking names.
Well a cursory google of Cheetos recipes turned up a caserole, carmelized Cheetos, and spicy chicken Cheetos patties. I bet there are a lot of creative things one could do with the humble Cheeto.
And lets be honest…anyone living in their mother’s basement clacking away at a keyboard in their pajamas while nursing a mountain dew is not too concerned with a healthy lifestyle.
It would be more like a trailer trash gourmet compilation.
GRRRREAT stuff, Jane. Whoa! Kickin’ ass and takin’ names. :o)
Sorry, TPaz. Didn’t see you upthread. :o)
She done good, didn’t she? :o)
Like this?
Actually, I was thinking of ad revenue for blogs, not, ya know, like actually buying PJs.
goes without saying
Absolutely.
And anyone who doesn’t think the healthCos would make them filibuster is flat out nuts.
Nice interview all the way around.
Thx Jane!
Is GOP Senator Ensign going to have charges filed against him or what getting his girlfriends husband a lobbying job and helping his career is a Senate no no. If we get Senator Ensign off the board its the same as getting another vote for Healthcare.
Also if we can get Senator Vitter on another call girl scandal thats another vote and what are the odds that he has decided he doesn’t need to be spanked for being a bad boy?
God bless you Jane.
Agree 100%.
The amount of information exchanged, and expertise developed, at FDL and a few other sites has been a catalyst for transformative conversations.
The reality is the GOP has two or more potential losses and if we get even one of them out we should ask for more on healthcare because then we will have the votes.
Yep voters educated about the issues do more than angry mobs anyday the informed voter is necessary for Democracy. The more informed voters the better the Democracy.
The GOP has to learn lying don’t pay in the long run.
Great going Jane! You should be on TV every single day! Did you see those guys? They were captivated!! (or in love)
Janes perserverance and determination is unmatched. We have continue to do our part and keep the pressure on our Reps and Senators on a regular basis, calls and e-mails both! No money for anyone other than the most pregressive unless and until we get a decent PO.
does this mean we can start bargaining for drug prices?
or there’s a differant secret deal preventing that?
Makes me crazy, too.
Seconded!
I think the protest marches are useful. They certainly were during the Vietnam war. When like-minded people come together for the common good the time is not wasted – IMO
And, just to be clear: fantastic job, Jane! It was thrilling (and disorienting) just to see that face on the same screen with an ABC logo in the background.
77% want the Public Option we have more support than the Obama plan! Great Talking Points Jane now can you get on tv more? Hitting Tweety on his Obama did not campaign on healthcare would be extra bonus points!
Why doesn’t Obama announce that he’ll veto a bill without a good public option?
Jane,
Awesome work in that interview! WOW
Make. Them. Filibuster.
This is an old story with Harry Reid. For whatever reasons, he has avoided making whoever is threatening to filibuster something do it publicly. Remember all the Republican non-filibusters? It took, if you’ll pardon the expression, an act of Congress to make Reid even make the opposition look bad.
Congrats Jane. Well done.
Umm, I’m in my P.J.s. But I am very ill and don’t get out of them most days. Those that say blogger’s eat Cheetos at their computers must never sit at one to write. Can you imagine what all that yellow Cheetos gook would do to a keyboard? Ugh. I’m proud of all the Firepups.
Because the secret deal Jane referred to in that interview didn’t include one.
.
I’m a Nam combat vet, been marchin’ for years for peace and the last thing I am is a sucker.
And don’t hand me any of that “Thanks for your service” cheap shit, either.
Add on:
Gandhi marched for over 40 years? Was he a sucker? Suckah.
keep kicking butt, jane. meanwhile there are heads aspoldin’ at dailykos, where jane is now being demonised for being “against obama”. sigh.
At this point, I’d rather the deal blow up. The WH and Congress deserve to look incompetent because they are. They can’t govern the people and still please their corporate masters, but to me that’s a good thing. They need to wake up to that reality and make a choice. I’d rather have them straight out choose the corporations so we can get on with a clean-out than continue this ridiculous dancing around. But then, I am more offended by people assuming I’m stupid enough to believe their lies than I am by stupid lies in general. If we end up with mandates, we can kiss our own asses goodbye given how powerful these industries are already.
Actually, I thought you were thinking something a little different…
Jane Hamsher, you are my hero! I’m older than you, but i want to be like you when i grow up! You tell Harry how to get Congress to work, and the news media how to do their jobs! I truly do rest easier watching you work.
Dammit, Jane! Get out of those pajamas and into something less comfortable for blogging!
Someone obviously needs to put up some Firedoglake pj’s on cafepress.
with footies.
Isn’t it true that a single Senator can call for a roll call vote? If I’m right, that would compel these quislings to have to expose themselves on a filibuster motion.
If it’s a piece of crap legisltation let it be given the coup de grace and let the poll numbers of Obama and the weak willed Dems in Congress take the hit. This country voted for real change not Bush lite.
mwahahaha!!!
Tweety just said they are all being timid (dems) because they don’t want a primary challenge!!!
Thank you Ned Lamont!
Servitude to corporations was Jefferson’s fear! Now an individual health insurance mandate under fear of tax penalty? So much for my freedom or choice not to “associate” with predatory insurance corporations tax exempt or for profit that seem to use the color of law to exercise discrimination, as segregationist used state law to gut fundamental constitutional law, to deprive people of property, in return for life’s extension? Instead of protecting lives corporations profit off the misery and suffering of people. The “general welfare” of this nation is leveraged by many things, which benefit corporate profit and power, to the detriment of America’s “general welfare.”
Jane is one of the few who has an intuitive inderstanding of what’s going on here. She was among the first to recognize that Opt Out sucks. She was right about HCAN being under WH control.
I would just add that I don’t think the Public Option is the only reason AHIP revolted. Insurers are realizing that everyone expects them to control premiums when most of their expenses will be out of their control. Who wants to be in a business like that? That’s why we should end this charade, nationalize the insurance industry and do single payer.
A gavel that’s also probably covered with dusty cobwebs, given his lack of action on just about everything that matters to most of us.
Jane, you are the best. Thank you so much for all your hard work on this vital issue.
Total thumbs UP!
Ummm . . with Cheetos, it’s bright ORANGE gook. Hence the old joke about a guy goes to his doctor with a bright orange . . . . ummm you know.
Sorry, that’s crap. Just use the “nuclear option” and get rid of the filibuster — for good.
Also, Jane is well aware that the idea that Democrats need sixty votes to pass health care reform is a big lie and part of the kabuki.
“This writhing corporate monster is fighting for it’s life and is capable of injecting venom to the very last.” They tried the land mines (triggers, co-ops, opt-outs.) But we’re coming down to the bone and the tactics are getting fiercer such as this petulant report that AHIP released today. What an arrogant, threatening piece of work. “If you do nothing we will raise your rates by 79%. If you pass this Baucus bill which is not perfectly to our liking we will raise your rates by 111%. You peasants had damn well better fall in line.” Y’all watch. Now begins the SERIOUS scrotum twisting. Skeletons will start walking out of Congressional closets, serious bribery, and wall to wall television advertising by the CARTEL. Its going to be blood and eyeballs all over the floor. I say “give ‘em the cold steel boys” (and girls, of course!)
I drink wine and tuna fish when I blog, never cheese doodles or chitos, or any of that fast food crap. Nor do I use pajamas. I haven’t done that since I was a kid.
Depends on the PO in HR 3200, we should make it a wake. Tell me, why doesn’t anyone ever suggest that we just freeze private insurance prices? That would certainly bend the cost curve.
What Are They Smokin’ at Daily Kos. That’s ridiculous.
You and I agree. Reset on HR 676.
The cold steel is HR 676. No mercy!
Great performance at Top Line, Jane. And great blog too.
Thanks Jane on your clear and coherent presentation:
Your presentation shows the importance of being a clear advocate for the PO while showing its merits over the ever increasing options that seem to appear out of the blue every week.
As the deadline approaches for the passage of a health reform bill it becomes increasingly important to speak about the PO with greater specificity and to be clear as to which elements it must contain in order for it to be viable. This allows one to determine whether these elements are contained in the proposed bills and it helps people to understand the benefits that flow from the PO.
The first point to be made is that the PO by virtue of not diverting a portion of its premiums as profit to shareholders, the premiums for the PO plan will be lower. That is the comparative advantage the PO has over private insurers.
To assure viability the PO must also have a sufficient number of participants such that the cost of the premiums decrease as the number of participants increase. The initial number of participants would at least be the currently uninsured, or 47 million. If the aggregate cost of the health care services incurred by this group were known, then the cost of the premiums for each participant PO plan would also be known. It would require a relatively straightforward calculation.
The typical cost of a premium from a private insurer is currently $4,000 plus/ year. The cost of the PO premium would need to be less than this, and presumably it would, given its comparative advantage over private insurers with respect to the cost of premiums.
Apart from being inherently able to provide lower premiums, the PO plan also covers all comers, a further advantage over private insurers. This fact, however, would tend to raise the cost of premiums for the PO plan, since it would cover the sicker patients that private insurers had refused to cover. Covering them is nevertheless an advantage.
The main point is that at this stage the PO plan should be presented with more clarity and specificity in assessing its benefits, in terms of its lower premiums, greater coverage and in lowering the cost curve in health care spending overall.
Great job on Top Line Jane. We’re lucky to have you out there!
- Tom
Dealing with the devil gets you fire and brimstone, “not healthcare.”
Nationalize the Healthcare Industry, slay the devils and the dragons, save our countyry and our people. Give us healthcare that isn’t for profit on our sickness.
To damn simple, for the retards in Washington to understand.
Way to go, Jane!
I have grave doubts about relying on Harry “Grow a Pair” Reid to get anything done. I like the approach of running ads in the states of fence-sitting Senators – such as, say, Nevada? – that raise the electoral cost of sitting on said fence. If Reid – like Specter – is worried about making it through his own Dem primary next spring, he might just find it expedient to all of a sudden become “principled.” Notice how strong Arlen has become on PO now that Sestak is in the race? Do that to Harry – it’s a lot cheaper to buy air time in LV than in Philly!
Obama’s poll numbers are because of the people who are advising Him, leading Him to do all the wrong things. Rahm is part of the problem because He keeps telling Him that He can get what is right out of the congress. He got the Recovery Act, WoW. Now they are going to give us something worse on healthcare.
We thought we were getting a leader with Obama, but got an appeaser, and a congressional suck up. He keeps letting the people who made the problems do the fixing for them.
His economic team isn’t much better it’s filled with people who supported what caused the problems, didn’t see it coming, were even in on it, and have no real idea on how to fix things. Good Job Mr. President.
Yeah 77% want a Public Option (Again who are they asking? Not me…). But as they said when details come out -
1) No Universal Access (if your job offers you a plan, your SOL), this is all the bills, which one looks like Hacker’s NONE OF THEM!
2) Mandates, Mandates, Mandates! Giving the real “Death Panels” our money just for the f__k of it, no other reason. It work for Mass. Didn’t it?
3)No true cost reduction
That’s why support drops into the 50% range
This is why again, if AHIP is going to throw a hiss-fit, then really “sock it to them” and say were just getting warmed up – Medicare For All
Nothing wrong with Blogs, its what politicians fear most. Because anything they say or do is instantly EXPOSED.
I like Cheetos and if you count sweats and a t-shirt as jammies then so be it, blog on…
I
I’m just wondering. Would it be effective to organize a strike against the health insurance industry? Do you think it would influence them if all of us who have insurance threatened that we would give it up, stop paying premiums, if there is no public option? Do we have the numbers? I remember a saying from the ’60s: “they may have the guns, but we have the numbers.”
I know it’s risky because many of us are old enough or have kids (or both) and feel we need insurance. But really, this is important enough to take that risk. What would happen if we all said “enough”? For 3 or 4 months we just stop giving them our money. Would they worry?
Blackmail, simply blackmail and extortion of America, by corporations as Jefferson warned…..
Who would you trust, AHIP or Thomas Jefferson?
Americans are entitled to health care. Billions of dollars in taxpayer money has been spent and continued to be spent in the evolution of medicine, bettering the human condition. Tax exempt insurers and health care providers are to lessen the burdens of government, in return for tax exempt status? USE the tax code to control corporate behavior!!!!!!
Americans fought a civil war so slaved could have access to constitutional protection, and not be considered “property!” So what happens when we are all considered property to have access to health care and Life?
I’m pretty healthy and I would join the PO just on general principles. Wouldn’t you? The #’s of people who would sign up, thus enlarging the pool and lowering the risk profile may be greater than we think.
Hi:
Your points, I think, bear some scrutiny regarding their implication:
The basic fact when considering an alternative to private insurers is that any plan that does not devote a portion of the premium to profit will necessarily be cheaper. This applies both to the PO as much as to the single payer plan. Public plans have a comparative advantage with respect to the price of premiums over private for profit plans. Everything follows from this fact.
An as yet missing piece of information is when does a plan to manage risk become viable. That is, what element of a plan to manage the cost of a risk allows for the price of the premium to fall. Presumably this happens when the aggregate cost of the risk decreases as the number of participants in the plan increases. But this can only happen when some proportion of the participants with low risk associated cost is reached relative to those participants with high risk associated costs.
If this is correct than it doesn’t matter what the total number of participants in the plan is. What matters in attaining the lowest premiums, is the proportion of low risk low cost participants relative to high risk high cost participants. This will be true if the number of participants is 47 or 300 plus million participants.
In this regard it bears re-emphasizing that premiums will always be lower in a publicly administered plan than in a for profit managed plan, because it is more efficient. That is, paying a bill is done more efficiently by single entity (think Medicare) than by 1,300 entities paying that same bill but retaining a portion of it for themselves.
So:
1- point number one becomes moot
2- even if mandates were imposed what matters is not the imposition as it is that the people that are mandated to acquire insurance be allowed to purchase a public as well as a private plan. And given that a public plan is cheaper presumably that plan will be chosen, if freely allowed.
3-costs of the premiums will be reduced by public plans relative to private plans, but the cost of the health services provided are a different matter altogether and have nothing to do with how the cost of premiums are arrived at between public vs. privately managed insurance plans.
Of course there is very strong need for clarifying with readily available calculations the benefits related to cost of premiums that public plans offer. It makes arguing for it so much easier.
Jane,
Wonderful work. Absolutely wonderful.
Keep the calls going folks.
If you’re still here you must be doing just fine :) What’s going on right now is an outrage, and Obama owes us better :( I don’t know anything about any deal with Harry Reid, but that guy the THE worst “leader” the Dems could ever hope to have. What a mealy mouthed, worthless guy.
And Rahm? I KNEW Obama wouldn’t deliver when he picked him and then picked all those conservadems and R’s – WHERE are the progressives in his administration guys? This is another sell out – and after all that hope.
Screw them. The dems will continue to suffer until we learn that putting conservatives in our seats and calling them Dems is the same as cutting our own throats; Our ONE chance and look at what they’ve done to us! Obama calls us “fringe”????? Yeah, THAT is Rahm. I detest him and always have.
He’s a republican………shill.