Comments on: Veal Pen “Opt-Out” Gaining Steam? Where? http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/ Politics for liberal newsgeeks Fri, 17 Feb 2012 02:47:29 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: CornerStone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52896 CornerStone Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:40:36 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52896 <p>It’s more than a little silly that you’re now calling out the Opt-Out Sellout when for so long you have been whipping for a nebulous Public Option. You can’t say anything definitive about the PO yet you’ve been whipping for it!<br /> If you’re for HR676 then be for 676! Don’t punk out and say the “votes aren’t there”. As is plainly evident now it should be obvious that the vote count is secondary. They are gonna scramble your precious PO and try to shove the Opt-Out down your throat.</p> It’s more than a little silly that you’re now calling out the Opt-Out Sellout when for so long you have been whipping for a nebulous Public Option. You can’t say anything definitive about the PO yet you’ve been whipping for it!
If you’re for HR676 then be for 676! Don’t punk out and say the “votes aren’t there”. As is plainly evident now it should be obvious that the vote count is secondary. They are gonna scramble your precious PO and try to shove the Opt-Out down your throat.

]]> By: gamd521 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52891 gamd521 Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:56:27 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52891 <p>An aspect of the current debate pertaining to the PO , the single payer scheme and the private insurance scheme should be established. This is that if the PO is to function at all it will ultimately lead directly to a single payer scheme, and ultimately necessarily to supplant the private insurers. The PO has to satisfy but one condition, that it offer lower premiums than the private insurers. </p> <p>The polemic between those that argue for a PO plan now or a single payer scheme now becomes mute. The real polemic is between the private insurers and those aspiring to make the PO viable, because the two can not coexist.</p> <p>The argument is simple. For the PO to succeed it must offer premiums that are continually lower than private firms, As long as this holds there is no need for private insurance firm to exist and once this ceases to hold there is no need for the PO to exist. Stated differently, the PO exists if and only if the private insurers do not exist. .</p> An aspect of the current debate pertaining to the PO , the single payer scheme and the private insurance scheme should be established. This is that if the PO is to function at all it will ultimately lead directly to a single payer scheme, and ultimately necessarily to supplant the private insurers. The PO has to satisfy but one condition, that it offer lower premiums than the private insurers.

The polemic between those that argue for a PO plan now or a single payer scheme now becomes mute. The real polemic is between the private insurers and those aspiring to make the PO viable, because the two can not coexist.

The argument is simple. For the PO to succeed it must offer premiums that are continually lower than private firms, As long as this holds there is no need for private insurance firm to exist and once this ceases to hold there is no need for the PO to exist. Stated differently, the PO exists if and only if the private insurers do not exist. .

]]> By: GDC707 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52876 GDC707 Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:41:36 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52876 <p>U R dreamin’.</p> U R dreamin’.

]]> By: Petrocelli http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52842 Petrocelli Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:45:32 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52842 <p>You’re right, being black has <em>always</em> been advantageous, in America.</p> You’re right, being black has always been advantageous, in America.

]]> By: djfourmoney http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52840 djfourmoney Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:41:47 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52840 <p>They are REALLY low because Obama isn’t really Black either, he’s Bi-Racial. He’s only Black by the ONE DROP RULE. Are you saying he’s more Black than White? I’m saying he might identify more with being Black than White because, Whites generally accept Bi-Racial Children more??? We all know that’s generally NOT TRUE. Are Whites going to accept Michelle Obama more because deep in her Family Tree a White Slave Owner is her Great Grandfather?</p> <p> Obama largely got elected because he had a Populace Message for Americans, that’s the ONLY reason. Remember Hilary was the all but assured the Winner… The fact he was a man of color MIGHT have gave him an edge and surely made him VERY popular overseas.</p> They are REALLY low because Obama isn’t really Black either, he’s Bi-Racial. He’s only Black by the ONE DROP RULE. Are you saying he’s more Black than White? I’m saying he might identify more with being Black than White because, Whites generally accept Bi-Racial Children more??? We all know that’s generally NOT TRUE. Are Whites going to accept Michelle Obama more because deep in her Family Tree a White Slave Owner is her Great Grandfather?

Obama largely got elected because he had a Populace Message for Americans, that’s the ONLY reason. Remember Hilary was the all but assured the Winner… The fact he was a man of color MIGHT have gave him an edge and surely made him VERY popular overseas.

]]> By: djfourmoney http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52835 djfourmoney Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:18:47 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52835 <p>Wrong we already have had two bills passed by both houses for Single Payer only to be vetoed on by the Governator, not the Republicans in Sacramento, otherwise they have NO power.</p> <p> We wouldn’t opt-in, this bill is trash, we would say -</p> <p> Arnold, sign SB810, your time in office is up anyway</p> <p> The Republican Party has limited strength in California, mostly in really rich areas (Orange County) or really rural areas. Obama as reawaken a Progressive movement here, that’s why we passed high speed rail.</p> <p> Prop 8 was poorly ran and thought to be a forgone conclusion, it wasn’t next time it comes up it will pass.</p> <p> Read My Keyboard - WE WILL HAVE UNIVERSAL, SINGLE PAYER, COST CONTROLLED HEALTH CARE before the rest of you get it. 2010 vs 2013, we’ll say “Thanks But No Thanks”</p> Wrong we already have had two bills passed by both houses for Single Payer only to be vetoed on by the Governator, not the Republicans in Sacramento, otherwise they have NO power.

We wouldn’t opt-in, this bill is trash, we would say -

Arnold, sign SB810, your time in office is up anyway

The Republican Party has limited strength in California, mostly in really rich areas (Orange County) or really rural areas. Obama as reawaken a Progressive movement here, that’s why we passed high speed rail.

Prop 8 was poorly ran and thought to be a forgone conclusion, it wasn’t next time it comes up it will pass.

Read My Keyboard – WE WILL HAVE UNIVERSAL, SINGLE PAYER, COST CONTROLLED HEALTH CARE before the rest of you get it. 2010 vs 2013, we’ll say “Thanks But No Thanks”

]]> By: slowereastside http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52677 slowereastside Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:42:21 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52677 <blockquote> <p>You’re talking about being realistic while pushing 676? 676 is great but it would not get 50 yays, let alone pass cloture</p></blockquote> <p>And America would never make a black guy named Hussein president. Got it. </p> <p>If you’re going to begin by selling the country short, of course you’re going to have low expectations.</p>

You’re talking about being realistic while pushing 676? 676 is great but it would not get 50 yays, let alone pass cloture

And America would never make a black guy named Hussein president. Got it.

If you’re going to begin by selling the country short, of course you’re going to have low expectations.

]]> By: marcos http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52672 marcos Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:29:59 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52672 <p>As far as drinking the Kool-Aid goes, its okay to set your sites for the Moon so long as you’ve got enough oxygen, fuel and navigation skills to get you there and back.</p> <p>Otherwise, you’re just wasting time.</p> As far as drinking the Kool-Aid goes, its okay to set your sites for the Moon so long as you’ve got enough oxygen, fuel and navigation skills to get you there and back.

Otherwise, you’re just wasting time.

]]> By: Frank33 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52671 Frank33 Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:27:17 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52671 <p>I am telling people the enemy is attacking, but they are cowards with their stealth attack. Come on Lobbyists, bring it to the public. Are you fraidy cats, PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL? What is that bottom feeder lobby firm with Lanny Davis, that is helping dictators?</p> <p>Charlie Rangle is the latest target. John Murtha, cosponsor of HR 676 is next. At least that is what my “Remote View” device has predicted.</p> I am telling people the enemy is attacking, but they are cowards with their stealth attack. Come on Lobbyists, bring it to the public. Are you fraidy cats, PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL? What is that bottom feeder lobby firm with Lanny Davis, that is helping dictators?

Charlie Rangle is the latest target. John Murtha, cosponsor of HR 676 is next. At least that is what my “Remote View” device has predicted.

]]> By: marcos http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52670 marcos Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:22:30 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/veal-pen-opt-out-gaining-steam-where/#comment-52670 <p>I agree that 676 is the way to go, but that’s not got any viability now and I don’t see any materalizing in the near term. </p> <p>There is so much in flux right now that the content and characteristics of PO in any bill are Rumsfeldian known unknowables. </p> <p>We do know that the Democrats are uniquely gifted with the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.</p> <p>A PO that is Medicare + 5 that is open to anyone would be an acceptable compromise from 676 at this point, as the solution carries a natural continuation to Medicare for all. If that was only attainable by an opt-out plan, so be it.</p> <p>The ongoing political task is to universalize the notion of Medicare for all, because that is a meme that is understood and conveys continuity.</p> I agree that 676 is the way to go, but that’s not got any viability now and I don’t see any materalizing in the near term.

There is so much in flux right now that the content and characteristics of PO in any bill are Rumsfeldian known unknowables.

We do know that the Democrats are uniquely gifted with the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

A PO that is Medicare + 5 that is open to anyone would be an acceptable compromise from 676 at this point, as the solution carries a natural continuation to Medicare for all. If that was only attainable by an opt-out plan, so be it.

The ongoing political task is to universalize the notion of Medicare for all, because that is a meme that is understood and conveys continuity.

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