Comments on: The Price of Public Option “Opt-Out”: Who Will Pay for Red State Folly? http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/ Politics for liberal newsgeeks Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:33:20 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: hopeless http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-53001 hopeless Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:57:02 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-53001 A friend of my on disability here in Texas just received a letter today saying that Texas has opted out of Medicare, that his future checks will be cut $400 this month, and $200 forevermore. He was making a little over a $1,000 a month before and barely making it. Now it will be something like $879 or something like that. How can people survive is my question? He was a NY City cop for years as well as a paramedic, in the military as a helicopter pilot, a professional photographer, and journalist, and NOW he's "useless" to Texas after a massive heart attack made him have to retire so he gets the shaft???? Yes, apparently. A friend of my on disability here in Texas just received a letter today saying that Texas has opted out of Medicare, that his future checks will be cut $400 this month, and $200 forevermore.

He was making a little over a $1,000 a month before and barely making it. Now it will be something like $879 or something like that. How can people survive is my question? He was a NY City cop for years as well as a paramedic, in the military as a helicopter pilot, a professional photographer, and journalist, and NOW he’s “useless” to Texas after a massive heart attack made him have to retire so he gets the shaft????

Yes, apparently.

]]> By: gamd521 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52898 gamd521 Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:45:56 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52898 <p>An aspect of the current debate pertaining to the PO , the single payer scheme and the private insurance scheme should be established. This is that if the PO is to function at all it will ultimately lead directly to a single payer scheme, and ultimately necessarily to supplant the private insurers. There is but one condition that the PO needs to satisfy, that it offer lower premiums than the private insurers. </p> <p>The polemic between those that argue for a PO plan now or a single payer scheme now becomes mute. The real polemic is between the private insurers and those aspiring to make the PO viable, because the two can not coexist.</p> <p>The argument is simple. For the PO to succeed it must offer premiums that are continually lower than private firms, As long as this holds there is no need for private insurance firm to exist and once this ceases to hold there is no need for the PO to exist. Stated differently, the PO exists if and only if the private insurers do not exist. .</p> An aspect of the current debate pertaining to the PO , the single payer scheme and the private insurance scheme should be established. This is that if the PO is to function at all it will ultimately lead directly to a single payer scheme, and ultimately necessarily to supplant the private insurers. There is but one condition that the PO needs to satisfy, that it offer lower premiums than the private insurers.

The polemic between those that argue for a PO plan now or a single payer scheme now becomes mute. The real polemic is between the private insurers and those aspiring to make the PO viable, because the two can not coexist.

The argument is simple. For the PO to succeed it must offer premiums that are continually lower than private firms, As long as this holds there is no need for private insurance firm to exist and once this ceases to hold there is no need for the PO to exist. Stated differently, the PO exists if and only if the private insurers do not exist. .

]]> By: mmogu77 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52889 mmogu77 Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:40:37 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52889 <p>For further discussion of how far some progressives are willing to bend over in support of the proposal for states to opt out of the public option see the Huffington Post: “AMERICA-STAN: The Progressive Movement Neuters Itself by Supporting ‘States Rights” to Opt out of the Public Option”</p> <p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/america-stan-the-progress_b_316030.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....16030.html</a></p> <p>The article also discusses how the Public Option has been turned into the “Public Option in Name Only.</p> For further discussion of how far some progressives are willing to bend over in support of the proposal for states to opt out of the public option see the Huffington Post: “AMERICA-STAN: The Progressive Movement Neuters Itself by Supporting ‘States Rights” to Opt out of the Public Option”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..16030.html

The article also discusses how the Public Option has been turned into the “Public Option in Name Only.

]]> By: roxsteady http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52866 roxsteady Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:16:12 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52866 <p>If they set up the public option so that all states have to take the public option and use it for say 3 years. Now, in that 3 years let’s say the public option is working fine. Then, let’s say at the end of the 3rd year, a red state wants to opt out. Fine, but the nationl rates will continue to be calculated as though all the states are still using it. In other word, the public option rates will always be based on all 50 states. As for the people in states who’s legislators want to opt out, it will be up to the citizens to stop them whether it’s through large protest or just getting someone to run against them who will vow to restor it. Since I live in New Jersey, I don’t really care what happens to these people. This is what happens when you VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN WHO CALLS HIMSELF A CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT! IT’S BASICALLY AN OXYMORON!</p> If they set up the public option so that all states have to take the public option and use it for say 3 years. Now, in that 3 years let’s say the public option is working fine. Then, let’s say at the end of the 3rd year, a red state wants to opt out. Fine, but the nationl rates will continue to be calculated as though all the states are still using it. In other word, the public option rates will always be based on all 50 states. As for the people in states who’s legislators want to opt out, it will be up to the citizens to stop them whether it’s through large protest or just getting someone to run against them who will vow to restor it. Since I live in New Jersey, I don’t really care what happens to these people. This is what happens when you VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN WHO CALLS HIMSELF A CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT! IT’S BASICALLY AN OXYMORON!

]]> By: Mile23 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52858 Mile23 Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:01:18 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52858 <p>There is only one argument you need to know when it comes to the ‘opt-out’ BS. Here it is:</p> <p>BUSINESSES WILL LEAVE STATES THAT DON’T HAVE A PUBLIC OPTION.</p> There is only one argument you need to know when it comes to the ‘opt-out’ BS. Here it is:

BUSINESSES WILL LEAVE STATES THAT DON’T HAVE A PUBLIC OPTION.

]]> By: melior http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52851 melior Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:30:17 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52851 <p>As a progressive in Texas, thank you, Jon.</p> As a progressive in Texas, thank you, Jon.

]]> By: djfourmoney http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52808 djfourmoney Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:41:22 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52808 <p>Look this whole debate is funny…</p> <p> Your talking about a GOP that still rooted in its racist ideology. They see the Obama Admin and Democrat controlled Congress as evil and the devil. The likelihood of Texas seceding was slim and none, Perry knows that. But as somebody else said, many state opt out of government programs. Look how many states had to fight their Governor to get Stimulus money or money for extended Unemployment Benefits?</p> <p> What makes you think they won’t try that same shit with Health Care Reform?</p> <p> What other solutions do you have for Red States? These places have small levels of Blue usually in Urban Areas (not sure you would call Tulsa an “Urban Area”)</p> <p> I wish some FDL’s would stop saying we have a Republican Governor, when Arnold has been “moderate” though he vetoed twice measures that would have give the State of California Single Payer Health Care, calling it “Socialized Medicine”.</p> <p> He is in the last months of his term, when it comes back to his desk in mid 2010, he’ll either sign it or the next Governor will, I can wait…</p> <p> Why not wait? The current bills won’t start until 2013, I’ll be forced to wait and like how many others feel, Americans will die in the meantime.</p> <p> You can want, want, want until your face turns blue, the reality on the ground says -</p> <p> We’ll get a watered down shitty bill</p> <p> It will have a federal mandate</p> <p> States will be allowed to Opt In/Out</p> <p> It will only cover 94% of the population even if everybody accepted it</p> <p> There are no real cost containment measures in it</p> <p> Its not true reform or Universal Coverage</p> <p> America lives in a Microwave Society… In Canada Universal Coverage didn’t happen overnight. I know many believe the United States is a great country, its not its a dysfunctional country.</p> <p> Any country that constantly plays hypocritical football with its constituency is dysfunctional. Truth and Righteousness is trumped by Ideology and Religious Oppression.</p> <p> Just look at what happens around you? You largely don’t have these same social problems in Western Europe. In countries like France, the French Government is scared of the people, they march, they strike, they throw molotov cocktails at the police…</p> <p> Here we have Northcom, we know if get out of line, the media won’t cover it and the Army will be put into an uncomfortable position of protecting the State/Federal Government from its Citizens and all you pro War types like unflinching soldiers. Well they won’t flinch when it comes to defended the Republic from one our outburst, they’ll shoot first and ask questions much later if at all.</p> <p> So as I said before, if you live in a State where its controlled by wingnuts from top to bottom; you two choices -</p> <p> Leave or Make Them Do What You Want</p> Look this whole debate is funny…

Your talking about a GOP that still rooted in its racist ideology. They see the Obama Admin and Democrat controlled Congress as evil and the devil. The likelihood of Texas seceding was slim and none, Perry knows that. But as somebody else said, many state opt out of government programs. Look how many states had to fight their Governor to get Stimulus money or money for extended Unemployment Benefits?

What makes you think they won’t try that same shit with Health Care Reform?

What other solutions do you have for Red States? These places have small levels of Blue usually in Urban Areas (not sure you would call Tulsa an “Urban Area”)

I wish some FDL’s would stop saying we have a Republican Governor, when Arnold has been “moderate” though he vetoed twice measures that would have give the State of California Single Payer Health Care, calling it “Socialized Medicine”.

He is in the last months of his term, when it comes back to his desk in mid 2010, he’ll either sign it or the next Governor will, I can wait…

Why not wait? The current bills won’t start until 2013, I’ll be forced to wait and like how many others feel, Americans will die in the meantime.

You can want, want, want until your face turns blue, the reality on the ground says -

We’ll get a watered down shitty bill

It will have a federal mandate

States will be allowed to Opt In/Out

It will only cover 94% of the population even if everybody accepted it

There are no real cost containment measures in it

Its not true reform or Universal Coverage

America lives in a Microwave Society… In Canada Universal Coverage didn’t happen overnight. I know many believe the United States is a great country, its not its a dysfunctional country.

Any country that constantly plays hypocritical football with its constituency is dysfunctional. Truth and Righteousness is trumped by Ideology and Religious Oppression.

Just look at what happens around you? You largely don’t have these same social problems in Western Europe. In countries like France, the French Government is scared of the people, they march, they strike, they throw molotov cocktails at the police…

Here we have Northcom, we know if get out of line, the media won’t cover it and the Army will be put into an uncomfortable position of protecting the State/Federal Government from its Citizens and all you pro War types like unflinching soldiers. Well they won’t flinch when it comes to defended the Republic from one our outburst, they’ll shoot first and ask questions much later if at all.

So as I said before, if you live in a State where its controlled by wingnuts from top to bottom; you two choices -

Leave or Make Them Do What You Want

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52799 SouthernDragon Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:36:47 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52799 <p>Just another troll.</p> <p>S<br /> C<br /> R<br /> O<br /> O<br /> L</p> Just another troll.

S
C
R
O
O
L

]]> By: Twain http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52776 Twain Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:19:56 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52776 <p>Marcos is having a wonderful time arguing. That’s it.</p> Marcos is having a wonderful time arguing. That’s it.

]]> By: Knoxville http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-opt-out-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52765 Knoxville Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:10:05 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/the-price-of-public-option-%e2%80%9copt-out%e2%80%9d-who-will-pay-for-red-state-folly/#comment-52765 <p>Glad I wasn’t the only one who felt like marcos was deliberately not understanding me!</p> <p>marcos @ 63</p> <blockquote><p>Voices count only when they’re organized</p></blockquote> <p>Sorry, marcos, but you seem more interested in creating phony controversies among us today than in contributing toward common goals, and I wonder how you expect the opinions of citizens to count when you’re here creating confusion with people whose goals are so similar to yours?</p> Glad I wasn’t the only one who felt like marcos was deliberately not understanding me!

marcos @ 63

Voices count only when they’re organized

Sorry, marcos, but you seem more interested in creating phony controversies among us today than in contributing toward common goals, and I wonder how you expect the opinions of citizens to count when you’re here creating confusion with people whose goals are so similar to yours?

]]>