Comments on: Rikyrah: Opt-Out States Are “Where the Majority of the Black Population in This Country Lives” http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/ Politics for liberal newsgeeks Sat, 18 Feb 2012 05:37:02 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52712 letsgetitdone Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:17:56 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52712 <p>I’m for defeating all the bills on the table right now. They are travesties. Giveaways to the companies.</p> I’m for defeating all the bills on the table right now. They are travesties. Giveaways to the companies.

]]> By: TPAZ http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52553 TPAZ Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:46:54 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52553 <p>Before the true progressives in congress let a bad bill becomes law, they should kill it with the understanding that it will be the litmus test for the 2010 elections. Also, in 2010, the progressives introduce legislation to reinstitute the draft. If congress will not defund the war, then have every American vote on both issues. I’m willing to bet the draft will lose and healthcare will win at the polls. We trade healthcare for war. The only other option is to organize national strikes for healthcare. The President will weigh which battle will cost him less political capital. It’s hardball, to be sure, but that is where we are.</p> <p>Give us real healthcare reform in 2009 or face radicalize voters reacting to conscription or war defunding in 2010.</p> Before the true progressives in congress let a bad bill becomes law, they should kill it with the understanding that it will be the litmus test for the 2010 elections. Also, in 2010, the progressives introduce legislation to reinstitute the draft. If congress will not defund the war, then have every American vote on both issues. I’m willing to bet the draft will lose and healthcare will win at the polls. We trade healthcare for war. The only other option is to organize national strikes for healthcare. The President will weigh which battle will cost him less political capital. It’s hardball, to be sure, but that is where we are.

Give us real healthcare reform in 2009 or face radicalize voters reacting to conscription or war defunding in 2010.

]]> By: TomWells http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52436 TomWells Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:35:57 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52436 <p>Excellent post, Jane. It is a civil rights issue.</p> Excellent post, Jane. It is a civil rights issue.

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52390 letsgetitdone Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:03:09 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52390 <p>TPAZ, if you know a way to stop dancing around the central issue and bring Medicare for All, HR 676 to the fore so that it really gets fully debated nationally instead of getting dismissed with some slogans and marginalized I’m all for it. But when even Jane, NYCEve, and Marcy Wheeler, not to mention the President and the Congress and the major well-funded “progressive” voluntary associations continue to take it off the table, then Medicare for All Advocates such as ralphbon and I occasionally have to do some dancing around to try to get it back on.</p> TPAZ, if you know a way to stop dancing around the central issue and bring Medicare for All, HR 676 to the fore so that it really gets fully debated nationally instead of getting dismissed with some slogans and marginalized I’m all for it. But when even Jane, NYCEve, and Marcy Wheeler, not to mention the President and the Congress and the major well-funded “progressive” voluntary associations continue to take it off the table, then Medicare for All Advocates such as ralphbon and I occasionally have to do some dancing around to try to get it back on.

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52381 letsgetitdone Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:56:16 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52381 <p>I don’t. This is a time when the crazies are in the ascendant. But turning down the PO while continuing to pay for it, is so profoundly stupid that I really think these yahoos will do it. Symbolic protest is one thing. Denying your citizens something concrete like choice in order make such a protest is not something that too many Governors or legislatures will do. But again, we can put in a fail safe requiring confirmation that 50% of the population agrees the Governor or legislature.</p> I don’t. This is a time when the crazies are in the ascendant. But turning down the PO while continuing to pay for it, is so profoundly stupid that I really think these yahoos will do it. Symbolic protest is one thing. Denying your citizens something concrete like choice in order make such a protest is not something that too many Governors or legislatures will do. But again, we can put in a fail safe requiring confirmation that 50% of the population agrees the Governor or legislature.

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52376 letsgetitdone Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:51:18 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52376 <p>The present POs on the table are real giveaways to the insurance companies, because their POs are too weak to survive. If we can get a much stronger PO in return for an opt-out provision, let’s do it, so long as we also have an opt-in provision for Medicare for the under 65, and some of the other safeguards I’ve specified above.</p> <p>I think it all comes down to what the Red State Senators are willing to pay for getting the opt-out. If they’re willing to pay nothing except voting for the final weak bills we have now, I say let’s defeat those bad bills, and come back next year when their jobs are on the line. If they’re willing to sweeten the pot so that the PO in it is a Jacob Hacker type of PO, along with a Medicare option for States so-inclined, I’d give ‘em their opt-out</p> The present POs on the table are real giveaways to the insurance companies, because their POs are too weak to survive. If we can get a much stronger PO in return for an opt-out provision, let’s do it, so long as we also have an opt-in provision for Medicare for the under 65, and some of the other safeguards I’ve specified above.

I think it all comes down to what the Red State Senators are willing to pay for getting the opt-out. If they’re willing to pay nothing except voting for the final weak bills we have now, I say let’s defeat those bad bills, and come back next year when their jobs are on the line. If they’re willing to sweeten the pot so that the PO in it is a Jacob Hacker type of PO, along with a Medicare option for States so-inclined, I’d give ‘em their opt-out

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52375 letsgetitdone Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:38:01 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52375 <p>Or in my own variation of this proposal, give a State the right for its under 65 citizens to opt-in to the actual National Medicare program. That should finish any possible race to the bottom.</p> Or in my own variation of this proposal, give a State the right for its under 65 citizens to opt-in to the actual National Medicare program. That should finish any possible race to the bottom.

]]> By: letsgetitdone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52373 letsgetitdone Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:32:15 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52373 <p>The PO in such a program would be Federal in nature, and uniform in all States that did not opt-out. As I understand it, the States opting out get no advantage from doing so. They just get to pay employer-mandated taxes and individual mandated fees and give up an individual choice for every one of their citizens. They win nothing, they lose something. Opting out is a symbolic gesture having no benefits for one’s State.</p> <p>Finally, put in the fail-safe I talked about above. Give States an opt-out to be exercised in the following way: the Governor can propose the opt-out, but the opt-out has to be confirmed by a sample survey performed by HHS civil servants (i.e. no private companies or contractors allowed) in which more than 50% of a stratified random sample gave support to the Governor’s proposal. Thereafter, HHS would perform such surveys annually, and a State would be considered to have “opted-in” when a majority of its people as indicated by the results of the survey were again in favor of the PO.</p> The PO in such a program would be Federal in nature, and uniform in all States that did not opt-out. As I understand it, the States opting out get no advantage from doing so. They just get to pay employer-mandated taxes and individual mandated fees and give up an individual choice for every one of their citizens. They win nothing, they lose something. Opting out is a symbolic gesture having no benefits for one’s State.

Finally, put in the fail-safe I talked about above. Give States an opt-out to be exercised in the following way: the Governor can propose the opt-out, but the opt-out has to be confirmed by a sample survey performed by HHS civil servants (i.e. no private companies or contractors allowed) in which more than 50% of a stratified random sample gave support to the Governor’s proposal. Thereafter, HHS would perform such surveys annually, and a State would be considered to have “opted-in” when a majority of its people as indicated by the results of the survey were again in favor of the PO.

]]> By: TPAZ http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52372 TPAZ Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:27:47 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52372 <p>Why are we dancing around the central issue like Tom Delay on two bad feet. The existing Medicare system is the easiest, most cost efficient path to take to provide medical access to all Americans. </p> <p>Insurance coverage and medical access are deliberately conflated to postpone spending money on the poor.</p> <p>Everything else is political gymnastics and mental masturbation.</p> Why are we dancing around the central issue like Tom Delay on two bad feet. The existing Medicare system is the easiest, most cost efficient path to take to provide medical access to all Americans.

Insurance coverage and medical access are deliberately conflated to postpone spending money on the poor.

Everything else is political gymnastics and mental masturbation.

]]> By: marcos http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52371 marcos Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:27:06 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/08/rikyrah-opt-out-states-are-where-the-majority-of-the-black-population-in-this-country-lives/#comment-52371 <blockquote><p>I think State Governments are very unlikely to cut off their noses to spite their faces.</p></blockquote> <p>Don’t misunderestimate the ability of the true believer to stand on the railroad tracks as the train comes barreling down at them repeating “this is not happening, this is not happening.”</p>

I think State Governments are very unlikely to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

Don’t misunderestimate the ability of the true believer to stand on the railroad tracks as the train comes barreling down at them repeating “this is not happening, this is not happening.”

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