win?

of course, no pun intended ;)

Ah, I was wondering when Jane would notice this.

One interesting side effect: Businesses would avoid those opt-out states like the plague. Think that Toyota would open any more factories in Kentucky if that state eschewed the PO?

This this only works Jane if there kids get the same welfare benefits through 2 preferably 3 generations as the parents in the state that had them had. But I am down with it do you have any numbers I can laugh at?

Oh my bro might be here at 10 or 11 if you can stick around he’s nothing like me if you push him:)
I’m not sure if thats a compliment

No straight to Illinois kids like me had the chance in high school to learn metals 4. I only got to metals 2 (sob)

Count the number of veal pen residents, their consultants, their assignees and of course their “fellows” who emerge to carry Rahm’s water.

You could be watching Thantos the death instinct as a culture in action this is not good for America if we lose but watching the Chimp and his effect could help anthropology.

Lower education spending less kids in college, greater number of teen moms factor in the moms on welfare, the number of men married who might have gone to college? Sounds like a great post or a book?

SnarkCassie might have an insight on this talk to her. She might be Pres someday?

sounds like Tom Carper drank 3 bottles of Jack every day of his pregnancy before delivering this grotesque

my initial thought is this is something they may be able to sell to Labor – although I thought their plan all along was to get EFCA and go back to serious organizing in the South – god my head is swimmiing. would Nevada opt out ?

What a GOP presidential contender with a brown woman won’t frak out the Tea baggers Does Mark even speak spanish? When he was saying go back to your husband at the bar?
Sorry Trendy Bars in Illinois tend to kick out bible preacher types, bad for business I think Argentina is the same
is it that way in Texas?

Jane,

what about the Stakeholders ? If the object all along was to keep them happy and out of GOP coffers by not getting to a real PO – how in the world could a national PO satisfy them ??

hey, already said I was a mess

oh and p effin’ s, it’s probably a damn good thing I cannot comment over at Big Orange – because there are diaries filled with self styled progressives laughing their asses off about the rubes and rednecks who will no doubt ‘opt out’. never mind that they miss Jane’s rather large point about corrupt Legist. these people are actually having a good time and snarking at the potential continued misery of their fellow citizens – uneffingbelievable -

Jane can you call out Rahm for not being a real Chi town pol like da mayor he’s Embarrassing us!
I don’t want the ladies to think I have no game!

because there are diaries filled with self styled progressives laughing their asses off about

Sorry I know rubes and rednecks and I know scammers Rahm can’t fool anyone. His game is lame!

The poll numbers back me up despite how lopsided the MSm has been we still are gaining ground?

Look if our Dems fold we need to say I told you so

One interesting side effect: Businesses would avoid those opt-out states like the plague. Think that Toyota would open any more factories in Kentucky if that state eschewed the PO?

My thoughts exactly.

OK we now have a meme to get to the mainstream media!

ok, it’s about an hour later and the outrage seems to have diminished somewhat – is this a defacto up n down vote ? even if it were it would then still be all about electoral politics and not about providing relief to millions of struggling and hurting american families

alrighty then – there go the cortisol levels – and the bp – need to bug out

Actually, I wouldn’t mind if Texas opted out. Would save the rest of us dollars, and counts as Just Retribution for wreaking W upon us. (Of course, we’d have to move the Immigrant Fence north a bit.) Think we can get CBO to do the metrics on that? And maybe throw in Alaska, just for shits and grins?

Jane H., Coming closer to giving my my suggestion some thought?
You’ve fought a passionate, inspiring battle but this morning’s NYT piece by PEAR and HERSZENHORN is pretty clear. The White House p.r. machine has has hit the streets running. I can’t imagine why anyone would believe Rahm is any more moral than Karl Rove.
I hope you’ll consider shifting gears. We gave the Democratic Party a clear majority to reinstill hope & effect real change. IF the Baucus Plan is the best it wants to do, the party is beyond resuscitation. The odds may have shifted against us, but I’m still betting on the longshot – that Obama doesn’t have enough chips to buy Rockefeller & Wyden on this one.
The question is, what then?

Jane, I had mixed feelings about this one and decided to wait until this morning to reply. Of course, it’s not right to:

“Fuck those poor people who live in Republican states easily bought off by corrupt legislatures.”

However, would a bill that provides a PO open to everybody, with an opt-out provision at the state level, be an improvement over the present insurance situation? I think it would, depending on the type of PO involved.

On the other hand, why is this surfacing now? Probably because some Republicans or Blue Dogs actually are now afraid that we’ll get into the end zone, so they’re throwing up a fail safe to at least be able to say that they got something valuable for the insurers.

But, if this is the situation, then how should progressives in and out of the Congress respond to the proposal?

I think they ought to respond with what they might consider in return for accepting an opt-out, and propose the following as a possible compromise:

1) An opt-in for States to extend the right to their under 65 citizens to buy into Medicare in place of the PO system?

2) Subsidies for people under a certain income who want to migrate from one State to another to take advantage of either the PO or the Medicare options

3) A guarantee from the blue dogs and any Republicans proposing the compromise that they will vote against cloture and also vote for the final bill.

If the people seeking a compromise are willing to do that, then the progressives ought to go back and see whether they have, or don’t have the votes for a PO bill. They also have to consider what kind of PO bill it is. If it’s like HR 3200 restricted only to individuals who can’t get insurance through employment, then the above compromise is a better bill than an HR 3200 type bill, even if it will end up excluding certain states from coverage, and is certainly a lot better than nothing.

Finally, and I don’t think I can emphasize this too heavily. If we have a good bill to begin with (which I don’t believe we yet have), and we may be able to get the votes to pass it, we should never pre-compromise. Any proposal that provides an opt-out choice at the State level, also restricts individual choice, and so will be unpopular with people. We can’t forget that, and should never make such a compromise except as a last resort. Since we are far from the last resort right now, any such compromise is premature, at least.

Right on Jane, but remember that all of this comes from the people, that people elected to office. Their paid representatives, that no longer represent them but decide for them, based on who paid them the most.
Until the American people wake up to the fact that the real terrorists are the people in Congress, we stand no chance.
These people, Our Congress, some different people at a different time, set up the insurance based healthcare we all enjoy. They have fought to let it become what it has. They have refused to regulate, control, or even question much of what they do. Yet now we are looking to them to fix healthcare, and will have to live with what they give us.
People can’t see that the Congress has caused every problem this country has. They even caused the housing and banking crisis’s by providing the opportunity for the crooks to make it happen. They voted for and funded the wars. They stole the money from the SS fund. They ran up the debt. They haven’t fixed one problem, but make more daily.
Yet we and the Media treat them as if they were our Gods, and listen to their every word. We support them, re-elect them, and let them do to us waht ever they want. They tell us, and we believe, that we have the best Government in the world. It’s cover for the fact our Government doesn’t work. The people in it, the systems they use, and most of the departments. The military has raped this nation, while not protecting us at Pearl Harbor or 911, and we all three hundred million of us could be billionaires at what it cost, with enough left to still have supported a good military.
What will it take for the Aeerican people to wake up, and say enough is enough. Only after we follow Rome, will the light bulbs go off in peoples minds.