They are following Rahms request to not target dems. I think they should be going after the recalcitrant dems.
I have to question why they seem to ramp up the ad placement on the Ed, Olberman and Rachel shows. Isn’t that preaching to the choir?

Are these HCAN people bought and paid for, or are they just stupid? What good can possibly come out of expending scarce financial resources on something that won’t change a thing? Conversely, why make the idiotic decision not to target those same resources where they might actually do some good? Breathtakingly stupid.

Yeah, seems outside the scope of fighting for health reform.

Looks like Wyden and Jay Rock are dragging their feet on the insurance giveaway bill in the Finance Committee:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02002.html

- Tom

More money than sense.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

This shit is what has had me confused for the last few weeks…unstead of building your strengths when you have the advantage against a larger (read wealthier) foe, the few folks with muscle (read money) on our side are wastin’ it on votes we will never get. And as for effective general political attacks, you don’t start another war until ya win the one yer in. GEEzus, if the people and progressives win on the public option, then there won’t need to be attack ads against opponents who are already dead meat in the next election.

What am I missin’ here, Sister Jane, are we so experienced with losin’ that we’re afraid to win??!!!

I’m confused.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION, WHEN YA GOT ‘EM BY THE BALLS DON’T KISS ‘EM ON THE CHEEK!!

As a political attack ad, however, it’s probably effective. Ensign is on the ropes as disclosures about his extramarital affair leak out, so even if this ad does absolutely nothing for health care reform, it helps the Democratic party.

Exactly. Keeping the perfidy of Ensign, in whatever form, is never a wasted effort, imo.

P.S. Didn’t I hear Obama this morning, while talking to doctors and nurses, talk about “Insurance Exchanges” as opposed to a public option?

I think HCAN’s strategy makes sense.

The best way to keep the pressure – and that hot potato of not being the Democrat to tell the American people that their leaders are going to fail them on getting real health care reform – red hot is to focus on conservative districts and red states and to show that even people in Republican strongholds can be won over by this issue.

Sleazy Ensign won’t vote for real health care reform.

But if HCAN’s ads can move the polls and show that the people of Nevada aren’t with him, that’s great!

Besides, the Republicans need to motive their base to win in 2010. Why not try to deflate their mojo with a winning issue like a public health insurance option?

Strange headline. We are a c4 and got a c4 grant from Atlantic, so we can legally run these kinds of ads. As for the strategy, we’ve run ads against Democrats and Republicans in the recent past and I’m sure there will be more to come.

The argument that GOPs are in the way of health care reform obscures the reality that ConservaDems are the actual obstructionists of Public Option. Why would HCAN want to make that argument? More importantly, whom does that argument benefit?

With the situation that Ensign is in, he certainly is not going to vote against his own party interest. This is a total waste of money unless the aim is to get him out of office which doesn’t help the PO vote right now. The Blue Dems should be hammered every day.

I see three different HCAN ads several times a day in Tennessee, home of Lamar Alexander and Bob Corker. And these ads are running in TN-2, Congressman Jimmy Duncan’s district.

I don’t think running the ads is about winning the votes.

I think it’s about winning the people and moving the polls.

And I think it’s working!

A week and a half ago, Howard Dean came here. He was heckled while he was speaking, and the audience – Cox Auditorium filled beyond capacity, all Tennesseans from Duncan’s district – booed the heckler down and applauded Dean’s response to her.

Another one tried it during Q & A (heckling from the audience because, apparently, too afraid to go up to the mic), and the people in this heavily conservative district again booed her down.

Folks should watch this again if they need their engines filled with fuel

Wendell Potter with Bill Moyers…listen again and spread around

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..watch.html

BILL MOYERS: As this debate unfolds in the next month, into the fall, what should we be watching for? Tell us as an insider what to look for that is more than meets the eye?

WENDELL POTTER: When we see the actual legislation, when there’s something before Congress, and it will happen, presumably, within the next few weeks, you’ll start seeing a lot more criticism of it. And the special interests will be attacking this or that. The AMA will be upset about something. The pharmaceutical industry will be upset about something. The insurance industry will not like this or that. It’s, you know, a lot of money is made in this country off of sick people. And then you’ll start seeing a lot more of the behind-the-scenes attacks on this legislation, in an attempt to kill it. The status quo is what would work best for these industries.

BILL MOYERS: In other words, if the industry is able to kill reform, or the Democrats and the Republicans can’t agree on a proposal, that’s what the industry really wants.

WENDELL POTTER: Exactly. And it happened in ‘93 and ‘94. And just about every time there has been significant legislation before Congress, the industry has been able to kill it. Yeah, the status quo works for them. They don’t like to have any regulation forced on them or laws forced on them. They don’t want to have any competition from the federal government, or any additional regulation from the federal government. They say they will accept it. But the behavior is that they will not– you know, they’ll not do anything after say this plan fails. Say nothing happens. They’re saying now what they did in ‘93, ‘94. “We think preexisting conditions is a bad thing,” for example. Let’s watch and see if they really take the initiative to do anything constructive. I bet you won’t see it. They didn’t then.

BILL MOYERS: Well, on the basis of the past performance, and on the basis of your own experience in the industry, can we believe them when they say they will do these things voluntarily?

WENDELL POTTER: I don’t think you can. I think that they will implement things that make them more efficient. And that enhance shareholder value. And if what they do contributes to that, maybe so. But now, they do say, they are in favor of an individual mandate. They want us all to be insured.

BILL MOYERS: For the government to require every one of us to have some policy.

WENDELL POTTER: Exactly. And that sounds great. It is an important thing that everyone be enrolled in some kind of a benefit plan. They don’t want a public plan. They want all the uninsured to have to be enrolled in a private insurance plan. They want– they see those 50 million people as potentially 50 million new customers. So they’re in favor of that. They see this as a way to essentially lock them into the system, and ensure their profitability in the future. The strategy is as it was in 1993 and ‘94, to conduct this charm offensive on the surface. But behind the scenes, to use front groups and third-party advocates and ideological allies. And those on Capitol Hill who are aligned with them, philosophically, to do the dirty work. To demean and scare people about a government-run plan, try to make people not even remember that Medicare, their Medicare program, is a government-run plan that has operated a lot more efficiently.

And also, the people who are enrolled in our Medicare plan like it better. The satisfaction ratings are higher in our Medicare program, a government-run program, than in private insurance. But they don’t want you to remember that or to know that, and they want to scare you into thinking that through the anecdotes they tell you, that any government-run system, particularly those in Canada, and UK, and France that the people are very unhappy.

And that these people will have to wait in long lines to get care, or wait a long time to get care. I’d like to take them down to Wise County. I’d like the president to come down to Wise County, and see some real lines of Americans, standing in line to get their care.

BILL MOYERS: Wendell Potter thank you very much for being with me on the Journal

WENDELL POTTER: Thank you for inviting me.

Citizen jayt:

It doesn’t matter what words Obama uses to public constituencies that may or may not be supportive of the public option…what is important is buildin’ the strength of those progressives in both houses who have the muscle right now to win this thing…Obama has made himself irrelevant in this fight and that’s why progressives need to use their meager resources on ammunition for this battle and not on wars that won’t hafta be fought if we win this one.

Ensign isn’t up for reelection until 2012. At this point he is probably more concerned about surviving ethics com. and DOJ investigations.

They just don’t understand what is going on. They are happily in self destruct mode and I suspect it is because they believe that they will get a government bailout. Too bad they are so misguided. The insurance industry doesn’t have any happy employees now that they are killing them too. Every insurance company employee that does a real job can go to work for the government soon and monitor the real health care that will come to every one of us via Medicare. Then the insurance company will have nothing but chiefs. It is time to end insurance and it’s perceived mandate. Insurance is for the people that commit fraud. It does nothing for anyone else. Insurance allows idiots to rebuild their homes every year in the Mississippi flood plain. Insurance dictates how many will die.
Haven’t we had enough of a criminal conspiracy controlling our lives?

“to push President Obama and members of Congress to support a health plan that covers all Americans, includes a government-run insurance program, and makes medical services more accessible to minorities and poor people.”

hey Jane, which of your ameliorative ‘politically feasible’ health insurance reform plans even comes close to this description?

sounds kind of like they pitched in $25million in support of the bill-which-pragmatic-progressives-cannot-advocate-for, the un-Serious HR 676!

Do you think he has to repay his mommy and daddy all that money they gave to his mistress and her family? Maybe he has to worry about that, too.

I think HCAN has the wrong Nevada senator in its sights:

Well, I will admit to not being the political equivalent of Sun Tzu when it comes poltical strategy, but I think running ads attacking Harry Reid at this particular time might not be where wisdom lies.

Well in the finance committee he introduced an amendment chastising Obama for having Czars maybe is fled to some alternate universe.

I guess they are in the veal pen too.

Citizen sporkovat:

I think that for once you may be on to sumpthin’…Rahm’s triangulation needs Republican votes, that’s what this entire kabuki walz has been about. The only way they can kill the public option now is with REPUBLICAN votes along with a few Blue Dogs. And that is why it is important to build the strength of the progressive caucuses against their leadreship and spend our meager resources puttin the Blue Dogs back in the kennel.

Yeah, I guess the headline doesn’t really reflect what I took to be the gist of the article. I think the question is, what’s the point of spending the money targeting a guy we clearly won’t win over, when there are some people for whom the money might be better spent.

My question is why Ensign instead of Reid?

Reid could possibly do the right thing… Ensign… not so much.

They could have just handed the money to the Blue Dogs since they are for sale.

Zen moment. The answer is in the question.

sounds kind of like they pitched in $25million in support of the bill-which-pragmatic-progressives-cannot-advocate-for, the un-Serious HR 676!

lol. not the policy. not the bill. just the rhetoric. nyceve nailed it more than a year ago (from july 2008):

The statement of common purpose of HCAN, sounds okay, but in fact it’s deceptive and it’s co-opting the rhetoric of the single-payer movement.

Firepup Freedom Fighters:

We are back to the position that real healthcare reform can only be defeated by a few DEMOCRATS and a solid Republican voting block. Obamarama has been tryin’ to get ANY Republican votes for ANYthin’ that isn’t the public option, but the fuckers are so stupid they think that Obama is gunna kill healthcare reform all by himself. That’s why keepin’ the heat on DEMOCRATS and givin’ money to progressives to protect them from their leadership is so important…this is real politics…the progressives need to leverage the strength of the mass of voters against the power of money. It doesn’t get any better’n this.

Because it would be extraordinaily counterproductive.
At this point, Reid is on the record in support of the public option. Why would we start running ads in Nevada attacking him?
I would agree the ads attacking Ensign are a waste of money.

You don’t have to attack Reid, but encourage. His “support” is weak at best.

…the progressives need to leverage the strength of the mass of voters against the power of money.

Eggsactly!

In fact, I think that is the primary purpose of a democratic government in a capitalistic society. Big corporations wield tremendous power and we, as individuals, would be powerless against them. But when we pool our resources through a strong, democratic government we have a counter-balance to the enormous wealth and power of corporations.

I am all for encouraging him.

i gotta to give it to jane and chris for the progressive block (both the idea and the work to help make it happen). if they can hold together, progressives can (as the damn blue dogs have done) join with the Rs to defeat legislation progressives don’t like. btw, although it was mostly under the radar, it happened twice during the 110th congress’ fisa fight (oct 17, 2007 and feb 13, 2008)

Me too.. far more than asking Ensign to do anything other than resign.

There is nothing pending that requires any republican votes, right? So is this all a nice dance lesson where the D’s are purposely selling us down the river only to destroy the R’s?
Harry Reid is a lobbyist now, nothing else. It may not be his choice, but he has only one chance to get his seat back. He can only win reelection by backing the public option in a big way. But the real question is, does he care?

Fair question, I can bring it up to people I work with.

Norske @ 27

Norske, you have been asking some damned interesting questions today.

I wonder if you will get any interesting answers?

Your statement at #27, politically and practically, describes this moment, in America, most precisely.

Your comment about losing for so long that actually winning doesn’t seem a viable “option” is spot on, and may well explain some of the “confusion” apparent lately …

DW

Ensign is the poster boy for the logic and morality of those opposing healthcare reform. Ensign is an amoral asshat whose loyalty to his corporate paymasters and his brethren in the cult that is “The Family” trumps any loyalty to his constituents. His indifference, even disdain, for the law should be crystal clear to all. Is his fellow R, Senate Finance Committee member, Coburn any better? These are the paragons of virtue fighting against heathcare reform. We need more such ads targeting these assholes. Let the public see who is dancing to the healthcare and pharma lobby tunes.

Then what are you telling me for, shouldn’t you be writing them?

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but Atlantic Philanthropies donated the money to further health care reform, not bash Republicans.

If HCAN and Atlantic Philanthropies are now operating as organizations that seek to influence electoral politics, they should be organized as a PAC or a 527. While it may be technically legal to run this ad as a 501c4, it has nothing to do with furthering the health care debate and everything to do with beating up the GOP.

A fine goal, just not what anyone thought HCAN or Atlantic Philanthropies were set up to do.

gilding the lilly and a waste of money (money that real allies like CPC could be using)

Kaiser Family Foundation released it’s latest last week and almost 60% of the folks polled named ‘politics’ as the sole reason for GOP obstruction – IOW, voters already know this

I think at this point it’s safe to say that if given the alternative of no public option in the final bill, that HCAN would push for what’s left in it.

I think they think like Obama thinks which is “who gives a smeg about the little people.”

Thank you for so clearly spelling this out.

They NEED to be called out on this wasted effort.

Like the deal with Pharma/Ins/Big Med that Rahm/Obama made, it would seem the entire fight on behalf of WH and cronies like HCAN and Atl. Phil. is all about beating Repubs, NOT winning a healthcare reform plan that will cover the people, and compete with the monopolies of the insurance comanies and their cohorts.

What these asshats don’t realize while they are pandering to the HUGE amounts of lobby money available, is that the blowback from a failed fully formed public option is gonna sink the Dem’s in 2010 AND 2012. Sink them HARD.

It’s all insane, and the big corps win no matter WHO’S in the WH or Congress.

Way to call this for what it is Mz. Hamsher, just another bullet to the head to kill real reform of any sorts.

How about spending that $25 million on media ads, Jason, to INSIST and DEMAND what the majority of the nations voters want! Blast mandates, fight FOR full care NOW, without preexisting, without useless co-ops or useless state plans. No layered premiums based on ages, genders, or pre or existing conditions.

Government run under medicare and medicaid. With EVERYONE eligible to switch to it if they don’t like their present coverage.

THAT’S $25 million spent, I could get behind. As it is, HCAN is shilling for a failed reform effort at large. Huh, wonder why . . . .

Good point. The Republicans are not the problem here (much as the Democrats would like you to believe otherwise). At least not the problem we most need to work on and the problem we have the best chance of succeeding with.

We have a supermajority in the Senate and a huge advantage in the House. It’s the Democrats who we need to be pressuring.

Also, why did HCAN and other progressive organizations not organize a rally in Washington, with coordinated/synchronized rallies around the country? We gave these people money to help us achieve our goals and they can’t even come up with a decent rally organization? Are these organizations hoping that they can keep people from pressuring the president for a real Medicare public option?

thanks for that link, selise. that one was bang on.

after Obama has demonstrated the huge gap between rhetoric and action, fellow traveler groups like MoveOn and HCAN should be on notice that walking the talk is what matters.

I think the commenters are extremely narrowly focused. What state is Ensign from? Who is the OTHER Senator from that state? And how dependent on that other Senator is the entire Public Option effort? To me, it is Obvious that the real target of those ads is Harry Grow-a-Pair Reid. To the extent those ads keep support for the PO strong among his voters (as measured by the endless private polling he does), they will steel his wishy-washy resolve to follow up on the commitments he made privately to home-state voters to include a PO in the final Senate bill. Remember, we still don’t have a Public commitment from Reid, one way or the other. I think HCAN was extremely sagacious and subtle in this ad campaign.

Moreover, they are one organization that is actually putting boots on the ground, in my area at least.

From an e-mail I got today:

“Dear Friends,

Tomorrow Tuesday, October 6, at 11:30 am at 1601 Chestnut Street in Philadelphia to we are going back to CIGNA’s world head quarters in Philadelphia to protest business practices that deny people insurance coverage and health care and their political efforts to block health care reform. A few of us are going to risk arrest by blocking the doors to CIGNA’s lobby. We need as many of you as possible to join us and show support for this action. Please RSVP here. We are not eager to engage in civil disobedience. We have been organizing for months, built a huge campaign and have had a clear impact on our Senators and Representatives. But what we have seen in the last few months from the opponents of health care reform, who are partly financed by health insurance companies, is a campaign of deceit, lies and distortions. Our opponents have not been successful in stopping good health care reform legislation. But the charges and counter-charges have lead all of us to lose sight of the fundamental moral issue that should be at the heart of this debate.

The cause for which we fighting is a moral truth that is so hard and clear that it shines like a beautiful diamond struggling to be seen in a piece of black coal: everyone in America deserves good health care they can afford.

So please come out to support those of us willing to risk arrest to stand up for this principle tomorrow.

And, to learn more about health care, come hear T.R. Reid, author of a wonderful book about health care in America and around the world, The Healing of America, at the Ethical Culture Society, Rittenhouse Square South near 19th street, tonight from 5:00-8:00 pm

Thanks for all you do.

Marc”

So let’s stop the internecine sniping, and support each other’s varying methods to achieve the same goal.

See my post above. HCAN is doing plenty. Join their mailing list and you will be included.

I absolutely agree. These ads are all about keeping the polling numbers strong, so the weak-kneed Senators have some cover. The campaign finance laws say you have to couch the ad in certain terms as “issue advocacy” – but HCAN couldn’t care less if they have an effect on Ensign.

Our opponents have not been successful in stopping good health care reform legislation

nope, it is the supposed allies who have been successful in stopping good health care reform legislation, and substituting a big kabuki charade of health insurance reform legislation.

please explain how the “he cause for which we fighting … the moral truth” etc is embodied in the actual legislation that congressional Democrats are working on?