hey Andy, since when is it ok to have Right-To-Die states ?!?!?

fuckwad sellout

wow, heartening to think we might be making *some* kind of impression out here in the great unwashed masses section of the cheap seat bleachers!

actually, this might have interesting consequences: if you live in a neanderthal state and have no access to the public option that the neighbouring progressive state has … it would further damage the conservatives, I think.

a poison pill, of sorts.

The best thing I see about this is that *certain state legislators* will be replaced when people realize they were thrown to the wolves for party and corporate campaign money.

Reader, I agree…I have long favored making conservatives face voters on matters like this…notice how utterly obsequeious Georgia Republican Representatives became last week after the flooding in Georgia? These generally nasty repugnant knuckle-draggers were utterly effusive in their polite pronouncements praising and thanking Obama and FEMA…

I can see the same financial interests that have made most of the same states whose legislatures would be against a PO anti-union pressuring the state to allow the PO if it ended up being cheaper for them to operate.

Alan Grayson is on MSNBC with Ed right now.

Thanks for the comment on my Reid letter. What email address do you use to send him your letters?

I love all of this.

It shows how broken and corrupted the House and Senate are.

I hope we have this sort of thing going forward.

In that case, enough Americans will drop out or rebel to make a difference.

Meantime, the scene is active enough to entertain one who drinks.

Ir just might work. The sad news is the deep south is so parochial many of the lockstep right wing voters will not even be aware of how far behind they are being left. For years the workers and families in the Sunbelt have been underpaid and under insured. Too many unable or unwilling to get out and know the difference.

Yes of course it is up to us locals to end this hideous worship of states’ rights but still sad for me to see how my neighbors are misused. I am a Democrat living in one of the few counties that actually increased the GOP vote this past election. .. to as I recall close to 90%.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Jon Walker and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

There is a post up at Kos quoting Sen. Harkin as sayin that not only would there be NO Republicans in the conference that merges the healthcare bills together but “…any bill that passes congress will include a government run insurance option for Americans to buy.” Period, end of discussion. Of course the question is whether or not the White House will squeeze the Democrats and Joe Likuderman to get 60 votes to cloture the debate…my guess is that there will be a couple a Republicans (read BFF’s Colins and Snowe)that vote cloture too in order to give comfort to the bastard Senator from Conn.

The White House is not expendin ANY energy to get the final bill to the floor but you ken bet that they will go all in for whatever gets voted on…Obama loses if there is not healthcare reform of some kind and if the Senate gets a bill to the floor with the public option then the Darkman’s ass will be on the line for it.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS ONE IS OURS TO LOOSE!!

It would be very interesting to see the results of those votes for sure.

Hey, this was my idea. I floated it on Talk of the Nation about a month ago. I said that there should be a “federalist compromise” to see if the Repubs are on the level.
Honestly though, the suggestion was a Trojan Horse to carry my other point which was that states already have these sorts of “Federalist” powers to enact the rest of the stuff the GOP twants, like tort reform…and as far as I know, states can even accept insurance polices written for other states (i.e. if Arizona decides they like the crap insurance sold in Mississippi e.g., the legislature can easily mirror the Mississippi standards and get de facto portability).

Actually, I think this might be the way to go. Then, again, I live in a state which will choose the PO. For the states that won’t want the PO, because they love their states right, their business community will tell them in no uncertain terms, you either choice PO or we’re moving to a state with it. For a few years, it will be the bargaining chip for a state wanting to attract business.

My preference would be single payer, but if it takes a compromise like this to get going, then so be it.

It seems like Andy Stern belatedly realized that not having a public option is going to screw his SEIU members badly, and that he’s going to be held responsible since he didn’t fight for it.

Per kos: GOP finally out of the health care reform picture

[snip]

President Obama has cut off communication with Republican leaders, going more than four months without hosting the bipartisan congressional leadership at the White House to discuss his health care proposal, the No. 2 Republican in the House said Wednesday.

Yea, right, probability fluffing them in the cloak room.

Huffington is now reporting that Reid told the Las Vegas Review Journal that whatever bill comes out of Congress will have a public option!

http://www.lvrj.com/news/break…..55937.html

Here’s 200% of poverty Cantwell is talking about:

Family Size Gross Annual Income* Gross Monthly Income*
1 20,800 1,734
2 28,000 2,334
3 35,200 2,934
4 42,400 3,534
5 49,600 4,134
6 56,800 4,734
7 64,000 5,334
8 71,200 5,934
9 78,400 6,534
10 85,600 7,134

What these assholes don’t understand is states run by REPUBLICANS- like Virginia soon will be-are not going to do a DAMN thing for the uninsured, unemployed or underinsured because THEY DON’T GIVE A SHIT.

So hell yeh, let’s give all the power to the states. That’ll work.

Come ON.

Citizen smcclurk:

This one is all but over…there will be plenty of histrionics and gnashing of teeth and tuggin on forelocks but in the end, there WILL be national healthcare reform and it WILL include a strong public option…no one with any weight is carryin any water for the bosses anymore. Of course the devil’s in the details but I can’t help but remember how Trumka went into the White House the other day and threw down on ‘em…I think we can still hear Rahm skreetchin’ down the hall with Trumpka’s boot in his backside!

Senator Maria Cantwell will be on MSNBC with Ed in a couple of minutes.

Good point. The South will opt out and insurance rates will go up there.

The only good thing is that state legislatures and governors would soon be democratic, I would think.

Cantwell is on MSNBC right now.

Stern showed his true colours with Puerto Rico’s teachers and Kahliforneah’s nurses.

we do not need a public option

if we cannot make profits off the sick and needy what good is my beloved capitalism.

I dont want the gov messing with my medicare or social security. I hate gov programs this is america not europe we love our freedoms to go bankrupt.

I worked hard for that money and my grandchildren will just have to do without. their problem not mine.

if medical care is too expensive for a family we can have a bake sale like we did last week at church. we raised 325 dollars for a family that had a 80,000 dollar medical bill. truly we church folks are wonderful repubs that love both bushs to do that for these people.

yes they lost their house with that 80,000 dollar medical bill and it is too bad the husband was laid off but not my problem and are now living in a storage shed but I hear they are bonding well in that shed.

this is the american way every person for themselves and corporate profits will trickle down to us like reagan promised and I still believe him.

I love my capitalism as jesus was a capitalist. got to go it is time for bible study. it is great men like russ and glen that make this country what it is.

tonight we are going to study compassion love those groups. such caring people all of them. god bless america truly a christian nation not like those atheist europe folks that lets gov pay for health care.

peace be with you all. :-)

Can you IMAGINE what Perry will do with it????? I wonder if Texans are getting a bit tired of his hysteria

Excellent!

The sad news is the deep south is so parochial many of the lockstep right wing voters will not even be aware of how far behind they are being left. For years the workers and families in the Sunbelt have been underpaid and under insured. Too many unable or unwilling to get out and know the difference.

I know the frustration of watching people vote against their own interests because they get hornswoggled by the likes of a Vitter or a Kyl.

However, this is where I believe that ministers are critical to this whole health care debate.

For ministers and hospital chaplains, the notion that corporations are profiteering from illness is anathema. The role of ministers in this issue is seldom mentioned publicly, but I believe it extremely important and hope that ministers in your area have accurate information and good resources to answer any of their questions.

After all, if anyone in this nation sees the heartache, stress, and tragedy of some of the families without adequate insurance, it’s ministers and chaplains.

It’s really important to get their perspective, and not simply get caught up in the political tic-tac-toe of the day.

A lot of citizens will be cut out with this kind of “opt-out” compromise. I would call this unacceptable. People in states like Georgia with Republican governors and Republican/conservative state legislatures would definitely opt out.
Despite the fact that Barack Obama won over 47% of the vote in Georgia, under this “plan” Georgians (as an example) would lose out. Now I can already hear my liberal friends now — “well, move out of those backwoods states!” I think everyone is aware that most people don’t have the means to just up and move, and there are many factors that go into something like that. There are almost 10,000,000 people in Georgia now.

Does anyone know if the idea would be to put this up for a vote for the citizens or just rely on the state legislators to decide? If the people got to vote it may pass even in many conservative states, although I doubt they would let the PEOPLE vote on something like this (ya know, that crazy idea called Democracy!).

“Obama loses if there is not healthcare reform of some kind and if the Senate gets a bill to the floor with the public option then the Darkman’s ass will be on the line for it.”

Norske,
What is being proposed is not healthcare reform. It is corporate servitude, and protectionism for insurance corporations.
It is about imposing a tax penalty on people who cannot afford overpriced health insurance offered by Corporations operating at the state level. To add insult to injury many of the corporate health insurers operating at state levels are for IRS tax law, exempt corporations and for state purposes considered public charities? The AMA’s Competitive Health Insurance Study 2007 is available on line here:
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/p….._52006.pdf

The tables in this report are eyeopening. There is limited if any competition. This is why we cannot by insurance across state lines. It triggers ISCC. The Market shares taken by many tax exempt corporations such as BCBS of MA is large. Additionally this tax exempt corp worked with former indicted Speaker of the House, Sal Dimaissi to craft the Massachusetts Mandate health care law! Now a Tax penalty for failure to buy overpriced health insurance from tax exempt corporations? I recall how the colonist were forced to pay high taxes to a King, for access to tea sold by a Tax exempt corporation, the East India Tea COmpany?

The reality is we are as a nation being sold down the river to “corporations” by state and now federal law makers who take contributions from powerful corporate lobbyist. This is what Jefferson feared. Corporate aristocrats undermining constitutional rights under the color of law in the lust for endless profit, and for us corporate servitude!!

Pass the Ammo… Load then Lock and be ready!

Woot!
That’s a first.

(Cantwell completely unmasked the GOP at least twice today. It was a thing of beauty to see.)

I truly hope you are right, my confidence meter is down toward cynical at the moment. A bright spot was a democrat actually tellin’ it like it is a la Alan Grayson.

This may be what’s left for a PO if Baucus’ Insurance Lobby Giveaway Act of 2009 holds sway. And frankly, I don’t have as much of a problem with Stern’s compromise as some of you. I live in the South, and I wouldn’t be a bit sorry to see the knuckle-dragging Glenn Beck-loving neanderthals get diddly squat.

It is so very hard to stay inside the lines of civility when you read all this crap. What they don’t know is that we are the ones that grease the wheel and if they don’t realize that, they are in for a very rude awakening at some point in the future, laying down is not an option.

What about the folks who aren’t “knuckle-dragging Glenn Beck-loving neanderthals?” I live in FL and I’d not like to see anybody get screwed, “knuckle-dragger” or not.

The fact that White House surrogates keep trying to sell these new “compromises” demonstrates that progressives have successfully entrenched the demand for a public option

I agree. Without the progressives putting heat on Congress it public option would have never even been considered.

we cannot afford to lay down now…

Please understand, the health insurance corporations tax exempt on not are practicing discrimination and contractual games at the state level. The consequences are that basic federal constitutional protections are being usurped, hence the Life and Liberties of Americans are being eviscerated by the corporate interest.

Segregationist usurped the civil rights of Americans with Jim Crow Laws. The effect was state sponsored discrimination. The health insurers corporations operating at the same level, state are undermining the rights of Americans. Now we are going to craft law usurping basic individual constitutional law for the benefit of corporate profit in health care?

This is unbelievable. No American has standing to sue big tobacco for damages, but states do to recover for the money spent for smoking related DISEASES CAUSE BY BIG TOBACCO CORPORATIONS. This is gross. Now I’m to pay a taxed penalty because it cost 1300.00 a month for a family insurance plan with a tax exempt corporation, I CANNOT FUCKING AFFORD!!!!! FUCK CIVILITY WHEN I”M BEING RAPED

via mark matson. if this report from ezra klein is true, wyden is my new hero:

What If They Passed Single-Payer and Didn’t Tell Anyone?

That might have just happened, at least at the state level. The Wyden folks quietly slipped in an amendment giving states enormous flexibility to experiment upward.

I’d not like to see anybody get screwed, “knuckle-dragger” or not.

amen! thanks for that SD.

So this means the Blue States will get better healthcare than the Red States, and the Purple States will likely turn Blue. I think that is unfortunate for people that live in GOP states, but from a political stand point, I have no problem with it. They elect these morons year after year. Perhaps when they are forced to see first hand the consequences of their votes, they will wise up. Reasoning with them does not work. The facts do not sway them. Perhaps, some more real life crappy experiences will do the trick.

It (public Option) will really take the wind out of the sails of the rights rat infested ship. And if some of these teabaggers get covered by a public option and they end up really being taken care of, I have a feeling that a percentage of them will realize they have been duped, not all but enough to swing this group slightly leftward and more amenable to change, and the message of the progressives.

So I am in agreement with you Southern Dragon. The effort to divide us must be resisted. Glenn and Rush et al are the minions of those who seek to divide us and they are succeeding in spreading the disinformation that divides what should be common purpose.

In other words the public option, which Jane said is the compromise, is monumentally important for more reasons than health care.

Exactly

Or if you have a bunch of legislators Like say maybe NC, that are tight with BCBS or major drug companys,,,,guess that leaves us out. Thanks Kay.

I like this idea because once other states have the public option, those that don’t my find a mass exodus. People may actually move to the states that have the public option which will bring down the number of people that the Republicans will be left with. Their representation will shrink because they’ll have less population. Those new voters in blue states will help us keep the majority for years to come. I smell a whig party!

You must know mi pastors that I don’t.

Greener grass, getting burned, sometimes you can go home…

In the 1980s my brother worked in Arizona. He loved it. He had plenty of work since the investors were over-building like crazy. Now the buildings probably sit empty. Somebody had money and didn’t want to invest in a real business, lots of empty buildings though.

Then his employer went bankrupt and he moved to Florida. Again, he loved it. But he hated the work situation. He said there was plenty of work, but not enough pay to live on.

Next he moved to Columbus Ohio and once again loved it. Apparently it didn’t take much to make him happy back then. They had work, unions, decent pay and he started his own company. All went well until his home burned. He lost records and the IRS hounds him until today for back taxes he could have deducted if he had the records. Then his wife and he split up. Hideous situation.

So, he moved back to WV, married again and is working steady via the union and his kids have done better in the schools. Funny how this poor state has done so much better by him and his family.

Sometimes it just looks like the grass is greener over the fence and far away.

There are IRS rules of Inurement? How does a 501c3 tax exempt insurer like BCBS get to participate in meetings with political leaders, craft policy that makes them one of two games in town? This is more than an appearance of impropriety! Now the policymaker accepts contribution and law are devised pigeonholing the taxpayer into doing business with a tax exempt health corporation. This reek likes a decomposing body, and nobody talks about the underlying tax structure in the health services. The interaction of federal tax law state tax public charity law is never discussed.

Kaiser the 5th largest Public charity with assets totaling 55billion, tax exempt. Take a look at Kaiser’s Mid Atlantic Health plan’s 990 tax form via the Urban Institutes National Center For Charitable Statistic.
http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/nccsTools.php

This provides a state by state geographic breakdown of Health Insurers Market Share
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/p….._52006.pdf

Real Competition at the state level? LOL….. Ask this question? What is the corporate tax status of your health insurer? It is a great place to start the investigation. Now use the AMA Tables and the Urban Institutes Data Web Search to refine your search and gather information and data. Have fun and make sure you have a vomit bucket next to your computer chair!

I live in a red state and I did not vote red !

I have’t gotten to the minutia, BCBS “NOT FOR PROFIT” speaks loud and clear.
Had a policy for 20 yrs with an insurance co (name slips my mind) Started at $45.00 a month. ended at 1269.00 a month for just me. BCBS has insured me for 6 yrs started at 469.00 knew all my neck problems etc. now I pay 760.00 you do the math.

Maria Cantwell on the Ed Schultz Show tonight.

And just to reiterate, today Cantwell ripped the veil right off the GOP reasons not to fundamentally reform the way in which health care is paid for in this nation.

Yeah, I’m lucky that way ;-))

A robust public option with a state opt-out seems like a great deal to me and not a compromise at all. The red states already get a disproportionate share of federal spending — let them screw themselves if they want, while the rest of us save money and go our european socialist way. Let them secede if they want. Hell, encourage them to.

there is no robust public option in any of the bills now under consideration by dem leadership. that is why a state’s choice (for a better po or even single payer) is so important.

Absolutely. The pressure hasn’t dwindled, and the public support for a public option hasn’t dwindled either, much to the dismay of many in the White House and Congress.

The Democrats are being dragged kicking and screaming towards a public option, but if they have to be dragged, then so be it.

I can see many red states opting out. Texas would be the first one. Then their uninsured rates (which are the highest in the nation) would go even higher. Then Texans would start sneaking across the border for the free health care in neighboring states!

We will have to put far more pressure on Obama, Rham, et al, plus the Democrats in Congress to see a PO in a true healthcare reform bill.

Anything without a PO is bullshit. Baucus and the Blue Dogs are simply craven conservatives paid for by the Insurance lobby. Obama has run for cover. Since CNN and all of his TV spiels, Obama has lacked clarity and hasn’t shown real leadership on this. As party leader he has allowed Democrats to be seen as a fragmented bunch of political cowards. That Obama ever expected the Republicans to cooperate strikes me as too stupid to be believable. In fact he cannot be that naive and inept. This was understood but horribly bungled.

Obama struck his “own deal” with BigPharma. We weren’t consulted, and only have gotten “whiffs” leaked out of WH to let us know we’re screwed.
This is the transparency we were promised?

If the PO is not in a decent Healthcare bill. it should die. We could at least march on to redoing a good bill by exerting great pressure. But so far, we’ve been had.

Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House

Dear Mr. Marcos:

Thank you for contacting me to express your views on H.R. 676, the United States National Health Care Act of 2009. I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue.

For more than 60 years, we have tried as a nation to make quality, affordable health insurance coverage available to all Americans. Congress is closer than it has ever been in history to passing comprehensive health insurance reform.

H.R. 676, introduced by Representative John Conyers, Jr. (D-MI), would provide for comprehensive health insurance coverage for all United States residents with single payer financing, expanding the Medicare program to all Americans.

Throughout my Congressional career I have been in favor of universal healthcare as a right, and not a privilege, and have supported a single payer financing system. However, I believe that the most achievable health insurance reform currently is H.R. 3200, the America’s Affordable health Choices Act.

America’s Affordable Health Choices Act will lower costs to consumers and businesses; give greater choice to Americans, including keeping your doctor or plan if you like them; improve the quality of care putting doctors, not insurance companies, back in charge; and provide stability and peace of mind that you cannot be denied care or coverage for a pre-existing condition.

This bill will provide significant benefits to San Franciscans, including ensuring that up to 22,000 small businesses could receive tax credits to provide coverage to their employees and 8,100 seniors would avoid the donut hole in Medicare Part D. In addition, the bill would provide access to high-quality, affordable health insurance to tens of thousands of uninsured San Franciscans.

Over the month of August, I met with San Franciscans across our city to hear their stories and discuss the importance of health care reform. Meeting with faith leaders at St. James Episcopal Church in the Richmond District and with doctors, hospital administrators, middle-class families, seniors, and the uninsured at San Francisco General Hospital, among other meetings, reinforced my commitment to the urgency of health insurance reform as it is apparent that too many are worrying not simply about getting well, but whether they can afford to get well.

I am committed to increasing competition, to lowering cost, to improving quality, expanding coverage and retaining choice, and I believe that this can best be obtained through the inclusion of a public health insurance option as part of this landmark legislation.

I am confident that this year Congress will pass legislation that puts Americans and their doctors back in charge, holds insurance companies accountable, guarantees stability and peace of mind, lowers costs, and provides more choices for higher quality care.

Thank you again for contacting me on this critical issue. I hope you will continue to communicate with me on matters of concern to you. For more information on this and other issues affecting our city and our nation, please visit my website at http://www.house.gov/pelosi or sign up to receive e-mail updates at http://www.house.gov/pelosi/IMA/subscription.html.

Sincerely,

Nancy Pelosi
Member of Congress

Please do not reply to this e-mail because this mailbox is unattended.

I agree that many mainstream ministers are as you describe. However in particular in the deep south many of the evangelical and fundamentalist Christian ministers take a more Calvinistic stance, ie poor fortune is the result of God finding fault in you. Many are strong advocates for heartless GOP values or are so twisted over abortion while glorifying the military as Christian soldiers as to pay little attention to other things.

Another problem under GOP administrations being a liberal denomination i.e. UCC UUA gets special attention from the IRS for anything they can call political action. I have had some personal experience with the latter. It is very scary for the churches.

Funny.

I have a better compromise. Tell the repubs and blue dorks that there are more than enough votes to ram through what the American people want, and if they don’t like it they can sit in the corner and cry while it’s passed anyway, then explain to their constituents why they should still have a job next cycle.

Yeah, the sky in my world is green too. Fucking coward politicians.

Just learned today that behind Texas, Florida has the most uninsured citizens. With Crist Republican Governer, I suppose he will opt out…? Distressing.

Thank you Nancy Pelosi
Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House