I wish Roll Call were publicly available. Somehow, insiders talking to insiders behind a firewall dispense with the wink-wink, nudge-nudge that goes on for the benefit of the public. When the administration says "Obama supports a public option" while doing everything it can to pressure people into dropping their support, the pro-forma spin isn’t taken seriously. Witness this article on White House plans to draft their own health care bill:
The White House has been secretly drafting its own health care legislation that it may unveil at some point during the debate if officials believe it would help secure passage of a bill, according to sources familiar with the effort.
Sources differed on how far the process has gotten, with some saying a bill is basically finished and others saying they are aware only of a partially completed effort. White House officials, though they know their preferences, also appear to be constructing different options that could be thrown together depending on how the legislation is shaping up in Congress.
But all sources knowledgeable about the effort agreed the measure includes significant detail and possibly even some legislative language that could ensure the bill is ready to go the moment it is needed. “They are getting ready for a backup,” said one veteran observer of health care debates who was knowledgeable about the effort. “It will be parachuted in if necessary.”
The White House measure appears designed to entice moderate Democrats and perhaps even Republicans into supporting a health care overhaul if legislative efforts in Congress fail or if they move too far to the left.
The White House has its own bill that it is ready to drop if Congress moves "too far to the left" — if "liberals" demand a public option.
Not only does the White House have a bill, says Roll Call, but it’s far enough along that they could crunch numbers and arrive at a $900 billion sticker price by the time Obama spoke to the joint session of Congress on September 9.
Why would they need to do this?
At the moment, the Senate Finance Committee is moving legislation that includes many provisions and a price tag supported by President Barack Obama, and the need for a White House bill may now be moot. One of the reasons for embarking on the project was to have a detailed proposal ready in case the Finance Committee failed to move a bill that could pass the Senate.
Well, that would make sense if the Senate Finance Committee had to report a bill, but it doesn’t. The Senate HELP Committee already delivered one.
It isn’t the first time the story has been floated. On September 4, CNN reported the same thing. Robert Gibbs yesterday was quick to deny the Roll Call article, and say that the White House was not drafting its own bill. Gibbs has not been a pillar of reliability about the state of health care negotiations — in June he said he didn’t know if the PhRMA deal included a commitment that Medicare would not be allowed to renegotiate for prescription drug prices. Of course, it did.
So, why would the White House then float such a story, only to deny it?
Well, consider who reads Roll Call. Aside from Kagro and Kos, I don’t know too many bloggers who do. It’s a subscription-based publication that lobbyists and Capitol Hill insiders pay to read. Witness the editorial on unfair "lobbyist intimidation" on June 17, when Baucus’s staff told lobbyists that if they met with Republicans, it would be "viewed as a hostile act," and they would lose their seat at the negotiating table. It was Tom DeLay’s K-Street project in reverse, written for an audience who thinks defending lobbyists’ rights is critically important.
The Finance Committee bill transcribes the details of the deals that the White House and Baucus negotiated with all the health care industry stakeholders. So if the Baucus bill gets stalled, all those stakeholders like PhRMA, AHIP, the hospitals, the AMA, the device manufacturers, etc., etc., start to get nervous. They’ve plunked a bunch of good money down on advertising in exchange for their deals (just ask Tom Carper), and the last thing the White House wants is for them to start stepping out with the GOP.
Remember what happened the last time Billy Tauzin thought the White House was going back on the PhRMA deal? He yanked their chain in the pages of the New York Times and showed he was totally willing to air their dirty laundry if they tried to back out. The White House was forced to send Jim Messina into the shredder to verify it.
Shortly thereafter, John Boehner wrote a letter to Tauzin that read like something from a jilted boyfriend. Tauzin (and other stakeholders, and their money) will have many, many suitors should these deals start looking endangered. Ergo, leaking a story to a publication behind a firewall read by lobbyists assures them that if Baucus can’t deliver a bill that memorializes the deals, the White House is willing to step in and do it for him.
While they may or may not be writing their own bill, they need to reassure health care industry stake holders that those deals will be honored in the final bill, even if Baucus can’t get them through is committee. Because the last thing the White House needs right now is stakeholders leaking embarrassing documents because they’re getting hinky at the thought that their deals might go south.





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This is corrupt.
Why doesn’t Obama have the balls to write the bill and own it?/rhetorical. Then let the country see what kind of “change” he really wants.
Why does Obama think Americans don’t deserve healthcare?
If this is true then we will have to stop blaming Rahm.
the fix is (still) in.
related –
what happened to Dorgan’s PhRMA amendment ? didn’t see it offered yesterday, is it still to come or did Rahm offer him a peak in to the goody bag ?
Shorter White House: Trust us.
Jane can translate from the Hollywoodese.
I hope there is a medic with oxygen standing by when Ed (Ed Show) figures this out. I feel badly for all those who’ve been fighting the good fight and don’t know yet the’ve been had.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
If this is true, then we are in for a very rough two years and may very well loose some seats in both houses of Congress in 2010 but the Democratic Party stands to benefit from this if the progressives can hold together and make sure no bill passes. If this is true, Obama is a one term President and good riddence.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS OUR COUNTRY!!
I like Everyone else wanted to put the blame on Rahm.
But we have to face facts now, It’s Obama. Obama has sold out the left.
We need to primary challenge him, let him know that the left will no longer just be good Democratic soldiers.
Kucinich / Weiner 2012
Because Obama has lost my vote, and won’t be getting it back anytime soon it seems. I won’t vote repug, I’ll just not vote for pres.
Here’s the deal, President Obama—
Healthcare bill minus robust public option—Democratic party minus progressives.
Let’s hope they choose wisely instead of pandering to corporate interests.
We can blame all of them. obama had no intention of bringing about any change that benefitted anyone but the big corps (the auto industry is an anomaly, I guess because of trying to break the unions). When obama chose rahm, the writing was on the wall. Many of us recognized it right away. There were some that said rahm won’t hold any power; that was certainly wishful thinking. In 2012 obama will have to hope that the big corps money will get him reelected because I don’t think that the popular support will be there. What would be the difference if Barbie were elected? I don’t think any really: we just got $50mil for abstinence only sex ed. We have people advocating the overthrow of the government and state secession without being arrested for treason or sedition. At least with a repug as pres, we would know that the person was crazy and we were officially a corporatocracy without a working Constitution (that is being trashed every day).
Cornell West had it right on Democracy Now! yesterday. The Obama administration is every bit as neoliberal as the Clinton or Shrub administrations. All profit, all the time. Profit over people.
But we knew that going in, didn’t we?
First off, why is the White House acting in secret?
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Obama is not stupid and he knows that if real healthcare reform doesn’t pass then he’s toast but he can still dump the deals he made with the corporatists and come out smellin like somethin’ closer to a rose than a pile of shit.
If he tries to pull this, then he only makes the progressives and the rest of the majority of the public stronger in the long run.
Remember that for us the struggle goes on and on and…
why call it reform?
There is great determination and pressure to promulgate and pass a very bad bill for the public in both the Baucus/Conrad/Snowe Job Senate Finance Committee (whose members are purely whores for Lobbyists/Corporations) and the White House (also whores for Lobbyists/Corporations).
Obama is a tall skinny liar. The great power of corporate lobbyists remains unabated. There is no perceptible change which can be believed. These bills are as expensive to the public and useless as Bush’s Medicare Part D with no drug price negotiation/no drug reimportation.
The Progressives must dig in their heels. Any single one who does not honor his committment to vote against any bill wtihout a strong public option will be held to account.
That means voting against any bill which comes out of any committee or the White House without a strong federal level public option.
I think some are beginning to realize that the “change” they wanted is going to take longer and require more dedicated effort than they thought. I’m looking at 2016 before we really see a substantial change in the culture and policies.
Never. Give. Up.
I sure thought it was clear going in. But I remember the primaries when a big majority of sheeple here and at Kos were swooning over Obama.
lol
Careful, someone may accuse you of being Joe Wilson.
I don’t know why anyone outside the pols and the lobbyists are supporting any of this anymore. It is so obviously a massive sellout to insurance, drug, and medical companies. Any reference to the needs of ordinary Americans is either inadvertent or for laughs. We need to stop looking for the kernels of corn in this shitpile and openly and loudly oppose it. To do anything else is to lend credence to a process that is totally corrupt.
That is what we should do. It probably won’t happen. Some of us will go to the last day hoping against hope that this politician or that group of them will stand up and draw a line, something none of them has ever done on a make or break vote.
So I think the result is going to be awful, but also irrelevant. Just as these greedy, concupiscent clowns can’t write a healthcare bill that is worthy of the name, they have been equally bad dealing with the economy. As conditions in the economy worsen, any legislation produced by this godawful process will be superseded by events.
Citizen BearCountry:
Obama is not stupid and if he knows ANYthing he knows that the moment he loses the support of a majority of the masses the oligarchy will dump him like a truckload of manure…this doesn’t make any sense to me, ultimately Obama is not safe movin’ to the right so unless he’s stupid AND suicidal he won’t try and pull out of healthcare reform.
It is becoming pretty damn clear where the White House stands. A bad plan (mandates w/o public option) should be nixed entirely. It seems that there is a fight going on, and the citizenry are on the receiving end of the punches.
The White House wants us to believe that the birthers/teabaggers are the ones who engaged us in this fight. And to not notice corporate money delivering the blows to the back of the head.
Oh what a tangled web the WH weaves.
First the transparency
Then the single payer advocates were removed from so much as an invitation to the table.
Never a substantive effort for a PO.
And always a defense and protection of the fraudulent mofo’s who got us here.
Are we all ready to quit parsing their ponzi scheming insurance language and drum NO into their heads like a bunch of rabid teabggers yet?
Sirota:
Gee, you’d think actual voters counted for a little bit more.
I mean, who’s going to vote for Dems next year?
Birthers?
Truthers?
Deathers?
Capitalists?
Patients?
Environmentalists?
Foodies?
Olympians?
Remember, back in Denver, the hordes of lobbyists? It’s all coming together.
Citizen ReisFischer:
And I remember a lot of sheeple here and at Kos who were fallin all over themselves over Mrs. Clinton and John Edwards…you my friend are in the same tub of shit as the rest of us and if ya don’t recognize that then give yourself a thrill and stick your head back in your ass and tickle your prostate
I think technically Obama has already pulled out of healthcare reform. As soon as he started calling it health insurance reform it started falling apart.
Heh, heh. Another episode of “Keep the muzzle on Harry and Louise.”
So they’re fighting it just for so? Wtf? Evildoers. It’s just a big game to them. Feh.
roflao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obamas MO is to muddy the waters, then piss in it. By keeping us off balance, they think they can paint a stinking pile, and call it gold.
PS: Obama would go to Europe and the Olympics committee if Hoboken, NJ were the proposed Olympics site?
Didn’t make sense to call Obama a big fat liar. /s
Did you hear the jerkoff Republican in that (four R’s against one D) Wolf Blitzer attack on Allan Grayson?
He said:
“I’d like to know which people you say republicans want to die early”.
Grayson didn’t answer him, and made a brilliant counter attack.
Of course we all know the answer.
The R’s want all of us peons dead. Except the ones they need to trim their hedges. They would be Mexican.
I looked at it as the evil of three lessers. We had McSFB, who had to be defeated at any cost. We had Obama and Clinton, two neoliberal corporatists. Some choice but hope springs eternal. I had hoped for a more liberal leaning in some areas, particularly the wars. Obama’s continuing the wars and bringing in the folks whose economic agenda echoed the “efficient free market” of Milton Friedman told me all I needed to know. I’m prolly as guilty as any for pimping Obama but I’d have pimped a dead man if I thought he could beat McSFB.
I think technically Obama has already pulled out of healthcare reform
co-opt us, interrupt us
Ooh– sounds like I struck a nerve.
Citizen alan1tx:
And I remember in the primaries when Obama talked about his concern for the tens of thousands of workers in the insurance industry…Obama is a politician and a BLACK politician so he knows that the only thing keepin’ him alive is his popularity with a majority of voters…if he loses us in the progressive base of the party he literally loses his life…the oligarchy would LOVE to see a President Biden.
OT?
I haven’t been to a movie in 4 or 6 years (I can’t remember) and I am on a very strict budget right now but I have $20 cash in my wallet that isn’t promised yet and I am going to go see Capitalism tomorrow night because:
* I want to be part of the blowout opening numbers it gets; and
* I saw Moore say he will contribute to primarying and working against any Dem who votes against a good public option!
Who’s with me?
Sheesh, John Edwards. I forgot. Imagine how bad that would have turned out.
I saw all that out of the corner of my eye ~ Grayson looked SO strong and unflinching while they piled on. Now THAT’s a DEMOCRAT!
Citizen ReiszFischer:
The only nerve you struck is attached to your sphincter so don’t fuck with me ,Brother.
Rahm reports to his boss, but I’m not sure who that is. Often it seems as if he’s the president’s minder on behalf of very powerful outside forces.
Progressives continue to believe that there are enough principled House members to shoot down any bill that does not contain a public option. Progressives also continue to believe that almost all Republicans will vote against any sort of healthcare reform. I think they are wrong. I’m worried about another scenario, and I think this is where we are heading….
Suppose that a bill including a public option fails to survive the legislative process. What may very well happen in that instance is that the insurance companies will release their GOP lackeys in the House and Senate to go ahead and vote for a shitty bill without the public option. A combination of Republicans and bad Democrats could pass a piece of legislation over the objections of the Progressives. IMHO, this is the likely outcome of this sordid process.
Witty.
IIRC, Dorgan is going to offer his amendment on the floor of the Senate, after the bill is out of committee.
I’m torn up for all the people who will be hurt by a bad bill, but if a bad bill is going to be passed, at this point the BADDER the BETTER so it cannot be papered over with messaging and people will have cause to WAKE UP!
Speaking of secret, are you a loyal citizen of the United States of America? Or do you want to secede and form a whole other country?
You neo-con Governor Perry, is “secesh”.
Norske, I know that obama is not stupid, but I know that he can’t go against the big corps and keep their support. He is depending on being able to say that he campaigned for a PO, but just couldn’t get the votes, so don’t blame him. Meanwhile, the big boys don’t just keep their profits, they get more in the insurance venue because people have to buy it or be fined, and the government will subsidize the purchases without any meaningful requirement to hold down costs, especially if they can’t rescind the coverage. Anyway, if he only serves one term, he is set for life financially.
eagleye- bingo!
How on earth could all republicans vote against a half or more trillion dollar gift to the medical industrial complex?
But that doesn’t mean the progressives should fold… if anything, quite the opposite.
Proud to be an American.
(Not always proud of everything done by us or in our name).
oooh thankeee
distraction. and of course they hate the idea of even the possibility of a small decrease in profits.
this could be interesting:
on my better days i’m willing to hope based on the work jane et al are doing. (disclaimer: i think a bad po is worse than none because it could teach the public that gov can’t do public insurance)
American is not the same as US citizen. Are you loyal to the United States Constitution? Do you believe the President is a native born United States citizen? Or do you believe he was born in Kenya, or Fiji or Panama?
John McCain was born in Panama.
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is a little late but is up:“Karl Rove: Obama Will Be Judged by His Ability to Clean Up George W. Bush’s Mess”
Even a small decrease from, say, 20% surplus value (profit) will affect the per share earnings, which won’t make the shareholders happy.
Is this some new kind of triangulation whereby you stab your supporters in the back, hand taxpayer money to your opponents’ friends (who are lurking somewhere in the background, not giving you any credit for everything you’re doing for them), and smile like you’re not shooting yourself in both feet?
Come on, Rahm. Really? And I thought Dick Morris was an idiot.
Are my questions too difficult for you? Or are you keeping secrets? Are you a neo-con?
Amen.
My thought would be to strike, it only has to start in one small city. It may seem like pissing in the wind and organizing it would be a logistical nightmare but to me, who has called and called, working outside the system seems the only answer. It doesn’t have to be everybody, nurses doctors etc would all go to work unless off for the day. Do a day, and then, if no response, another and keep it rolling across the US. It just has to be visible and somewhat spontaneous. My take for what it is worth, desperation I know, but we have to do something to get their attention. Any ideas out there?
Dick Morris is an idiot.
With the emergence of the neo-confederates we’re gonna have to come up with something to distinguish them from our slimy friends the neo-conservatives. *g*
Citizen Knoxville:
Obama I know is not stupid so all of this just makes no sense at all…if he weren’t a black politician with minority support from the white population like Bill Clinton, I would believe he would sell out the people on this. This isn’t just about bein’ a one term President for Obama this is about not survivin’ through 2012.
Thank you for that link!
Does anyone have a link to contact Harry Reid handy?
GO TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They just don’t get it yet, do they?
Yes, but now we know that he’s not the king of the idiots.
Citizen SouthernDragon:
Your not serious are you brother…of course there is no difference between ‘em…a fascist is a fascist is a fascist and unlike Bill Clinton, Obama can’t survive without progressive whites.
Oh, dear, I think my head just exploded.
Might this be the candidate to beat Reid if his leadership fails?
http://politicalticker.blogs.c…..or-senate/
Aw, man, I’m talkin’ nuance here. Neo-con. Neo-confederate or neo-conservative. There is a difference, however small it may be. *g*
Some of us never DID blame Rahm! Where, pray tell, do you think the buck stops?????
Citizen BearCountry:
The point Citizen, is that once Obama dips below 50% in the polls the oligarchy has no time for him no matter what his stand on this issue. And make no mistake about it, if Obama stabs us in the back on this he will go to 30% overnight…this is not NAFTA and Obama is not stupid…Obama doesn’t have the option of keepin’ his promises to the corporations and THAT, Brother, is our strength as progressives. This issue has galvanized the population like no other could and Obama has created a monster that will eat both him and the fat cats…just watch, Obama won’t bail because he will be gone before 2012 and corporate friendly and WHITE Joe Biden will be President.
Hear hear. What I’ve been saying for a while now.
it was always clear. but duped pwogs can easily adopt the line so many mainstream types took when Bush’s wars became undeniably failed: “no one could have predicted…”
Citizen SouthernDragon:
Ask a survivor of Weimar Germany if there was a difference between any of the fascist and traditional conservative factions in 1933. No dear, there are no angels dancin’ on the pin on this one.
Have I been triangulated?
If you supported Obama in the election, it is important to lobby the White House and make it clear to them that they are on the verge of losing their base if they scuttle the public option. The e-mail address, for those of you who don’t know it, is http://www.whitehouse.gov
I received a fundraising letter yesterday from Obama’s political group, Organizing for America, and in reply I sent a letter to the White House making it clear that I was aware of the secret deals that have been made with the health industry and that I will never again contribute to any organization associated with Obama if they pass a bill without the public option. You have to make them aware of the disastrous political effects for them of this road they have taken.
Yes he will. He already has. What he has clung fast to is the APPEARANCE of healthcare reform. And you can bet that come 2012 Big lobby money will rain down to polish up his image and fool the blunt faced masses all over again so that “the killin’ will go on and on . . .”
“We need to primary challenge him…”
I think that’s a great idea and I wouldn’t have any trouble voting for Kucinich, but revulsion is what a whole lot of people feel when exposed to him.
Just-not-voting is not an option for me. Without a primary challenger to Obama, who I am rapidly growing to detest, I’ll vote for Ralph Nader or another third party candidate, just never a Republican or a Libertarian and probably not a Democrat, unless it’s Howard Dean.
Does anyone have a link to a contact page for Harry Reid other than the one on his webpage (which I think is only for his constituents)?
Sounds sweet but yer dreamin, Zippo.
Are there Nobel Prizes for pun-ditry?
Thanks for that link.
Here’s the link to the specific contact page:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Reminds me of a buddy of mine, Eric the Reader (so named for his fiery red beard and inability to go into a bookstore without falling face-first into a book, any book, and not coming up for air until he was finished with it). He thought that voting for Bush twice instead of Al Gore would cause the American people to revolt and leap straight into the arms of the Greens/Naderites/Socialists/etc.
So he never minded it much when it was discovered that the lefty third parties in America, especially the Greens, were funded in large part by conservatives seeking to keep progressives divided and conservatives in power (and to make Democrats more conservative by promoting the idea that America is more conserative than it really is, a GOP/Media Complex hallmark).
The simple fact is that so long as the majority of Americans get their news from sources other than progblogs (i.e., drive-time radio and TV network news, which as we know aren’t exactly friendly to anything to the left of Joe Lieberman), and so long as private money is allowed to dominate politics, no third party, even if it wasn’t actually designed to be a spoiler, will be capable of being anything other than a spoiler for one of the two major parties. So the choices are to buy up your own radio and TV network (hey, NBC’s for sale — only around $23 billion last I looked) AND start your own major political party (got another $5 billion to get the state and local orgs off the ground? Well, at least you can save a little money on ads since you shelled out $23B for NBC), or to push for getting the private money out of elections via http://www.publicampaign.org and strengthening progressives from the grassroots up via groups life DFA. Which is likely to be easier, folks?
Did anyone note that big question mark in the title of this piece. As in “Is the WH Drafting a Secret Bill without a Public Option?” And as far as I can tell the rest of the piece doesn’t really answer it. Except in one case to freely interpret “…too far to the left” as “…if liberals demand a public option.”
Meanwhile, looks like some of the members of the veal pen are breaking away:
Just checked my e-mails and got this from Roll Call:
Pelosi Won’t Call on Grayson to Apologize
By Steven T. Dennis
Roll Call Staff
Oct. 1, 2009, 12:05 p.m.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Thursday called for both parties to behave with more civility, but declined to call on Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) to apologize for saying Republicans want sick people to “die quickly” and are “foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging Neanderthals.”
Hope this hasn’t already been posted.
I saw that, too, but my hopes were
dashedgreatly reduced as soon as I read that it was not progressive senators (oops, nearly an oxymoron) but progressive “groups” threatening this.:~)
Progressives need to determine how to kill the PO-less bill that will emerge. Just as RahmnO planned, progressive members of the Congress will inevitably be the ones who will have to say NO to this sham they are calling reform.
How can progressives kill the bill without looking like we are killing healthcare reform? Media will present that as the story, not the truth.
Thanks for that link. I’m about at that point now. F**k it. With mandates to buy health cartel monopoly crap (whch increases their power) The Dems are putting us in WORSE shape. Abandon them and give it back to the R’s. As Ralph Nader, who has turned out to be so painfully right said after Gore’s loss, “at least you have a wolf in wolf’s clothing.” America never changes anything until you have a system- threatening crisis. Obviously we’re not there yet so let’s hasten the day. If I sound angry and disgruntled it’s because I am.
How can we get this story some more air play?
I think that “mainstream” Democrats (as opposed to us DFH’s) might start to realize that Obama and Rahm et al, are *NOT THEIR FRIENDS* in this fight — IF we can make this type of shilling for lobbyist dollars behavior abundantly clear.
If mainstream Demos start bailing on the O-Rahm-a plan because they realize that it’s all just a big kabuki play to get lobbyist dollars for the DLC types, that will kill this unhealthy relationship quickly (since nobody will be left to be friends with the DLC’ers except the Blue Dogs — already under pressure to sh*t or get off the pot; go right or go left, you can’t have both — and the Republicans, who are basically their spitting, mortal enemies). In other words, this could be a very strong wedge to drive between the DLC folks and AHIP/PhRMA/etc.
Thus, we REALLY need this story to go viral and go mainstream. How do we do that?
hmmm, thoughtful post that time, PW.
but, Progressives are not divided, they are spookily, eerily united in support for a political faction, the Democratic Party, that has done nothing significant to advance the interests of regular people for what, 30 years, 40 years?
And this same party, has done much to lay the basis for, and extend, the depredations of the (R) party, from the passage of NAFTA, to the repeal of Glass-Steagal, to the non-opposition and continual funding of Bush’s failed, criminal wars of aggression.
And, since Party funding is such a tell, well, who pays the piper and calls the tune with the Democrats? Lets let Matt Tabibi answer that, as he did here on FDL:
http://firedoglake.com/2009/07…..e/#Respond
wall street got trillions from Obama in the recent bailout, and the (D)’s have the gall to raise nickel-and-dime objections to health care reform?
Shows clearly where their priorities are, and it would take billions of dollars and years of effort to change that from within, wasting resources betting against stacked decks every inch of the way.
You answered your own question. What part of too far to the left do you not understand equates with the Public Option?
The only feature that I can think of that can be construed to be on the left side of the health “insurance” debate is the PO.
Otherwise, the whole bill is a money grab to the insurance industry.
It also opens the door for Walmart to eliminate its health insurance (legacy, Snort!) costs.
It will be cheaper for Walmart to pay the fines for ignoring the mandatory requirement to buy insurance than to pay its employees health insurance premiums.
Walmart employees will be forced into Medicaid. They’re already familiar with Medicaid. Walmart steers them there for their Food Stamps.
We will be subsidizing Wal Marts payroll even further if a bad bill passes.
Not a panacea but you might consider supporting The RealNews. It’s a start.
We can’t kill the bill without looking like the bad guys, because that is *exactly the fall* that Obama/Rahm have been setting us up for since June.
What we need to do is stop playing into THEIR narrative and riff off of something that Rockefeller (who, although no saint, is a hero in this fight) said so well: the goal isn’t just to pass ANY bill, it’s to pass REFORM.
If we can control that narrative and start helping the general public to understand that we don’t need just “anything,” we need REFORM — and inextricably tie a public option or single payer to reform — we will accomplish two goals.
First, we will greatly improve the chances of getting at least a public option. For better or for worse, single payer has been painted as “crazy lunatic fringe” stuff, so I doubt it will happen. But the public option has become enough of a buzzword and rallying cry that — with some fight, and with us being more on-message — we could win.
Second, in the event we have to kill a wolf-in-sheep’s clothing “reform” bill (sadly possible), it will help the public understand our motives. We are not obstructionists, we are not just Republican “trolls,” and we are not ideological purists. All we are asking is that a health insurance “reform” bill actually include, you know, reform.
So if we can start to really control the narrative here — instead of being constantly reactive like we’ve been throughout this whole fight — Good Things can still happen.
And that’s the sad truth, well stated. I am coming to the depressing conclusion that my pop was right when he said that this nation never changes anything fundamentally without a full-blown system- threatening crisis. This has happened only twice in our history: The Civil War and The Great Depression. Ergot this healthcare tragedy, bad as it is, is simply going to have to get much, much worse before the Powers get nervous and throw the masses a bone.
dont just not vote for pres, stay involved donate to progressives ,call , write , march, AND THEN DO IT ALL AGAIN NEXT WEEK!
Ok, but how do you control the narrative against such masses of money? I’m open to all suggestions.
things are much much worse, we need to eat the rich!, give up our wants and fight for our needs!!!
I’m with you. However…I think part of the progressive strategy should include maneuvering in the Congress to make it perfectly clear what progressives are trying to accomplish.
For example, is it possible by any proceedure to split the bill so that the mandate with no PO is voted on separately from the insurance reform that includes pre existing condition and recision changes?
We need the opportunity to vote down the odious without voting down the stuff that everyone–including progressives–want.
Eeewwww. I bet the rich would taste terrible. They’re all skinny, arugula-fed, sinewy types. I’d need a damn good sauce.
perhaps, but another option is that the Left learns from failed strategies and builds their own political vehicle, instead of trying feebly to touch the controls of the huge political battleship, the (D) Party, that is owned operated and run by their enemies.
I don’t actually know. I’m not super expert on media manipulation (I’m still only about a third of the way through Manufacturing Consent).
What I do know is that almost all of the stumbles and failures in this health reform battle that aren’t just direct losses to lobbyist-owned factions are due to us (progressives, liberals, DFH’s, pick your title) not doing a good job controlling the message. Sure, progblogs like DFH and parts of Kos and HuffPol circulate progressive views, but for the most part the MSM paints us as crazy “ideological purists” and far-left loonies. As long as we allow that to keep happening, we will keep losing these battles. You’ll notice that even liberal-friendly sources have been repeating the mantra that “the public option is dead” for a while now. I’m sure that you can guess where this “PO is dead” meme started, but since we didn’t jump on it it became “common knowledge.” The result was that the goalposts moved — and now it’s “common knowledge” that anybody who supports the public option is just an insane lefty.
Of course, the public option ISN’T dead — yet — but once “everyone knows” that it’s “crazy” to keep fighting for something that’s “dead” like the public option, the other side has 90% of its work done for them. And that is the battle I keep seeing played out again and again with progressives; we allow regressive sources to control the messaging, we don’t put out “celebrities” with clean, coherent messages (with all apologies to Jane, who I’ve cheered for every time I’ve seen her in the MSM), and as a result, we lose the hearts and minds of the public. The public doesn’t see that we’re fighting for THEM, and instead drinks the Kool-Aid that only “crazy lefties” want [the public option, out of Iraq, to avoid escalation in Afghanistan, to avoid war in Iran, transparency, accountability… you name it, and the other side has painted support for it as insane hippie-talk].
Greenwald was right; the media, in collusion with a tightly controlled and on-message right wing echo chamber, has basically defined anything and everything progressive as “un-Serious.” THAT is the battle we have to win if we EVER want our agenda to move forward.
Coming back to your question: I really don’t know. I know that we need to start getting our voice out there. I know that we need to learn how to pick our battles and quit factionalizing (I saw a LOT of progressive cannibalism over single payer vs. public option, and it weakened our message, to be honest). We need a few good organizations to donate to who will fight for our causes — ActBlue, whatever. And we need some strong allies — labor springs to mind. We need to learn how to mobilize, and how to march, and how to keep our eyes on the prize without being distracted by all the shiny distractions our opponents throw our way (Joe Wilson was a GREAT example of how the opponents can distract us and push us off-message — one 2-second outburst completely derailed discussion of the CONTENT of the President’s speech. Coincidence? You decide…)
But beyond that, I don’t really know.
Well, let’s see. “Too far to the left…” could mean a public option open to everyone instead of a limited population of whoever can’t get a private plan. Or it could mean the current proposal of Rockefeller demanding that 85% of insurance company preminums go to actual treatment. Or it could mean single payer (that is unlikely I admit). The point is we really don’t really know what is meant by “too far to the left.” Publically Obama has supported a PO so I take that as a clue that for him some form of a PO is NOT “too far to the left.” Also we don’t know if the entire story is true at all. There is no source cited for it.
I can understand if responses here said something like “IF this is true, THEN Obama is a rat fink.” But too many seem to skip the IF/THEN and go straight to “rat fink.”
Yes, absolutely. And in fact, I’d say that part of what you’re saying — clarifying and simplifying our objectives in Congress — is exactly what I’m saying, controlling the narrative. They are different names for similar goals.
Right now the “general public” (whatever that means) only sees us as the MSM pundits paint us: crazy leftist Marxist liberal hippies. They don’t realize that our goals are, for the most part, THEIR goals — genuine health insurance reform, an end to wars of choice, transparency and accountability in government. We’ve failed to express ourselves clearly in both the media, and in Congress, and until we learn how to do that better, we will keep failing, over and over again, in our policy initiatives.
As to HOW to get better at that, how to get more disciplined as a political movement, I’m all ears as to suggestions (I’m no Karl Rove, able to masterfully weave together media soundbites, fringe groups, and congressional pressure into a single symphony of power… hate them all you want, but we progressives could definitely take some strategy and tactical lessons from the Republicans; they won the hearts and souls of “average Americans,” as undeserved as that was, and as a result the Democrats were out of power for nearly a generation).
The reason so many of us jump to the “rat fink” conclusion is simply because Obama has shown himself to be only too willing to betray the things he claims he supports — in flowery speeches like the ones where he claims he supports the public option — whenever his political or lobbying interests conflict. Those of us who aren’t willing to check our brains at the door see such patterns of behavior and become very skeptical of future promises (and perhaps a tad cynical, but can you blame us?)
Remember FISA? Remember what happened with that, with Obama claiming how he supported “transparency” and “accountability” and “the rule of law,” and then turning around and helping to gut it with retroactive immunity? That’s just one example of why we don’t take him completely at his word, these days.
It’s sort of a case of once bitten, twice shy.
Honestly, to some degree, we need to tune out what the media say and just do what is right. Media is what it is, and what it is is against progressives. That just the reality.
We need to figure out a way to lead rather than follow the “leaders” off the proverbial cliff.
I’m not sure I agree. The mainstream media is insane… it has very little to do with reality.
But unfortunately, it’s still *important*, as media blowhards are, for the most part, still where “Joe Sixpack” goes to get his news. If we continue to fail so badly to get our story out there, we will be relegated to insignificance — Joe will still believe what Katie Couric tells him, that we are just a bunch of crazy leftists, since she’s obviously Important and Serious since she’s “on the television.”
So if we ignore the media, as tempting and morally satisfying as that would be, I believe we will fail.
But yes, absolutely — we need to start leading, and quit following (reacting).
There’s no appearance of health CARE reform when he’s seen standing in front of a large banner proclaiming we need health INSURANCE reform.
I have been saying this for quite some time. If the Republicans and their lobbyist masters think that a healthcare bill will pass eventually, they will *ALLOW* their hounds to vote the Finance Bill out of committee and then vote on it on the floor. I sure am not counting on Harry Reid to be a ‘Profile in Courage’. This is a scenario I think will happen. Then the ‘tables will be turned’. The Republicans talking up the ‘healthcare reform bill’ and the progressives saying “Vote against it”. I tell you, this Republican agenda seems to ‘win’ every time. I’m about sick of it! Of course, it would be helpful if the person we campaigned for, worked for, donated to, would get behind us and fight for ‘change WE believe in’ and THOUGHT he believed in, too.
Boy, you must type pretty fast! I guess the most direct answer is to keep pounding away at the fundamentals, using the old “facts are stubborn things,” philosophy. Yesterday Anderson Cooper did a great story on the incredible burden of paperwork that patients have to endure. This is a real problem and definitely hits home with anyone who has gone through the health insurance meat grinder. And yes, it IS designed to discourage people from following through on their claim. CNN even plugged in Wendell Potter to refute what the Company guy said. These fact based reality stories are most effective but I still wonder, at this point in our nation’s history, whether even a 100% number in favor of real health reform would be able to carry the day. But perhaps it has always seemed that way. Gotta go, thanks for the response.
This is a good point. The Republicans would love nothing more than to be seen to be fighting for the “little guy” in all of this. They know that support for Big Insurance is fairly unpalatable to the average middle-income voter, so they’re painting health care reform as more “tax and spend, big government” stuff. However, just imagine their glee if they could be the guys fighting “big business” for the “little guy” — there’s far more rage at big business on the “right” these days, than anything else.
This is why my incessant, broken record refrain of “control the message” is so important. Over on HuffPo, I’ve taken to repeating the (annoying) meme of “NO PUBLIC OPTION means NO REFORM.” It’s simplistic, it ignores single payer and — it’s memorable. It’s the kind of thing that sticks in people’s memories. It’s the kind of stuff we need to do if we want to control the story in the media and — more importantly — have any chance of WINNING this battle.
Ultimately, since Obama has tried to (falsely) paint himself as a nonpartisan player in all of this, he’s relegated to a much less important role than he might have. If he wades in fists swinging right now, it might engender as much suspicion as sympathy.
we need to tune out the media…Reminds me of the scene in the Exorcist where the older priest tells the younger priest,during the exorcism ritual,
“Don’t listen to them,don’t listen to them”..(THEM being LEGION,a coven of demons,that is…)
Sounds about right,doncha think?
Yeah, I type fast, and this is something I care a lot about, so I type a lot :)
I think your comments and suggestions are good ones. One thing we “little people” can do to further the cause is to try to keep hounding our local MSM outlets to carry important stories, like people sick and dying due to health insurance malfeasance, or about how little reform is in a “health reform bill” with no public option. Enough of these little stories add up to a big effect.
And don’t discount the effect of millions of “ordinary people” in all of this. I concur that to a large extent the lobbyists are holding our government hostage. But I don’t think that the situation is irredeemable — yet — or I would be one of the ones advocating for a revolution.
Norske has it exactly right. Obama is going to have to realize that if he doesn’t produce as a real Democrat between now and the midterms, that’s exactly when he becomes a lame duck, and he’ll likely be out in ‘12. So strategically, he absolutely needs to deliver for the people on HIR, now, whether that’s where his heart is or not.
And that is an encouraging thought.
Well, ok. I wasn’t specific enough, but I think you know what I mean.
I DO agree that simple, direct and unambiguous is key here. That’s why “No Public Option means NO REFORM,” works well. FDR supposedly claimed that he didn’t push universal health care because he could’nt explain it. Same problem exists now so simple and clear is important. Sound bite nation? Whatever works!
Well, I never expected Obama to get rid of government evesdropping because it is simply not in the nature of those who hold power to willingly or eaisly give up any power that has already accrued to them. I guess that means I was always somewhat cynical about Obama as a politician. However, I do believe that Obama is astute enough as a politician to know that the cost of spikeing any kind of PO is political suicide.
Citizen Hmmmm:
I’m glad there is someone out there who can understand Norskespeak…I know that my English are terrible and my syntax don’t pay the bills but why is it so hard for progressives to understand that politics sometimes makes politicians do the right thing inspite of themselves and in Obama’s case let’s all remember thhat he knows that the bosses will throw ‘im to the wolves unless he can keep upwards of 50%…what is most important to understand, however, is that in the end game here, unlike with Clinton, if Obama loses the progressive vote that’s his entire base in the white voting community…I’m serious Citizen, if Obama stumbles in the polls we will see the JFK syndrome return before 2012.
Lay off the kool-aid. You could possibly still believe that and that tinkerbell will get better if we clap, if not for all of the other progressive promises that have been exchanged for staying right with the Bush policies. Even the big one on not torturing, Obama kept rendition. You obly use renditioning iof you want to do things to people that are not allowed here in the States. We still need to support his Presidency, but we need to knock off the idol worship transformational stuff. The curtain is pulled back and we now see the wizard for real. It is time to use our political pressure to push him and the other traditional , weak, flawed democrats and make them do the right thing. Making excuses for him and waiting will not help him or us.
Well a whole lotta damage can be done in one term…and… STILL be rewarded by the corporate masters.
FDR told activists in his own party, “I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it.”
Indeed. It SHOULDN’T be this way, but unless you can sum your position up in a soundbite of 10 seconds or less — no matter how much that soundbite butchers the nuances of the issue — then you will lose. It’s really that simple…
Citizen Gitchegumee:
You still don’t get it,Citizen, Obama is not one of “them” and when a President, even one like Richard Nixon, flops in public unless he is “one of them” like George W. Bush the bosses get rid of ‘im with a flick of the wrist…Obama is not only not “one of them” is is a BLACK “not one of them”. Do ya get it yet?!! Obama knows he can’t rely on the oligarchy or the federal retirement system for his life after the presidency.
Exactly; no matter what you personally think about Obama, I think we’re in the same boat. Whether he wants to or not, whether he’s genuine or not, whether he’s “one of us” or not, if we want him to enact real progressive change, we have to make him do it.
My sentiments exactly sir.
It the sheer amount of HOW Corporate that OBama turned out to be that’s soul crushing. I knew he was a corporate shill, but I didn’t think that big of one, so I let myself be fooled.
Still I’d have voted for anyone over a republican.
To bad I won’t vote for Obama 2nd time unless he gets his game in gear.
The WH does not feel our pain yet. They think we have no choice but to vote for them and, besides, that 19 mil from Health Care lobbyists in the presidential election sure was nice. So, they buy the idea that money trumps a few looser progressives. This lobbying money is becoming even a greater necessity for them now that their Grass Roots Movement (Organizing America) has shriveled up. I remember when I was a member of that movement and started to have some serious doubts when he would not hear any pleading to vote against FISA. I should have known better then, but I bit the bullet and continued to support him. What a wonderful and hopeful day the inauguration was, its been downhill ever since. We can only keep hitting them with our support of progressives only, no more more money should go to the DCCC or the DSCC.
All of you can talk about this ’til the cows come home but it isn’t going to mean shit-the system is terminal and any change has to come from outside of it. Strike, quit participating, quit buying, quit talking to people who take millions and have absolutely no interest in what you think.
Yes I am mad, and if I piss you off that’s good, we need to think about these things from different perspectives and mine may be wrong but it is headed in the right direction.
Calling it reform would make Obama a reformer. Mmmm, smell the truthiness.
Then it’s ” he’s a bastard but he’s the only bastard we got!” So Push, Push, PUSH ! ! !
Yeah, but Obama does not agree with us and will only ever coincidentally work with us if it serves his corporate masters.
Aw hell Norske, you always make perfect sense to me.
Yore Pal,
— Hmmm
So Jane and FDL readers are just as dumb as the rest of the DC villagers.
You seem to believe on face value, what you read in Roll Call from unnamed sources talking about a plan that the WH denies?
Must make for nice coffee shop talk …
But to get your shorts in a bunch of over this traditional DC insider parlor game is pretty pathetic to watch here …
We progs are abused children and tend to flinch at the slightest noise. So the WH denies it? THAT is your evidence that it’s not true? At every step in the road here the pessimists have been right. If not for a pretty strenuous effort the PO would already be mouldering in the grave. For God’s sakes look at the evidence.
Laughable. O has ALWAYS been one of “them.” He never would have got to the 2nd primary if he were’nt. What do you think all these back room deals w/ big Pharma and the insurance cartel were all about? How about all the Lobbyist parties in Denver? FISA. I don’t care what color he is. You dance to the tune the piper plays or you don’t get to dance. Maybe he can be pushed – if it’s comfy for him. But I doubt it. The “bosses” will throw him to the wolves if he tries to buck them, period. He ain’t got the guts.
yeah, Norske’s ALL CAPS advocacy on behalf of Goldman Sach’s chosen candidate has a kind of strange irony, hard to characterize gently, so I won’t go there. He’s a made man, those pressure points are illusory, and he’s doing just fine as far as the elite class is concerned – he has neutralized the Left in a time of crisis/opportunity in a way that (R) managers couldn;t do.
Great then tell me about a secret negotiation with big progressive to push trough a robust public option… or a committee the WH is supporting in marking up the same? Or tell me Rahm didn’t cut off funding with a forked tongue for such supporters at the knees.
There is a very consistent pattern whether this article hit print or nay.
In response to reader@37 (show text)
I am with you.
It’s possible. But if that happens the Republicans can’t pin the bad bill on the Democrats. Progressives can run on their opposition to the bill and the progressive wing of the Party can use the bill bill against blue dogs and Conservadems. Also, progressives can then join with the Medicare for All movement to try to get HR 676 passed next year, before the bad bill takes effect.
What about Russ Feingold?
You’re kidding right? You think the public will believe that Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich voted against a “reform” bill that wasn’t a stinko?
See you there! :-))
How about Grayson/Grijalva?