The Senate Finance Committee is viewable on CSPAN3, or streamed live on the CSPAN website. The first two parts of our liveblog is available here and here.
2:39: Baucus. All trying to get to same end, improve health care system. Consistency, coherence. My job is to put together a bill that will get 60 votes. No one has been able to show me how to get to 60 votes. I included public option in white paper. Would help to hold insurance company feet to fire.
[Baucus I guess has forgotten what a majority is and how many Democrats are in there I guess MaxTax can't count the number of those who caucus with Dems.]
Blahblahblahblah.
2:31: Cornyn. Entitlements we have threaten to bankrupt this country. [No, wars of choice threaten to bankrupt this country] If there are no insurance companies offering health care plans, that leaves federal govt. Medicare poor model to replicate. When policy makers decide what will be in the plan antithesis of what we ought to do. Adding yet another govt program will make the problems worse. Taking money out of Medicare to fund new proposal. Medicare riddled with waste fraud and abuse.
[Asshole says taking this fraud money out of Medicare is taking it out of Medicare.]
Cornyn. Govt bad govt bad govt bad govt bad govt bad govt bad govt bad govt bad govt bad govt bad. The AMA say they don’t believe it would help. Mayo Clinic said it would bankrupt the country. [Funny, the actual DOCTORS as well as Mayo actually support this--and haven't you heard from Bunning how few doctors are part of AMA?] No public option for Senators. Ought to have same choices among private coverage as govt, this would deny them those choices.
[Bill Nelson skips his turn, waiting for Schumer]
2:20: Kerry. Our friends on other side of aisle are arguing about public plan that is not being talked about. Keep using Medicare and Medicaid, as reason why Rockefeller ought not be accepted. Rockfeller’s plan is not entitlement. Medicare and Medicaid, special populations. This, by law, required to pay for itself. Must operate by same rules as private plans. Question really has to be asked, what are friends afraid of? Competitive choice? Protecting insurance companies?We’re talking about care. We’re talking about people who have paid for years but cast out. Affordable set of alternatives. Public plan wrong name for this. Not going to have those subsidies. Premiums themselves paid have to pay the load. 25% goes to profit and admin. 30% in individual market. 30% profit for someone who gets sick who doesn’t even get the care they paid for. A lot of our good health care comes with federal dollars. NIH, NSF. 25% at the expense of people to have the ability to take care of themselves? So-called cost-shifting. That has been debunked by MedPac. MedPac, high profit levels of private insurance permit the hospitals to spend more. A lot of people angry about the way people get treated by insurance. Several billions transferred into pockets of executives. Strongly support this measure. Market will work its magic with this option. Some way of providing real competition.
2:10: Crapo. Medicare rates. $113 billion reductions in Medicare Advantage rates. What other changes?
[Crapo doesn't look like his name. I've leave that observation there.]
[Pay based on accuracy, if higher than costs justify, host of provisions relating to market basket adjustments, require increased productivity.]
WRT those provisions, net budget impact?
[I don't have most recent number, north of $400 billion.]
That’s adequate, thank you very much. Opposition to proposal for govt option. Most debate on choice and competition. Strongly believe that if we were to adopt govt option, reduce choice and reduce competition. Govt run plan really only sure way to reduce competition.
I personally think that studies show that public option will drive people out of sector, govt run plan with ability to set prices, 118 million losing their private insurance. [Hey, don't you want to tell us the study was sponsored by the insurance companies? And we have only our shitty insurance to lose!!] Reduction in quality. [Then the insurance companies should be able to compete, right???] In this one part of Medicare (Medicare Advantage), high levels of satisfaction. We have two major govt health care systems, Medicare, Medicaid. [I guess our service men and women and veterans don't count??] Another major entitlement, and have got run it as well. Large transition. Anybody that paid attention in August, significant amount of unhappiness about govt run health care. What can we do to improve competition. Need to expand private sector. [I need a macro for "we need to expand competition across state lines"]
[When did Republicans become such opponents of state's rights??]
Experience has shown that govt is not going to provide that competition.
2:02: Cantwell. Medicare and Medicaid rates–you would pay rates based on current law. Under current bill, rates would be different than they are today. [Based on new bill] So if you were from an efficient state, like Conrad’s, you’d be making more money than you are now. Important part to debate, on public option. My view is about market competition and market forces. I certainly believe we’re spending at least half the money to tax subsidies to buy insurance that’s expensive insurance. I’d like to see more competition to that. One can be federal govt. Why do I want to see that competition? Wages only gone up 29%, insurance premiums go up 129%, insurance profits 428% we know where the money came from, it came from insurance premiums. Extraordinary profits in short period of time. What are we going to do to restore competition so somebody isn’t walking away with the store. Credit card companies are now gouging consumers even though we supposedly passed a law. To say nothing of the drug companies. Instead of adopting having clout in marketplace, we went to private sector, I’d ask anybody to look at price of prescription drugs in last few years. Are we going to stand with public and use bulk purchasing power of the public to drive down cost. I support public option to do that. That will drive down costs by using that power in the marketplace. I’d support other amendments that would allow private sector to participate. That’ll be another debate. This debate is really about whether we’re going to have the kind of competition that will help us with 94% consolidation. Cost shifting, probs in the market place, CMS is going to have to pay a rate that will attract physicians. But if we do nothing, and the rates go up another 120% in the private sector, which is what everyone agrees is going to happen if we do nothing. Stand on side of competition. American people want us to stand on their side to end unrelenting increase they’ve seen.
1:56: Bunning still droning on. People in Congress and staffs and people in Admin and their staffs and judiciary and their staffs. Some of my grandkids are not capable of telling me what they want on insurance. [But that's assuming I'm capable of telling them what they want on insurance.] If we have single payer we’re going to restrict what is available. I heard profits mentioned.
[Now Bunning is arguing for single payer!!]
1:51: Bunning: A lot of charts being used. Market share of two largest insurers by states. If insurers could sell across state lines. Many more insurance companies bidding for business. In 1992 KY General Assembly passed restrictive laws, 48 competitive companies at that time, after law, 1.5 insurance company bidding on health care. [Bunning is pretty much making the case for public option here,but he's too thick to realize it.] If we’d allow to sell across state lines, we’d have many more bidding to do business. I hope everyone realizes that only 20% of doctors belong to AMA.
[Bunning is a colossally stupid man. He's undercutting the argument Ensign was just making--which was that AMA is opposed to public option, and instead ignoring that polls of ALL doctors is a better read on public option, showing that doctors prefer public option, it's just the lobbyists who don't.]





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One word for Bunning the Senile: COLLUSION! (You might remember it from baseball, Jimbo.)
That’s why the insurance companies have the US divvied up into little fiefdoms.
From The UpTake’s live blog:
http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%22%23hcr%22
ohhh, the arguement that they should compete across state lines! I hope one of them finally blows that out of the water. As if the solution is to allow all the Insurance companies to relocate in whatever state has the most lax restrictions so the protections that MY state has enacted are worthless when the insurance company skrews me.
That “across state lines, could that be a Walmart pitch?
Bunning is one inning short of a game… one base short of a diamond.
His “little chart” makes no sense in this conversation.
And since there is no federal regulation of insurance companies, it is very difficult for states from their limited perspective to ascertain when an insurer is going off the edge.
Competition across state lines would help if they all played by the same set of rules, but that would require the insurance companies to be included in the Sherman Antitrust Act.
We’d probably also need to actually enforce Federal laws against them…
Try the CITI Bank pitch. That worked real well didn’t it
“across state lines !” and “tort reform !” are the only arrows in their anemic quiver
Is Baucus sitting there adding up how much he’s gotten from the insurance companies to bring this whole charade to us?
He certainly looks… well insured doesn’t he?
Cantwell is really tearing up the R’s arguments about rates & competition.
I hear you. But seriously, Walmart is all in to being a health care provider and insurer all in one. “Mc-health care” so to speak.
I had heard the “across state lines” often, but I just connected the concept to what Walmart wants to do for health care and the thought scares me.
The Rethugs are never gonna get off that lame tort reform agenda. They don’t tell anybody that corporations sue more people than people sue corporations. When a corpse sues a human the human usually goes into bankruptcy. When a human sues a corpse the budget for printer paper takes a slight hit.
I’d like to respond to a comment in the first “Senate Finance Committee Liveblog” thread this morning:
I specifically wrote that I sent money to DCCC and less money to DSCC. In fact, in August, the DCCC significantly outraised their Republican counterparts in the House, while the NRSC (National Republican Senatorial Committee) outraised their Democratic counterparts in the Senate.
I’d say that that’s because Democrats across the country are much happier with what the House Democrats are doing re health care reform (most of them aren’t Mike Ross’s and Jim Cooper’s!), while Democrats are very, very unhappy with what the Senate Democrats are doing (not enough of them are Schumer’s and Rockefeller’s).
THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS IN THE SENATE, AND SO I RECOMMEND SENDING LESS MONEY TO THE DSCC, if any.
I sent the money I didn’t send to the DSCC – and added some! – to FDL Action’s ad against Arkansas Sen Lincoln and Rep Ross and to Health Care for America NOW!
Go get ‘em, Maria!
“Welcome to Wal-Mart.
Get yer shit and get out.
Have a nice day.”
“We’d probably also need to actually enforce Federal laws against them”
??
Would we then go to the McHospital and get fed happy meals.
Back to the cesspool.
Namaste
My point is that regulatory laws in a number of other areas exist but are laxly enforced (or often enough, simply not enforced at all), and so any sort of laws/regulations that would allow interstate competition for insurance, and manage the same would have to be enforced (sort of like our environmental protection laws).
DEMS GONNA CUT MEDICARE OOOOGA BOOOOGA!!!! (Um, not really.)
Only if those Happy Meals are provided by the Free Market, because gov’t sponsored Happy Meals would be on the slippery slope to Obamarxism.
But when you send the money to the DSCC they in turn support and send the money to blue dogs. Act Blue differentiates between blue dogs and progressives and tries to only support progressives.
hehe. perhaps we can get them to mess up tort reform so that corps can no longer legally harass humans…. after all, we are talking about the same bunch of rethug idiots who very nearly accidentally defunded all defense contractors last week when they were trying to shut down ACORN.
Ooooh….ding ding ding… Crapo (appropriate) is making the less regulation argument! How Original and Refreshing, why, I never thought of this idea. I’m a proud republican now! Thanks, Mike!
Shorter Crapo: If we allow government to play, the government will set rates, not negotiate them and will run all other players out of the business.
{I’m not sure how this would be a bad thing, but I’ll go along with it for now…}
Ah, here it is – It would simply run health care providers out of business by paying Medicare rates, and would reduce quality and availability of health care.
The fact that this hasn’t happened in any other country that has national health care or single payer doesn’t seem to bother him.
Public plans result in reduction in quality? Tell that to the VA Mr. Crapo — ever since Clinton fixed it up it has been consistently ranked as having the best care in the US.
I also want to contribute to the ad by Democracy for America and the Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC) that calls out Sen. Max Baucus for stalling health care reform.
Check out the ad, which is currently running in Montana and DC, at http://healthcarecantwait.com
I agree.
“regulatory laws in a number of other areas exist but are laxly enforced”
IRS SUBSECTION F EXEMPT ORGANIZATION and STATE PUBLIC CHARITY LAW
http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/nccsTools.php
Medicare unsustainable? Oh, you mean like public highways are unsustainable?
Clap Louder !!
just released today – Kaiser Family Foundation – showing support for PO increased across the board in September – but I loves me this little bite here:
we can save the link for later
Public option = Islamofascistcommiemarxism, where everyone will be gay and all churches will be burnt to the ground … *booga* *booga*
Fair enough. Still learning how to navigate through the system. I’ll go to ActBlue next time so I can target contributions better!
close to a vote!!
Crapo seems to think having more private companies in the states will be sufficient, but also wants to allow for pooling of people from small businesses (isn’t this the “co-op” argument?), and cerate cross-state line competition operating under the more lenient state (soft or what MosquitoFleet was saying earlier). Says government is not now & never has been the solution to ANY problem.
and they’ll take your guns away. Don’t forget that one.
A Wingnut told me that since BO’s Cash for Clunkers program, car prices have gone up, which makes it harder for people to afford cars … how do you argue with teh stoopit ?!!
Kerry: Rockefeller’s plan would have to operate under its own funding, and would not receive $$$ from the gov’t, so couldn’t run under the same assumptions as Medicare!
someone should ask each of these rethugs whether there is any bill they would support at all.. whether they’d even vote for Baucus’ dog. If the answer is no, then the rest of the country will know not to pay attention to a single thing they care to say.
Dammit man, that’ was ‘posed to be secret … *g*
Kerry is now cutting through the Medicare/Medicaid crap Crapo just spewed.
Kerry: 70% of the states have 2 or fewer insurance companies. This will provide another alternative to the people in those states.
Go, Kerry, go!
Kerry is calling the republicans out.
We’re not talking about cars, we’re talking about care for human beings.
Didn’t Schumer make a similar point more generally earlier?
You gotta wonder how many times they have to say it before the rest of them get it…
Oh, right. They don’t want to get it.
Kerry’s bringing up the carving of the US into separate insurance fiefdoms inside of which no competition currently exists for all practical purposes. Take THAT, Senile Jim!
Kerry: Premiums will have to pay for the Rockefeller plan, so there will be no Federal subsidies or bailouts!
yeah, they’re PAID not to get it
It’s immensely difficult to get someone to understand something when their livelihood depends on them NOT understanding it.
I wish he would invite Senator Bunning — who just got done maundering for half a century about getting insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines — to back putting Big Ins under the Sherman act.
I’m loving Kerry.
Touche !
Kerry is SO Thurston Howell III, Lovee….
Like what Kerry is saying, although I dislike Kerry intensely.
Mcjoan just ripped into Ensign’s math: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..aulty-Math
Kerry: Medicare isn’t UNDERPAYING according to MedPAC, rather THEY are subsidizing Private insurance rates!
Finally! Someone saying Medicare ISN’T underpaying. This lie is right in line with the “providers taking losses by paying for the uninsured” lie. The truth is that providers get Federal reimbursements for the uninsured based on the billed cost (which may be 10x the cost charged to insurance companies for the same service) and it actually ends up making them more money because they get paid partially by the recipient (on average) and claim the balance as a loss to the Feds. In fact, it works out to a very small loss if any loss at all is realized.
Excellent work, all ! Marcy, you are indeed Superwoman !
ttyl
LOL perfect !
Form990 Return of Organization Exempt
From Income Tax OMB No 1545-0047
Under section 501 (c), 527, or 4947 (a)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code (except black lung 2007_ benefit trust or private foundation)
Department of the Open to Public
Treasury -The organization may have to use a copy of this return to satisfy state reporting requirements
Inspection
Internal Revenue Service
A For the 2007 calendar year, or tax year beginning 01-01-2007 and ending 12-31-2007
B Check if applicable
1 Address change
(- Name change
F Initial return
(- Final return
F-Amended return
Please
use IRS
C Name of organization
KAISER FOUNDATION HEALTH PLAN
OF THE MID-ATLANTIC STATES INC
D Employer identification number
52-0954463
label or
print or Number and street (or P 0 box if mail is not delivered to street address ) Room /suite E Telephone number
type. See ONE KAISER PLAZA SUITE 1550L
S ecific
(510 ) 271-6611
p
Instruc – City or town, state or country, and ZIP + 4 FAccounting method fl Cash F Accrual
tions . OAKLAND, CA 94612
Other ( specify) 0-
(- Application pending
* Section 501(c)(3) organizations and 4947(a)(1) nonexempt charitable
trusts must attach a completed Schedule A (Form 990 or 990-EZ).
G Web site: – N/A
I Organization type (check only one) 1- F 95 501(c) (3) -4 (insert no ) 1 4947(a)(1) or F_ 527
K Check here 1- 1 if the organization is not a 509(a)(3) supporting organization and its gross receipts are
normally not more than 25,000 A return is not required, but if the organization chooses to file a return,
be sure to file a complete return
H and I are not applicable to section 527 organizations
H(a) Is this a group return for affiliates? 1 Yes F No
H(b) If “Yes” enter number of affiliates 0-
H(c) Are all affiliates included? (- Yes F_ No
(If “No,” attach a list See instructions )
H(d) Is this a separate return filed by an organization
covered by a group ruling? F Yes F No
I Group Exemption Number 0-
M Check – F if the organization is not required to
L Gross receipts Add lines 6b, 8b, 9b, and 10b to line 12 0- 2,228,206,836 attach Sch B (Form 990, 990-EZ, or990-PF)
n i Revenue . Expenses. and Chances in Net Assets or Fund Balances (See the instructions.)
1 Contributions, gifts, grants, and similar amounts received
a Contributions to donor advised funds la
b Direct public support (not included on line 1a) . lb
c Indirect public support (not included on line 1a) . 1c
d Government contributions (grants) (not included on line 1a) ld
e Total (add lines la through 1d) (cash $ noncash $ ) le
2 Program service revenue including government fees and contracts (from Part VII, line 93) 2 1,939,546,503
3 Membership dues and assessments 3
4 Interest on savings and temporary cash investments 4 8,914,757
5 Dividends and interest from securities 5
6a Gross rents 6a 117,325
b Less rental expenses 6b 0
c Net rental income or (loss) subtract line 6b from line 6a . 6c 117,325
W 7 Other investment income (describe – ) 7
16
8a Gross amount from sales of assets (A) Securities (B) Other
a other than inventory . 272,336,404 8a 260,075
b Less cost or other basis and sales expenses 272,928,710 8b 93,724
c Gain or (loss) (attach schedule) . -592,306 Sc 166,351
d Net gain or (loss) Combine line 8c, columns (A) and (B) . . . . . . . . . . 8d -425,955
9 Special events and activities (attach schedule) If any amount is from gaming, check here 0-F
a Gross revenue (not including $ of
contributions reported on line 1b) 9a
b Less direct expenses other than fundraising expenses . 9b
c Net income or (loss) from special events Subtract line 9b from line 9a . c
10a Gross sales of inventory, less returns and allowances . 10a
b Less cost of goods sold 10b
c Gross profit or (loss) from sales of inventory (attach schedule) Subtract line 10b from line 10a 10c
11 Other revenue (from Part VII, line 103) 11 7,031,772
12 Total revenue Add lines le, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6c, 7, 8d, 9c, 10c, and 11 . . . . . . . 12 1,955,184,402
I don’t think that anyone should send any money to any national Democratic organization. Not only do they support Blue Dogs, they also put a lot of pressure on everyone else they support, and they refuse to support good candidates that don’t fit their battle plan.
If you want Rahm Emmanuel or another party hack to route your money for you, give money to the national Democrats. Otherwise, route your money yourself.
anyone do a count for one of the PO amendments? -
MAX BAUCUS, MT
JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, WV – Yes
KENT CONRAD, ND
JEFF BINGAMAN, NM
JOHN F. KERRY, MA – Yes
BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, AR
RON WYDEN, OR
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, NY – Yes
DEBBIE STABENOW, MI – Yes
MARIA CANTWELL, WA – Yes?
BILL NELSON, FL
ROBERT MENENDEZ, NJ – Yes?
THOMAS CARPER, DE
CHUCK GRASSLEY, IA – No
ORRIN G. HATCH, UT – No
OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, ME – No?
JON KYL, AZ – No
JIM BUNNING, KY – No
MIKE CRAPO, ID – No
PAT ROBERTS, KS – No
JOHN ENSIGN, NV – No
MIKE ENZI, WY – No
JOHN CORNYN, TX – No
12 votes needed to pass right? We have 6 evident so far, at least. Which means we need 6 of the 7 additional Dems at least (minus or plus whichever way Snowe plans to vote).
How is this for quality:
Our health care a few years back, denied a procedure for our son three times because they thought he was too young and alternatives had not explored enough. Then months past, there was no other option but surgery. Our son’s surgery was pre-approved. Unfortunately, the surgery ran longer directly due to complications which were the result of the previous months of health insurance denying the much needed surgery.
They ended up denying the “pre-approved” surgery because of the complications they caused from their own decision and stuck us with a $25,000 bill.
$1,955,184,402 2007 total revenue for one plan!
Kaiser the 5th largest tax exempt corporation with assets totaling $55 billion, tax exempt?
1.9 billion in premiums collected by Kaiser’s mid Atlantic Health plan for 2007 A 501 c3 tax exempt health insurance corporation operating at a state level.
Slave owners… Jim Crow Segregationist… now state mandated incorporated servitude to tax exempt health insurance corporations?
No Civil right issue here????
Cornyn the post turtle speaking now.
Just to be cynical, what’s the point of these debates? If they’re holding the vote right afterwards, how would any senator have time to process the information and rethink their position? Seems like ineffectual theater to me.
Cornyn has a problem with telling insurance companies that they have to provide certain services. Insists that this will be a Federal program and will reduce Medicare funding. Same old B.S. that the R’s always spout.
sue those bastards……………damn them to eternal hell
They’re pretending to inform us, they get to act all statesman-like and lots of face time on TV. They love that.
No free lunch, damn straight!
Cornyn sounds strained & hesitant.
strip these old mofos of their government health plans NOW!!
Oy, there goes cornyn lamenting the demise of competition, Boo Hoo.
What we really need is less competition and more competence.
Competition breeds shortcuts & shoddiness. Product or service Quality always suffers in the face of profit wars.
That’s why capitalism is dying, it always ultimately shits on its customers.
The Republican arguments today sounded tired and formulaic and unconvincing.
Why do puppets hate the theatre? /s
Cronyn keeps calling it an entitlement, it’s not an entitlement.
Sixty votes, eh Baucus?
Baucus doesn’t sound any better.
the producers over at Fox email ‘em out every morning. All that’s required of the rethug members of Congress is to read them ad verbatim.
!!
Baucus votes against PO
Why not fight for it if you think it’s a good idea. WEASEL!
Have they passed dental and vision for all yet?
He needs to go. The fucker.
I hate Baucus SO much.
”I will vote against the PO because it won’t get enough votes. My goal is to get the bill passed.”
No, the goal is to reform health care. If you can’t do that, at least ”do no harm.”
Et tu Baucus?
Hopefully that will be what he gets when he runs next time for the nomination to run for the senate.
Rockefeller the vote!
Sounds like Baucus is planning to sell us out. He certainly made his statement trying to give himself cover for that.
Cornyn just cited Lewin as expert on some forecasts of hospital usage rates, if the dreaded public option is enacted!? Isn’t Lewin the brainchild of United Health Care, as in fully funded by same??
Sort of like “Coney Island? Nobody goes there anymore…it’s too crowded.”
if Baucus is going to vote against it, we may not have enough votes to carry the committee. That means we absolutely need Blanche Lincoln’s vote. I can see Nelson, Carper, Wyden and Bingaman voting for one of the two options (especially Schumer) but that’ll only put us at 10 – two short. And the only other possibilities are Conrad, Baucus, Lincoln and, if heck freezes over, Snowe.
If we can’t get the PO, I hope that some combination of Rockefeller, Schumer and Kerry will move to block this in committee. Given 10 likely rethug votes in opposition to any plan (even Baucus’ dog), all we need are two Dem votes to block. Please God, give one of these people the courage to do that.
Baucus is delusional! Enslave the American People to corporations as sure as Justice Taney found for slave owners!
Baucus is telling people we have a better and cheaper option for you and the govt but we will not do it.
When’s he up?
Are the seeds of civil war being sown here, again?
”I don’t buy it when somebody says ’I want to have a health care bill, I don’t care what’s in it, I just want to have a health care bill, so I can sign it.”
THANK YOU, Mr. Rockefeller.
oooh that’s gonna leave a mark -
Rockefeller: ‘this can’t be about process, it has to be about people’
Give the people a choice! – Rockyfeller
”You gotta see PEOPLE when you vote.”
”Insurance companies can take care of themselves, they always have, they always will.”
This man is my new hero.
Don’t believe it is until 2014.
…for a change./snark
Give the people a choice! – Rockybalboafeller
yes this is about “due process” for “people” not just “”corporations”" at the state level, who profit while people die!
The Democrats were great today. They were prepared and they were focused, and they focused on what really matters – what this means for people.
Oh yeah!
”Ohhhh yes, Medicare has all sorts of problems. That’s why it’s so popular, I guess. You could say the same thing about Social Security if it were a health insurance program.”
Damn, it’s zinger after zinger from Rockefeller!
minus Baucus
Free the slaves…. can’t cost to much??
We need to start right now to get rid of this filthy traitor. Should pound away every single day at him and the people in his state so that they will know what he has done. He is loathsome.
Too Bad the President could not influence Max.
Looks like the President will not get his bill, then, cause no PO, no bill.
Rockefeller: ”the public option is on the march. And if you want a single-payer system or a government run system, you do exactly what my Republican friends are doing — just say no to everything.”
“The Public Option is on the march!”
Here we go
Kill the bill!
I am so tired of Baucus and Conrad screwing us while the President sits on the sidelines.
Is Max posturing on his recent restatement of being against the Public Option? IE will support another amendment?
I counted 8 Ayes
8-15 Fail.
8 ayes, 15 nays, Rockefeller fails.
Grr.
And sadly, the amendment fails on a straight party line vote.
lincoln = No
nelson = No
sNOwe = no
Baucus = No
By voting no, these so-called fence sitters just shit down your neck.
don’t forget Carper voting no
Jackasses. Sellouts. Baucus=Faucus.
not at all—no from Lincoln, Baucus, Nelson, Conrad . . . . well, maybe it is a straight party line—the party of the Medical Industrial Complex
f*ckers.
Well maybe we’d have the votes if you’d freakin’ vote for it. Talk about your self-fulfilling failure!!! Does Montana have a provision for a recall election?
The result is unsurprising, but still disappointing.
Time for *us* to march, friends. How do we clean house?
Mr Chairman, no.
8 Yea’s 15 Ney’s
ACTION: Pressuring Baucus from the left on the Public Option
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8532
baucus-no
conrad-no
lincoln-no
nelson-no
carper-no
Tell me why does it matter if we have a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress again?
Here is what Jon Walker wrote yesterday about the public option amendments for today.
Yea he’s trying out for scumbaghood too.
Exactly. A party line vote of the Corporatists vs. the Peoples’ Representatives.
I don’t see how Schumer’s bill will fare any better.
What’s the next step? This IS only the Finance Committee, right?
There are two other bills in the senate?
When do THEY come to final committee?
Big thanks to Mz. Wheeler for live blogging, and big thanks to Pups above for insightful comments and thoughts.
On we hope.
which specific amendment is Sen Schumer now introducing ??
WE NEED A HUGE DEMONSTRATION
we should now focus on getting Rockefeller and Schumer’s commitment to prevent a PO-less bill from leaving the finance committee. With 10 rethugs against any bill, all we need are two votes to block. Then the president will have to switch his attention to the HELP bill, with the PO.. he won’t have a choice. And it’ll be uphill then for Obama/Rahm because instead of selling out the PO by not including it they’ll have to campaign actively against it.
IMPEACH/RECALL Baucus!
We get to talk about healthcare reform.
Agreed. No strong public option NEEDS to mean that we have NO BILL!
All the evidence is that Baucus and Obama are on the same page. That’s even more infuriating.
it looks like Schumer’s amendment may have 9 ayes, since Nelson hinted I believe that he may support it. 3 short.
Our only shot is to get two votes to block this thing. The battle cry should now be “NO Referral”
I couldn’t agree more.
A crappy bill is NOT better than nothing. It could easily make a bad situation (status quo) worse.
We need a death panel to euthanize bad legislation.
I believe the general public, not just the prog blogosphere, is slowly working up to a public display of discontent.
I’d say, within the next 30 days, we’ll see the catalyst set for becoming REALLY discontent and the display of that discontent in the streets. In a civil and peaceful manner, of course.
Demonstrations only matter if they are done by people who are not the likes of us. Teabaggers good. DFH’s not important.
I like the sound of that, well done, Blub . . . . nice insight.
Thanks.
I do have to say after hearing Jay speak so well we may have to ditch the “Jello”
BOOM!
We are that panel.
We turned out millions for civil rights, anti Vietnam War, and more.
We can do it again.
Millions, upon millions. Not just the left, or the progs.
ALL the disgruntled americans, being denied health CARE.
Millions. Possible, methinks.
Ram the business practices regulation down the insurance company’s throats without an individual mandate.
sounds like the so called “level playing field” amendment. Slink points out this is the weaker of 2 Schumer amendments. this is the one the weasel types (Nelson and Carper) are supposed to vote yes on, Blanche and Baucus would make it 12 Ayes to 10 Nays
Schumer is looking for a “Moderate Republican” hahahahahaha
WTF is that? Someone who checks the building code before burning a cross in someone else front yard?
No public option, no deal!
It’s that simple.
This guy’s a Democrat?
Ayep.
I think we can count on Snowe and probably Nelson and maybe even Lincoln to do the wrong thing and vote no on whatever bill comes out. So we may only need one vote to block (and if Lincoln and Nelson both come out as No’s then this’ll never see the light of day anyway). Best to have two or even three, to be on the safe side.. but this may be a photo finish.
That’s another good idea. Strike the mandate!
YES…………I like BELLOW JAY
Quid pro quo: either we get a robust public option or you get no individual mandate, but since we all agree on reasonable insurance regulation, like no preexisting conditions exclusions or recisions or lifetime caps, we’ll just go ahead and do that!
How do we make sure a PO-less bill fails in committee?
Is there anything ”we, the people” can do to influence the process at this point, or is it out of our hands.
LOL
Is nelson punking the insurance corpse? He’s gonna change his vote to yes on the Schumer amendment?
They shudda give him $ome more ca$h.
Snowe got all that nice publicity and felt so important and stuff and predictably did her Republican thing. Obama should be called out for kissing up to her.
I think our focus in this committee should just be to kill this dog. I don’t want it, with or without a mandate, and the emphasis should be to persuade Schumer and Rockefeller to vote No no matter what’s in the bill, as long as there is no PO. Do you really want this bill without a PO even without a mandate? I don’t. We ALL should be calling Rockefeller and Schumer’s office (and probably a few others as well) and urging them to vote No without a PO. Force Obama to embrace the HELP bill or the House version… take away the choice. PO or No, No to referral.
We need to start working on the real dems on the finance committee to vote no on passing the bill out of committee.
WE need to fill Wasington…mid week like the inauguration….plan it now
Blue Cross Blue Shield aka Wellpoint…
a 501 c3 tax exempt corporation???
2007 – Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Massachusetts Hmo Blue Inc (043362283)
2007 – Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts Foundation for Expanding Healthcare Access (043148824)
Form 990
Department of the Treasury
Internal Revenue Service
Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax
Under section 501(c), 527, or 4947(a)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code (except black lung
benefit trust or private foundation)
► The organization may have to use a copy of this return to satisfy state reporting requirements.
OMB No 1545-0047
X007
[Edited by Moderator. Please refrain from posting large comments in this fashion. A small sample of the information and a link should suffice. Thank you.]
So, the private non profit worked real well with FNMA.
OT 7.9 earthquake in pacific tidal wave to hit american samoa
Not for profits corporations can profit under Subsection F IRS code!!
http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/nccsTools.php
new thread
with Scarecrow
Class war.
The insurance companies claim that they can’t do the business practices reform without a guaranteed customer base provided by the individual mandate.
If the politics of addition prevail, we would see a mandate, public option and business practices reforms.
If the politics of subtraction prevail, the mandate and lack of public option might cancel each other out and all that will be left with support from both sides is the business practices reform. That will leave the insurance companies exposed, having to defend the fact that they must continue with reprehensible business practices unless they are able to coerce you to buy their product.
Tried to call Rockefeller and Schumer to urge them to vote down Baucus. Both were busy.
Schumer: 202-224-6542
Rockefeller: 202-224-6472
Sleazebaucus.
Quid pro quo… mandated ‘HEALTH INSURANCE IMPOSED ON THE PEOPLE” to keep corporation a float, on the promise they will no longer discriminate? Servitude to corporations as Jefferson feared!
Rape of America by corporations……..
Bloodletting of America to protect corporations?? Good analogy….
Are all of these astroturf groups?