FDL continues live blog of Senate Finance Committee and amendments to add a public option. Prior posts:
1. Early morning with Jon Walker
2. Late morning with Marcy
3. Early afternoon with Marcy
C-SPAN 3 is providing live coverage.
Apparent Democratic support for Public Option: (all Republicans opposed)
For Rockefeller: Rockefeller, Menendez, Stabenow, Cantwell, Wyden, Kerry, Schumer, Nelson: — support Rockefeller, (and if not, then support Schumer version)
For Schumer: All Dems above plus Bingaman and Carper, who support Schumer’s version because it doesn’t link payments to Medicare payment rates
Opposed: Conrad — opposes any PO not structured as a non-profit, co-op, and opposes any plan tied to Medicare; Baucus, likes the PO, but says his job is to get a bill, so he’ll vote against it; also, "Rome wasn’t built in a day."
Live Blog continued
3:53 — we’ll continue live blog later today, when they consider "trigger" amendments.
3:53: VOTE On Schumer Amendment for a Level-playing field Public Option
Ayes: Schumer and all other Dems, except
Noes: Baucus. Conrad, Lincoln and all Republicans
Schumer Amendment fails: 10 to 13
3:44 Schumer — closing argument. If states are doing such a good job, why are consumers complaining so much, and why are rates continuing to rise so fast. The present system is broken on the private side. Provide the PO attacks costs, and that’s the core problem.
Even average folks who have insurance now and want to keep it need the PO, because it will help hold costs down and that will benefit everyone. Medicare is going broke because of escalating costs; if we wait another 5-6 years to fix this, it will be too late. Private system costs are rising faster than Medicare, so private system will continue to raise rates, or lay off people, or stop providing health insurance at work. This isn’t about ideology; it’s about controlling costs.
3:43 Baucus repeats that he can’t vote for a PO because it can’t get 60 votes because he won’t vote for it.
3:40 Cantwell — reminds all that insurance rates have double in last decade and are projected to double again. This is about whether we give consumers a choice and not wait until it is too late. Trend is unsustainable without more competition; we’re buying into a continuation of the status quo, and we can’t sustain it.
3:38 Cornyn — asks why we shouldn’t trust the Attorney General of Texas to protect consumers from insurance predators? Kyl: of course, all of us Republican Attorney’s General love keeping insurers honest — [which is why the states that are most effective at this are New York and California -- oops those were Dems.]
3:35 Kyl: the PO will become "too big to fail," or too important to fail [that's correct] The PO will not keep private insurers honest; only competition will do that [??] and there’s no competition in so many places because the risk pool is too small. He repeats the spin that the PO will "take people from what they have" instead of explaining that if the PO is attractive, people will choose it over what they have, and he doesn’t note that the bills limit (in initial years) access to the Exchange and PO for precisely that reason.
3:32 Bunning — Schumer misunderstands us; we love Medicare, it’s a good thing and it sucks today. That’s why we oppose Medicare cuts and instead want to increase Medicare payments in his state [because we don't really care when Hatch says the unfunded liability is $32 trillion, but I'm confused, so. . . .]
3:30 Ensign worried about the slippery slope. If we create this PO, it will turn us into Europe. We’ll never eliminate the PO, as Schumer claims we would. We’ll subsidize it, let it grow, because its supporters have a different philosophy [jeez, I hope so]. But we Republicans opposed Government, [because Ron Reagan says government is the problem, and we haven't had an original thought since then.]
We don’t need government to compete against the private sector — takes a shot at GM bailout —
3:25 Grassley continues on why "level playing field" won’t work — concerned that government would be tempted to support consumers under the PO. [I would hope so] So eventually, we would gravitate towards a single payer system, which will bring down the Republic, just like all those European countries that provide universal coverage for less and providers still make money . . . oops. "This is not the change the American people are looking for."
3:20 Grassley — says he loves Medicare and will continue to propose amendments to make it better; tells Schumer he needs to recognize that we’re always trying to make Medicare better. [and this is an argument against a PO?] But Medicare hasn’t met all our assurances.
Level playing field is unattaintable [I agree, but for different reasons; it's shouldn't be the goal, because the PO has once set of incentives/goals; the private insurers have other goals/incentives, and they will follow those incentives to different ends.]
Complains that Medicare interferes with medical decisions, and doesn’t pay providers enough, leading to shortages.
3:15 Conrad — this is better, because not tied to Medicare, compared to that scary House bill which gets it right. But he still disagrees with the idea of having a PO which is run by the government. He repeats his misunderstanding of other countries Germany, France, Japan, Switzerland — as a reason why we shouldn’t have a PO that is government run. Instead, he wants a "public interest" option, that is not government run but which magically always follows the public option because he wants it to. [he's never explained how you achieve that over time, without direct government oversight by government entities/boards dedicated by statute to that public purpose. And he doesn't explain why he supports Medicare.]
3:06 Nelson — I will vote for the Schumer amendment. In Fla, 20% are uninsured, and antoehr 5% are in individual markets. These are the only people (plus small businesses) who will be eligible to go into the exchange and be able to choose the PO. So numbers likely to be affected by the PO is small, so the concern about this leading to single payer for all is not credible. Only 25% in his state will even be eligible to make the choice in an Exchange.
3:12 Bingaman — favors Schumer because it’s not tied to Medicare payment rates. Wants assurance the PO would be "non-profit" (Schumer: Yes). It doesn’t require any provider to participate [uh, how do you think the PO will get providers if the private insurers already have a majority of the providers locked up on those areas where they control most of the market? -- these people aren't thinking; they want the PO to succeed, but don't seem to understand what the PO needs to be successful.]
3:04 Schumer — we will show that a plan with a PO can get 60 votes, and that will take care of Baucus concern that he needs "to get a bill." We will keep fighting for this, and the bill on the President’s desk will include a strong public option.
2:55: Schumer — opening argument for Schumer "level playing field" version of PO, not tied to Medicare rates. Differences with Rockefeller version:
1. Must stand on its own; all payments to providers negotiated from day one.
PO will be independent, self sustaining. There will not be another infusion of public dollars; if it fails it fails [if this is true, it's a stupid idea and should be voted down -- here's why: the private insurers will evade the regulations and tend to attract low-cost patients (younger), which means higher-cost patients (older) will tend to gravitate towards the PO; they PO will become the insurer of last resort, and the government will need to meet their needs. That means their subsidies may need to be be higher. If you think of the PO as a precursor to, or an extension of, Medicare, then it's clear the govt will need to intervene to provide greater support, just as we do today for Medicare.]
2:52: Vote on Rockfeller Public Option tied to Medicare rates (first two years):
NO: Baucus, Conrad, Lincoln, Nelson, Carper, and all Republicans
Final: Ayes = 8
Noes = 15
2:45 Rockefeller closing argument: The public will want the public option (PO) because it makes sense to give them a choice of an entity that doesn’t need to make a profit. People are on the short end of the stick, and the insurers are making all the money. 14,000 / day lose their health insurance; thousands into bankruptcty.
He’s astounded that Republicans would be willing to hand $450 billion to private insurers without offering the public a choice. You need a consumer choice. What’s wrong with giving people a choice? And why not pattern it after a system that people like — Medicare?
This is about people. If there is anything that’s certain, Republican’s insistence on the status quo will increase support for single payer to replace the current system.



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So, let me get this straight. 5 Dems said NO including Bill Nelson?
yeah, so then the Democratic Party and progressives who put self-defeating pragmatism before principles will be the main obstacle to achieving meaningful reform.
Single Payer can still prevail, because it is now much more clear who stands in the way, and how they present themselves.
The (R)’s are the party of “No!” and the (D)’s are the party of “Yes, but” and then piffle away all advantages by sellout and compromise.
Yeah, NO to a public option. It’s a Trojan Horse, according to Orin Hatch.
What’s it going to take to get even with all of these people who are out to screw us?
Mark my words, there will be a public option, although it won’t be related to healthcare. The public will exercise their option to vote these traitors out of office come election time. I am exercising my option as member of the public to donate to their challengers, the progressive DEMs and not to donate to the DNCC or the DLC. I am exercising my option to rid the Democratic Party of these guys even if means loosing the majority for a period of time because they might as well be GOP if they behave like GOP.
As I said on the other thread: It failed on a straight party-line vote!
The Blue Weasels are NOT Dems!
Yeah! Post-partisanship rules!
Ouch.
Exactly. We can either transition into it in a relatively easy fashion via the public option, or we can do it in the aftermath of a very nasty situation.
I’m thinking it might actually be time for seccession: Massachusetts needs to split off and I’ll gladly move to the Democratic Commonwealth of Massachusetts!
Torches and pitchforks?
One has to wonder how many times the Ds (despite Mithras61’s insightful comment) will be defeated by a united front of opposing Rs and lukewarm Blue Dogs before they start getting a little more liberal with the arm twisting.
Lining up behind with us on everything but the war Lieberman was a pretty egregious example of party discipline for folks who would rather vote with their consituents on K Street than those on Main Street.
Schumer’s level playing field plan can’t work in practice. It’s basically the same thing as co-ops.
we may get Nelson on Schumer’s, but that’s still three votes short for passage. As I said on the previous thread, we should force Obama and the Senate Dem leadership to embrace the other bill (the one with a PO) by blocking this in Finance… and that means hitting the phones to Rockefeller and Schumer (and Menendez, Stabenow and Cantwell) in order to give them the confidence to vote No on a PO-less bill. Since we can count on 10 rethugs and possibly one or two conservadems to do the wrong thing anyway, all we need is between 1 and 2 votes to block this, causing it to fail in Finance. It’s time to go all out to FORCE the PO back onto the table by taking this bill off the table. PO or NO, No PO No Referral.
Yep. Democrats are heading for electoral decimation in 2010 and 2012.
Is it worse to have the rethugs set the agenda and do all kinds of evil or is it worse to have democrats set the agenda and fail habitually? *sigh*
OT MSNBC reporting 7.9 earthquake in pacific – American samoa to be hit with tidal wave
Mark my words, there will be hell to pay if the Dems don’t get the public option.
We have a majority in both chambers and the white house. If they don’t get this done, the public will know that the Dems are just as corrupt as the Republicans. The emperor truly will have no clothes.
All the tea in China and all the meaningless government reforms that bust household budgets by not offering competition are not going to get Obama re-elected. He will be a one-termer if he doesn’t get this done right. People will stay home. People like me who convinced others to vote for him, will keep thier mouths shut.
I think if we don’t see some actual change soon we are going to see a third party emerge. There is too much discontent on both sides of the aisle.
Screw you Grassley
I second that.
BAUCUS WAS BAMAS CHOICE
well gee Chuck, if you want to talk about unkept promises – how about the trigger on the doughnut hole ??
Amen
don’t forget, his last Chief of Staff is now WH Deputy Chief of Staff
vultures
It wasn’t just a warning?
Grassley? What does he have to do with anything? There are 13 Democrats on this committee, if they were serious about health care reform they would have voted for the PO. But getting money from the insurance lobby is far more important than making sure Americans have health care.
Grassley will soon be in the major again and will be laughing his a** off at the Democrats who, no matter how big a majority they have, are incapable of governing.
Democrats do not deserve to be in the majority. Time for progressives to form their own political party.
we need a humongous demonstration
For Republicans, competition solves everything. It doesn’t. Competition leads to monopoly and industry consolidation, which got us to where we are today.
You would think they would welcome any plan that brings back competition.
But no, they are more interested in protecting giant monopolies.
I believe that a warning was issued but that there were reports of large swells.
Yes, but those are difficult to carry while typing at the keyboard.
I think this is a major flaw with current state of development. It’s much more difficult to cause visceral fear in someone by attacking with a keyboard and a flashlight. A crowd with torches and pitchforks…that’s different. Though perhaps a couple giant combines out in Nelson-land??
MSNBC website says tsunami reportedly hit the capital
puleazzzzzzzzzzzzzz
they are set for life with$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
the peon/teabaggers,are pathetic shit to them
oh and Fuck Ensign
That’s nothing compared to the “tidal wave” that’s going to hit the continental U.S.. The Democrats aren’t going to know what hit them.
nothing from USGS yet – tv saying actual event may have lasted as long as 3 minutes -
We need some innovation on that front. Seems that left-wing demos get much less attention than right-wing. Some more thought about force multipliers on that front would be helpful.
That and a couple actual crowds of people. Seems most incoming requests from orgs I get are for money. Few have physical activities planned.
How big a majority do they have to have to show some b*lls? This is f*ckery and I don’t understand it at all. If they don’t get this done, they don’t deserve to be in the majority.
It’s important to remember that Congress is not there to serve the interests of the people but the people are here to serve the interests of Congress and their corporatist friends. The citizenry is there for the fleecing and until Americans get off their asses and hit the streets the fleecing will continue unabated.
Earthquake raised to 8.3
live science
!!
oh and screw Bunning
I knew this would come in handy today :D
oh and screw Lincoln
Screw ‘em all. Sideways.
Baucus, I like the PO, but my job is to get a bill, so I’ll vote against it; also, Rome wasn’t built in a day.
F Baucus — Rome wasn’t destroyed in a day either asshole.
It was picked off one corrupt Senator at a time.
Instead of Washington, why not get a huge demonstration right outside the big TV network studios – block traffic, make it difficult to get in and out. See if they can ignore that!
Sen Schmoozer up
All this being said, I really don’t believe that Obama (read Rahm) really wants a PO. This is all kabuki. The Medical Industrial Complex owns too many of the dems and all of the thugs.
It’s just the way it is. We’re supposed to just get over it.
We’ll see.
If Obama really wanted a public option, Obama would really fight for a public option. Having Congress write his all-important reform bills while issuing vague and often contradictory statements of support reveals a man who doesn’t truly give a fuck.
Sen Schmoozer still up
Laments Costs, what a screwup.
What happened to the MORALITY argument?
I haven’t heard a peep of the real issue from any of these fat cat surrogates.
I don’t give a rat’s ass about cost. I just want people to stop dying, homeless in the park across the parking lot from my window.
Shep Smith: Was That Canadian Health Care Story We Just Ran Fair?
oh and Fuck Roberts
Shumer’s bill failed 13 to 10
My live video feed via the internet keeps cutting out.
Who’s got the roll call on Schumer’s amendment?
Baucus, Conrad and Lincoln all voted no
Baucus (D-MT), Conrad (D-ND) and Lincoln (D-AR) vote NO Schumer’s public option.
Sens. Max Baucus (D-MT), Kent Conrad (D-ND), Bill Nelson (D-FL), Tom Carper (D-DE), and Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) vote no on Jello Jay’s Public Option.
All suck #hc09
More people live within 5 miles of me here in L.A. than the populations of Montana, North Dakota, and Arkansas put together. And yet they get to decide if the country gets real health care reform.
this country disgusts me
I have had it for the day. I am going to martini night with my girl friends in Sonoma. (In two days I find out if I still have health insurance.)
f
u
c
k
e
r
y
Neuter the Senate like the House of Lords in GB. It’s antiquated and is an obstacle to meaningful reform. Let the patricians of the Senate put on their toga’s and ramble and babble but take them out of the process of governing the nation.
Oh, but he gives a huge shit about bringing the bacon home to Chicago. Instead of cracking the whip for health insurance reform for all Americans he’s off in beautiful Copenhagen.
I hope the Democrats appreciate this when they lose the Senate in 2010 and see Lynn Cheney emerge as a force.
I have officially resigned from giving a shit any more and will put more effort into local volunteering at soup kitchens and tutoring kids for free where I know I’m at least making a difference in someone’s life.
The new American “Life Tax!” Mandated Health Insurance coverage. The corporate adolescent “nocturnal emission” enabled by law and tax penalty! This is quite disgusting again. Corporate Servitude…. People equated to property for the benefit of corporate profit?
People equated to property for the benefit of corporate profit?
Are these elected Aristocrats in tune with the needs of the republic and its governed? Instead of controlling the behavior of disgusting corporations, elected aristocrats mandate and impose a tax penalty on Americans because of governments failure to protect individual personal rights liberties, instead protecting the rights of corporations to “gut” American lives in the lust for profit. Simply disgusting….
Grassley….. “government is a predator…” Question Sir! What are corporations; “non predatory tax exempt public charities?”
Corporate Servitude……. aka slavery
Yes, Britain neutered their House of Lords. Time for a constitutional convention and get rid of these parasites. How do we do this? In state legislatures?