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Mike Lux says that the White House has "become obsessed with Olympia Snowe on health care, and are willing to do pretty much whatever she demands in order to get her on board." This apparently includes her "triggers":
Senator Snowe is writing language into an amendment that is literally a Catch-22. The legislative language says that a public option will be set up in a state in which health care is not affordable to 95% of the state’s residents, but it defines affordability as after the new tax credits that are written into the bill to make health care affordable. Not only would this be an incredibly weak public option (doing it in one state will mean it can’t get the market power to compete with the big insurers), but it would be a public option that is written by its definition to never be triggered. This is a trigger specifically, intentionally designed to kill the public option.
But Rahm Emanuel has always wanted triggers, has been talking with Snowe about them, and it’s more likely she’s a delivery mechanism to jam in something they already want rather than the architect. And they’re trying to draft the veal pen into covering for them:
Some senior White House staffers are now beginning to try to sell this trigger to progressive groups as the compromise version of a public option, saying the White House doesn’t want to have a floor fight in the Senate, and that they can always fix it in conference committee. That way they can pick up Snowe, satisfy that desperate urge for being officially bipartisan (even though Snowe can’t bring a single other Republican with her), and not have to worry about procedural hassles in the Senate. But by finally winning Snowe over, the White House is risking something far more politically dangerous: an ugly fight within the Democratic Party, further erosion of Obama’s standing with his base, the specter of more primary fights.
Rahm told liberal interest groups in the veal pen to stop running ads against Blue Dogs on health care, and they complied. If you’re a member of a progressive group or union, or a contributor to a think tank or action fund, contact them and let them know that you would like them to release a statement rejecting triggers.
Because Mike is right – this is a transparent attempt to kill the public option, and no progressive organization should be helping them.
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Snowe gets too much out of this deal. Especially press coverage.
Jane, I’m trying to understand why the WH would want to be out there running on this abysmal health care plan after spending all spring saying, we’re keeping our powder dry for health care.
With Rs like Grassley swinging into opposition on individual mandates, Obama and the Ds will be charged with saddling the great middle with what functions as a new tax with almost minimal benefit. With no strong public option, this will be an epic political disaster.
Are you hearing internal rationales for how this bill would be better than no bill? I just don’t think making people buy crap insurance or fining them is a winning strategy, even if you get coverage for pre-existing conditions and guaranteed issue.
I’d at least like to hear that rationale. Is there anything more than “we want the health care lobby dollars”?
IS this a misspell:
“And they’re not trying to draft the veal pen into covering for them: …”
where not should be now. It changes the meaning quite a bit.
Z
[Emphasis Added]
It’s worse than just not a “winning strategy.” Much worse. If you think premiums have been rising fast in recent years, imagine how much further they’re going to climb when all these insurance companies are forced to cover all these patients and procedures that they weren’t covering before.
I can’t see any other possible outcome other than premiums skyrocketing once they’re forced to accept all people and all conditions, and pay for procedures. One of the ways they’ve limited their costs is by denying coverage, denying payment, and denying accessibility.
That’s why this bill WITHOUT a public option, which, if a robust one, would put pressure on them to keep premiums down, is not only not a winning strategy, it is a sure losing one. For patients that is.
And if they fudge by adding some lame public option or “triggers” then it’s not going to make a hill of beans worth of difference, especially initially, when the biggest increases are likely. I believe this is another reason why they’re “phasing” it in in 2013. The rise in premiums required would be impossible to swallow if they had to occur in one year. They’re going to raise premiums two or three times the inflation rate until 2013 to meet the goal.
Of course I could be totally wrong. Been there many times. Doesn’t change my mind though. All I want is for them to kill this bill. Others seem to believe a real PO has a chance, I’m not one of them, but if so, great, would love to see it. In the meantime, just make damn sure THIS bill doesn’t pass, cause it ain’t gonna be purty, IMO.
Jane… could you pls not use the veal pen euphemism?
It honestly derails me from following the blog post cus I think veal pens are so disgusting… and then it’s hard to follow anything else
Sorry…but thanks…
And btw… I just saw on the hill that Steny Hoyer has JUST decided that he needs to reach out across the aisle… so he is “reaching out” to Boustany to bridge the 20% where we don’t agree with each other.
I’d heard this bs being touted before… but to do this NOW when Pelosi is trying to muster the troops is disgusting…
How do these people get in Democratic leadership positions…
oh wait… the best Democracy money can buy.
How can one ugly congresswoman hold so much weight with the White House? I’m just not understanding.
I’ve got a basket to hell going on. I think I need a bigger basket.
[Edited by moderator: This site does not allow the women to be called ”bitch” under any circumstances.]
This is a bit of a puzzle, as the triggers would limit the number of new insureds that would be ‘qualifying’ for insurance. That would cut a great deal from attractiveness of the bill for insurance co’s, to all appearances. Snowe standing as the impetus behind triggers would meet with a backlash from insurance co’s then, as I see it. Am I being a little too intricate with the potential for disaster for her?
Maybe it’s time for the Democratic Party to have it’s civil war once and for all. Enough of the triangulators, compromisers, corporatists and celebrity posers. Time to make the Democratic Party a people’s party again.
Shorter Rahmbo: “The appearance of
victorysuccessprogress is just as good as the real thing.”Even shorter Rahmbo: “Sometimes better!”
We should be fighting for single payer ,the public option is the compromise
Triggers that can’t be pulled is not an option
On your mark. Get set. Go.
Can this group really deliver health care reform? Obama’s team seems to be promoting and fighting it simultaneously.
“My mother, my sister!”
aggravating. and may I say I don’t really like Rahm’s agenda? I just don’t trust the guy….
Again, I state the obvious: Who gives a flying f*ck what any Republican has to say about the bill. One R vote is not worth scrapping the PO.
Maybe Rahm Obama, always being pragmatic, believes the base would rather vote for a weakened, ineffectual poor leader running to the center right with watered down legislation than a Republican. They’re correct, unfortunately. I think FDL, Act Blue,et al approach to for challenging bad actors in Congress up for reelection is the only game in town.
It’s the math 59 + 1 Snowe = 60 = cloture = no filibuster
Then 51 = passage through the Senate
But there are other ways through this math, including reconciliation.
Thanks. I needed your clarity right now. :]
HCAN is an emphatic “NO!” to triggers:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8401
Massachusetts Governor Patrick will appoint a new Senator shortly, and the need for Snowe evaporates, assuming Senator Byrd can hang on.
Reconciliation??? Our abusers would never forgive us!
Thank you. I kind of get it, but all the speculations don’t always pan out. We’ll see.
What’s Byrd’s status??? I thought I heard he had a fall or something?
Gosh, even Lindsey Graham says triggers don’t work.
Slap my face and call me trouble!
Yup It’s time for a purge
These Dems are no different than the Repukes
A politician is a politician
The DINO fall back position, the one that allows a fig leaf of cover, is seeking bipartisanship. That the GOP could have cared less about it for 15 years doesn’t enter into what constitutes the DINOS mind.
He’s ok, he had a small fall and was taken to the hospital for observation, but from what I’ve heard, nothing major.
Well, as someone already suggested, perhaps Snowe is merely the delivery girl for the WH. In that case, the need remains.
Just googled. Nothing on his website. Found this:
“Byrd apparently stood up too fast this morning in his home and fell down,” said Jesse Jacobs, a spokesman for the senator. “To err on the side of caution his caregiver called an ambulance. He was taken to the hospital where he is currently being checked out. At this point in time there is no indication that he will be admitted.”
Let me be clear, I think your analysis is correct. I think anything resembling this bill is a failure. And a public option open to all with no triggers is the only way to get everyone covered *and* reduce costs. Large portions of the higher cost poorer health outcomes situation here in the US is because we’re using multiple for profit companies to provide insurance that then pays for care.
There are too many players and the interests of those players are poorly aligned. As you say, one of the ways that insurers keep costs down is rejecting claims and eliminating costly insureds.
As for adding “expensive” insureds to the risk pool, I think it is the case that adding currently uninsured young and poor to the risk pool (with or without subsidies) would mitigate some of the price increase you predict. I don’t think it will eliminate it.
What I don’t understand is what Rahm and Obama are seeing that makes them think their approach is anything but political suicide. They are acting in a craven fashion, but I don’t think they are stupid or myopic.
It’s apparently obvious to 80% the public that the need for a public option has *already* been triggered. If the insurance industry were predisposed to controlling costs (as they claimed they would do after the Clinton’s efforts) we would not be where we are now. They already had their chance to do it right, and they declined.
My response to the Obama WH regarding giving their corporate donors any kind of window at all for reform is to ask whether anyone else has noticed how the credit card banksters have responded to their window before reforms kick in: screw their cardholders hard and do everything possible to squeeze every last cent out of us before they’re forced to act more responsibly. Does anyone really imagine the insurance companies wouldn’t do the same and worse?
You be Trouble! I’m suspect of every single word coming out of that man’s mouth.
…well, maybe I do think they are myopic.
yeah, but in this case, it’s true and now we know he knows it’s true. aha!
I hadn’t ever caught onto that…great point!
Could be. He might say he doesn’t remember. Just ’cause we have video and the internet doesn’t stop them from lieing. Hope you’re right.
Yep, he’s another one of those folks just like George W. Bush in that it’s real easy to figure out when he’s lying. His lips are moving.
Yeah, let’s just let them pass this and put all our efforts behind an amendment that isn’t going to pass. Great idea.
Just because it is an enormous transfer of wealth that will further empower the insurance industry and keep single payer from passing for a generation shouldn’t deter us.
Maybe the White House has some type of back door plan to get the public option included.
To sign a bill without a public option would be political suicide
oh god, more 12 dimensional chess?
You would think it would be if the wishes of the average voter mattered.
It could all make sense though if you believe some of the stuff you read on these here intertubes about it’s all a con game anyways, and he who controls the voting machines controls the winners.
Not that I give any of that sort of stuff any credence, mind you, I’m just sayin……
Rahm Emanuel’s contact info:
Washington, DC
1319 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
phone: 202-225-4061
fax: 202-225-5603
How many times have I heard The words public option come from Obama’s mouth?
Just can’t see him signing a bill without one.
Do I think he’ll go for triggers?
Not likely ,the public won’t buy the triggers and won’t support the bill.
I just hope BO has some tricks up his sleeve !
Byrd is in the hospital today.
I’m trying very hard to understand, but I can’t see how this bill will benefit anyone. It will not benefit Obama, it will not benefit the Democrats, it can only hurt them. It won’t help Snowe in the long run, the Republicans will reject it in any case, that will probably make them look much more attractive to the citizens, who will freak out when they hear the words taxes and mandates. I see only one group that will rejoice, the corporations, all of them, including Wall Street, naturally the insurance companies will be dancing in the streets for joy. Whom is this going to help? What is the objective?
I was very disappointed when President Obama told those without insurance that they had better buy it, because we are not going to carry them any more. I sent him an email, telling him that on election night those of us who worked so hard to get him elected were hugging and crying tears of joy.
I also told him that if this bill passes in this form there will again be tears – but they will not be tears of joy.
Jane, thank you so much for all your hard work. When I become totally discouraged you are the only ray of light in this darkness.
Methinks that’s his old House address…
A game where only the middle and little people (pawns) get rooked.
I think that’s one of the more crucial points being overlooked in most media discussions – whatever is done now will provide cover for the next decade or more for politicians to state they already did healthcare reform and they’re not going to look at it again until some indefinite point in the future. After this fall it is unlikely to be possible to generate sufficient impetus in Congress for further reforms on this front.
There will be no incremental progress as some have suggested, meaning take what you can get now and try to improve it later. What we get now is it, and should be treated as such. Half a loaf is both bad policy and bad politics.
He’s in the hospital. He fell, at home, and when they took him to the hospital, they found an infection and kept him for treatment. He has been ill a good bit this year, as might be expected for a man of his years. He is 92.
Dems are operating under the assumption that the wishes of private insurers and other special interests are more important than those of the voters. Nothing new there. Even if Dems were not already corporate lapdogs they fear that if they crack down hard enough to impact profits the offended parties will dedicate themselves to getting Republicans elected, like they won’t anyway. Corp tools rule.
They didn’t want a “good” bill in the first place. The deals have been cut. They do NOT want a public option. They want to preserve insurance company profits. i.e., keep the donations rolling in from big business.
Do not pay attention to what they say. Pay attention to what they do, especially Obama.
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is up and ready: “Glenn Beck Mocked Woman’s Miscarriage on the Air”
This is the closest to public option he came in his speech to congress:
That’s not really a public option. If people *can’t get* insurance some other way, then they can go with this plan. In fact, they would *have to* go with this plan, because everyone is mandated to purchase insurance. So, even if he gets this milquetoast element into his “plan”, it wouldn’t be an *option*.
If the Dems can’t unite on something as critical as health reform they are doomed.
I just can’t understand why they don’t use the power they have. They own both chambers of congress they could get anything they want.
Figures the opposition comes from within the party , we just can’t win
Byrd is hospitalized. They found his white count was slightly high, indicating he might have an infections, so they admitted him.
The key is not that Dems own two branches of government but rather who owns them.
“Take what you can get now and incrementally make it better” is a big fat lie. The public option is the compromise. We should be getting single payer. This is bullsh!t and I can’t believe Obama is knee deep in it. Change we can believe in? OMFG. Any word, Jane, on when the HELP committee bill is going to be discussed by these clowns?
Olympia Snowe, the new Chuck Grassley? What the hell is wrong with those idiots in the White House? Do they really think that 1 fucking republican vote on any bill is Bipartisanship?
If so, then they are even dumber than I can imagine. Give it up.
I’m for single payer any way.
Screw the insurance co’s we could set up a single payer system side by side with private insurance
If you want to pay for private insurance you can ,or you get your government, medicare style health care
That would be the real public option
Not a hard concept to follow.
Campaign finance reform
Got to remove the corporate dollars from our elections
Until then good freaken luck !
The idea that Rahm & Co., built triggers into their plan and are using Snowe as a delivery mechanism seems sound. Triggers – various ones could be used, all to make sure the weapon is never fired – would be a delaying action, to be used when Rahm can’t avoid a fight over a public option. It can be cast as a “compromise” needed to enact “reform” legislation in order to get one or two unneeded GOP votes.
It could be sold, sotto voce, to the GOP as a way to keep their beloved insuresters whole, while pretending to Democratic voters that they are getting something of value when they are getting a much more expensive status quo. The greater expense being higher insuresters profits for selling the same snake oil that goes under the name of a health insurance contract to lots more people, with the benefit of a government subsidy.
Like banksters, insuresters broke the system that made them rich and are in the process of having a taxpayer funded government bail them out without having to enact material changes. Worked for Wall Street; their bonuses are back to “normal”.
Let’s work hard to make sure it doesn’t work for Rahm, Bahma and their insuresters. Apart from being horrendous policy, it would bankrupt the Democratic Party and idea of government-backed reform for several election cycles.
Just like the Snowe and others got too much coverage on the Stimulus and painted it like the world would come to an end if they weren’t on board.
What happen?
A watered down bill, along with held up appointments in Congress delayed putting the Stimulus into action and slowed its impact.
They don’t even wanna talk about a 2nd Stimulus, but mark my words another one will be floated as a trial balloon.
If they cave on this, they won’t get anything done…. They have already caved on it, its not Single Payer, just fix what’s wrong and pass it on party lines, who really cares about Bipartisanship? Americans might want that, but honestly they rather have good legislation than bad bills just for the sake of having both sides agree.
It is blatantly obvious that the corporate sponsors of the Baucus bill will allow no trigger that does not come with a trigger lock welded into place.
Since Rahm and Obama are not dumb people, it is reasonable to assume that what they’re pushing is what they want. Why they want something that looks so craptastic to most of us is an open question.
You would think.
I assume they want it because it’s good for them, but not good for us. As the GOP would say in another context, since this is “inevitable”, we’re supposed to lay back and enjoy it, not fight it.
Rahma and Bahma have obviously convinced themselves that Bahma’s rhetorical skills can sell anything, whether a second term, Rahm’s return to the House or to the Senate, and corporate-fare masquerading as health care reform – all without consequence. The great and observant public, as Sherlock Holmes was wont to say, is neither. Here’s hoping that, in this context, blogs can help prove them wrong.
Glad it was edited by the mods. In addition, “ugly” is sexist. Snnowe’s looks have nothing to do with her policy choices. She’s wrong becasue it is bad policy. Calling a woman ugly is just sexism.
Well and succinctly put. Thanks for the clarity.
That wasn’t quite what I was saying. Your choice is probably going to be between bailing out the insurance industry and nothing.
Now there will be some symbolic votes for political cover, but they won’t have any effect on actual policy. The insurance industry will be happy to have as many of them as you want.
So what do you choose? Where are you going to apply your efforts?
A “public option” that is not really an option to 95% of the public is as worthless as a stuffed and mounted motion picture horse. An amendment has been introduced in Congress to make the “Public Option” plan available to anyone. Right now, the “Public Option” is not available to those who already have insurance, so if you don’t like the crappy product that you have, you are stuck, and can’t buy a different product. We need to support the amendment that makes the “public Option” actually available to the public. The definition and parameters of “robust” must be clearly expressed in the bill, otherwise we get just Congressional smoke and mirrors.
It’s an easy choice for me. Put the efforts into getting enough votes to STOP it. In other words, nothing. At least if we get nothing, the issue remains, and at least in theory could be approached again.
If it takes 40 in the House to block it, or 10 in the Senate, whatever. Just put the efforts toward getting people to oppose it. Of course, frame it as “Oppose it without a strong PO” which in reality is going to mean oppose it period, IMO, because I don’t see a strong PO having much of a chance in this climate.
I thought that’s what you’ve been doing. Am I misunderestimating your efforts?
Given the Hobson’s choice you suggest, i.e., the Dems serve us up a shit sandwich, I think it is not only permissible but necessary to let the perfect be the enema of the good.
Which is to say, I’m not eating that. I let my waffly CO Senators know in no uncertain terms that no robust public option = no real reform and their support for anything less = no money from me and my support for primary challengers. Of course, since Udall doesn’t have to worry about re-election for years and the President came out and endorsed our empty suit appointee Michael Bennett right after a more progressive primary challenger announced, I’ve no idea how much they care.
But given the choice between bailing out the insurers and sending the whole effort into crash and burn, I’ll go for the crash and burn.
I actually see nothing wrong with a real trigger on a public option that would give the HIs say 24 months to really clean up their act and if they don’t then the public option-medicare for all-would kick in. Perhaps that would calm down the flat earthers and rethugs who think that capitalism will work for everything. Then they can actually see that HI will not be able to work. With a couple of conditions. 1-no “preexisting conditions” and 2-can not ever drop for any reason. Now what they should also have is what I get as a retired federal employee. An open season every nov where I can change my insurance if I so desire. Now I have had BC/BS for almost 20 years and have never had any problems with them paying the bills. Maybe that is what is needed across the board for everyone. The Federal Employee HI plan.
Or, just pack up and leave. Start a 3rd party. I know that some rethugs are thinking about this as their party was captured by thugs and nuts
can we say 2010″ payback then” mike ross &bluedogs.
You’re assuming the opposition has any rational basis for supporting the insurers or that kicking the can down the road a couple more years will convince anyone of anything that isn’t already obvious right now.
There is no justification at all for a trigger. It can only be used as a means to prevent actual reform.
I wonder if the obsession/planning with Snowe is that if she supports the bill, she will be so demonized and excoriated by the right that she will switch parties.
I’m starting to hear voices, or more precisely, one voice. It keeps repeating confidently: “And this is what we are going to do when I am president of the United States.”
that’s a little ironic, coming from one of the most prominent political ‘yes-buts’ outside of the veal pen.
As by Kip Sullivan, JD, wrote, back on Aug 8:
*that would be the ‘public option.’
my emphases throughout.
This can change by the day, or the hour, or the minute, but, for what’s it worth, here’s Harry Reid, while opening the Senate for business Tuesday morning (Reid routinely updates Senators on his plans for the use of floor time at the convening of the Senate each day):
Reid’s comment about CBO scoring is important, as was made clear in the course of the mark-up later on Tuesday. Thanks to Obama/Reid/Baucus working secretly for months on this legislation, and now their effort to rush it through committee ASAP, the CBO is running flat out – almost 24 hours a day, they said – to try to keep up with the hundreds of amendments that have been offered by the rest of the committee since the Chairman’s Mark was finally publicly revealed a week ago. Which means that for the time being any CBO analysis of interactive changes to the cost of the overall bill that the passage of various amendments will make has to wait.
It’s grossly inconsiderate and unfair of Baucus to pressure the staffers doing the bulk of the work this way, but it is certainly in line with the way he’s treated his fellow committee members. At any rate, if Senators want a final CBO score on the final amended committee product before voting on it (as Snowe was indicating she would yesterday), there will need to be sufficient time for CBO to do that analysis, after all the amendments have been considered, debated, and given a vote (or ruled to be non-germane, as Baucus has already started to do on selective amendments he finds uncomfortable, backed by Party-line lockstep voting).
Why, may I ask, do people believe that health coverage is a right?
Veal pens in this case aren’t a euphemism — they’re a metaphor, and an accurate one.
Urban Dictionary:
The fact that they are disgusting is precisely the point.
It’s worth noting that this is Mike Lux saying this. One of the WH’s poodles.
“…desperate urge…”
Pathological, more like.
And what do you mean “kill the public option.” The public option is stillborn.
Because quality affordable health care is a necessary component of our inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that are enshrined in the Declaration of Independence and the for-profit private insurance companies, whose only proper function is to pay our bills, constitute a cancerous monopoly that, in essence, kills 45,000 people per year by practicing medicine without a license.
Which of the three is it a component of? Life? Liberty? Or the pursuit of happiness?
Isn’t it time to call for Rahm’s replacement? That’s probably the shortest road to a Dean-like public option.
You’re free to do as you please of course, but IMO it would be best to just ignore teh stoopid. Cause teh stoopid is a life choice, one that can’t and won’t be changed by, you know, things like facts and reality and such shit as that.
YMMV
I’m pretty sure you’re not as obtuse as you would like us to believe, and that this question is merely rhetorical and provocative – but – obviously if you have a serious illness and you are poor and without health insurance, well, you’re going to die; if you are too sick to work this would seriously interfere with your liberty, and it is damn hard to be happy when you are in pain. As my sainted father often stated: “It is better to be rich and healthy, than to be sick and poor.”
By the way, what is your motive? Curiosity is killing me.
I never underestimate the obtuseness of individuals. That aside, although I know the conservatives make great sport of distorting it, I find this statement to be pretty clear:
My motive is to try and understand all sides of an issue. As we can all see, there is more and more bickering and disagreement about many issues, both in the political arena and in the general public. We are all Americans yet I cannot remember a time when there was so much animosity being exhibited by ALL. Everbody seems to hate somebody these days. I’m tired of it. As Ghandi said, Be the change you wish to see in the world. I wish we could all start getting along better. The only way to do that is to try to understand all sides of an issue.
Back to my query: So, if health insurance is a right, is it a right for all HUMANS TOO? And, if so, how do we cover all humans then?
Who said health insurance is a right? Health CARE is a right. Health INSURANCE is a scam. Those special interests which oppose universal health care have a vested interest in conflating the two.
The typical medical loss ratio of insurers is less than or equal to the ratio of insured people in the population. Put another way, the money insurance buyers put to non-care activities of insurers, such as profits, exorbitant salaries, overzealous adjusters, counsel to defend suits against overzealous adjustments, stock market casino fees, etc. could be reallocated into Medicare or a reasonable facsimile for the purpose of patient care.