The letter appearing on the current site still urges members of Congress to support President Obama’s plan for health reform – which includes a public option – however the word “must” has been dropped.
This change confirms Obama’s position on the public option: he wants it, but is willing to drop it to pass legislation.
I’ve heard that they have installed some software that counts how quickly the OFA list is depleting due to the public plan. This should really goose things.
That bold new campaign to tell everyone how bad the insurance companies are will probably still put it over the top. Now that they’ve been tasked with writing the bill and all.
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As a commenter at TPM pointed out, it still contains the line
No?
Jane,
I think you and TFA, may be getting a bit paranoid. The President’s current plan, cited by TFA includes the following :
Emphasis added.
Unless you can offer something that isn’t there, I don’t see this as a major change.
Then again, even a paranoid mayhave someone plotting against her.
Drat! Too much editing, so Allan beat me to the punch!
Just like Obama and Wilson.
NO DONATIONS UNTIL THE BILL IS PASSED! IF THERE’S NO PUBLIC OPTION WITHOUT TRIGGERS, THERE WILL BE NO VOTES FOR THE DEMS FROM LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES. WE’LL JUST STAY HOME! I KNOW SOME WON’T BUT MANY OF US WILL. I’VE SEEN THAT EVERYWHERE ON THE BLOGS AND THAT INCLUDES OBAMA! WE CAN JUST GET A EARLY START ON FINDING HIS REPLACEMENT TOO! I’M JUST NOT GOING TO GIVE UP UNTIL IT’S OFFICIALLY GONE FROM THE PLAN!
Allan and Cobernicus,
Dropping “must” is a big concession. There is nothing paranoid about it. If OFA is open to alternatives by dropping the “must” on public option, you know what that means…? OFA will use its advocacy to support co-ops coming out of conference because “failure is not an option”.
I agree with you and I am fumed big time, but please don’t yell it’s hard on the eyes.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Please respond to the claim above that a “public option” that is designed simply for the “uninsured” or the poor meets the definition of public option.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION BUT CHOOSE YOUR TARGETS CAREFULLY!!
Oh. My. God.
Is it really that hard to understand that what the President said was, you know, factually THE TRUTH, and what the Rethugs, and Joe Wilson said, was, you know, factually A LIE.
Meh, facts, schmacts. Who needs facts when you can gin up whole .00001% of the population into a complete frenzy with a bunch of lies and bullshit. Great stuff too when the MSM adds to that .00001% of the population to make it seem as though it’s, you know, a MAJORITY of MURICANS.
Speaking of which, anybody catch The Ed Show when he showed Glenn Beck lying his ass off about the “count” at the rally on the 12th??? Glenn Beck said something like “Well this university looked at the photos, oh I forget which university, and said it was 1.7 million.” So, you know, the librul media is lying cause some “unnamed university” says so.
Goddammed. He can’t fucking lie better than that? He could’ve at least made up some bullshit university. Those watching would’ve believed it. I’m sure they did anyway without naming one, but damn, I thought he was supposed to be better than that.
Citizen roxsteady:
Right on and Obama knows that he not only needs a bill but he needs a bill that works…that’s why I’m convinced that he’s NOT gunna dump the “public option” for coops or anything else that will derail the economy and make him a one term president…he has the majorities and the overwhelming support of the public so if he doesn’t get this done he deserves to be a one term president.
Oh, sorry for the lenght on off topic stuff. My bad.
On topic, the PO is dead. We all know it. Kill this thing, and start over with single payer, or kill it and run the entire 2010 campaign on single payer. Like the Rethugs ran the 94 one on the “Contract on America”. No doubts will be left then.
Any kind of meaningful PO is just not going to pass, so our only hope is to kill it. If a bullshit bill passes, then we can kiss meaningful reform goodbye for another 10-15 years. Or more. Kill it, block it, filibuster kill, burn it, just stop the damned thing. You think insurance premiums are going up now, wait until they’re mandated to cover things they don’t cover now, like pre-existing conditions, etc. etc. etc.
Whoops, there I go with the length again. Dammit.
IMHO, a public option that isn’t open to anyone who chooses to subscribe is a weak option at best and does not meet the definition of “a strong public option” as required by the Progressives’ pledges.
The public option must be available to all or it doesn’t offer significant competition to the insurance industry vultures.
That’s the point, those watching don’t need any specifics. They will believe whatever comes out of Becks mouth.
I am not at all convinced that Obama & Co understand that a bill with no public option will be an unmitigated political disaster.
I’ve obviously been away from D.C. for too long. What does ‘OFA’ stand for? Linguistically, that is.
Ah, the legendary “Contract on America”. How many signers are still in Office? There was a term limits part of that contract. While there’s no legal requirement, there’s nothing to prevent the signers from self-limiting their terms. It would be great to ask those signers still in office, why they are still in office.
Obama for America? Ah, got it. Organizing for America.
It’s a good thing I don’t give a damn about the Democrats any more, because they are going to lose soooooo badly. Jesus. And all they had to do was open up Medicare for all.
BTW, some of you are radically missing the point above: a public option won’t lower health care cost unless EVERYONE can join it, not just those who can’t currently afford it. Big oversight there. What our own Democratic corporate whores are proposing is no goddamn change at all for the insurance industry except using our tax dollars to pay for CEO bonuses.
At this point, I’m rooting for the Republicans to kill this abomination.
Jane,
Do progressives have any kind of write up on health care that could be expanded to become a frame work of a health care reform bill?
How did we get to the point where some think we must take any deal at all or we lose? If we can’t get 60 votes, we can sure get 51. That’s all we need. Americans will never give up the public option once they have it. Medicare is so popular Republicans have had to start pretending they are its defenders. If Republicans thought we were going to do this one way or the other, they might choose to be reasonable. After all, they have gotten some major concessions. If their lobbyists thought they could lose those, maybe they would reconsider.
Methinks your giving the big guy a lot more credit than he seems to deserve these days.
I don’t think that obama cares about political disasters. If he did care, he would have worked harder on doing the right thing in so many ways instead of giving the w admin a continuation. obama’s weak leadership on the various important questions, health care insurance being the one currently under consideration, will be spun to show how he tried but the “votes weren’t there,” and the big insurers will know that he can be counted on to do their bidding. obama and rahm believe that those that voted for obama will come back in 2012 no matter what and his upholding of the status quo (at best) or making the situation even worse for the American middle class and below (economically speaking) will keep him in good stead with the big insurers, pharma, financials, etc. He feels that he will then have the best of both worlds: lots of votes and lots of money.
Even if this were won:
This is not a PO open to all takers, indeed it may not (probably won’t) be one open to all unisured. The debate inches further right.
To go with reconciliation some components of the bill would have to be split off and voted on under standard rules.
Frankly it is long past time for the left to say Bye-Bye to OFA. Once they got to DC, they sold out.
As for me, when they pass Baucus’ sellout bill and call it reform, I’m done giving to Democrats. No money, no time, no phone calls, no nothing.
For some reason Obama thinks that the key to success is in listening to the advice of the Clintonites like Emmanuel and Podesta. These losers are afraid of their own shadows, and won’t fight for the people who elected him. They think that 1994 will replay, and they will lose if they pass strong legislation. 1994 will repeat if they don’t. Alienate the base and you lose. We didn’t vote to leave the Republicans in charge, start bloody acting like you won.
Sorry Mr. President, this won’t cut it. If you are going to act like the bush/cheney regime, no one is going to support you. Now that you have lied to us about almost everything, I guess there is no reason to support anything you do. You are not working for us any longer, and you are apparently a serial liar.
You asked us to help you. It is time you show us that we have a reason to support you after all the outright lies you have told us about what you would do. Is there anything you haven’t caved in on yet?
Yep.
He feels that he will then have the best of both worlds: lots of votes and lots of money.
Yeah, well maybe the blood money but not the votes. Or campaign workers. ;)
The restriction of “can’t find affordable health care”, or other limitations can be very hard to prove. For example, the self-employed, with very irregular income (such as mine) can be quite poor for periods of time, then have enough in the bank to “afford” health care (but instead they pay off debt), then again be unable to “afford… health care”. What will the hurdles be to prove this? I think $8,400 per year is a lot (what my wife and I pay for premiums), and add $1,750 each for our deductible, and add drug prescriptions and other non-covered items, and a year can easily cost $12,000 and up. How much does a couple have to bring home after taxes for $12,000 each year to be “affordable”? Just asking…
As important as a real public option is now, once the insurance companies have to eat or attempt to pass along the cost of insuring pre-exisiting conditions, the case for the public option will become much dearer. Let Obama have his Antietam now and preserve the majorities in 2010.
Hence the word public. If it’s not available to everyone, it’s not public.
Don’t allow these Dems to redefine words, like Rove did, and get away with it.
Apparently that’s a Change Obama wants us to believe in. ‘Cause he sez so.
The one where he caves to Crazy Max Baucus, the only Senator who negotiates with himself on behalf of the Insurance companies and the .0001% of Americans who can’t spell, read or write but who can shout, scream and yell.
This calls to mind the famous Apple ad where the shot putter crashes the IBM Big Brother image and the Hillary Clinton parody last year. Would just love to see a Beck version. His audience looks just like the ad’s robotic stooges (only dressed in ‘warm up suits’ and snacking on junk food without cease). Same vacant eyes. Must…Teabag…Now.
Interesting.
And the insurance companies are not realizing that now because?
Are you kidding me? This bill doesn’t even go into effect until 2013. And, once you have further entrenched the insurers, it’s harder to get them out of the game. MA is a case study. We had a significant SP movement. Romney Care passed. Romney Care is failing. Has that pushed toward SP? hell no. All the rage is global payments.
I have noticed that the “public option” was surrounded by a firewall to insure it is not an option to employer based health insurance. This was done to silence the critics who otherwise would have decried a government takeover of healthcare. How’s that working for you?
I’m not getting any of this. Here’s a page which has the word must in it, multiple times. Exactly, what is this all about, actually? It’s just a propaganda site. I mean, really!
Not sure I understand your question, but I would surmise that the insurance companies definitely plan to pass along the “increased costs” of insuring pre-existing conditions to the policy holders.
That’s the real question to ask. Not even the bill out of Congress allows anyone access to the public option.
Another important question: Reducing costs is one of Obama’s core principles. What the hell does that mean? Reducing costs is not tantamount to affordability. I mean, big pharma is offering as a “concession” a small reduction in projected price increases over a millennium. Where’s the affordability in that?
No I am not kidding you. From the start in January 09 it has been crystal clear that the Senate did not have the votes for a public option due to the residual wallstreet Clinton democrats posing as “moderates”. Time not to fight and lose. Time to keep fighting, pass something and plan ahead for how to pass a real public option. Hence my reference to Antietam.
I do not understand the Mass healthcare and I live there. But I do not undertand how Mass elected Romney either. So I generally discount Mass.
Read the text. If someone has an employer policy that does not offer “real choice” (TBD), he or she could get in on the public option.
Obama may yet punt on the public option. I am just saying it is a bit early to abandon ship.
The majorities are not threatened nearly as much by strong HC reform as they are by the sellout bill now coming out of the Senate and the WH. They’ve caved to the large banks that “own the place”, and are now caving to the health insurance and drug industries to secure their silence and money. What good is their silence and money if the resulting majority cannot enact serious reform. I see only two scenarios:
1. Upon inspection, it becomes indisputable no Republicans will support even the sellout bill from Baucus, and that his bill does not reduce costs enough to meet Obama’s “not one thin dime” criteria. At which point, the WH gets behind an all Democratic plan (via amendments?) with a very strong public option to carve some real savings from the health insurance industry’s profits and salaries that does meet the “dime” criteria. Short of this (which is I’m sure fantasy), …
2. We begin looking for Obama’s 2012 replacement ASAP (Dean? if not, ?) and work earnestly targeting the blue dogs with strong primary challenges. There are plenty of Americans from across the entire political spectrum who cannot stomach the transfer of taxpayer wealth to the banking and health insurance industry, even some on the right who are not racist lunatics puppeteered by FOX.
thanks for the heads up Jane.
have been monitoring AFL-CIO events in Pittsburgh this week. no weasel words so far – except of course those of Secretary Solis
That’s hokum. You’re stuck with the employer plan if you have one.
Well, public can mean run by the government as easily as available to everyone. The meanings aren’t even mutually exclusive.
That’s the problem with calling it a “public option” instead of (as George Lakoff proposed) “The American Plan” and then DEFINING it instead of allowing your opposition to define it for you.
WE know what we mean (at least, generally we do), but the majority of Americans are completely confused at this point by what “public option” means and the corporatists are using that against us.
—Side Point—
We are also handling this as a laundry list policy debate instead of using language that appeals and gets people behind it. Most people CAN’T reach the conclusions we need them to reach from “just the facts” and we (Progressives) are loosing the battles we fight because we don’t make our language work for us. We don’t have a system in place that establishes our frames, and we don’t activate those frames “on demand” as the Republicans do. We will continue to fail until we get that system built and can begin to leverage that work.
—End Side Point—
I suspect that for our argument to succeed, we must start calling it “a public insurance option available to anyone who wants to join” as this gives it a more solid substance and we can then define the features of the plan. “Public option” is nice & catchy, but most people aren’t policy wonks and don’t want to be. I’ve actually had people ask me “What does ‘public option’ mean? Who would pay for it? Would it use tax money at all?” within the last week, and the people asking this are neither complete idiots nor unaware of the political turmoil, they simply don’t understand the terms of the debate!
A public option isn’t an option if its availability is limited to the uninsured who can’t afford it, unless the government purchases it, and the plan has high deductibles and co-pays.
We need reform to reduce costs and the private for-profit insurance companies are primarily responsible for runaway costs. The only solution that makes sense is to eliminate them.
No amount of tinkering with legislative proposals to protect the insurance companies and their profits can possibly solve the problem.
End of story.
Yesterday Sen. Reid said this:
“We’ve always had a place at the table for Republicans. There’s one there today. We hope it bears fruit,” he said. “If we can’t get the 60 votes we need, then we’ll have no alternative but to use reconciliation. I strongly favor a bipartisan approach.”
None of this has to do with Clinton. What an utterly foolish thing to argue. The Democrats have given far more leeway to Obama’s proposals then Clinton got and it was conservative Democrats that called his bill DOA when it still had 49% approval, and it was to the left of what is currently on the table. Further, Bill Clinton spent his second term trying to expand Medicare as an option for 55-64 year olds. Call me when Obama does that. This reliance on blaming Obama’s lack of leadership in public insurance on Clinton or so-called “Clinton Democrats” is utterly devoid of credibility.
“About Harry Reid,” from his own web site:
Tells you everything you need to know. Sucking up to Republicans is his forte.
And he’s in real trouble in Nevada re-election because he is spineless.
Lemme see now, this week I’ve heard Obama
a) wants to extend portions of the Patriot Act dealing with electronic surveillance
b) wants to deny habeas corpus to prisoners at Bagram Air Base
c) wants a health care reform bill even if it’s only a blank sheet of paper or a blank check to the health insurance industry
d) wants to uplift the middle class on the backs of the working class
Yeppurs, change I can believe in. I believe I’ll get the revolution machine cranked up.
Any specific current document may or may not include a Public Option reference but it doesn’t really matter. The definition of the Public Option is continually modified, restricted and means something different to everyone that refers to it.
If there is one single proposition that is truly a sign of our times it is that politicians, and other more reputable individuals such as used car salesmen and drug dealers, provide us with the chance to “sign” interactive petitions that they then change the contents of after the fact. Kind of like the behind the scenes usurious changes to existing credit-card debt, which coincidentally was also brought to us by most of the current members of the political class, Republican and Democrat alike.
On the subject of health-care “reform” the fanfare around the industry/Baucus being released suggests that even the less than honorable senator of a state with a population that justifies one congressman has more ability to control events than Obama. Requests to “Stand with the President” and sandcastle-like core principles not withstanding. Typos are often hard to catch. Probably meant “Sand with the President” along. Sand; sandbag; etc.
Say hold on there OFGuy and others who are despairing. Nobody has despaired over these recent months more than me BUT, this AM I heard Gavin Newsom on MSNBC present a very strong policy-driven discussion about healthcare in the Bay Area. He said all the right things including a few that the MSM routinely sidesteps. He hammered away at the fact that if you get rid of the insurance cartel there are boatloads of money available and if you put a lot into prevention than it becomes a “force-multiplier” (my term) for cost savings. Bill Clinton is going to be working w/ Gavin on spreading the word on this. Plus Tom Harkin is saying there IS going to be Public Option. A whole lot more voices are starting to talk about single-payer again. I know it’s easy to get discouraged but now is not the time to go squishy. EVERYODY’s pissed about this Baucus debacle – that can be a good thing. The Progressive caucus might be feeling its oats – WE HOPE! And where the hell is Oprah? To the phones once more and write back and tell us what you found out. Somebody call OPRAH.
I’m shocked, shocked that no Republicans are supporting the Baucus bill. Shocked, I say.
Obama continues to operate as a centrist, evidently under the assumption that he can maintain some voters from the center right who like his constant compromising. This will never result in a similar flexibility amongst Republicans to compromise–they don’t care about truth or policy or the nation or even ideology when their backs are to the wall–they live to regain power.
He clearly is counting on retaining the Independents in the middle who voted for him, while also assuming (taking for granted) the left will vote for him again (because who else are they going to vote for?). The only way this dynamic will ever change is if there is a real mass of voters supporting candidates to the left of Obama (including a 2012 presidential challenger) that credibly threatens to not only steal leftist voters, but Independents in the middle as well.
This is going to be tough–the independents in the middle do not read blogs all day, or even follow the news hardly at all except when it hits them hard enough to threaten their daily work routine and livelihood. Because the left has respect for the truth and does not create infotainment events similar to those on the right, and because the MSM in their economic death spiral will hold on to their one claim to fame–incestuous influence in Washington–until their ultimate demise, I see the odds for our cause as very long. Obama could have been the one–the fact that he’s betrayed his base and his principles in his pragmatism is causing me grief and disappointment beyond my words to express.
Jell-O Jay grows a spine, says he won’t vote for MaxTax Bill:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..aucus-Bill
By the way, the MaxTax Beta, aka RomneyCare, is falling apart in Massachusetts even as we speak: http://www.boston.com/business….._in_rates/
Frankly it is long past time for the left to say Bye-Bye to OFA. Once they got to DC, they sold out.
they never had to sell out, they were a DNC contrivance, ripping off the enormously succesful DFA organization of howard dean. I can trace the bad intent back to the point Dean was told to leave his chairmanship of the DNC, and the hiring of a corporate toady like rahm as cos.
Harry Reid is also the guy who designed the strategy to end Bush’s game of recess appointments and managed to kill Yucca Mountain (a GOP baby) almost single handed. He also managed to get what was missing from the house version of the stimulus package in the senate bill (while leaving out some stuff the house already had covered) and delivered almost exactly what Obama asked for when the bills were reconciled (although Obama did ask for less than Krugman et. al. lobbied for).
IMO, he’s an impressive parliamentarian in an age where the art is disparaged by people who want to see nothing but fists and elbows. He uses arcane rules, not brickbats. Our biggest problem is that he’s beholden to Obama now because of the aforementioned Yucca Mountain win (one of Obama’s first moves was to put the nails in that coffin). Every possible tool is at the democrats’ disposal. This would not be the case if Reid were not good at his position. The big question here is if Obama will pull the trigger. Reid isn’t going to buck Obama.
And also, a poll showing Danny Tarkanian ahead of Reid *should* speak for itself to anyone who ever lived in Southern Nevada. He’s kind of a joke with zero experience who can’t even win statewide office, and he’s polling better than the legitimate GOP candidate. I am very skeptical that Reid is in serious trouble here (betting a dollar he’ll attack some long-standing water dispute issues next session). Could be wrong, but I just don’t see it.
Oprah specifically said she’s sitting this out.
But I think you are right. August is done, the teabag brigade peaked and I suspect they have little left – the shock value of their visage is played out and now people are left to ponder the silliness of their assertions. This is the home stretch and the democrats kept their powder dry. Let’s see if they can seize this cycle and pull it out.
Keep pushing – but don’t yet despair.
So how does one remove their name from the OFA roles? I checked my account on the OFA website and couldn’t find a “delete this account” button. I looked for a way to communicate with OFA, but the only half-way sensible option takes me to the whitehouse comment form.
I posted this rant there:
If you do not know what is “currently on the table” so be it but the Clintons never gave a damn about healthcare reform despite all the posturing, present and past. As far as Clintons second term, gimme a break. All that really happened of any substance was that our dependence on foreign fossil fuels grew by 40%, no development of electric batteries, banks were deregulated to act as investment banks (circa 1999) and the age qualification for social security benefits was reconfigured. So the Clintons are not progressives and never acted to seriously advance any cause, except that of Wall Street.
Kill this bill and start over !!!
The best thing that can now come out of this vote would be for the progressive caucus to offer a wake up call to the democratic party and flex some political muscle !
In other countries with more than 2 parties there emerges the idea of power sharing . It’s how the Greens became a force for instance in German politics .
The progressives could easily carve out a place within the democratic party on this bill and begin a similar arrangement with the centrist democrats . It would also go a long way toward increasing the threat to entrenched corporate interests of a viable third party in the future .
YES!
Kill it, and start over.
And make it a public statement. “We tried to work with the Republicans. We tried everything we knew to try in terms of compromise and still they just said ‘NO’. Therefore, we’re going to start over and work towards what Democrats want, and that’s Single Payer.”
Start there, work toward there, get some damned ad money from somewhere and advertise for it, and if the momentum starts to turn, the Blue Dogs (and probably a few Republicans) will come running BEGGING for a compromise, such as a strong, strong Public Option.
Oprah’s sitting this out? Well . . . . that’s unacceptable. Hey Jane. You’re a big shot movie producer. Can’t your people call Oprah’s people (or however you Hollywood folks do things) and get her to mention FDL on the show? Or have Jane on as a cancer survivor. Or have Oprah on FDL for a live chat. Believe me, what this movement needs is housewives. Networking housewives and angry librarians. With those two you can’t lose. kgb999 – you write well.
Good night and good luck