As Raul Grijalva begins his whip count today of the progressive block to find out where they stand on their public option commitment, Chris Bowers writes:
[T]here are good reasons to doubt the strength of the Progressive Block right now. The White House seems to be doubting it too, given that last week they never followed up on a meeting with the Progressive Block and instead scheduled a meeting with Senate Conservadems. In order to resuscitate the effort, the Progressive Caucus whip count needs to produce at least 39 House Democrats who are willing to sign a letter to President Obama saying they will vote against health care legislation without a public option. If they pull it off, their position within the overall health care debate, negotiations, and media coverage should increase. Failure to do so will give them little leverage to make sure that a public option is in the final conference report for the health care bill later this year.
I’m going to quibble a bit with Chris. Yes it will take at least that number of Democrats to stop any bill from passing, but I don’t think the Progressives need to have that many to show strength.
If the White House and House leadership want to pass a bill without a public plan, the problem they have is not getting the number of progressive "no" votes down to 39 in order to still achieve a 218 majority. It’s that they have to get it down to 10 or 12. Because I don’t care what’s in this bill, once they get it down to 28 or so, they have to get a ConservaDem or vulnerable freshman to vote "yes" who thinks they will lose their seat if they do it, and at a certain point that triggers a rebellion. At least that’s the general perception (and once you add the freshman panic factor, they think it starts a whole lot sooner, like 60). And there are ConservaDems like Gene Taylor and John Adler who have already stated that they won’t vote for a health care bill, period.
The teabaggers aren’t strong on nuance and won’t care whether there’s a public plan or not. The anti-insurance industry campaign the White House wouldn’t let anyone run last summer because they didn’t want to drive AHIP from the bargaining table is now okay because they are desperate to get "permission to buy" in these districts — even Republicans hate insurance companies. I know Blue Dogs who have openly wondered why such a populist campaign wasn’t run in their districts to give them cover from the start.
I can conservatively count 16 votes I feel good about. And even at that number they have real power.
Chris, Mike Lux and Anthony Weiner are all right about one thing though: if Progressives cave now, no one will ever take them seriously again. If the 60 members who signed a letter saying they "simply cannot vote for such a proposal" that does not have a public option don’t abide by that promise, they are rendering their entire caucus powerless in every battle to come.
We’ve got Mike Stark up on the Hill asking members if they plan to stick by their promise, and we’ve got people reporting what they hear when they call offices.
Call these members and let them know — they gave their word, and we trust them to keep it. We want them to sign their name once again to Rep. Grijalva’s whip effort.





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You make it so easy. Thanks. Calling
Jane the aide at Voinovich’s office told me voinovich is about to speak on the Senate floor about health care. going over to C-span to look
Senator Voinovich
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN2_wm.aspx
Where was Voinovich the last eight years having to do with spending?
this man needs to look at the profit margins of the Insurance companies
he needs to visit some of the nursing homes in Ohio
I’m starting to think that if Voinovich keeps contradicting himself about spending and being concerned about the deficit the next Republican running for his seat will be even easier to beat
Uh oh Voinovich just said (live) that
“if we dealt with the fiscal problem it would be easier to deal with health care” Where was he the last eight years?
then voinovich went onto say ‘we can’t afford the health care system we have now”
Oh boy is he one of the folks saying “no government health care program. Cut Medicare and Medicaid Now?”
Listen to Voinovich..oy vey
Going to be writting to Sen. Jeanne Shaheen who is bailing on the public option.
Media story is that 15 blue dogs (can we call them yellow dogs or pink dogs?) can kill anything – no word on why 80 – 100 progressive/liberals do not matter (I suspect because its all a big lie).
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (NH)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..86082.html
9/12 Tea Party Photo: False Image Spread By Anti-Reform Activists
Tea Party protesters trying to tout the size of their march on Washington last weekend have been passing around a photo of a packed National Mall. But the picture is years old.
Politifact asked Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, if the rally was big enough to fill that space. Piringer said no — and moreover, the picture can’t be from 2009.
They should have used the Obama innauguration.
Seems like the lesson from DC and the media is (I hope this is not the take home:
- lie
- yell
- wave guns
- Democracy not needed
The fifteen Conservadems (and Lieberman) that Obama had over to the White House on Friday sure have started bailing on Public Option. It’s as if he gave them permisssion, then talked up Public Option big-time in Minnesota.
I wish I understood the WH strategy. But since I don’t, I’ll just call ‘critters.
Please check out this video and pass it on, it is a very well done video by NewLeftMedia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&hd=1
the deplorable washington post drawing corporate friendly conclusions from their health care poll and promoting another sell-out to corporate interests:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…
It’s what they do, they are the post …
“But after a summer of angry debate and protests, opposition to the effort has eased somewhat, and there appears to be potential for further softening among critics if Congress abandons the idea of a government-sponsored health insurance option, a proposal that has become a flash point in the debate. The gap in passion, which had shown greater intensity among opponents of the plan, has also begun to close, with supporters increasingly energized and more now seeing reform as possible without people being forced to give up their current coverage.”
THE POST DOES NOT SAY IT, BUT CLEVERLY IMPLIES IMO THAT THE PUBLIC OPTION FORCES PEOPLE TO GIVE UP THEIR CURRENT COVERAGE.
“But it is the public option that has become the major point of contention, with support for the government creation of an insurance plan that would compete with private insurers stabilizing in the survey after dipping last month. Now, 55 percent say they like the idea, but the notion continues to attract intense objection: If that single provision were removed, opposition to the overall package drops by six percentage points, according to the poll.
Without the public option, 50 percent back the rest of the proposed changes; a still sizable 42 percent are opposed. Independents divide 45-45 on a package without the government-sponsored insurance option, while they are largely negative on the entire set of proposals (40 percent support and 52 percent oppose). Republican opposition also fades 20 points under this scenario.”
SO, OPPOSITION DROPS BY 6%, BUT SUPPORT ALSO DROPS BY 5% IF THE PUBLIC OPTION IS REMOVED (FROM 55% TO 50%). THAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE A VIRTUAL WASH, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE MARGIN OF ERROR IN POLLING, BUT THE DEPLORABLE POST CONCLUDES THAT THIS IS A MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BECOZ IT IS THE DIRECTION THEIR CORPORATE PALS FAVOR.
NOTHING LIKE TWISTING THE STATS TOWARDS YOUR AGENDA AND PROMOTING THE NONSENSE THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A MAJORITY YOU SHOULD STILL CATER TO THE MINORITY … BUT THE DEPLORABLE POST PROMOTES THAT ONLY WHEN THE MINORITY SHARES THE INTERESTS OF THEIR CORPORATE SOCIAL PALS.
Z
I didn’t see Wiener or Kucinich as part of the 16 solid votes – can someone tell me why we cannot count on those two?
if Zack Space continues to be part of the team to pull down the public option. Space will be sent packing in the 18th district next fall.
Can we please march to DC and other major capitols soon? I think the blog heads, unions, and like minded Dem pol machine leaders should be able to kick this off. Gotta pick the right time… perhaps Halloween or Thanksgiving, or perhaps go hard core and do New Years Day.
I think more than a millon people should be possible if state capitols are included:
- DC
- CA
- Boston
- NYC
- NC
- FL
- Iowa
- AZ
- Austin
- ?
Up next is “please regulate yourself” (god I hope not, and there was no applause), and war escalation.
So now Democracy is limited to voting for the Dems so they give us slow death or Repubs for a quick death…sorry but slow death sucks.
I tend to “hope” things will get done, but….
Is there any whipping going on the bluedog side? And data on how many are absolutely opposed right now, regardless of what happens?
Olympia yesterday, in response to whether a PO trigger is on the table as far as she’s concerned, as part of an acceptable “bi-partisan” solution: “And it won’t be. We’ll be using the co-op as an option at this point, as the means for injecting competition in the process.”
So.. she took the triggers off the table in exchange for what she concerns a better idea: BC/BS-run co-ops ;-P
However we plan to get this done, it should be completely clear that it has to get done without this particular rethug.
The Obama strategy is to appear as though he’s in favor of a public option when he’s really not. When you add up all the conditions and prevarications in his speech the other night, what you realize is that he’s in favor of a public option that won’t actually compete with private insurance, and he’s not willing to make sure even that paltry plan happens.
He needs to know that’s not acceptable.
While we’re on the subject of lists, I notice that Jim McDermott (WA-07) is on this list, but not on a more recent version. Was he dropped from consideration? If so, then why?
bzboi @ 9
Watched it and concluded that a lot of their ire is not dissimilar from that on the left!
and my favorite venal politician quote from the Sunday babble:
Mary Landrieu (D-Insurance): “I can support potentially a fallback [trigger], but only if the private sector is allowed and given a great opportunity to get this right. I believe they can.”
…so she wants to give the private sector “a great opportunity”… There you have it.. Senator Landrieu, rated the most corrupt Democratic Senator by CREW.
OT:
John Krakauer has a new book on the life and death (execution) of Pat Tillman.
Oh, I’ll read that. Loved Into Thin Air.
Just called & thank congress man Grijalva.Encourage him to keep fighting for the PO folks.
Grijalva ph:(202) 225-2435
I think the Public Option needs to be tied to the personal mandate. If the PO comes out then so should the mandate. And that view is non-negotiable.
Jane, i called chaka fattah and got the typical “he supports a public option”, but no indication as to whether triggers are OK or not.
Timing is everything, and Obama obviously feels now is the time to push the public option, but I see it’ll also be the birth of a new Repub/BigMedia talking point:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..ws-sunday/
It’ll be everywhere soon.
Any reform that has no-denial will need the universal mandate by definition (or the system will pretty much instantly fail, from an economics perspective). Which means what we’re really saying is, no PO, no bill. Which I’m fine with.
Sorry OT:
Viruses
by digby
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
This story reports on an extraordinary 2004 article by a Harvard lecturer and former Chief of Neuropsychiatry at Guantanamo Bay, which made the shocking claim that “hard-core zealots” had “brains that are structurally and functionally different from us.” Furthermore, the article stated, 100,000 “zealots” within the Muslim body politic would have to be eliminated, the way “malignant [cancer] cells” are removed from a healthy body.
…
I’m sure you can hear the obvious echoes in that passage. Valtin spells it out:
Anderson’s scientific racism calls to mind the similarly medicalized racism of the Nazis, as psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton described it over 20 years ago. In his book, The Nazi Doctors, Lifton quoted Nazi doctor Fritz Klein, in words not too different from Harvard lecturer and Massachusetts General Hospital Senior Psychiatrist Anderson:
Of course I am a doctor and I want to preserve life. And out of respect for human life, I would remove a gangrenous appendix from a diseased body. The Jew is the gangrenous appendix in the body of mankind.
There’s so much of this stuff out there that we are forced to just accept because we aren’t allowed to look in the rear view mirror. It’s there in the record, but it’s going unaddressed.
—
Maybe he will get a job on the Obama economic team. There is no shame left.
she’s awful. when she’s up for re-election, someone has to run an ad with the audio of her saying Bush did a great job in the aftermath of katrina.
or this time article where she brags about voting with bush 745 of the time.
i don’t care how she’s excised, but that old mule has to go.
Matthews:
picture of a teabagger with sign:
“Bury Obamacare with Kennedy”
I think 1M+ in DC and 1M+ in other captiols might change the conversation.
The teabaggers are getting hybrid milage out of a few hundred people or a 70K person thing.
she’s odious, with a permanent “for sale” sign affixed to her back. She’s 55 and she’s been a profesional politician since she was 23. Her constituents need to retire her.
Of course, she’s not the MOST odious. That distinction still belongs to our friend, Joe Lieberman (I-Himself), quoted today: “If you create a government health insurance plan, the government is inevitably going to be spending money on it, and that means taxpayers will be spending more money on it,” he said. “And I just don’t think at this stage in our history, with all of the terrible national debt that we’re facing, that we should be adding another government agency to do this kind of thing.”
He’s not even bothering to form a coherent position on the bill, apparently.
This is either a wash out or the defining moment in a new era of American politics ! A petition for your signing pleasure
Here is the full poll:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..9091400007
It’s even worse than I thought. I don’t even know what the basis is for their claim that “If that single provision (government sponsored public option) were removed, opposition to the overall package drops by six percentage points, according to the poll”. From questions 22 and 23, the opposition appears to stay the same while he support drops w/o the public option.
22. Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?
——– Support ——– ——— Oppose ——– No
NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opinion
9/12/09 55 33 22 42 11 31 3
8/17/09 52 33 19 46 11 35 2
6/21/09 62 NA NA 33 NA NA 5
23. Say health care reform does NOT include the option of a government-sponsored health plan – in that case would you support or oppose the rest of the proposed changes to the health care system being developed by (Congress) and (the Obama administration)?
Support Oppose No opinion
9/12/09 50 42 8
The poll got garbled up, but what it said on 22 and 23 is that the opposition was 42% with and without the public option, while support dipped from 55% to 50% without the public option. The hacks at the washington post thus conclude that there is more support if the public option is dropped. This should be unbelievable but it’s just par for the course for the propagandists at the post.
Z
Here is the full poll:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..9091400007
It’s even worse than I thought. I don’t even know what the basis is for their claim that “If that single provision (government sponsored public option) were removed, opposition to the overall package drops by six percentage points, according to the poll”. From questions 22 and 23, the opposition appears to stay the same while he support drops w/o the public option.
22. Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?
——– Support ——– ——— Oppose ——– No
NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opinion
9/12/09 55 33 22 42 11 31 3
8/17/09 52 33 19 46 11 35 2
6/21/09 62 NA NA 33 NA NA 5
23. Say health care reform does NOT include the option of a government-sponsored health plan – in that case would you support or oppose the rest of the proposed changes to the health care system being developed by (Congress) and (the Obama administration)?
Support Oppose No opinion
9/12/09 50 42 8
The poll got garbled up, but what it said on 22 and 23 is that the opposition was 42% with and without the public option, while support dipped from 55% to 50% without the public option. The hacks at the washington post thus conclude that there is more support if the public option is dropped. This should be unbelievable but it’s just par for the course for the propagandists at the post.
Z
“They should have used the Obama innauguration”
Or the million man march, for an even more grotesque and dishonest irony
Blub@26: “…no PO; no bill…which I’m fine with…”
Same here. Obama and the dems can take their watered-down “healthcare reform” and stick it where the proctoscope can’t reach.
Pressing the progressives is not much use for those of us that live under one of the Republicrats on the list of those opposing healthcare reform–like our freshman Rep. Betsy Markey (Colo.). Her opponent, the unspeakble but at least amusing Marilyn Musgrave would have expressed views little if at all different from Markey’s.
I cannot understand. What do so-called Democrats of this stripe think happened in the last election? That we loved Republican policies and performance, but wanted to see new hairstyles and makeup? Do they really want to run on the shambles that they have made of the Democratic victory last time around?
Amusing in a “watching-a-cat-eat-mouse-entrails” kinda way.
I made my two calls this morning here in Florida. I told them both I want a Public Option and I recommend they support it and I will be watching.
I don’t visit this site often enough so I’m not sure if it’s already been posted here, but here’s Chris laying it out very clearly and passionately in last summer’s Netroots Nation (Jane was also on this panel):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..r_embedded
(And no, it’s not a rickroll.)
Where is the latest whip count? It’s so hard to find it on this site. It should be displayed prominently, so we know which members of the Progressive Caucus still need to be persuaded. HELLO????
41 comments? This is very disappointing. Libs are going to be rolled, yet again. If you think any PO or single payer is coming, you be stupid.
“He” is a magician. I guess. Good lord, how pathetic
Seriously, only 41 comments? This saddens me.
My family are hard right and I have often thought that they have a lot in common with the left. They are dying for campaign reform. They are more concerned about the unions than the corporations, but still, they’d vote for campaign reform. They are also against Wall Street bailouts and anything being too big to fail so it has to be saved at taxpayer expense. Aren’t Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders teaming up on some proposed legislation? There are some major differences in why (and in the case of those people, even knowing why), but a lot of the goals are the same.
435 representatives, and only 16 promise to do the right thing?
I fail to see the silver lining in this.
Perhaps this has been addressed, but it seems that working on the Senate would be easier. If just 1 member of the Democratic caucus refused to vote for cloture, any bill without the public option would be stalled. I know that Bernie Sanders has lectured the Democratic caucus about voting for cloture to stop a Republican filibuster even if an individual Senator ultimately votes against the bill. But, this is that important. Maybe Bernie should reconsider.
How many Democratic Senators would hold out for a public option?
rather pathetic. follow the money