Those sneaky snakes.

This is classic!! Thanks Jane!!

I really dislike Alter’s recent musings, but there is a very serious issue here. Glenn Greenwald DOES often claim he knows the motivations for why people do what they do, with no evidence. He does it again and again and again. And I’m sorry to say Jane Hamsher does it as well.

This is a serious question. I have no problem with using real evidence to attack positions, but this knee-jerk defensiveness of Greenwald is not helpful.

Greenwald does a lot of good work, but he exhibits serious problems as well.

You know, I hope Obama says Public Option or Bust on Wednesday night. If it doesn’t pass, give me a congress that will pass it in 2010.

2010 Congress will be the same one we have now, ITYM 2011 Congress.

And the 2011 Congress seems likely to have a few Blue Dogs replaced by Republicans. We need to pass some reform with the existing Congress.

I’ve been pushing on redistricting as something that should begin to concern us; strategically we may be better off not working on Congress so much as state legislatures – they will be defining the Congressional districts for the 2012 election (one in which I hope Obama has coat tails again – it seems certain that african american GOTV will work in 2012). With new district maps that carve Blue Dog seats up we could possibly add to the progressive caucus without losing much of anything.

as kagroX once tweeted:

Please. Red card. Ejected.

Guy’s a talking points machine.

But Glenn is a total snake. Wah! He doesn’t play by the beltway roools! No fair! We should all go back to putting old issues on microfiche!

The sunlight. It burns.

I think they may need to change the name of “Twitter” to “Sniper”.

I’d love to leave a clever comment, but I’m laughing too hard.
Must be my Inner Barbarian rebelling again.

Serious accusations against firepups who read Jane and those who read Glenn.

Any links to support this?

or just a “knee-jerk comment?

I hope Mr. Alter twitters about how it is time consider torturing human beings as a new public policy.

That was great stuff.

-G

Jon, find an editor to “alter” your whining.

or just a “knee-jerk comment?

Yes, that Greenwald. What a snake! How dare he point out the inconsistencies in someone’s thinking! What does he think he is, a lawyer or something?

Simple.

Brilliant … can’t stop laughing

First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they whine about you on Twitter, then you win.

Jane is just en fuego lately!

Instead of t-p-ing their houses, we should pile up cocktail weenies on their lawns when Alter et al do this shit. Hey, Jonathan, can you explain why every other American isn’t entitled to the fabulous lymphoma treatment that you got?

I thought not.

Certainly Glen Greenwald is no Ezra or Joe Klein or Jonathon Alter. These “kleins” are small, substandard, little pathetic journalist pretenders.`But Jonathon, how do we know when you are being snarky or serving your corporate overlords?

I like the status quo on health care in the United States. I’ve got health insurance and I don’t give a damn about the 47 million suckers who don’t. Obama and Congress must be stopped. No bill! I’m better off the way things are…And how could the supporters of these reform bills believe in anything as stupid as a “public option”? Do they really believe that the health-insurance cartel deserves a little competition to keep them honest? …I prefer the status quo, where the for-profit insurance companies suck at the teat of the federal government. Corporate welfare’s what we’ve got, and it’s a damn good system.

I don’t get this, every time I see Alter on Tweety he rails for universal health care and bases his argument on the care he received.

Despite overwhelming popular support for the public option, people must be reasonable. Politicians and pundits are concerned that insurance companies will lose too many customers if the people get what they want. Better to have a mandate with no option. They promise to include some harsh language in the “reform” bill.

New Title

How To Get More Campaign Contributions From The Insurance Lobby

I’ve read quite a bit of Greenwald’s writing in the last two or three years, and I can’t recall a penchant for such a thing on his part. Generally, if he claims he knows what someone’s thinking, there’s a quote to back it up. Wondering if someone is thinking a particular thing isn’t the same thing as claiming to know it is, nor is pointing out that someone could have other motivations besides those he’s claiming to have.

As some folks here realize, I’m usually pretty quick to pick up on logic mistakes. Greenwald makes remarkably few.

Speaking of which, you claimed the existence of something – Greenwald claiming to know what was on somoene’s mind. Have any examples you can link to?

Here’s what Alter Twittered two weeks ago about Joe Lieberman’s flipflop on the public option.

Joe Lieberman sells out on health care. I’m shocked! Always been a serious putz but this is shameful.

And your flipflop is what, Jon?

Alter in Newsweek

From the Wall Street Journal:
‘”I wish he had given that speech he gave today a month ago, two months ago,” said Richard Trumka, secretary-treasurer of the AFL-CIO, who reiterated that his union wouldn’t campaign for politicians unless they back a so-called public option.”‘
Good for Trumka. It sounds like he hasn’t forgotten his pledge.
http://online.wsj.com/article/…..90549.html

I think Liberman’s wifey is a lobbyist, so maybe that makes it shameful. But when you are on your knees begging for access to write a book while doing a Nadia Comaneci routine, well, that’s shameless.

I think PW just rewrote Ghandi.

Alter works for the Washington Post Corp. and the Washington Post Corp. has a vested interested in defeating a public option, they all have their talking points.

Excellent post Jane.

I am not a participant of “the Twitter.”

Is there any way folks can “Twitter back” to Mr. Alter re his bs on Glenn?

It’s shocking! Just shocking!

Modernized Ghandi.

Say it in under 125 words and I’ll post it on your behalf. (need the last 15 to say it is from you)

Twitter Whore

“Words” or “characters”?

I always thought it was characters, though I’ve never “twitted” in my life either.

Perhaps Mister Alter would like some Cheese to go with that Whine.

I thought it was 140 characters.

yeah yeah, details details. 140 characters. (i was too busy counting the letters of her name and adding from @ to my total)

Twat this, Alter.

Be careful with the Ghandi references or I’ll have to break out my lame-assed Ghandi pun.

There is more than 140 characters on twitter. *g*

You really shouldn’t talk about Ghandi like that.

Is that like a panda gun?

My position is totally consistent: I strongly favor a public option or, failing that, what I call a “souped up” co-op.

I think he meant “suped up”, but “souped up” is more accurate… a co-op would be nothing but watered down reform.

One of the reasons I’ve avoided twitter is that I’ve always found it hard to say something intelligent in 140 characters. What’s worse, as Alter has proved, it’s very easy to say something stupid in 140 characters.

I believe that was sarcasm. Unfortunately, given Alter’s past, it’s somewhat hard to tell.

BTW, has anyone “tweeted” KO on this? He’s ALWAYS got that toady Alter on. I’m wondering, given the number of WaPoo and Newsweek folks that appear on Countdown, if there’s something in his contract that requires their appearances.

But Alter ought to go the way of Dana Milbank [i.e., into the shitter].

Twitter = bumper sticker speak

He is on the Ed show too.

Worse. But since you mentioned…

Eats, Shoots & Leaves.

I cannot insult JoeKlein, JonathonAlter, JoeScarkiller or any of these phonies in less than 140 characters. They are the enemy just as much as Henry Paulson or Rahm Emanuel. I need at least 140 words to properly describe these neo-cons.

So is there a link/contract between MSNBC & Newsweek/WaPoo that requires these idiots to show up [and frequently shill their books]?

Sigh.
I’ve always thought Alter is an ass. Seems like he says one thing on KO just to go along/get along. But beltway insider through and through. Keith needs to take him off the commentater list…

FunnyWheelieDiva

Twitter = fastest way possible to blog whore.

I don’t know that it’s actually Keith’s choice.

It is the MSM mutual admiration society.

My guess about the MSNBC/WPNI relationship (and it’s a total WAG) is that it goes back to the days when MSNBC was owned partly by Bill Gates, a close buddy of Warren Buffett, who was a bridge partner of Katharine Graham.

But that’s a WAG.

Try this:

Upping my standards, so up yours.

Maybe someone has already noted this: the linked Alter piece seems to be satire. I hope.

Yes. Tongue in cheek.

It is but I don’t think these folks care.

This is an email I sent to Alter a week or two ago:

To Jonathan Alter:

I have always respected and trusted you as journalist and as a sane and reasonable man. I can’t say that any more.
I have watched with pity, as you have shilled relentlessly for the white house, to pass its health care reform bill.
The final straw was seeing you on the Ed Shulz Program. I didn’t know how to feel watching you beg for your life on the air. Compassion,
Hatred of the insurance industry? It all turned to disgust as you tried desperately to get a man to agree with you, who has been
(For what its worth) faithful to the people he feels are his “constituents”, his audience. Do you remember discussing that Phony “co-op” idea like it was really something to be proud of? “Super strong”, like “super glue”?? Mr. Alter you don’t know or care
What a “health care co -op” is! No one knows what they are but you don’t even have
Enough respect for the 47 million people you are helping to sell out, to even try to present a reasonable argument. You sounded like a junkie
Begging for $20.00. I know you are sick. Millions of us are sick. I have worked all my life, and I have spent my ENTIRE
Adult life without access to health care. Millions of us have. I have liver cancer myself. Brought on by hepatitis.
I am trying what’s left of my life, to make life better for those future Americans
Who have to live and die under this corpora-tacracy. Do you know that they also plan to FORCE us by law, to buy private insurance?
Of course you do! You added insult to injury by advocating we achieve “universal coverage” by forcing those of us who can’t
Afford private insurance, to buy it anyway! Thanks Jonathan, I’ll go on without coverage, and be a criminal for it too.
You are trying to shove 47 million people out of the life boat so you can climb in. I hope you can’t sleep at night.

Very Sincerely
Xxxxxx xxxxxx
443 xxx xxxx

Thanks, TexBetsy. I just signed up for The Twitter, and designated that I’d “follow” Alter. How do I get him to read my insults?

[You can PM me @ aol.com if you want.]

Thanks. I’m pretty computer savvy, but The Twitter never seemed like anything that would enrich my life. Like, say YouTube.

It was satriacal, back before he started full time shilling for the blue dog scam

email me. tex betsy at gmail. i am also texbetsy on twitter

Sure you can:
Gddmnd mthrfckng ccksckrs.

Secret of twitter: link to something longer using tinyurl.com or bit.ly to shorten the URL as well.

Also: you are = u r
and other shortening techniques, as immediately above.

Thanks for this Jane. Evidence of the MSM “at work” is priceless.

Alter’s claim that it is the “left” that has lost perspective, as opposed to the Becks and Limbaughs and the GOP indicates that Alter has lost perspective, never had any, or doesn’t care because it sounds good to a rabid base.

His claim that other items in this dog’s breakfast of insurer health care legislation is more important than a public option obscures the utility of a public option in making those other things actually available to those that need them, including health insurance itself. Again, Alter doesn’t get it or doesn’t care, but it all sounds elegantly reasonable and oh, so bipartisan.

Would it be too much snark to suggest that bipartisanship itself is a means to an end – imperfect but better legislation that solves problems rather than ignores them or makes them worse?

Compromise that gives in without yielding something credible and worthwhile in and of itself is just giving in. It’s the sort of thing battered spouses do in an irrational hope that the battering will stop and live will magically get better, a domestic form of appeasement that works about as well at home as it did for England and Chamberlain.

Mr. Alter and his colleagues’ work should come with a warning label – reading it may be hazardous to your health.

Keith is in the Spotlight contact list.
So, I spotlighted (spotlit?) this post to him.

FWDiva

The PO is a means to an end. Heavy regulation of the insurance industry–removing their anti-trust exemption–would help. competition

(sarcasm)Right(/sarcasm). The people who are against the public option would fall all over themselves to impose heavy regulations on the insurance industry.

.

more tweeting jake tapper… van jones, glenn beck’s mcarthyism

Watched J-Alt on CNN a week or two ago when he was attempting rhetorically to reduce the whole of the health care issue to ‘pre-existing conditions.’ Passionately and unconvincingly he argued that if we eliminated pre-existing conditions from the insurance industry’s aresenal of anti-human weapons, we should all go home happy.

WTF?

I’m with Alters on this one. Some lefties have been busy believing all those “anonymous sources in the White House said this-n-that” in every right wing article they read (or what Greenwald says in his columns!), that they have lost perspective. President Obama has said and keeps saying he wants a public option (or doesn’t care what the hell you call it as long as the final outcome is competition against the health insurance/pharmaceutical industry so they will lower their prices for gawd sakes!) and Nancy Pelosi keeps saying she will not put forth a bill that does not include a public option as well. But yet! Some lefties are freaking out and lashing out at everything they read and hear against President Obama and to me they’re sounding more like right wingers than lefties at this point. I’m getting sick of it.

Beautifully hilarious, Jane!

These idjits just cannot help themselves. And 238 followers. Wow.

Neil @ 72 ~ ooooh, bit of blood on the keyboard ~ go Marcy go!

It is true the public option gambit goes back to 2005 and the formation of the Herndon Alliance of which HCAN is a principal. It was to counter the single-payerites with language like “politically unfeasable” and “Americans want a system that’s uniquely American.” Yeah, right.

fat cat aritocrat is satisfied with the status quo. Alter’s a deep thinker?

A PO is a good idea, but left has lost perspective. The rest of bill–universal cov,ending discrim. based on preexisting cond. –more impt.

I have to agree with Alter on this one. A PO is a good idea and without it, the rest of the bill is more impotent.

- Tom

The “journolist” group strikes again. I note the Alter provides no explanation for his flip flop, other than to attack Greenwald.

The village has to go.

Good on you Jane keep kicking his ass.The guy is one of the most disgusting people running around pretending he is a liberal for chrissakes.I usually switch the TV machine or turn it over when he comes on MSNBC Countdown,the way he edges his bet “I am for the Public option but liberals ought to take the deal without the PO”.

Goosh! he is annoying,but more over did anyone not catch him saying just after Sen Kennedy died,that Kennedy told him yrs ago he would take any deal without a PO.Bear in mind he,Alter,never made this public when Kennedy was alive.It’s only after his death,this super secret comes out.Now if he doesn’t make your skin crawl with scorn,well,well.

Is it just me, or is @JonathanAlter really just a rather pathetic and poorly programmed AliceBot?

When did Jonathan Alter change his name to Rob Zuber?

Nobody said this was going to be pretty

Well, that’s just not true. I certainly did. Just before the war started, I distinctly remember saying, “Aunt Ermintrude, we’re going to have a war. And it’s going to be pretty. And we’re going to have torture and extraordinary rendition. And they’re going to be pretty as well. Damn pretty.”

So next time you think of saying, “Nobody said this was going to be pretty”, think again. You’re wrong. Dead wrong.

you missed the point on Alter’s snark column.

Got ‘em.

Damn Jane! Can you be any more on the ball than you are today! Great post. Keep diggin in on them.