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	<title>Comments on: Baucus Bill:  Forcing Americans To Buy Junk Insurance They Can&#8217;t Afford to Use</title>
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	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: NationalInsecurity</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43649</link>
		<dc:creator>NationalInsecurity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 03:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43649</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for invitation, but I’m in midst of a start up med device firm, meeting with private equity investors, interviewing prospective team members, setting up cap table, filing patent and corp docs, etc.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for invitation, but I’m in midst of a start up med device firm, meeting with private equity investors, interviewing prospective team members, setting up cap table, filing patent and corp docs, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: newtonusr</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43236</link>
		<dc:creator>newtonusr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 07:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Instead of just welcoming explanations here, &lt;a href=&quot;http://seminal.firedoglake.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;write Seminal Diaries and lay it out&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And welcome.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of just welcoming explanations here, <a href="http://seminal.firedoglake.com/" rel="nofollow">write Seminal Diaries and lay it out</a>.</p>
<p>And welcome.</p>
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		<title>By: NationalInsecurity</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43234</link>
		<dc:creator>NationalInsecurity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 07:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43234</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I would like to politely disagree - paying for medical care is both Baucus’ charter and what I’m concerned about.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A key fear is that people who currently have insurance will lose something.  They think they’re currently covered but they can afford the premiums.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For these people Baucus’ proposal will a) tax current employee benefits, b) provide no additional care, c) provide additional justification for insurers to raise their rates to compensate for their “losses.”  Where’s the win in that scenario for someone with employer subsidized insurance?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The current CBO scoring suggests we need $25-100 billion a year to balance the increased cost of universal coverage.  At the low end the assumption is that we can reduce cost of increased in Medicare reimbursement, as well as some efficiencies in waster, fraud &amp; abuse.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Alternative: We can strip out $200 billion a year, at minimum, from what Americans are currently paying for health insurance (sic) marketing, bureaucracy, duplicate forms and profits - and not change a single medical reimbursement rate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I invent medical devices and deal with reimbursement as part of our business planning.  I would welcome explanations why Single Payer doesn’t make fiscal sense for the US.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to politely disagree &#8211; paying for medical care is both Baucus’ charter and what I’m concerned about.</p>
<p>A key fear is that people who currently have insurance will lose something.  They think they’re currently covered but they can afford the premiums.</p>
<p>For these people Baucus’ proposal will a) tax current employee benefits, b) provide no additional care, c) provide additional justification for insurers to raise their rates to compensate for their “losses.”  Where’s the win in that scenario for someone with employer subsidized insurance?</p>
<p>The current CBO scoring suggests we need $25-100 billion a year to balance the increased cost of universal coverage.  At the low end the assumption is that we can reduce cost of increased in Medicare reimbursement, as well as some efficiencies in waster, fraud &amp; abuse.</p>
<p>Alternative: We can strip out $200 billion a year, at minimum, from what Americans are currently paying for health insurance (sic) marketing, bureaucracy, duplicate forms and profits &#8211; and not change a single medical reimbursement rate.</p>
<p>I invent medical devices and deal with reimbursement as part of our business planning.  I would welcome explanations why Single Payer doesn’t make fiscal sense for the US.</p>
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		<title>By: DeanOR</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43229</link>
		<dc:creator>DeanOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 07:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43229</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“The hope is that employers would buy cheaper, less generous coverage for employees, thereby reducing the overuse of medical services.”&lt;br /&gt;
Happy Labor Day from Max Baucus&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The hope is that employers would buy cheaper, less generous coverage for employees, thereby reducing the overuse of medical services.”<br />
Happy Labor Day from Max Baucus</p>
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		<title>By: sporkovat</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43207</link>
		<dc:creator>sporkovat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43207</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;heh, they’ll find a way to reward the Democrats for such a “gift.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and it won’t be by electing ‘more and better’ thats for sure.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3rd parties should be ready to catch the outraged, disenchanted populace after such a plan is enacted, and offer them and alternative, finally.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>heh, they’ll find a way to reward the Democrats for such a “gift.”</p>
<p>and it won’t be by electing ‘more and better’ thats for sure.</p>
<p>3rd parties should be ready to catch the outraged, disenchanted populace after such a plan is enacted, and offer them and alternative, finally.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43205</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43205</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Just one of the horrible examples he gave were: employers must offer something to employees or face a penalty, but in a giveback to the insurance companies, there is a grandfather clause that prevents employees from choosing a BETTER, more affordable option from the pool. He cited WalMart as an example. Crappy insurance with high copays and premiums. Employees mostly opt out and use Medicaid now (which states pay 50% of ).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A lot of WalMart employees are NOT covered by them. They receive coverage because their spouse has insurance through THEIR employer (not WalMart). So, WalMart can say all their employees (or some high percentage) have coverage, but they do not provide it all themselves.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If there is a mandate that an employer must cover their employees, then there would have to be a large exception to let them out of that or else they would have to begin covering people they haven’t before.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, WalMart also instructs many of their low-pay ‘associates’ to go to the local gov’t for poverty assistance instead of just paying them decent wages. They get away with a lot of crap because the economy isn’t employing enoug people and local governments are desperate for any employer of their size to move in.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We need more fundamental productive work and not just retail ‘associates’. Obama knows this.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Just one of the horrible examples he gave were: employers must offer something to employees or face a penalty, but in a giveback to the insurance companies, there is a grandfather clause that prevents employees from choosing a BETTER, more affordable option from the pool. He cited WalMart as an example. Crappy insurance with high copays and premiums. Employees mostly opt out and use Medicaid now (which states pay 50% of ).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>A lot of WalMart employees are NOT covered by them. They receive coverage because their spouse has insurance through THEIR employer (not WalMart). So, WalMart can say all their employees (or some high percentage) have coverage, but they do not provide it all themselves.</p>
<p>If there is a mandate that an employer must cover their employees, then there would have to be a large exception to let them out of that or else they would have to begin covering people they haven’t before.</p>
<p>Of course, WalMart also instructs many of their low-pay ‘associates’ to go to the local gov’t for poverty assistance instead of just paying them decent wages. They get away with a lot of crap because the economy isn’t employing enoug people and local governments are desperate for any employer of their size to move in.</p>
<p>We need more fundamental productive work and not just retail ‘associates’. Obama knows this.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43203</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43203</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;125 million AMericans have 1 of 4 chronic illnesses - hypertension, heart disease, asthma and diabetes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those 4 illnesses are responsible nearly 75% of all medical costs.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. Exercise, stop smoking, stop eating junk food processed sugars and refined grains and trans fats. Perhaps even teach some kids what to eat for nutrition &amp; health (protein, fat, carbohydrates and fiber with variety for nutrients and vitamins).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2. Get insurance rate discount! Maybe even a company bonus to keep it up!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, I think you’re forgetting long-term care for the elderly. It’s expensive. Then there’s pharmaceuticals which are terrific, but somewhat expensive too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh well, start with what we can do cheaply: health care reform with 1 &amp; 2 above!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>125 million AMericans have 1 of 4 chronic illnesses &#8211; hypertension, heart disease, asthma and diabetes.</p>
<p>Those 4 illnesses are responsible nearly 75% of all medical costs.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>1. Exercise, stop smoking, stop eating junk food processed sugars and refined grains and trans fats. Perhaps even teach some kids what to eat for nutrition &amp; health (protein, fat, carbohydrates and fiber with variety for nutrients and vitamins).</p>
<p>2. Get insurance rate discount! Maybe even a company bonus to keep it up!</p>
<p>But, I think you’re forgetting long-term care for the elderly. It’s expensive. Then there’s pharmaceuticals which are terrific, but somewhat expensive too.</p>
<p>Oh well, start with what we can do cheaply: health care reform with 1 &amp; 2 above!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43202</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43202</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s messy, but I’m still okay with the path we’re on. Don’t confuse fighting and wailing with complete intractibility.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We’re getting there and that’s good. There will be a final product and it will be much much better than where we are now. It will be a great day to celebrate.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s messy, but I’m still okay with the path we’re on. Don’t confuse fighting and wailing with complete intractibility.</p>
<p>We’re getting there and that’s good. There will be a final product and it will be much much better than where we are now. It will be a great day to celebrate.</p>
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		<title>By: PriscillaQOB</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43201</link>
		<dc:creator>PriscillaQOB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43201</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks so much for answering!  My questions still aren’t answered, however.  According to Taibbi, the mandates in the first 4 bills are a mess (Baucus’s bill wasn’t out yet when he wrote the article in Rolling Stone).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just one of the horrible examples he gave were:  employers must offer something to employees or face a penalty, but in a giveback to the insurance companies, there is a grandfather clause that prevents employees from choosing a BETTER, more affordable option from the pool.  He cited WalMart as an example.  Crappy insurance with high copays and premiums.  Employees mostly opt out and use Medicaid now (which states pay 50% of ).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In at least one of the House bills and the HELP bill, WalMart would be grandfathered in and since they offer insurance, their employees would be barred from choosing a better plan that is more affordable.  Their choices would be WalMart’s crappy insurance or Medicaid (after paying a pretty steep penalty) which would shift the burden to the states and there is no cost control or guarantees that the Feds will cover the difference.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I suggest you read Taibbi’s article if you haven’t — it’s online and free now.  Very eye-opening to me and it convinced me that crappy isn’t better than nothing.  It is dangerous and could be a huge disaster.  There’s a whole lot of crappy in all five bills if Taibbi is right.  Forgive me if I misquoted here — I’m working at the same time that I’m reading FDL, LOL, and I don’t have time to refer back to the RS article right now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for answering!  My questions still aren’t answered, however.  According to Taibbi, the mandates in the first 4 bills are a mess (Baucus’s bill wasn’t out yet when he wrote the article in Rolling Stone).  </p>
<p>Just one of the horrible examples he gave were:  employers must offer something to employees or face a penalty, but in a giveback to the insurance companies, there is a grandfather clause that prevents employees from choosing a BETTER, more affordable option from the pool.  He cited WalMart as an example.  Crappy insurance with high copays and premiums.  Employees mostly opt out and use Medicaid now (which states pay 50% of ).  </p>
<p>In at least one of the House bills and the HELP bill, WalMart would be grandfathered in and since they offer insurance, their employees would be barred from choosing a better plan that is more affordable.  Their choices would be WalMart’s crappy insurance or Medicaid (after paying a pretty steep penalty) which would shift the burden to the states and there is no cost control or guarantees that the Feds will cover the difference.  </p>
<p>I suggest you read Taibbi’s article if you haven’t — it’s online and free now.  Very eye-opening to me and it convinced me that crappy isn’t better than nothing.  It is dangerous and could be a huge disaster.  There’s a whole lot of crappy in all five bills if Taibbi is right.  Forgive me if I misquoted here — I’m working at the same time that I’m reading FDL, LOL, and I don’t have time to refer back to the RS article right now.</p>
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		<title>By: MosquitoFleet</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/09/07/shocking-baucus-bill-transcribes-rahmsnowe-deal-on-triggers/#comment-43197</link>
		<dc:creator>MosquitoFleet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;A mandate is important, but only if you provide options other than the ones that currently exist.  This can’t be stressed enough.  For one thing, insurance companies operate outside of anti-trust laws, so they can operate like a giant monopoly.  This plan does nothing to curb those costs, and does nothing to disincentify the enormous portion of what you and I pay that goes towards monsterous salaries.  To say that Healthcare is as inexpensive as it can be when 40% of their gross goes towards overhead, including those $100K per hour salaries and advertizing, is acceptong a horrible system as the “best we can get”.  Baucus’s bill will do nothing at all to address the root of the problem which is that Health Insurance is just too expensive. Even if you have it, you’re paying too much. The idea that you can dump 10% or more of your salary into Health Insurance, and only 6 out of 10 of those dollars goes towards paying for health. My family of three is barely scraping by, but I will still be expected to pay a huge percentage of my income toward Health Insurance under this bill. Another consideration, which no one seems to mention, is the really small business owner, independent contractors.  My dad is one.  His income would not allow him a subsidy, but his operational expenses cut his actual profits down to amount that leaves little or no room for him to buy coverage.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A mandate is important, but only if you provide options other than the ones that currently exist.  This can’t be stressed enough.  For one thing, insurance companies operate outside of anti-trust laws, so they can operate like a giant monopoly.  This plan does nothing to curb those costs, and does nothing to disincentify the enormous portion of what you and I pay that goes towards monsterous salaries.  To say that Healthcare is as inexpensive as it can be when 40% of their gross goes towards overhead, including those $100K per hour salaries and advertizing, is acceptong a horrible system as the “best we can get”.  Baucus’s bill will do nothing at all to address the root of the problem which is that Health Insurance is just too expensive. Even if you have it, you’re paying too much. The idea that you can dump 10% or more of your salary into Health Insurance, and only 6 out of 10 of those dollars goes towards paying for health. My family of three is barely scraping by, but I will still be expected to pay a huge percentage of my income toward Health Insurance under this bill. Another consideration, which no one seems to mention, is the really small business owner, independent contractors.  My dad is one.  His income would not allow him a subsidy, but his operational expenses cut his actual profits down to amount that leaves little or no room for him to buy coverage.</p>
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