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I was curious about the way that a "Democratic aide" is interpreting the slipping poll numbers for Democrats vs. Republicans in 2010. Greg Sargent:
It’s hard not to see these numbers as a direct outgrowth of the health care debate and the current impasse. Either way, Democratic aides acknowledge that failing on health care would trigger a revolt from the Dem base, perhaps depressing fundraising, and cement the view among independents that Dem rule has been ineffective.
“Looking at the lessons of 94, failure is not an option,” one aide emails. “Failure to get a bill passed is far worse for Democrats in 2010 at the polls.”
Interestingly, this has created a built-in tension: While Senate Dems have more control over whether health care succeeds, the stakes are higher for House Dems. It’s a tougher cycle for the House, aides say, meaning they’d likely face bigger losses if Senate Dems can’t resolve their impasse with Republicans or if they don’t opt for reconciliation to get reform done.
Either way, if they look hard enough, liberals can locate something of a silver lining in all the bad news: It ups the pressure on Congressional Dems not just to do health care this year, but do it right.
I think Greg is saying something different from the Democratic aide. Greg is saying that the Senate conservadems create a bad situation for the more vulnerable Democratic House members if they force some shitty bailout of the insurance industry on them. The aide is spouting the conventional party wisdom that the White House is pushing: it’s a "win" if they just "pass something," and the party will suffer heavy losses if they don’t.
So, the White House is telling progressive Democrats in the House that they will take down the party and tank the 2010 election if they don’t sign on to something the Senate can stomach. I’m with Greg: that is a recipe for disaster, and the House Democrats are the ones who will pay the price.
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I agree with your analysis, Jane, but I’d like to add that Obama’s polling numbers on healthcare reform suggest that in fact the people ARE paying attention, and generally think that “something (esp. without a public option or single-payer)” is most definitely NOT better than nothing (no bill). From what I can tell, the peole want single payer, and are willing to settle for a public option, but the WH and conservaDems are selling us out to corporate fat cat interests on that and “we” are noticing.
Like it would be a “win” if Congress passed another bail-out for Goldman Scratch so that it and its brethren could hand out larger bonuses. Passing a bill that gives massive subsidies to insurers without equally massively re-regulating what passes for the “health insurance contracts” they sell would be a call to political arms for those who oppose these Republicans in Democrats’ clothing.
It doesn’t seem useful of Greg to give anonymous “aides” a press forum when they continue to spout conservadem talking points. If the aide can’t or won’t put his or her name to it, they can shout on the street corner, get their own blog or pout to the WaPoop; it’s always willing to lend a hand to power.
what’s missing from your analysis is the “why” — Obamacare without a strong public option will provide the GOP with the perfect campaign issue — prices won’t go down, but people will be “forced” to buy insurance, and there will be a massive new set of regulations of the insurance industry that the parasites can blame for “higher premiums”.
And the only way to prevent this from happening is for progressives to make the exact same point pre-emptively…. that means attacking Obama and the Blue Dogs directly now…
Of course, that means that the “leaders” of the progressive movement will get invited to fewer “insider” conference calls…and DC cocktail parties…
If we keep losing 300K to 500K jobs each month this administration and Congressional Dems are going to have a hell of a lot more to worry about than health care reform in 2010. This bipartisanship bullshit is paving the way for a return of the movement conservatives.
Jane…
You and Greg Sargent are dead on with your analysis… I just posted a diary here on FDL telling Mitch Stewart and OFA the same thing…
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7758
These clowns have the cojones to send me an email asking for my money at the same time they are letting it be known they are willing to throw their progressive base under the bus so they can ensure their share of the corporate dole in the next elections?
Sounds like we need to shout a little louder to our reps and Senators and send mor KMPA emails to these guys when they come asking for our support…
Yup.
To quote the inimitable Edith Anne from Laugh-In… “… and that’s the troof”
Shorter Rahm: A bill, a bill, my kingdom for a(ny) bill.
Trumka of the AFL-CIO has the right idea: no public option, no $$ from the unions. And what is wrong with that? Nada.
Massive re-registrations from Dem to Independent or third parties just might get noticed by the DCCC and DSCC, but I wouldn’t put any money on it.
Why are they convinced that the slide in poll numbers is related to NOT passing a bill rather than not passing a public option (or something better like single payer).
There is no way that passing crap will help anyone but the R’s in the next cycle. Why can a layperson like me see this obvious point, but not the D establishment?!?
Any healthcare bill without a strong public option is failure. A corporate bill will only continue to have escalating costs, higher deductables, and declining benefits. Obama’s based is activist. If he fails to demand a public option in the bill, the activism will be used against him and the Party. These are not your typical voters. They are more demanding and less tolerant of being lied to.
The scale of this disaster is impossible to calculate. It’s like absolutely everything is in the toilet, Bush III without W, all around. And how many voters will believe any other Democrat after this? We are headed for some serious doo-doo, especially now that violent hate rhetoric has gone mainstream.
I’d move to a saner country if I could. For me, it’s just like 1970. I don’t see anything to do but get a little piece of land and drop out (AGAIN)…
Shit, if they believed any Dems after JBJ why would this be any different?
That’s the part that I think is up in the air. The Democrats and Obama are failing, but the Republicans are crazy. Will voters switch back to the Republicans or just stay home? I keep saying this but we should be thinking about a new party, one that uses Democratic access to getting candidates’ names on the ballot. Voters do want an alternative. We should at least give it a shot to see if they mean it and will vote for something new. We could call it the Reform Party but with the way the Republicans and Democrats are acting I can think of no better time than now for a new political movement to take root. It is why we should stop working with Obama and almost all the Democrats. It is not that they don’t support some of our issues. It is that they don’t support really any of them. And what they do support, Afghanistan, the economy, healthcare, is not going to work. So what we are talking here is not liberal vs. conservative but success and failure.
Where are the unions going to go?
Answer- Nowhere
More good news.
Markos did what I thought was a really good, detailed analysis on the poll numbers and IMHO, comes to the same conclusions:
It’s well worth a detailed look at this.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/1/11301/65220
Trumka was just on Mrs. Greenspan’s show on MSNBC — holding his ground.
I agree.
They can primary the fools who insist on voting with the corporatists, Rahm and the Blue Dogs… remember, next year is an election year… and Obama would probably like a second term as well…
We progressives must learn to adopt the same tactics the Repugs are using to get their way… especially when it comes to party discipline and message control… not to mention framing…
best example of framing is how we let the term “Public Option” be used instead “Medicare for All”…
A truly smart move would be for Obama to pass the 40% cut in wasted spending in Medicare and prove to the American people that it can be done.
Once that is done he can pay for the PO.
I like the idea of a third party — especially in swing “blue dog” districts. (solidly dem districts with Blue Dogs should be primaried first…) Make it clear to the Blue Dogs that unless they vote like Democrats, they’ll lose their jobs…either because a third party progressive is on the ballot, or because Democratic voters get rid of them during a primary….
No feeding the bridge critters. Just scroll.
lukasiak, my understanding is that the mandate that everyone has to buy insurance was part of the deal with the insurance industry. They agree to do away with pre-existing conditions and the govt. agrees to the mandate.
There is true bipartisanship in America right now and it is united behind publically provided health care. This is not, in any way, a corporate driven position. Maybe 100 House dems seem to get that. The corporate dems clearly do not. Obama is daily revealed as a tragic figure because he’s hooked his wagon to the corporate star which an astounding 71 + % of Americans have rejected. He’s lost an honest and vital connection to the people which will doom him as surely as it did LBJ. What this means for the dems, or the country as a whole, is unreadable at this point. It could well shift the debate to one between the further left and the far right. Unless Obama can trim his sails and tack with the populist winds he will not achieve any sort of success. It is ironic that health care might sink him before the Afghanistan war does.
Ron Paul must be smiling.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!
Dems are being setup for a huge fall. Forcing folks to pay a monthly tribute to the Insurance overloards will be incredibly unpopular with the population. To make it worse it will likely be very shitty coverage.
What a perfect thing to campaign on in 2010 -
We need to kill this disaster now. Wonder if MoveOn has the backbone to go after CorporateDems (Obama et al.)?
“So what we are talking here is not liberal vs. conservative but success and failure.”
And sane vs. batshit crazy…
“Why can a layperson like me see this obvious point, but not the D establishment?!?”
Very good question. It ain’t exactly brain surgery to put this together…
I have become so cynical (realist?) about both parties corporate mission that I cant begin to figure where the insurance industry “messaging” stops and Democratic party strategy begins. My thought is the “message” that a “win” is necessary at any cost, comes from both the lobbyists close to the corporate dems, and those bought and paid for slugs themselves. In any case throw “conventional winsdom” out the window, I dont think they are sure what will happen (with the electorate) at this point and I dont think they really care. Mission # 1 for ALL of them is to get the insurance indutry paid, then worry about what comes next, after.
They can see it, alright. They don’t want it. At this point, I am convinced that if the White House and the party wanted single-payer or a public option as badly as they wanted to shovel our money at Wall Street via bailouts, it would be happening. I think we need to reward the progressive Dems who fight for public option/single payer; attack Blue Dogs by finding and funding primary challengers; and let Obama and the White House know that the activism that helped get him elected will be turned against him.
I for one do not want to hear any lame excuses from them about how “this was the best we could do.” Bullshit – get it done, or get lost. Period.
Obama: ” Well Rahm we screwed that up.”
Rahm: ” Don’t worry I have a plan”
Obama: Really?
Rahm: “Forget the progressives, we legalize the illegals and they will vote for us.”
Obama: “Good one.”
We are all leaders.
From NYT:
What “plans”??
What “polls”?
The Obama crew has decided that their “mastery of the universe” includes being able to turn on the spigots anytime they want to raise money. Well, Obama being the “historical” figure that he is ought to understand something…
You don’t fuck your base and expect to survive. Unless his real base is the companies who can pony up the cash to continue to be the Historic Mr. Obama in 2012.
No Public Option, actually No Single-Payer No ReElection. Is that a difficult concept?
I dont think so. conservatives are polling consistenly under 30% in every category. I think if things get worse, and they will if the Dems dont pass a bill, or pass a crummy bill, there will be more opportunity for progressive gains, even if that means loss of corporate dems, and who cares about them?..honestly i think they do more damage than the right wing toons who are most repellent to the middle class. the whole point of “third way” and the “moderate” dems is to divide the middle and working class along lines of economic self interest, just as the right divides the working class along lines of racial fear and hatred. that is the game. a GOOD health reform bill, one that would serve the interests of the middle and working classes, and prove the power of govt to improve their lives, is the LAST thing they (monopoly capitalists) want.period.
Yes, the slide in poll numbers do not mean what they think it means.
I also think that walking up the stairs will get me down to the basement.
I also think that if you read a book backwards, you will get the other side of the argument.
And, it seems that if I look through the other end of the binoculars, all my problems will be smaller.
Damn straight. Unions have the shoe leather to go door-to-door for candidates; it’s hard to rouse this kind of resource for supporters of crappy legislation. So unions take their money and manpower and they primary the snot out of Blue Dogs, primary the fence sitters who failed them, and they support better candidates in districts with moderate Republicans.
And they ignore the president while concentrating about 2010-2012 time frame.
Really a damned shame that such a smart guy is going to screw the pooch so badly by pissing off his base within the first eight months of his presidency.
When the economy was anchored by a manufacturing base the unions were strong and the Dems represented the working class while the Rethugs represented the capitalists, the bosses. When the economy shifted to a financial sector anchor during the Thatcher/RayGuns years manufacturers saw more profit in shipping jobs overseas and investing in the market rather than industrial growth. Both parties now subscribe to the ideal of protecting wealth and see Wall Street as the barometer of the nation’s economic health. Both parties are going to watch the economy go into the ditch while their benefactors reap the profits from trading paper on Wall Street.
We’re basically fucked. We were dazzled by a very slick dog and pony show. It’s obvious at this point. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Everybody says this guy is smart but the facts prove otherwise.
Democrats are doing this to themselves. And they are doing it precisely because they have abandoned the party’s core principles.
Politico on CNBC right now.
I know you know this, but it is a matter of the culture they dwell in
nyceve made a sad but true observation early on in this fight – she found herself in a lunchroom with these critters on one of the days Nataline’s parents were there – and how abjectly mindless the critters were about their entitled benefits in the face of the Sarkisian’s grief – you probably recall what I’m talking about – I’m not doing it justice but it added to my understanding as to the level of insularity and just how ‘different’ their world is
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is up “better late than never.”: “Pew Poll: Americans Losing Patience with Congress”
And may I say, “D’uh!!!”
Masters of the obvious these people are.
We talk about the Blue Dogs 40-50 members and the progressives 40-60. What we forget is that there are 256 Democrats in the House. Where the hell are the other 150? Out to lunch? Gone fishing? Smoozing with lobbyists?
A loss of 1 vote and not a 2 vote switch (voting for the opposite party) would still hurt very much. As was noted loss of money and more importantly boots on the ground is even worse.
Mix in them telling their friends and family how they are going to vote.
Eventually these things add up (in a fair election anyway).
What Obama has to realize is that 8 years of Bushit has made some on edge people, and we have not seen anything turn around. Now we see a few nuts with guns and screaming getting their way. What is a person to think about their best options for influence. Also sorry to say Obama its the R’s that don’t care about getting shit and pissed on by “their” king – D’s as a whole do not as readily accept being shit on by “their” king/queen (translation: no fxcking free ride from the “base”).
Absolutely. correct 100%. Monopoly capitalism is now in the business of maintaining its stranglehold on the entire economy at any cost. thats why I say all bets are off. they are in the process of sorting the middle class co opting the wealthiest of them and throwing the rest under the bus. the middle class/ monopoly class alliance is over. thats why i think middle class working class unity is more important than ever. we are well on the way to being, maybe already are, a two class system now. the pretensions of middle class immunity from the worst travails of working class reality must be gotten rid of.
oh goodness do we agree.
I concur with Jane’s assessment as to what they are doing – am puzzled as to why he thought it would work – what was it Rahm/Plouffe offered up that helped him choose this road ?!?!
I know it isn’t a priority in light of the current battle of those immediately ahead, but if you have chewed on this at all, would love to hear your thoughts.
In looking at these items and thinking of the chance for the DOJ and others to do anything useful is worrying as well.
I see that all the investigations are in place, and they have actually been scratching at many of these issues – but if their action on other fronts is any indication they will squash these things.
Love how labor has been pounded for decades, but any large capitol is 100% off limits. I think it sucks in some ways, but please go single player and take the 20% pocket picking of the economy.
We have huge HII and Financial industry and lots of these “profits” mean nothing (great for the people taking the money, but terrible for the economy since the innovation they provide is basically just taking peoples money).
Gotta go back to work but I’ll leave y’all with this.
Namaste
Shout it from the roof tops: a universal mandate without a public option will sink the Democratic Party. It is a not so hidden regressive tax that will increase people’s costs unless there is a counterbalance. Otherwise it is a mult-billion dollar gift to the health insurance industry. People are already mightily PO’d with the trillion dollar gifts to Wall Street. The Dems will come across as being more corrupt that the Republican Congress under W. Talk about a recipe for disaster at the voting booth.
After last night’s meeting with the progressive Dems in our local club, I am absolutely certain Obama will lose his most energetic supporters if he does not deliver a public option.
Certain of it.
Obama has either been naive or too centrist or allowed himself to be steered the wrong way — don’t know which it is, don’t care.
But even my horribly hard-core conservative father-in-law is hoping and praying that there is a government-based fix to the health care system.
If Obama botches this, he loses not only his strongest supporters but any tenuous, nebulous support from old school conservatives who are fully aware the system today needs to be burnt down and started over.
What’s that leave him?
Frankly, I’ve now arrived at a point where I can’t worry about Obama’s next term. I have to worry about the 2010 mid-terms and the 2012 Congressional races because they are the next-best chance at saving our own backsides.
“Seems pretty obvious out here, outside the Beltway, and the numbers bear it out, but there’s no indication that Democratic Party leaders in DC — from Obama to Reid — are fully aware of how dangerously close they are to setting the stage for an electoral drubbing in 2010.”
ya know what?
if they can’t see that then they DESERVE a drubbing.
all this nonsense the democrats are engaged in has one effect on me: it brings out the cynic in me, which is never far from the surface.
And frankly my starting point was already “health care reform is an empty promise”, and the Democrats have gone pretty far to prove me right.
I would love to be wrong, but i don’t think i am.
Well, I guess it’s time for the Progressive Reform Party. I will be the first person to register. I voted for Obama I, not Bush III.
Fuckin’ A Ditty Bag Absolutely Goddamn Right.
multi trillion gift to the insurance industry. and they already spend a million and a half dollar per DAY on buying the govt. what will it be like when everyone is forced to finance their evil capitalist power grab? obama dosent want a “govt takeover of the insurance industry” he want an insurance industry takeover of the government.
Jane, sometimes I think you would make a wonderful COS for Obama. Any chance of that?
I thought not.
I wish the progressives would just shift gears and push “Medicare for ALL” (and improve it). Make a hard, hard push on that, and if polling backs it up, the conservadems would come running at breakneck speed to beg for a strong public option as a compromise. And then if the polling on that was REALLY REALLY GOOD, hell, we could just go ahead and do it.
Oh, and really wanted to compliment all you firepups for a good job of not feeding teh stoopid. Weren’t perfect, but very good job. Believe it or not, ignoring it does work. But it takes awhile, and a concerted effort.
The unions have to go with Obama if they ever hope to pass the card check bill. That’s all they care about. The unions have health insurance.
What is there to worry about regarding Obama’s run in 2012–regardless of what happens in 2010? You know that he is going to run, and you know that you are going to vote for him.
Where else are you going to go? Where else will anyone here go?
Rahm is asking you that question, and he’s grinning while he does it.
Old Fart,
That’s the most asine reasoning yet.
I think the medicare for all bill is going to get a vote, a fake vote to kill it of course, its set up in the house. it is co sponsored by Conyers and Kucinich
thank you! and we agree, his thoughts and motivations do not matter – was just curious as to your take.
Not so. They know if health care is hosed up, EFCA dosent have a prayer, and knowing what we know now about president blue dog, it probably dosent have a shot anyway
grin meet Labor.
frankly, Labor has already seen the WH hand on EFCA – believe that’s why they are going to do more than stamp their feet on HCR
Unbelievable!
Six months ago he was the Messiah and now he is a blue dog.
Give him a chance.
Jane, I hope you get on TeeVee and repeat this again and again. Robust public option Now.
Labor’s overrated anyway. It only has 8% of US workers. The republicans
don’t even bother to court them.
some of us dont seem to understand but labor leadership and the business lobby do, that the health care bill, a good health care bill is also a backdoor labor bill. By freeing up workers who are locked into their jobs, management will have to negotiate with labor to keep them. also a very very good thing the right does not want.
Yeah, I’m aware of the vote. I just wish the progressive caucus would make a public event out of changing gears from insisting on a public option to now insisting on Medicare for All.
Have a press conference and announce “We agreed to a strong public option as a compromise to single payer. But since the blue dogs and apparently the white house are reneging on that compromise, we hereby announce that we are going to instead push for HR676 being the health care bill that comes out of the House. We will lobby and work with our Democratic colleagues here in the House and Senate make that happen. So from now on, a bill with anything other than “Medicare for ALL” is hereby not supported.”
Something like that. Let the press run with it (Oh they will too, they’ll see CONFLICT and love the fact Obama is getting shit from his base, and they’ll run with it, all the while unknowingly making “Medicare for All” a known phrase in everyhousehold).
Then after a couple of weeks of that, if the polling were to look like Medicare for All was gaining traction, the blew dogs (and even R.E. methinks) would come begging for the progressives to accept a strong public option.
Oh well, in my dreams. In my dreams.
why would they “court” them, they are busy trying to destroy them. Labor remains the ONLY force to keep managment and their benefactors in congress in check. only 8% true. when in the 50’s it was closer to 30%. If labor ever completely went under we would all suffer for it. some “progressives” really need to stop backstabing other progressives. Only the right gains from that.
Old Fart,
I stand corrected. This is the most asinine post ever.
The reason they went from 30 to 8 was their entitlement programs kept
growing and the companies couldn’t afford to keep the doors open. Jobs went
overseas because of the cheaper labor. Shot themselves in the head.
the reason they went from 30 to 8 is because they tied their well being to the democratic party and turned their backs on the activists. that was a terrible mistake, and we have all paid for it, and they are attempting to correct it.
He’s had plenty of chances. But he keeps stabbing us in the back. I would love to be proven wrong.
No i see where he’s coming from now. Its a learning curve really and we’re all on it. we’ve all been weaned on the worst capitalist distortions and propaganda from birth. I belived we were going to get “change” too.
Yeah, I just don’t get the Afghanistan thing. How come this is a good war and Iraq was the bad war?
Have you forgotten the not so small segment of young and/or disaffected voters who either sat out the 2000 election or voted for Nader?
They set the stage for Bushco to steal the election because it was close enuf to steal…
If Obama and Rahm are counting on people who were energized at his election to vote for him in 2012 because he is the lesser of two evils, then he and Rahm will find themselves very surprised…
It is amazing what apathy and resignation can do to keep people home on election day..
Meanwhile, the rabid repugs are busy firing up their low information base
and sewing huge doses of FUD in the minds of the not much better informed “center” voters who only know what they see on TV or read in the news…
sounds like we in for another dose of Republican rule if we are not careful
I agree that if there is to be a stop put in this sellout, it has to come from the progressives standing firm and laying out what their absolute bottomline is.
Also thanks for not feeding the trolls.
LOL and jane can be Richmond
It looks like we are already getting it with Obama and the Congressional “Democrats”.
We need to (for once maybe) agree on some basic priciples for government and provide a unified front. Labor, the netroots, the peace movement, anarchists, communists and fellow workers of good will. Every time i see one of those leering, racist goons holding a copy of the constitution and a swastika i think, HOW can i reach this guy with some simple facts. Then you find that facts dont matter becuase they dont think. they react. thats why they are reactionaries and its all emotion.
Now there’s a group everbody can get behind.
Labor, the netroots, the peace movement, anarchists, communists and fellow workers of good will.
who do you think are “the left”??
Yep, nail on the head. They don’t _think_ at all. They didn’t get the nickname “teh stoopid” for nothing.
And it’s also futile to try and reach them. Here in this forum as well. Facts are ignored, logic is ignored. It’s futile. Better to ignore em.
futile, but i think we have to try anyway, because, believe it or not they have more in common with us than anyone else and they should be our natural allies. The race wedge has been the most brutaly effective divider of the working class since the beginning of English Imperialism in the 1600’s. If we cant over come that somehow we have very little chance of ever getting “change we can belive in”
I would add in the tens of millions of homeowners who will upside down in their mortgages by 2011, the millions of unemployed, the 50 million who are uninsured, the tens of millions more who are poorly insured, the hundred million or so who have high debt levels, and of course, all those who favor government that is both fair and works for them.
yep,those people who have always assumed they were part of the “in” group, arent in anymore with the ruling class. They will try to hold on to that pretension, that they are “different” (see sambot at 85)and dont have a stake in “change” but as you point out, the facts show otherwise.
This is the guy we need:
http://www.realclearpolitics.c…..holes.html
Not sure why or how race plays into what we were discussing, but I agree with you 100% that “the race wedge has been the most brutaly effective divider of the working class since the beginning of…”
Agree 100%.
However, when talking about these “idealogues” who aboslutely “don’t think”, I believe it’s completely futile to try, so we’ll just disagree on whether it’s wise to even try. They didn’t get to their position through reason and/or logic, so reason and/or logic isn’t going to change them. It would be like arguing with a religious person over God. It’s a belief system that can’t be changed, I’m afraid.
Even though for an awful lot of these “idealogues,” these positions they support runs against their very own interests. Another reason why it’s pretty stupid. But still it’s futile to try and change the true believers. And believe me, the ones that are trolling sites like this are the true believers. Often they’re even paid to troll. No rhyme, reason, or logic is going to change their minds.
IMO. YMMV.
I mention race because i think it probably underlies most of the white rural opposition to progress. They are being marginalized by the same people they vote for over and over. When they say government hasnt done anything me, they are partly right. The right uses their growing fear of economic destruction by focusing it on Dems. Its really no secret that they claim the govt (liberals) are favoring one group (black people) over you, and they buy it because 1. democrats havent delivered on their promises, and 2. That racist resentment is deeply imbedded in the American mind. the right only needs to exploit it.
I’m going to be rather strident about this, my apologies up front.
THE UNIONS DON’T HAVE HEALTH CARE.
There is no reason after the last eight years-plus to believe for a moment that the unions have anything, even if it is encoded in a contract.
We saw what happened to those contracts as companies like GM, Ford and Chrysler approached the brink of insolvency, and what happened to union jobs after insolvency for two of those firms.
Union workers can’t even be certain they have jobs until this economy turns around, and at the rate we are going, we are years away from real recovery because there is a gross insufficiency of new business to replace the manufacturing jobs lost over the last eight-plus years.
This is why the AFL-CIO, SEIU, AFSCME and many other unions are putting their shoulders to the wheel behind the public option.
I’m going to point out a missing player here in this mix, though, one group which has been conspicuously missing.
UNITED AUTO WORKERS.
Why? One of my retired UAW buddies asked UAW reps why UAW wasn’t on board.
Because the UAW is Republican, he was told.
So glad we made any effort to save their damned jobs with a bailout. /snark
There is only one way to win real healthcare reform; make companies instruct their lobbyists to stand down from pressuring politicians on their vote. In the 1960’s, activists pressured politicians because they controlled legislation. Today, it’s lobbyists that control Washington, and the legislation it produces.
Obama will sign any bill that reaches his desk. He is relying on the pressure from lobbyists, and their money, to produce the final bill that will please corporate interests.
Companies are not concerned with voters/consumers because we aim our efforts at each other; not at the power behind the curtain. Redirect our peaceful energy at companies, or more precisely, their income, and they will begin to listen to voters/consumers.
The proposition to companies by activists is simple: Stop blocking real healthcare reform or we will take away your incurious, mindless, controllable consumers, that respond to marketing like Pavlovian lab experiments, and replace them with calculating consumers with an agenda.
Why would you join a union if they can’t even provide you with healthcare?
ooh excellent point
Hear, hear!
I would love to vote for Howard Dean.
AAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You stand corrected. This is the most asinine post ever.
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Couldn’t help it.
posted in another thread – but via WSJ
POTUS to ‘re state’ his case for Healthcare Reform at the AFL-CIO Labor Day Picnic in Cincinnati – both Sweeney and Trumka will be in attendance – a sitting President has never attended
looks like we’re gonna quickly find out just how firm Labor is gonna be on this vital issue
Breaking news:
Obama to address healthcare in Joint session of congress. WSJ.
Hail Mary, anyone?
(check out Eli’s Trumka pics :)
If the Dems can’t get health reform with a public option passed ,I’m gonna bolt from the party and register as an independent
Right Hugh, but the name I like is the “Real Democratic Party.”
Look, I personally find you to be trollish. Here’s the answer you are choosing not to find on your own.
The problem isn’t that unions can’t “provide” any benefits to their members.
It’s that legislation and the Supreme Court have whittled away at the rights and powers both individuals AND unincorporated groups of individuals have had. (Bankruptcy trumps the Wagner Act, for example; instead of assuring that benefits which workers have invested in are held in a locked box, they are seen as an asset of the corporation and eaten by liabilities.)
After years of attack, the only entities which consistently have rights and power are corporations.
Unions and individuals alike cannot count on either precedent or law at this point in time, until a change has been effected across both Congress and the judiciary, a sea change in people who will uphold the rights of individuals and groups of individuals.
I agree with OFG. See here, here, here, here, here, and here.
Man I wish I could read those.
EDIT: I mean I can, if I go to my laptop, but I’m just never on my laptop much anymore.
Come on, he’s already had plenty of chances. What is it about an inadequate stimulus package, a bailout of the corrupt financial industry, protection of the torturers, and waffling on cap and trade and health insurance reform that you don’t understand?
At least LBJ got the Civil Rights Act passed… and he sure as hell knew how to grab Congress by the cojones and make ‘em get HIS agenda passed… non of this bi-partisan make nice crap…
You ought to read Doris kearns goodwin’s bio of LBJ… and remember, Bill Moyers was his press secretary..
A flawed giant of American history….
Yes, we do need to overturn Supreme Court decisions that have interpreted the constitution to give the rights of individuals to corporation “legal persons.” Once that’s done, we can regulate corporate “speech” all we want, without infringing on individual freedom of speech.
If Obama bails out on the public option, I will not waste another vote on a Democratic candidate. Here that Rahm.
I will write in Ralph Nader even if it is in memorium.
Ralph you were right as always.
Agreed, Freedom of speech must be regulated. Corporate Speech, Political Speech must be censored and suppressed by the government. Only individual speech should ever be allowed.
Ha…I just sent OFA an email saying the exact same thing. Not one more cent from me until the bullshit stops.
We already censor some political speech. Foreigners cannot make political contributions. Yet a corporation can??Even one that might have foreign investors, CEOs, foreign investments that strongly influence their politics -e.g. if the run oil extraction in Saudi arabia, or own newspapers in Jerusalem) and others that certainly serve “foreign masters”.
Corporations can’t vote, run for office, aren’t born, aren’t “residents”, etc. In some ways your pet dog (which at least is a biological organism within the Mammalia) is more of an entity than a corporation. Yet one certainly can’t contribute to campaigns…but the other, an abstraction, can?
BTW The Supremes have long held that “commercial speech” is less favored than “political speech”- in my view what a corporation does is commercial speech…they are trying to make a buck, get contracts, sway government officials to help a commercial entity. That’s why they often make contributions to both candidates…to gain influence. It’s a sophisticated form of bribery.
What we really need to do is restrict political contributions and influence to citizens…not ephemeral groups of individuals that make up a corporate collective. Then we need to allow even-handed access to the organs of speech (papers, TV, radio) amongst citizens.