George Stephanopolous says that there aren’t enough Democratic votes in the Senate to pass a public option, something 77% of the country is in favor, and something Barack Obama campaigned on. No serious journalist is pointing out that this is weird.
Nobody except Bill Moyers that is, who appeared on Bill Maher’s show last night:
MOYERS: I don’t think the problem is the Republicans . . . .The problem is the Democratic Party. This is a party that has told its progressives — who are the most outspoken champions of health care reform — to sit down and shut up. That’s what Rahm Emanuel, the Chief of Staff at the White House, in effect told progressives who stood up as a unit in Congress and said: "no public insurance option, no health care reform."
And I think the reason for that is — in the time since I was there, 40 years ago, the Democratic Part has become like the Republican Party, deeply influenced by corporate money. I think Rahm Emanuel, who is a clever politician, understands that the money for Obama’s re-election will come from the health care industry, from the drug industry, from Wall Street. And so he’s a corporate Democrat who is determined that there won’t be something in this legislation that will turn off these interests. . . .
Money in politics — you’ve had in the last 30 years, money has flooded politics . .. the Supreme Court saying "money is free speech." It goes back to the efforts in the 19th Century to give corporations the right of personhood — so if you as a citizen have the right to donate to campaigns, then so do corporations. Money has flowed in such a flood into both parties that the Democratic Party gets a lot of its support from the very interests that — when the Republicans are in power — financially support the Republicans.
You really have essentially — except for the progressives on the left of the Democratic Party – you really have two corporate parties who in their own way and their own time are serving the interests of basically a narrow set of economic interests in the country — who, as Glenn Greenwald, who is a great analyst and journalist, wrote just this week: these narrow interests seem to win, determine the outcomes, no matter how many Democrats are elected, no matter who has their hands on the levers of powers, these narrow interests determine the outcomes in Washington, even when they have to run roughshod over the interests of ordinary Americans. I’m sad to say that has happened to the Democratic Party.
I’d rather see Barack Obama go down fighting for vigorous strong principled public insurance, than to lose with a [corporate-dominated] bill . . . . the insurers are winning. Everyone already knows the White House has made a deal with the drug industry — promising not to import cheaper drugs from Canada and Europe – promising not to use the government to negotiate for better prices — that deal has been cut . . .
There’s this fear that Barack Obama will become the Grover Cleveland of this era – Grover Cleveland was a good man, but he became a conservative Democratic President because he didn’t fight the powerful interests – people say Obama should be FDR – I’d much rather see him be Theodore Roosevelt –– Teddy Roosevelt loved to fight – … I think if Obama fought instead of really finessed it so much . . . I think it would change the atmosphere.
I’ll expand one point and say that Rahm’s goal is not just to keep corporate donations flowing to Obama in 2012. Remember, it was Axelrod who originally opposed cutting language out of the stimulus bill that would have restricted bonuses paid out by banks like AIG that were TARP recipients, and he eventually lost that battle to Geithner and Summers. Axelrod was worried about the political impact of such a move, which was then (unfairly) laid at Chris Dodd’s feet, and now threatens Dodd’s own reelection chances.
Rahm, former head of the DCCC, is a Clintonista who overlearned the lessons of 1994 when there was a 54 seat swing to the GOP in the House. He and other members of the Baucus Caucus are primarily focused on keeping the money of PhRMA and other stakeholer interests from funding a GOP resurgence in the House in 2010.
But to the larger point — yes, the battle over health care is the battle over who controls K Street. Rather than try to limit K Street’s influence, as Obama promised on the campaign trail, Rahm is trying to retake it for the Democrats. The strategic compromises he’s making threaten to turn Obama into Grover Cleveland, as Moyers says, and in the process make the Democratic Party as wildly popular as the GOP.
Remember, Rahm is the guy who threatened to cut off Democrats who ran against the war in 2006 and forced freshmen to cosponsor the anti-immigrant SAVE Act to innoculate themselves against nativist attacks in 2008. Progressives broke up Rahm’s Iraq dictum in 2006 when Ned Lamont beat Joe Lieberman in the primary running against the war, which liberated Democrats across the board to do so in 2006 and led to widespread victories. And Hispanic voters carried Obama across the line in 2008.
It’s an insular group who determine this beltway wisdom, and their near-worship of Rahm’s political acumen has quite nearly led the Democrats over a cliff time and time again. It persists despite all evidence to the contrary, and threatens political disaster for both Obama and the Democrats if it perverts real health care reform into little more than a bailout of K Street health care interests.





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I also suggest everyone watch Moyers own show on PBS from last night:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..watch.html
He really rips on Obama for breaking campaign promises(see the infamous Big Pharma deal).
and here is part 2:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..atch2.html
Watch the last 10 minutes of part 2!!
What Nelson said.
Anyone arguing that OB didn’t really campaign on this, yadda yadda yadda, especially needs to see that campaign ad from candidate Obama.
This is not 11-teen dimensional chess. It’s a sellout. Period.
FunnyWheelieDiva
Thanks Jane, Obama is in danger of becoming Grover Cleveland.
I confess I don’t understand him. If he tried to break the interests, the worst that could happen if he fails is that he could lose in 2012. What does he gain by staying in the Presidency for another term if the cost is to make them that much stronger? After all, he doesn’t really need the job, does he?
My bold Insular naw its an insane group running the opposite direction from Rahm on everything is good advice.
Does anyone else think that Rahm gets his ideas from a Karl Rove Blackberry message? I want just one of these MSM hack reporters to ask Rahm just where Obama and the Democratic Party would be if they had listened to his advice about Hispanic voters.
Obama should realize that Rahm is his Karl Rove wrong about everything policy wise but unable to steal him elections so then just what is the use of Rahm?
Really, if I thought Obama had it in him to use Rahm for a fall-guy on broken policy promises… But Obama doesn’t have it in him.
Never happen.
George does know we can attach it to the budget a straight up and down majority vote no filibuster right? We could even include a tax on the top 3% of the rich to pay for it then too.
Its funny a guy who worked in the Clinton White House would not know this.
I agree fall guy did occur to me but I also thought not going to happen.
I got a letter from the DNC the other week – the one with the fancy fridge magnet – and sent back the donation form with the note that I’ll donate to liberal and progressive candidates, but f*ck Rahm Emanuel and the Blue Dogs.
Poor Snuffles never thought about it that way, assuming he has any thoughts that aren’t pre-loaded into his brain.
I was the Demo nominee for a California Assembly seat in 1994; my campaign’s entire raison d’etre was campaign finance reform (yes, I got creamed by the Republican incumbent).
I said after the Congressional wipe-out that year, which many blamed on the failure of the Clinton health care proposals, that health care would be the issue that finally shoved people toward campaign finance reform.
Are we there yet?
Between the election and inauguration, I guessed that our mission to get Obama to the Left would entail raining down electoral fire on the BlueDawgs™. It never occurred to me that our best hope would be to separate and alienate him from his Chief of Staff.
Medicare costs have to go down reducing drug costs and getting medical bills more in line with what other countries pay will save the government money.
Letting a large pool of uninsured people spread disease unchecked until they are to sick to work will cost us money as soon as we get our next plague.
The idea behind National Healthcare is to find disease and isolate it before it spreads to far to be contained. Cure the sick guy with TB before he gets on a crowded plane.
Find the guy with Tamiflu resistant Swine Flu before he goes to work at a factory hog farm. Healthcare for the rich only does not work if there is an antibiotic resistant, no vaccine yet disease getting people sick.
Healthcare for the rich does not work if the people who slaughter your food, prepare your food, clean your house, take care of your kids don’t have healthcare and bring you the disease.
George probably does get BlackBerry messages from Karl like Rahm.
I sure am. Without it, we can’t meaningfully address ANY of the big problems, first & foremost health insurance.
I’ve tried to bring this up within MoveOn, but it’s always about individual issues: environment, health care reform, military/security, banking/finance, etc. What do ALL of these things have in common? Big corporate entrenched interests buying off our so-called representatives.
We do need to cover this subject more but we are working on it.
It painfully clear that we now have what amounts to legal bribery and implied if not outright intimidation by special interests – private sector interests. These guys with their deep pockets have the entire congress and the executive branch at their beck and call.
Moyers is spot on about how money has destroyed democracy.
Nothing will change until the money changers are driven from the temple. Nothing.
Rahm Emmanuel is outsmarting himself. He might be attracting some corporate $$, but he’s pissing off the base, the worker bees who got Obama elected.
The “money is free speech” reference is quite timely.
In 11 more days, the Supreme Court will hear re-arguments on Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission.
Transcript of oral arguments from March:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/…..08-205.pdf
The specific questions for September 9th:
http://origin.www.supremecourt…..0205qp.pdf
More on the case:
http://www.abajournal.com/maga…..w_changer/
http://www.scotuswiki.com/inde…..Commission
To paraphrase Mencken’s addition to Ecclesiastes, I don’t believe in “money as free speech”, but that’s the way to bet.
~~~ModNote: The first two links in this comment are direct-to-PDF.~~~
Who cares about a base. The people care about real improvement in their day to day lives.
This money thing means little people are asked to ante up constantly. What is this money going for?” Message – advertisement – campaign coffers.
Politicians do not need or should ask for a penny from the people. They are paid a salary, and all their other needs INCLUDING running for office should be financed by the governement.
Get money out of politics – totally.
Service is service. Do your thing and step aside and let others do theirs.
Yes agreed I thought Rahm was a dope but I thought a lazy harmless dope just looking for a job with a fancy title. He seems though to want to run the WH behind Obama’s back he is like Darth but more obvious.
Chicago Pols are normally much smoother Rahm is an indictment waiting to happen I can’t believe that someone who runs his own agenda behind Obama’s back so obviously has not crossed the line and done something illegal yet.
I also can’t believe that anyone as obvious as him won’t be found out soon.
I’m not sure I thought he was a dope, but rather such a twisted fuck that he would probably either do himself in quickly or piss off his boss by big-footing the policy process. I just never dreamed that Obama would go along, or would be approving of this continuation of politics running the policy process (like ChimpCo) instead of the other way around.
Don’t get me wrong – I never thought Obama was Liberal enough to give in easily on policy. And his campaign has definitely not transferred to his White House comm operations. They are a mess.
Rove’s example is irresistible to the CoS, I suppose.
I wonder how many older Fox News viewers are in nursing homes or getting hospice care from low wage workers who may or may not have health insurance not that it matters there is no vaccine for swine flu available yet.
And no evidence that the vaccine will be effective against this particular strain. We do know that some strains are already resistant to Tamiflu.
But with no National Healthcare system we can’t track and isolate sick people until they are to sick to go to work anymore because even people with healthcare don’t want to go to the Doctor until they are really sick.
I thought he was:)
I can agree on that
CoS?
Who is in charge of Farms under Obama? I expect that person to feed their kids pig meat just like the British Minister did when Mad Cow broke out in England right before England started killing infected cows.
Well, it’s very smart of Rahm to be thinking ahead like this.
And as a voter who pays attention, I can assure Rahm that an Obama that has continued way too many of Bush’s policies, and an Obama that has been deeply disappointing on health care reform, is an Obama that will not get my vote.
Now, the money thing, it’s very nice. But if Obama keeps on going like he has been so far, I expect there will be quite a few people who feel like I (already) do.
And I live in an “important” state (fwiw).
My take on campaign finance reform. It’s gonna take a Constitutional Amendment defining the limits on the powers of corporations privileged by limited liability. Limited liability is a grant of government privilege. The government gets to determine the responsibilities of those receiving that privilege. In the absence of a Constitutional amendment, the assertion will be that freedom of association combined with freedom of speech allows corporation to buy megaphones. And that those megaphones are protected from responsibility for accuracy by freedom of the press. It is a knotty problem, but given the current SCOTUS, I think the only way to put it to rest is a Constitutional amendment. In case you think this is a glib proposal, my response to this necessity is “Oh, Joy, having to deal with all of the state legislatures”. But I don’t see any other way out of the mess.
Chief of Staff.
Rove (proudly and openly) turned the White House policy operation into a political office – Bush-alum have talked about it a lot – so the policy operation is subservient to the political office. And Rahm seems quite happy to manage Obama’s White House the same way.
Former Governor Vilsack of Iowa
Now that my congresswoman, Jackie Speier, has demonstrated that she shouldn’t be on the list of representatives pledging to defend the public option, I’m despairing pretty hard. I was willing to forgive all the backtracking on everything else if real health insurance reform could get passed. I was even willing to swallow hard and look the other way on the administration’s failure to hold the Bush-Cheney Torture State to account for its crimes, I’ve been waiting and hoping for so long on health insurance reform.
No more. No more. I’m all out of caring what happens to these two-bit snakes. Let them all go up in flames.
Still available: ‘Get Disappointed by Somebody New’
It said perfectly what I thought about Obama. I just wish it was wrong.
Jackie is my critter, too.
If she will not clarify her position and stand hard and fast, she will do damage to herself.
And quite frankly, as much as I prefer her over the late Tom Lantos, I can imagine him gladly and staunchly getting behind a strong PO.
Thank you for going to the event.
If that’s the only path that is very depressing.
We may need a new constitution because this one doesn’t see to be fit for our times. The electoral college is absurd, the senate is not democratic. States rights on many issues is absurd if we are to be one nation. And we need to reconsider the power of corporations and their status. How are so much of the commons given to corporations? This is not serving the needs of the people.
On Obama’s selection of Rahm way back when: I knew that was a bad omen. So, here I am, a man without a Party. Meanwhile, back in Oregon, we’ve got Ron Wyden (an otherwise decent and honorable man) blathering on public radio about bipartisanship. Still. He doesn’t seem to be able to admit what he’s worked for for years has been snuffed out by the Republicans. A man in denial. He’s our Charlie Brown, still trying to kick the football.
It would be sad to witness, if the stakes weren’t so high, and the potential devastation of our commonwealth so apparent to those of us who understand what Moyers, and Jane, are saying here.
What’s the deal with these critters unable to do and say what it is that they know is right and what their constituents want? Are they afraid to have campaign funds cut off? Or a well funded challenge be mounted against them if they don’t do the bidding of the corporate interests? What is the reason they give? Saying that it doesn’t have the votes is totally dumb – that only allows them and others not to vote for the measure.
What a disgrace.
No kidding wrt Wyden. I am shocked to see where he is on this.
Boy, this is the part I would have highlighted:
To me, he’s talking about a public insurance health bill, not a corporate dominated bill with some or other public option. I’m pretty sure that is what he is saying.
The Health Insurance Industry is one of only a few of what is left of Bush’s “Service Industry Economy”. They are not only fighting for their market share, they are fighting for the lives. We the people, must shout longer, louder, and more determined. America’s Health should not be a profit for service Industry! Period!
Scarecrow diary promoted!
Fred Hiatt Wants to Know How Well Torture Works, But We Need a Volunteer
The people have lost almost every battle in the war for justice and fairness in America. It took almost 200 yrs for women to get the right to vote and end jim crow. The labor movement has been on the run since Regan.
We have seen remarkably little progress for 40 years for a country with such wealth and talent. Oh yea we got teflon, PCs sat TV, GPS and cell phones.
Thanks for highlighting this episode, Jane. When I watched it I was amazed by the smooth care with which Moyers lathered the truth onto the discussion. Maher, to his credit, kept pretty quiet. I had goosebumps.
Bill Moyer calls it like it is. He loves the truth and in this interview describes succinctly what is actually happening.
Who says it is behind Obama’s back. This is way out for Obama, if he wants a way out; watch this: http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7632
How about electing politicians with integrity and hold them accountable for their votes. People willing to circumvent the law will seek every opportunity to do so.
I was happy to see Moyers agree with Greenwald but within minutes he had walked it back and said that Democrats needed a spine. It seems like the realisation that both Republicans and Democrats are one corporate party with interests opposed to that of the general public (aka “dime’s worth of difference”) is one that terrifies most people so they do anything to ignore it.
Well Mr Moyers which is it? Are the Democrats screwing up health care because they are just like the Republicans and don’t want it to succeed, or are they screwing up health care because of their cowardice? You can’t believe both. Are the Democrats traitors or are they cowards? Are the Democrats cunning enemies or are they incompetent allies?
It makes a huge difference in knowing how to go about tackling them.
I think most people in their hearts know it is the former but cannot accept it in their heads. To accept that the Democrats are enemies throws the blame for the current situation back on us. Why do we support people who we know, or ought to know, are the enemy? If we pretend that Democrats are too lazy or too cowardly or too incompetent (or too busy playing 11 dimensional chess) to succeed then it is their fault not ours. We did our part by electing them, right?
If we go into this thing knowing that Democrats are the enemy it probably means working for a third party but at the very least it means being savvy with how we deal with them. Get guarantees and deals — instead of acting like love struck fanboys. Right now Obama and the Democrats are reneging on what little they promised. There must be consequences for that.
Thank you again, Jane. An excellent spotlight on the naked Emperor whose subjects and court refuses to acknowledge. But, we need to keep pushing.
This is Obama’s answer to the current healthcare debate: http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7632
Then there’s always the interim solution – term limits followed by campaign finance reform
While I have not seen the interview yet, and will not until later this evening, I don’t think that these are mutually exclusive. We are talking about Democrats, many of whom rode Obama’s coattails into or back into office, and they are taking their cues from their President. He is, after all, afraid of changing the system for both those reasons, too.
But as I said, I have not yet seen the interview.
A real lion of the people is laid to rest today and Rahm continue to suck air. Somethings wrong with the universe.
Get off term limits. With term limits there never would have been a Ted Kennedy. Why don’t you drop the pie in the sky feel good solution that has been a lynch pin of Republican strategy for the last 20 years.
Fuck Rahm and George Stephanopolus. Let’s get back to the Democratic Party of Howard Dean.
I think it will wash the place clean and we need that
I am serious. There is nothing inherently wrong with a reasonable term limit. And teddy would have moved into other things since he was devoted to service to the people.
Campaign finance reform will wash the cesspool clean. Term limits will merely flush the toilet. There is such a thing as institutional memory that has far more value than you, the Republicans and libertarians give credit to.
Your naivete is beginning to show. How old are you, 17?
I always make a point of letting the DNC, DCCC, DSCC et al. know that I’ll be contributing through ActBlue, not giving them the money that they can dole out to Heath Schuler, Mike Ross, Joe Lieberman and other so-called “democrats.”
Bill Maher was when he said that Democrats had not won an election, not by default – as a rejection of Republican blunders, since 1964.
Great idea! Let the poobahs know the rank and file are sick of their bullshit.
I am 62 if you must know how old are you?
Institutional memory is BS. laws are laws and the procedure of government is not that complex nor should it be or rely on “institutional memory”
Then think and act your age!
Rahm [and Obama] figure the Left has nowhere else to go, so he [they] can afford to ignore them [us] or piss ‘em off.
I don’t necessary think — or encourage — people to “go Green” or whatever, but we sure can sit on our hands [and cell phones] during a national campaign, and contribute ONLY to good candidates.
Hopefully they’ll see some difference.
how old are you. I think and act as my education and experience inform me.
Obama campaigned on changing the system. He was able to enlist millions of people, young and old, based on a promise to change the system, end the war in Iraq and provide healthcare reform with a government option. He also promised transparency. Well, he a backtracking on everything and healthcare is turning out to be the biggest swindle of all. I can’t believe that he does not realize that the people he gathered to support him are not the typical voters. He ignited a passion for the possible in people. This kind of voter will bolt in a heartbeat if they feeled betrayed. This is not the kind of supporter that says, “oh well” and hangs in there. This is the kind of voter than will move on in the search for a genuine candidate that is true to their word. Obama can hang onto all the corporate cash he can raise and still loose the people. Surely, he is not that dumb.
waiting
It seems that Rahm just can’t keep his mouth shut, and I wondered when, if ever, he’s going to get his comeuppance.
The guy just can’t stop blabbing, and while doing so, he inadvertently makes abundantly clear that he has no principles he’d permanently adhere to, no position that he’d not abandon for something else, heck anything else, with imagined better possibilites, and no “friends” he won’t punk for other temporarily more advantageous-appearing accomplices.
Shorter Rahmbo: “The ego that never sleeps, the ego that always speaks!
He’s cynical enough to know that the alternative – voting for Rs is not gonna happen. He is happy to be the lessor of two evils and that gives him room to walk back on his promises
Well, it would seem your education and experience are lacking and you are therefore ill informed.
waiting for your age… Blue
What’s going on with Widen? I always thought he was a decent guy. Is it stupidity or venality?
let’s hear your bona fides blue
I do not believe he is that dumb either.
It is easy, and perhaps grossly naive, to imagine him cocooned by staff. But his dissonance on nearly every issue defies my hopes.
Who are you asking? You didn’t hit “reply” to pose your question, so it’s hard to tell to whom it is addressed.
Tell that to the people of Nebraska and Nevada. Both states have term limits in place for their state legislatures, and guess what happened?
Lobbyists became even more powerful because lawmakers have less time to absorb all the policy that they have to handle, and thus rely on lobbyists to “fill in the gaps”.
Mr Blue asked my aged and essentially said I am dumb … lovely and I asked his age and education. He doesn’t reply
Lobbying by for profits interests should also be outlawed
there’s many fixes that can be applied to our broken system til it can be re built
Blue is right I may be dumb, but I ain’t stoopid
Perhaps bluetoe2 and sandero should get a room and do 99 hands of 7-card..
This place is broken in the big and little places, and while every idea is probably better than what has befallen this country in recent years, none is better than another if we refuse to try any of them.
I am still open to many suggestions, as long as long as we simply refuse to win.
Not if the fixes are piecemeal – every time you fix one part and move on to the next, the part you just fixed breaks down in some new way.
Institute term limits? Lobbyists gain influence.
Outlaw lobbying by for-profit interests? Results in even more uninformed and ill-prepared legislatures passing bad laws.
Let’s leave things as they are!
Why even have a legislature?
Lisa Derrick is upstairs!
Reading Rainbow Canceled Just When Glenn Beck Needs It Most
I didn’t say that, but the approach you’re advocating is not effective in either the short-term or the long.
Said you were dumb? Never said that but it would seem perhaps thin skinned. I’ve enjoyed and appreciated many of your posts when you analyze economic forces at play, really quite insightful but I just can’t abide by your notion that term limits is part of the answer to the cesspool that is Washington, D.C. It’s naive and a tool the right has used in states around the country to weaken the Democratic party. My bona fides? BA and Masters, Adjunct Professor in a college of architecture and design.
Jane, I appreciate what you are trying to do, you’ve stuck very close to Hacker’s PO formula. Unfortunately, I don’t see other bloggers and activists doing that. Digby said it’s enough to have the word “public” in the policy. Others seem to think the public option from the HELP bill, which expects zero enrolled by 2019 per CBO, or HR 3200, which expects 9 to 10 million enrolled by 2019 per CBO, are enough. Your public option sounds more like this guys:
http://blogs.chicagotribune.co…..rance.html
Which I do think most Americans and their employers would switch to rather quickly. When you advocate for public option, would it be possible to be a little clearer, like the public wants an “Medicare-like federal health insurance program open day one to anyone who chooses it.” I know it’s not exactly the fastest soundbite, but maybe your cohorts would catch on and push for more, if every time you said “public option” you were more specific. Also, in the article I link to the writer says no subsidies for private insurance. I think this is extremely important because otherwise we are just socializing the profits of for-profit companies.
We’ve rightly worried about what Eisenhower called the “military-industrial complex.” Who would’ve thought we’d drop our “guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the” Wall Street-corporate-congressional complex. As Moyer rightly states, this is what will drive this country down the drain.
Don’t you mean the Wall Stree-corporate-congressional-military-media complex?
I wish I knew. It’s not venality, though. I suspect an unwillingness to recognize the Republicans have destroyed what he’s been working for so passionately for quite a few years. He prided himself on working with his Republican colleague in the Senate, Gordon Smith.
Basically, a man in denial.
Here us President Obama. Health care for all now. Take a firm stand. Make the fight. Senator Kennedy deserves no less.
The Edward M. Kennedy Memorial Universal American Health Care Plan.
Teddycare for short.
You and only you can make this happen. You may have to fire Rahm. You will have to use force. Only the power of the presidency can bring right-wing Democrats back into the fold. It will be your victory or your failure. Take the risk. That’s what strong presidents do.
But please, please don’t sit back and read about what happens in the papers.
After reading about the Rahm Emanuel’s plan it would seem to me that Progressives should join together and “Pledge-in-Mass” to abstain from the next Presidential Election if the current Corporate mind-set continues. Without the Progressive Vote the Republicans would take the White House. It’s better to have a Real Republican in there than a Pretend One.
Thanks, BT. I too am tired of the “term limits” bs.
I swear, if these assholes screw this up, I will vote a straight Repub ticket the next chance I get. And I don’t care who’s running, or how stupid and out to lunch they are. They’ve pretty much disillusioned me already with the way they have given away MY money to the fucking idiots who got us in this economic mess in the first place, AND they voted to let those assholes tap my phone, my emails, and whatever other PRIVATE information of mine they can get their grubby mitts on WITHOUT A WARRANT.
I’m going to vote for the most clueless Repubs I can find. You think we got troubles now wait until the REAL idiots get in there. Actually, they’ll probably just blend right in and you won’t be able to tell the difference.
Thanks.
I hear your frustration, but let me just share a tale with you.
It was 1968. LBJ had decided not to run for re-election. Hubert Humphrey was the Democratic candidate, but he’d been a weasel on opposing the war [Vietnam]. Nixon was the Republican candidate.
I, young & on fire, voting in my second election, thought much the same as you. However, I had the convenient alternative of voting for Ron Dellums in the “Peace & Freedom” party, so that’s what I did.
The rest is history, and pretty crap-o history at that. [My birthday is June 17, day [not year, though] of the Watergate break-in.]
But I do sympathize: at least with Bush a large percentage of the population KNEW he was evil. Obama, Rahm, the Blue Dogs and the rest of the Cowardly Democrats manage to exude a faint whiff of being “better” than the Republicans. It’s hard to organize against them.
I’ve met Ron Dellums. He’s a typical politician and very sly. That’s not said in a positive way. I also saw the first television debate with Kennedy and Nixon, and I pegged him as a weasel then too. He proved it.
My point is that if these jerks can’t do the right thing , and this applies all the way up to the top Mr Obama, then they should be on the streets without a job. Like a lot of people I know.
No offense to you MM.
Add Michigan to that list. It’s been a disaster except to the lobbyists, and the republican party who were finally able to unseat some very popular Dems. Once in the majority, they gerrymandered almost as ridiculously as Texas.
What a great tribute that would be to Sen. Kennedy’s memory. (/snark)
It was not a coincidence that Axelrod was the front man on the campaign, and Rahm was super low-key. How many would have reconsidered supporting the president if they had known Rahm would pop up two days later as COS. To paraphrase G W bush, fool me once… Obama knows that if Rahm is tied to his 2012 efforts, then people will be looking at their shoes trying to figure out what the smell is.
The purpose of a corporation is to enhance profits for shareholders. That’s what they do. To expect them to do anything else is lunacy.
Rahm can’t see outside this worldview.
The fact that Moyers even made this statement shows that the veil is coming off the assumptions that got us into this mess.
Anyone who argues that corporate health care is going to pursue any objective other than maximizing profits for shareholders is either an idiot or a corporate attorney.
Sorry, but what are you referring to? The only formula I’m aware of Jane “sticking to” is the set of criteria in the FDL whip pledge, which is aligned with the criteria from HCAN, the organization that is cheerleading both the Senate HELP bill and HR 3200, which you accurately note are crap. No single Hacker PO “formula” exists; his latest position papers walk back substantially from his earliest proposals, which are as off-the-table as single payer.
Jane is fighting an admirable fight to prevent the further degradation of the crap currently on offer, in the hope that it can be strengthened and expanded so as to ultimately lead to something like, or as good as, single payer. I can respect such a position but consider it faith-based compared with the assessment that even the strongest legislation now under consideration will create convoluted and wasteful structures that not only won’t lead to a profit-purged financing system but will need to be dismantled at added cost and disruption to make way for such.
The article your comment links to makes no referece to Jacob Hacker but rather takes one to a column that links in turn to a Nate Silver piece on new research demonstrating that most people, including most Democrats, have no bloody idea what the public option is. Only 37% of total respondents (and only 41% of Democrats) could distinguish an accurate description of an HR 3200-style public option from British-style socialized medicine, regional co-ops, or don’t-know. This piece is truly essential reading; it demonstrates what critics like Robert Kuttner have said from the get-go: that the vaunted 76% public support for the public option is vaporware. (Here’s the definition of public option in the poll: “a government-funded insurance company that competes with private insurers to offer health coverage at market rates.” Having just attempted to slog in detail through HR 3200, I support its accuracy.)
That brings us full circle to Bill Moyers. Two weeks ago on his show, Kathleen Hall Jamieson made a point we don’t hear often enough:
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National surveys have shown roughly 60% support among the population at large and physicians specifically for a national health insurance program like Medicare being made available to all Americans, with about 50% supporting such a proposal even if it raises their taxes. I think it’s fair to say that most Americans have a clue as to what Medicare is vs a public option.
Hats off to Bill Moyer!
I thought the same thing when Bush was reelected in 2004. Geez, the people voted for the war, why are these people protesting? And why are the news people not reminding people at every turn that the voters voted for the war.
What?? You’re telling me people’s opinions change? No, that isn’t possible.
Aside from that, the public option doesn’t fix anything. The cost savings would be minimal. The CBO has already said the plan would increase costs. And you all know that when it comes to the government, the cost is ALWAYS higher than they say.
If people want free health care, which is really what they want, not reform, there are other ways to do it. Better ways that don’t put the government in complete, eventual (as that is where people behind this want to steer this) control of our health–meaning our lives.
If doctors have not watched the pressure put on bail out employees, and don’t think a similar pressure will be put on them, they are dumb. The big difference between Canada, England and the US is the in the US, as exemplified on the forum, there are many busy bodies who if they can get some leverage on you, don’t mind using it.
People here love to get in other people’s business, much more than Canada or England. They will abuse the power if they get it. Doctors will find all sorts of things being dictated to them.
Why do you need to live in that kind of house?
Why should you get to take Wednesday’s off?
You really don’t need that second car. Take the bus.
Do you really need that helper in your office?
We don’t think you need more than one vacation.
On the other hand, being government employees, eventually, like in the UK, they can join the SEIU. THEN, they can send big donations to Democratic politicians who will be voting on their wages and benefits, and those pols will do their bidding.
Just like in my town where retired city and county workers are getting 6 figure pensions while none of the taxpayers do.
Before the election I was a big Hillary supporter and got beaten up by my daughter and her friends for it. Told them at the time that besides Obama being a good speaker he appeared to be a weak sister and if pressure was placed on him he would fold like a cheap beach chair. Now it would appear that I was Right looking at the way he has handled Health Care. Well if the polls are correct that 77% of the people want single payer or a public option then it’s bye bye in 2012 for him and bye bye for congress in 2010. What we need are leaders not a bunch of bribe takers that we have now
I am so tired of hearing the Repuk’s and repeated by the MSM at how bad Health Care is in countries that have Universal Coverage. However, if that system is so bad why arn’t their citizens attempting to change it to a system like we have, JUST ASKING
Oh wow. Another post where the message to ourselves is, “We hate ourselves, we hate ourselves, rah rah rah!”.
Oh…well, I try to make lemons out of lemonade. Then this is all for naught, then, because i don’t think the majority of Americans, the 80% who make 13% of the income in this country, can wait for a public option that’s less crappy, while their quality of life continues to be ripped to shreds.
Your view is honorable, as I wrote, but the more you look at the legislation, the more you realize that to the degree any good will come of HR 3200, it will come from provisions other than the paltry public option.
I’m with Bill Moyers, in a passage from the above interview that Jane, perhaps tellingly, did not transcribe:
The public options in the bills now on the table come nowhere close to this description. Rather, Moyers comes awfully close here to the position that Jane and others regularly denigrate as “single payer or nothing.”
There will be a House vote for Conyers (with Weiner) HR Bill 676 in the fall. Single payer Medicare for all, everybody in, nobody out, crap-less non-trillion dollar, non-Trojan horse one. Calling reps each night. I think it is worth the effort to demand our unalienable right to healthcare. To stop the corporate raping of the US taxpayer. Other countries are publishing articles about the anti-empathy and inhumane legislation for US citizens with shock and awe. This country was once envied. Now it confuses and solicits pity for its poor and now poorer citizenry from abroad.
Hey progressives, there are death panels NOW in this country. And they are created by health care and your legislators that doom 22,000 a year, 60 a day, to die from inadequate health care and every 30 seconds for another citizen to go into bankruptcy.
We get that but the stubbornly obtuse rest of the citizenry doesn’t and is not being told that by a corporate media and a bribed government leadership. So we shrug and not fight like hell for the best and the most deserved if one believes the declaration of independence and the constitution pre-gutting?
Hey, we got some rubber tree plants to move and I believe it can be done, by us ants. We ain’t got the leadership, but why don’t we have the outrage and passion and energy against the monstrous will of the corporate powers who will keep on raping us if we don’t stop them?
Yeah, I could see Lantos signing the pledge. Lantos peeved me for supporting the PATRIOT Act and not fighting against the Iraq war, but at least he had a spine.
Oh, I agree completely. I support improved and enhanced Medicare for All, but if others are going to only focus on some kind of “public option” whatever the hell that is?, I would prefer they get specific, otherwise when any crap bill with pub. opt. passes, lots of people will think the battle was won even though the war was lost.
Yes. We don’t need a trojan horse to get what we all deserve, we need someone to for once but the majority of this country, the little guys, ahead of Wall Street.
The value of institutional memory shows itself in public servants like Louis Fisher who has written some brilliant books on presidential war powers, sharing power, presidential war powers, and other constitutional issues as they relate to separation of powers.
One of the most insidious things Bush et al did was to appoint partisan ideologues to career positions within the bureaucracy, perches from which they can shit on the rest of us for years. Kind of like having hundreds of Linda Tripps in civil service protected jobs which they never were qualified for but were appointed to only because of their political/religious affiliations.
That’s nasty and suggestive based on nothing.
Glenn Greenwald transcribed a particular piece, I copied the Moyers quote in its entirety from Glenn’s blog. Which is easy to see — just follow the link.
I want to be clear that I would support a solid incrementalist bill if one existed and if the legislators carrying it forward could be honest about its intended trajectory. And I’d be happy with virtually any of the ex-US systems in which private health insurance companies are either banned or barred from profiting from the denial of benefits. Single-payer Medicare for All is one such system, and the one that I advocate when marching, because “Universal Highly Regulated Nonprofit Insurance for All” does not fall trippingly off the tongue.
But with Obamacare, the best we can hope is that the President is lying or mistaken when he swears that the public option will never transition to single payer. Counting on his reneging on his reneging on single payer is too big a leap for me.
Practically speaking, of course I want to get as many Representatives as possible on board with HR 676. But it’s not going to pass. Barring a truly vast improvement (and simplification) of the exchange and public option in the current bills, along with greatly expanded and more explicit provisions for industry regulation, I would sooner see a bill pass that includes the Kucinich amendment and extorts as many insurance industry concessions as possible (dropping mandates and banning recissions and preexisting condition denials) in exchange for our reluctant (heh) abandonment of the public option, which we know is next to worthless in its current form but which the right wing, to our advantage, has portrayed as Cuba incarnate.
Then on to Phase II: Medicare for All, bitches! This time, hopefully, with some moveon bucks.
Well, what do you think of what Moyers does advocate for? Which even in your quote, “I’d rather see Barack Obama go down fighting for vigorous strong principled public insurance, than to lose with a [corporate-dominated] bill . . . . the insurers are winning” he argues for.
Well, I don’t support that because we simply do not have the political capacity to regulate insurers the way European countries do. Further, we have a massive population and it would require a huge bureaucracy to provide oversight to such a regulatory system. That said, I would also support a tightening of regulations of insurers, to HR3200 or the HELP bill. Exchanges are expansive, ours in MA cost each premium holder 3.5-5.5 percent in premium costs to salaries for the staff of the Connector alone. Also, I think mandating people purchase insurance guarantees your insured goes up, while not coming near guaranteeing health care needs are met. What so often goes missing in the debate is health insurance does not equal health care. Health insurance is not a health care instrument. It’s a financial instrument. Right now we finance health care for those under 65 primarily through private, for-profit third party payers, and that in essence is the problem. There really is no other country in the industrialized world that finances basic health care through employer-based, for-profit, third party payers. And, the bills, as presented, paltry public option or not, do not come near fixing the issue. It is the financial instrument. The best financial instrument we have for paying for basic health care in a way that lowers the household economic burden of care, expands access of care to the most people, and incentivizes rationing based on need rather than wealth is Medicare, not only because the federal government does not need to turn a profit, but because it does not need to function like even a non-profit business, ie no marketing, advertising, etc.. It just needs to pay the bills. I would like to see Obama stick with the regulations, drop the mandate and improve and expand Medicare to those 55-65, or kids, or both.
Well, that’s why I wrote “perhaps tellingly.” The fact remains that if, say, “billmo” had written that line as a comment, he would very likely have gotten lukasiaked as a purity troll.
So much of our problems come from a supreme court decision that said the corporations have 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech and that money is speech under our constitution. This decision had allowed corporations to basically take over our government. Until that decision is reversed, nothing will change.That decision was the death knell to representative government in this country.
He’s talking about deals made in the Finance Committee Bill. Which, as he says, he got from Glenn’s piece, which Glenn got from my piece.
Do I have a comment on it? You mean other than what I said, which Moyers is agreeing with?
Yeah, that’s going to happen. MoveOn is going to oppose the White House and put a bunch of money in to single payer.
Is Rahm the President or is Rahm a servant of the President? Sometimes when I read Jane Hamsher I get confused…
The focus on Rahm’s machinations seems to be at times an attempt to not criticize Obama for the health care debacle.
No, he’s talking about fighting for vigorous public insurance, and not the very corporate bill Congress is developing. How can you not hear that? Do you really see Moyers as talking about no more than supporting a public option inside a very corporate-friendly bill? Unbelievable.
Well, until advocacy groups get back to advocating for policy, no matter the President in the WH, then they are pretty worthless as activists. You can support and agitate for Medicare for All without “opposing the President”.
I believe that’s what they thought they were doing when they signed on to the HCAN coalition. In the summer of 2008, Jacob Hacker was openly pitching his plan as a gradualist but straightforward path to single payer. That was before Obama became president and swore on a stack of bibles that Obamacare is not a path to single payer, and he is speaking the truth with regard to current legislation.
As I’ve noted before, people who believe HR 3200 (much less the Senate HELP bill) will get us to single payer have no standing in accusing others of magical thinking.
Right masslib, even Rachel Maddow seems not to realize that the Senate HELP and HR 3200 bills are terribly inadequate. She seems to believe they will give every American the opportunity to buy into Medicare.
masslib, not just someone. For once we need a President to do that. My God, have we had one who would that since Lyndon Johnson?
Jane, it may be far-fetched to expect that. But if Move-on doesn’t do that it won’t get another dollar from all the folks like me who were previously supporting it. Because Move-on is apparently quite happy to go the mat for HR 3200 and/or Senate HELP, I’m quite happy to look at other Progressive organizations to support. I don’t know how many people like me there are out there, but I’m ready to “move on” to organizations that share my beliefs about health insurance reform more closely than Move-on does.
Right now, I no longer trust the President, and will “oppose him” on all sorts of issues. His financial bailout of Wall Street at the expense of Main Street, his compromise on the stimulus, on the cap-and-trade bill, his antics on the health insurance reform, his lack of support for accountability on torture, and his lack of effort on establishing the principle that the President and the Executive Branch are not above the law, are all too much for me. He’s going to have to change course across the board to win back my trust.
ralphbon, yes, they won’t get us to single payer; but even worse, when people find out that even the feeble PO in these bills won’t be available until 2013, I think the Democrats are going to be laughed out of their majority in the House and will also lose seats in the Senate. Waiting four years to make the mechanism that’s supposed to control cost inflation in health insurance doesn’t pass the laugh test.