Democrats think the public option is necessary, but as for Steny and his friends “We’ll have to see”?

Is Steny suggesting that he’s NOT a Democrat?

/s

I think.

These are the words of Rahm – I will bet good money that he called Steny (his blue dog boy) and told him to get in front of Nancy and them damn Progressives.

Well, nyceve and slinkerwink were right the ‘fight’ is coming and it is going to be a doozy.

If they kill the public option, then we must make them kill the individual mandate.

There are some 5,525 people who’ve taken a stand to support the Defenders of the Public Option with $327,827.

This is how you get Rahm’s attention: voters and money.

You are absolutely right: this fight is going to be a doozy indeed.

“Mr Hoyer? There’s some guy named ‘Wynn’ calling for you? He says you asked him for a wake-up call”

Meant to include the “They Took The Pledge” link at Blue America’s fundraising page.

Didn’t Hoyer just get back from Israel where he engaged in a major suck up to that country’s new fascist government? Well, at least he’s consistent, being a suck up I mean.

Between Hoyer and Reid, it is a wonder that the Democrats find a reason to get out of bed in the morning.

Then comes the question: Will the White House let the Blue Dog Democrats do this or will they go after the Progressives in the House to support the bill’s passage without a public option in it?

Do you have to take more than 15 seconds to know the answer to this question?

“many other important parts of healthcare legislation”

Would he please list these “many other important parts” for me? How does he define “important”? ’cause I’m pretty sure that this bill does the following four things:
1. creates the PO
2. imposes individual and employer mandates
3. limits ability to deny coverage
4. increases taxes on rich people

Without cost-growth containment (2) and (3) don’t work. Total fail. So without (1), which is the enabling mechanism for a new cost-setting mechanism (the public option), we have zero reform and… a tax increase! Gee. so all this was just a fancy way to get a tax increase passed, Steny?

2 works without 1,3 and 4.

so, what, 47 million people get an individual mandate to buy insurance they won’t be able to afford in a few years, with deductibles that they have no hope of paying today and which will only explode further, because there’s no working cost-growth containment mechanism (competition with an effective pubilc plan)? And with costs going up at 9% a year, we’ll soon be adding another 50 million to that 47 million. Mandate without cost-containment is no reform. The math just doesn’t work.

… and we’re off. It’s on. Hoyer has set the terms. Let’s rumble.

all we can do is call, write letters, send money to the anyone but steny foundation, and i will, but im feeling really really bad about all this right now. im sure thats what they expect. the 1% always wins in the U.S.A Inc. I want to know if progressives are going to hold together. Remember how we all excuriated Ralph Nader??? Some of us are still excuriating Dean. they think we WANT to be lied to, and im not sure they are wrong.

public option would be tossed overboard as an essential part of the package.

Sounds like a mutiny by the crew,not a hijacking by lobbyist pirates.

and they will have the justification to allow ER’s to turn people away. prepare to die on their front porch.

the crew ARE lobbyist pirates

No, (2) doesn’t work by itself.

(2) might (but only might) work together with strict regulatory reform of the health insurance industry. That reform would eliminate recissions, ban denial for pre-existing conditions, require community-based actuarial ratings, impose uniform coverage requirements and regulate rates.

Steny flexing his muscles against Nancy? He must really hate it that a woman has the job to which he feels entitled. He is just detestable.

Fight for it you fucking coward! God I hate this asshole!

“WAKE UP PEEPEL” hehehe..sorry,

Lets see… the Speaker one thing one day, the Leader a contradiction the next. The White House here and there. Fools all and looking so.

Bets too the progressive caucus will roll pledge or not. Charlie Cook saying the Democrats have lost “control of the debate.”

77% supporting the public option and the great minority (blue dogs) win the day? May I say the Democratic leadership sucks and that very well may include the lack of leadership from the White House.

actually, even then I don’t think it does. Even if you simply wiped out health insurers, you’d reduce that what is now a 17% of GDP industry (say that corresponds to 17 cents on the dollar), to a 13.5 cent on the dollar industry. For that 17 or 13.5 cents, we get today 7-8 cents in real service (the same level of care other OECD countries have), and the 13.5 cents will still continue to grow at 9% a year, while the 7-8 cents will stay roughly constant. It just won’t work. solerso’s right. (2) by itself means a lot of people dying on their porches.

Until 7-8 cents worth of services actually cost 7-8 cents, and stays there, this system remains broken. So who’s going to tell the hotshot surgeons and the hospital and pharmco execs that they all need to take 97% pay cuts, probably retroactively? This type of structural reform requires a workable cost containment mechanism – true competition with a single government industry price-setter and the insurers stressed enough that they’re put into a position where they’ll have to find and wring out all the waste. And price-setter is the strong public option. Either that, or prepare to nationalize the whole system, and I don’t just mean single payer.

and of course they have already agreeed to do none of those things

Stuck Feny!

PO or No!

Answer to the question–

Then comes the question: Will the White House let the Blue Dog Democrats do this or will they go after the Progressives in the House to support the bill’s passage without a public option in it?

They will if they can.

A big part of the problem is that nobody knows what health care really costs. The pricing system is so chaotic that no one has a handle on it.

Whoops, mistyped.

3 works by itself.

I think the blue dogs need to caucus with the republicans, they destroy our majority under the radar, get them above board so we can vote them out of office

so long as they get to call themselves democrats it’s going to be hard to blame them when they obstruct on behalf of their republican puppet masters

but what do know what it costs. We have about 18 countries worth of reliable comparable data to work with, and most unit service costs are remarkably consistent within 30-40% or so in 17 of ‘em. Guess which one’s the exception and mystery?

(I cant claim the following & forgotten where I found it but it expresses my sentiments exactly!)

****************************** AN OPEN LETTER TO THE US CONGRESS ******************************

——————————— Heed this or enjoy your last term in US Congress ———————————-

We, the people, DEMAND that Single Payer be included in whatever Health Care Reform legislation you pass. We will be watching your actions closely, so, keep the following in mind before casting your vote. Make it count for all Americans :-

Health Care Reform is MEANINGLESS if:

1. There is no Public Option ( No Co-ops, No Triggers ).
2. Everybody is not covered. (Without Exception)
3. Coverage can be denied based on “Pre-existing” conditions.
4. It does not contain Patients’ Rights.
5. Strict Regulations are not imposed on insurance plans.
6. Affordability and costs to consumers, as well as providers, are not addressed.
7. Accessibility, delivery and quality are not maintained and/or improved.
8. There’s NO oversight from medical, financial and nat.ional sec.urity persp.ectives.
9. Profit motive is NOT REMOVED.
10. Innovation, Research guidelines and funding are not addressed.

Health Care For Patients, NOT For Profit because Health Care For Profit is Health Care DENIED.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should an insurance middleman come between a patient and his/her doctor – especially, if the insurance middleman stands to gain from it.

IT’S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

Insurance has no business being in Health Care. They contribute nothing towards it. NOTHING!

Single Payer For All Now! ( S*P*F*A*N ) -*-*- Everybody IN, Nobody OUT.

IT’S THE ONLY RIGHT CHOICE – there’s NO EXCUSE for anything else.

My original “pirate” analogy was from an earlier thread today ,and a comment I made.

To wit:

I would like to see a commercial juxtaposing triple amputee Max Cleland-in a wheelchair- sitting outside the gate at Bush’s Crawford Ranch, circa Swiftboat Summer of ‘04, and waiting…and waiting…for Bush to come out of the house…which Bush NEVER did ,to accept a letter Cleland was attempting to deliver regarding Swiftboat tactics.

Split screen THAT with the hundreds of thousands of uninsured,lined up,waiting…and waiting -for healthcare,but NO ONE comes to open the gate, nor listens to their pleas for a public option.

A voice over could say something to the effect …”In 2004 it was about Swiftboating…In 2008,it’s about slow boating health care reform.

Don’t let pirate lobbyists hijack the public option.”________

I know it. It’s us or US or … U S A, U S A, etc.

If you don’t have a handle on what it actually costs (as opposed to what doctors/hospitals would take if you offered it to them) you can’t get a handle on cost control.

again, I fundamentally do not agree with single payer. In my belief, only two alternatives will work at this point: a very strong public option that’ll quickly attract a critical mass of 50-100 million subscribers, or outright system nationalization. Since the later will not happen, it has to be the former for now, although if the PO doesn’t end up working (and it might not), then we may yet get to the point where system nationalization has to be considered. I believe that, economically speaking, the single payer ship sailed 20 years ago.

STENY was there for the Bush administration and the telecoms on FISA reauthorization and telecom immunity. Led the charge for them. Big time.

I don’t even want him on my side on the coming HCR intra-party civil war.

Just another DINO slimeball.

I’m so angry that I don’t even care what it would cost. IT’S OUR MONEY ! They can spend OUR money to fight 2 wars, bail out Wall Street, save the auto industry (partly) and stuff every bill with pork and we have to beg to have our health taken care of with OUR money. Screw ‘em.

Heh. As Andrea said to Jane, “Civil war?”

I still think that we know what a system that works at or near the productivity efficient frontier, for any given level of GDP per capita, costs on a unit service basis, when you consider data from those other countries. At least within 30-40%. The reason why the US (and China) can’t tell us what their healthcare systems cost is because those systems function at well below the productive-possiblity curve. You have to design a reform package that gets the system back up to the curve, otherwise it stays broken.

A robust public option as you describe it would likely evolve to become a de factor single payer system.

“Then comes the question: Will the White House let the Blue Dog Democrats do this or will they go after the Progressives in the House to support the bill’s passage without a public option in it?”

BOTH!

Z

@36

And WHERE were the town halls when OUR tax money AND FUTURE tax money was being doled out to WallStreet?

Now that’s taxation without representation,for sure.

Talk about single payer!

And,btw, aren’t we entitled to some “get” after all that “give”?

(Incidentally, Bernanke WON”T tell who got what $$ on those too big to fail bailouts.)

77% in support of the public option, and the Democrats have lost the debate?

Charlie, what planet are you on? Oh yeah. Planet Village.

If nothing else, this battle is exposing the true Democrats from the corporate pigs.

yes. after it forces competitive changes in the price-setting mechanism in the healthcare industry (as opposed to the insurance industry), we could end up with single payer.. or not, at that point it won’t matter, since the government program will have simlar unit service prices to the private-insurance program. I went through this in a series of post last night, which unfortunatel I can’t really rehash right now (still at work) ;-)

Also, once insurance reform forces appropriately-valued service pricing (and hence correct valuations of healthcare providers and pharmacos), you actually do have another option – the government begins buying the system.. not the insurers, but the providers themselves. System nationalization. I’m not saying that this is the correct ultimate outcome, but it is one possibility. One can argue that even single payer would be a stepping stone to such an outcome, but single payer without underlying cost-growth containment is a dead end.

Sure sounds like it to me.

Thing is, Hoyer went out of his way to buy the loyalties of many freshman Dems by throwing tons of his PAC money at them. That’s what he’s counting on to keep them in line.

And as we all know, Hoyer’s always been shivving Pelosi.

Only if the private insurance companies are as dumb as a post. Wait a minute, they are dumb enough to pay one guy $100 million to be CEO.

So you are right. And that is why they are pulling out all the stops to sabotage reform.

Yup. Hoyer’s always been undermining Pelosi, but he’s bought off enough freshman Dems so that he’s never successfully punished for doing so.

Steney Hoyer may have to go (along with Harry Reid).

What happened to Anthony Wiener’s 100 representatives who won’t support the bill without a public option? Was I dreaming? Wasn’t that enough to kill a bill in the House?

I’m from Chi and Was a strong BO supporter, but this just keeps getting worse everyday. At least with McLame you knew what you were getting. Now he wants to send MORE troops to Afganistan? After 8 years of losing? Ever hear of Nam?

Hoyer’s a horses ass. WHY can’t we get RID of the current congressional leadership???! They do NOTHING for us and move against us on everything of importance and have been doing so since the Bu$h regime.
Why does ANYONE vote for these people?

Lemmings?

I had a realization today about why Republicans don’t support healthcare. No matter what accommodations the Democrats make they keep saying no. Then I remembered the Republicans fought Medicare and Social Security from the beginning since they represented some form of “socialism”. I think the Republicans want to kill Medicare and Social Security, by letting them bleed a slow death. I am tired of their scare tactics about death panels. I think the Democrats need to boldly accuse the Republicans of not caring about the elderly, that their ultimate goal is to do away with Medicare (and social security.) Won’t matter to them since they have their government pension and insurance. Republicans want to take kill grandma! Why can’t we put them on the defensive?

You must matter because you are you, and you matter until the last moment of your life. We will do all we can, not only to help you to die peacefully, but also to live until you die”

This is a quote by the woman most noted for starting the hospice movement and getting it to this country. I think it implies that each person deserves necessary medical care because each person matters. I think it also lets us know that end of life care is not a rush to death or euthanasia. I know this is not the audience who most needs these thoughts. But maybe the word and the spirit will spread.

That is a very powerful quote. Thank you.

don’t know where to start;

everything you’ve said is already admitted and documented from the republican party, they hate Medicare, they hate any government project, they hate union jobs, they hate effective government

because when you have effective government there becomes less opportunity for profit

when you have living wage jobs you get laborers who educate themselves and learn about their heritage, their government, civics

nor do they want public education, nor do they want environmental control. they went in public and admitted they needed to defeat health care because if they allowed a successful plan the democrats would be harder to defeat

rush said the only reason democrats want a public health care system is because so many people will like it we are just trying to get reelected

they have said all of the above and there is nothing to wonder about

see this graph for why true single payer (Medicare) does not and will not work without underlying industry restructuring:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/82xx/doc8255/825502.gif

For true single payer to work, the blue line would have to be consistently below the red line. It hasn’t been. The two lines (Medicare versus Private) have been basically been in sync – unit service costs have expanded at roughly the same underlying (and ridiculous rate). The Y axis is nominal % increase in spending. “Public” refers to Medicare. “Private” are service costs for privately insured patients.

Can we please move on beyond single payer now and focus on getting the PO deal done? Please?

The predisposition of lemmings for self-destruction is myth, which means they could probably form a political party that would be more effective than the Dems.

Plus, they’re SO cute. They’d get my vote.

this little dfh has always seen Hoyer as Boehner without the tan

Here’s some excellent background on Stinky Hoyer:

THE ESTABLISHMENTARIAN….

So who is Steny Hoyer, and what can we expect from him? Zack Roth, at the end of a long profile in the November Monthly(2006), comes away unimpressed:

The spate of recent lobbying scandals revealed a system in which corporate interests enjoy an unprecedented degree of control over the legislative process. Indeed, the influence of corporate money on legislation is the single biggest obstacle to achieving a broad array of progressive policy goals—from universal health care, to a fairer tax code, to curbing global warming.
That’s why Democrats need leaders who are willing to play aggressively by the current rules of the game — but who seek to change those rules once in power. The enthusiasm with which Hoyer has raised money from K Street, his resistance to serious lobbying reform, and his general comfort with the Washington establishment all imply a politician with little interest in systemic change. Indeed, Hoyer’s contention that the problem lies not with lobbying practices as a whole, but rather with individual corrupt members of Congress, suggests he genuinely sees little need for such change.
The title of the article is “The Establishmentarian,” which pretty much sets the tone for the whole piece. It’s well worth a read.(Kevin Drum)

The Establishmentarian – Zachary RothThe Establishmentarian Democrats have won control of the House, and Steny Hoyer has Tom DeLay’s old job. Some things will change. Some won’t. …
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/feat……roth.html – Cached – Similar

I do like the myth re the Dems. The circular firing squad is now ready and aiming.

Don’t they realize that no matter how they spin HCR, that without a public option they will LOOSE THEIR BASE and the majority in 2010? We worked too hard to roll over if they roll over us.

Anthony Wiener would make a great Speaker.

I get these emails from some organization called newsmax, which is apparently some right-wing organ a la Drudge, that has these appeals to rally the right. The one today has an appeal for funds for an ad from Dick Morris and a group calling themselves League of American Voters which is going to try to sell the idea to the “elderly” that the public option means Medicare cuts to finance it. 70% may be in favor of the public option but the right wing is noisy and they are getting a lot of the attention.

“Steny Hoyer says PO may have to go…”

I say. “Steny Ho IS going to go.”

WHY can’t we get RID of the current congressional leadership???! – siri

Because the rank and file won’t buck that (Party) leadership. The Party ’system’ as now practiced has turned our supposedly-independent legislators into pathetic dependents, supplicants for Party favors (money). Only something like the pending publicly-financed-campaign-reform Fair Elections Now Act seems likely to break this pattern of exceedingly-destructive top-down control of Congress by Party Bosses (said bosses being the ones who have the power to bring that legislation to the floor, or not).

And as we all know, Hoyer’s always been shivving Pelosi.

—-

Hoyer’s always been undermining Pelosi, but he’s bought off enough freshman Dems so that he’s never successfully punished for doing so. – Phoenix Woman

Do we know this, in fact? Or is this just conventional wisdom, carefully propagated by Pelosi to enable her to keep her “progressive” credentials?

“Is Steny suggesting that he’s NOT a Democrat?”

No, I think he’s suggesting that he is an asshole, though. I concur.

far right wing “news” website. KO makes fun of ‘em. How did you get onto their mailing list? Lead underwriters of the website include Bill Casey and Richard Mellon Scaife. They used to specialize in advocating the shooting of illegal immigrants, but they have since moved onto other varieties of wingnuttia.

And Bonus: They taste like chicken.

Then instead of paying insurance premiums, we pay taxes to government
and where is the guarantee our money goes to pay for health
care?
Remember all the money paid into Soc. Sec. is gone.
That will be the next bail out

Amen! I’m already angry that one in three of my healthcare dollars goes to a fat-cat CEO. For the government to make this situation MANDATORY is one of the biggest outrages in our country’s history It smells Un-American and unconstitutional.

The biggest problem I have with both Reid and Pelosi is their inability to hold their caucuses together.

In this case, Hoyer’s remarks are a virtual a shot across the bow to her leadership — is he vying to replace Pelosi? Is he sucking up to Emanuel?

If the Democrats were truly “negotiating” — with ANYONE — they would be pushing for the most liberal bill possible, knowing that any negotiations would be moderated by the Republicans and the Blue Dogs.

Instead, the Democrats are purposely (imo) pushing for a bill that favors the insurance companies and Big Pharma by eliminating as many of the progressive elements of the bill up front so that when it comes time to vote for a bill the caucus will unify around a watered down mess.

As a result, this process has split the Democrats, split Obama’s supporters, and unified the opposition. Either the President is approving these actions and is therefore corrupted by the big monied interests, or he has bad advisers surrounding him that is leading to mixed messages and poor decisions.

In the first case, well . . . its third party time. In the second case, Rahm has to go.

I am not yet at the stage where I am AN OPPONENT of the President — meaning that I still believe he can be the President we voted for. Because of this, I believe the problem lies with Rahm Emanuel among others.

(Though I have to say that Obama’s public appearances this last week leave me wondering if he in fact is not selling everyone out.)

Rahm….Rahm…..why are you so down on the man.
You people don’t understand. Rahm has great power because he knows where Obama was born and has physical evidence to prove it.
Now do you understand why health care reform is DOA and why Rahm is so powerful?

not quite so
Health care dollar;
.31 to physicians, .29 to hospitals, .14 to Rx, .14 to admin (private insurance cost, .06 dental, .03 other .03 nursing home and durable medical goods
http://perotcharts.com/2008/05…..llar-2004/

And on the other side of the Congress, Kent Conrad:

Meanwhile, a slew of prominent industry lobbyists have been donating to Conrad’s leadership PAC as well.

• David Castagnetti, of the firm Mehlman Vogel Castagnetti, donated $1,000 to the Senator’s PAC. Castagnetti and his firm have been paid $877,500 to lobby on behalf of America’s Health Insurance Plans, including $250,000 in 2009 alone. He has also earned $825,000 ($180,000 in 2009) to lobby on behalf of PhRMA.
• Charles Brain, of Capitol Hill Strategies, donated $1,000 to Conrad’s PAC. Both he and his firm have been paid $1.4 million to lobby on behalf of PhRMA.
• John Jonas, of the firm Patton Boggs, gave $1,000 to Conrad’s PAC. He and his firm have been paid $280,000 to lobby on behalf of American Healthcare Association in 2009, as well as $280,000 by BristolMyers Squibb for lobbying this year alone.
• Brian Griffin, a lobbyist for the Duberstein Group, made a $1,000 donation to Conrad’s PAC. He and his firm have earned $300,000 to lobby on behalf of AHIP in 2009, as well as $960,000 overall.
• Michael Levy, a lobbyist for the firm Brownstein, Hyatt, Farber and Schreck, donated $500 to Conrad’s PAC. He and his firm have lobbied on behalf of a host of insurance and pharmaceutical companies including United Health Group, for which it was paid $110,000 in 2009.

From Sam Stein and Ryan Grim, Huffington Post

he knows where Obama was born and has physical evidence to prove it

Off your meds so soon??

SPIT!!!

We’re assuming that the President and his allies have the means to push for the public option, and aren’t employing them .. that, in fact, they’re pushing against a public option because it favors their corporate sponsors. In other words, we think they’re BSing us about their actual hand.

Let us suppose that this theory is wrong. What if they really don’t have the means to push?

If Hoyer is right, and we don’t have the votes for HCR with a public option; and Pelosi is right, and we don’t have the votes for HCR without a public option; then we don’t get HCR at all.

Are we willing to accept that outcome, and the possibility of having the progressive agenda delayed for another generation?

Are we, as Nate Silver has speculated, On Tilt?

There’s just One Man at the top — of the Democratic Party, of the Executive Branch, of the US Government and effectively, of the nation.

All the rest are operatives, well-intentioned mini-heroes or scurrilous shills.

If the One Man can get his act together, he will secure a favorable place in history. He will be widely beloved, like Lincoln, and easily secure not just a second term but a perpetual seat at the policy table until such time as he withdraws or passes.

If the One Man can’t get his act together, he will go down as a failure who presided over the 21st-Century versions of Teapot Dome, Vietnam, and the Age of Coal. The legacy will stay with him his entire life and live on for the rest of the century.

The One Man’s best choice is clear.

Maybe Steny Hoyer will be driving one of these buses,instead of running the ship aground.

“Conservatives Plan New Round of Tea Parties”
Date Published: August 18, 2009

Publication: Wall Street Journal

Author: Jake Sherman

When the health care town halls end, tea parties begin.

That’s what eight conservative groups decided, as they joined forces to launch a new, 16-day national tea party tour later this month, taking their small-government message to towns all over the country.
Two 45-foot buses will snake their way across America, beginning in Sacramento Aug. 28 and ending with a “March on Washington” Sept. 12. The leader is a California based political action committee Our Country Deserves Better. The best-known partner is FreedomWorks, former House Speaker Dick Armey’s influential conservative group which has been a major player in opposition to health care overhaul.

The finale event already has its own Web site (http://912dc.org/). Participants are going to meet in Freedom Plaza about 10 blocks from the Capitol (coincidentally, just a block from the Ronald Reagan Building) and will walk up Pennsylvania Avenue to the U.S. Capitol for a rally.

I guess, maxomai, I’d answer your question this way: “we won’t know if they can do it until they try”.

You know, sometimes it’s OK to lose, but it’s never OK to not play the game. In other words, sometimes its better to see a good bill go down to defeat than a poor one passed. It makes crystal clear who the good guys are and who needs to be voted out.

But I know for a fact that Pelosi, for one, doesn’t agree with this. She is very proud of the fact that “she knows how the game is played” and can pass legislation. A good example of this was the Iraq War spending bill passed right after the Democrats became the majority in the House. Pelosi worked overtime to make sure a bill was passed — and if that meant basically passing a bill that was written by the Bush administration, then so be it — at least it passed. But, of course, it was a very bad thing to do, and worse (from a political point of view) it put a lot of newly elected Democrats in a bind.

The problem I see right now is that there are too many of these “compromise your way to victory” Democrats in power right now, and not enough “we know where we want to go” Democrats. All this can be solved, however, with a small shake-up at the White House and one of two changes in leadership in the Congress. If a majority leader loses their post it sends a very, very strong message to the rest of the caucus (which is why it rarely happens).

@82
I know I’m for sure not the smartest person in this room,but it is my studied opinion,that in MOST instances ,”Going along to get along” gets you no where and gets you no-thing.

And com-promises,well, come and promise don’t mean you will honor your promise.

We ALL know a thing or two about that,don’t we?

What are main thrusts of this so called healthcare reform?

A) Slow/contain cost increases.Bring universal level field coverage for all Americans who need medical/pharma service and treatment.

Known best method?

A) Single Payer Plan/reset version of Medicare For All/public provider

Worst enemy of cost control, rate of increase slow downs/containment?

A) For profit insurers, pharma and open ended cost push providers and delivery of current regimes.

What is the core issue for resisting healthcare reform?

A) The money flows being diverted from for profit regimes to public non-profit regimes.

Who is resisting or trying to sink real American healthcare/insurance coverage reform?

A) Those who stand to lose the profit payouts, political tribute, revolving door employment pathways, stock market ROI updrafting, corporate payouts to/for top five percent of American population. Those who see making profits off Americans in providing healthcare coverage within for profit framing as lucrative and a open ended money making enterprise. Ethics? Morals? Mercy? Compassion? So phucken what!? — they want to make the big money!

Steny Hoyer? Many Blue Dogs? More than a few in Obama WH? The Republicans?

A) Clearly are going with the money angle — more interested in corrupt money politics, K Street games and protecting political slush funding and influence for sale or buy political conduct.

Real solution here?

A) Take out the abuse of money in American elections which is only way to curb the corrupt money politics that infest American politics and government process.

Thanks for the fascinating report on the right wing’s forthcoming victory celebration. More power to them. The right played an evil but good game.

Not so the White House. The Grand Strategists in the White House identified the means as the end. Healthcare reform, important though it may be, is only a means to an end, the end being the victory of progressive politics now and for the foreseeable future.

They’ve thrown away that which would make all the rest possible. What a bunch of losers.

Kill the bill and let’s get on with climate change legislation. Maybe if that’s handled more adroitly, it will open the door for healthcare to be reconsidered.

BTW, where are the multimillion-dollar “progressive” organizations like MoveOn, the Soros people, and the various think tanks that pepper the Beltway and university campuses? WTF have they been doing while the tea-baggers shamed democracy at poorly conceived and unorganized “town halls”?

It would be ideal to begin a third party, but given the stranglehold the established parties have on the electoral process, it will be a tough go. You can see where this is leading: perpetual chaos, oppression, division, hatred, and violence. It didn’t have to be this way…or did it? Maybe the “extremists” are right and “reform” is not enough.

I’m soon to become an expat (in a real democracy, in Scandinavia) for career reasons. What will I come home to? And does FDL accept donations in crowns?

Fuck Steny Hoyer!

well said. 1000% in agreement. Hoyer is worse than a republican, because he’s now in a position to do real damage to the middle class– which is exactly what he’s been doing.
What a shithead.

Obama’s fetish of bipartisanship is destroying his infant administration, the future of the Democratic Party and ultimately the nation. Obama may be “brilliant” but far from smart and his lasting legacy will be “Cash for Clunkers.”

Why not Blob?

“…we’ll have to see..” Oh really?

So when Pelosi kicks his ass is it that he wants a better view to ’see’ her foot coming? Well that kinda seeing is OK then.

see the Congressional Budget Office graph I linked in #57 above.

Basically, Medicare as insurance charges a lot less than private insurance for premiums but the underlying unit cost structure of services is exactly the same. In short, the math fails. Medicare cannot be extended in its current form without forcing changes in the underlying servicse cost structure, and nothing in the design of Medicare-style single-payer will do that (as proven by the fact that the blue line and red line basically track each other). We could’ve gotten single payer to work decades ago, but not now… not with costs as out of control as they are. Single payer, if introduced now, would simply fail.

Really we have two choices now: (i) a strong PO as price-setter and private-insurance as price-takers, with enforced margin-compression on the takers to force real productivity gains in the healthcare industry, or (ii) outright nationalization of the entire system (VA-for-all) followed by massive and brutal cost-cutting (my 97% pay cut for surgeons). Anythign else fails.

News flash: the public says, “Hoyer may have to go”.

I have no idea how I got on their serve list. I noticed that I used to get some sort of emails from “Bloomberg news” and these seemed to follow that. Anyway, I assumed they were some sort of Scaife operation since the stuff they spew is typical disinformation/scare tactic stuff.

and, by the way, if the PO isn’t strong enough or the underlying unit service cost doesn’t start falling as a result, even with the PO we’ll be right back where we started in 10 or 15 years – with a fiscally unsustainable system.

At that point, the only remaining option will be full-blown nationalization – seizure of a bankrupt system and all of its people, buildings and equipment, where every doctor, nurse, clinic and hospital will become part of the US Federal Health Service. It is not impossible that we’re only buying time with these “reform” measures, but only time will tell. We need to be willing to give the PO-based hybrid system a chance. We kind of don’t have a choice, because nothing else will pass now that’ll even remotely have a chance to work. If pass employee/citizen-mandate only or co-ops, we’re guaranteeing ourselves nationalization in only a few short years.

It is almost impossible to overstate how fundamentally sick and broken the American healthcare system is right now.

uh; I think Vietnam was in the 20th century
Put your pipe down and exhale

Amen. I am so furious at Hoyer and all these Democratic creeps tyring to undermine the PO. The public option is not only a progressive goal, IT’S A DEMOCRATIC GOAL!!! Have these so called Democrats forgotten what the hell they stand for? The PO is about what’s best for the people of this country, not just one side of the political spectrum!!! I am so sick of this shit. Don’t these shitheads give a damn about Americans???? I swear to god, I am this close to bowing out of the political process for good.

F*ck Steny Hoyer.
On second thought, hand him a rusty garden implement and tell him to do it himself.

Heh. What brand do you chew or are ya just spittin’?

Maybe after this reform goes through we ought to run a big ad campaign urging people to drop chewing tobacco. I know it’s been done before, but with the new reform in place it would seem only appropriate to raise awareness of personal health at that time.

Jeez, I’m glad I never used tobacco. Nasty stuff!

Bloody ‘ell. Let’s not get too mad at our own people, eh.

The Public OPtion may have to stay in place for any bill passed.

Now see, it sounds so much better and accomplishes so much more.