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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Numbers Driving Democrats Down</title>
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	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: Auduboner</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-40046</link>
		<dc:creator>Auduboner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-40046</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I am not so much convinced that Rahm doesn’t have a lot of talent–I think he does—but that he reverts back to the techniques that got him success a prior time. And implementing strategies that would “triangulate” the issues in the mid 1990’s worked big then.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m curious - what would you consider Rahm’s past successes?  Or “triangulation’s” for that matter?  Clinton’s health-care plan?  DADT?  They balanced the budget, mostly on the backs of the Poor (and Marjorie Margolies Mezvinsky), which kept Wall Street fat and happy.  The Clinton administration was HIGHLY overrated, and didn’t move this country forward.  They mostly just avoided making major blunders through an overabundance of caution, and only look good by comparison with the complete incompetency and utter venality of the gang that rode in behind them.  The incestuous relationship between the Clintons and the major investment banks (where Chelsea now brings down seven figures) is as sickening as the one between the Bush family and the hedge funds…  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If participating in that non-victory is Rahmie-Boy’s clam to fame, I rest my case, both as to his incompetence and Obama’s poor selection.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I am not so much convinced that Rahm doesn’t have a lot of talent–I think he does—but that he reverts back to the techniques that got him success a prior time. And implementing strategies that would “triangulate” the issues in the mid 1990’s worked big then.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m curious &#8211; what would you consider Rahm’s past successes?  Or “triangulation’s” for that matter?  Clinton’s health-care plan?  DADT?  They balanced the budget, mostly on the backs of the Poor (and Marjorie Margolies Mezvinsky), which kept Wall Street fat and happy.  The Clinton administration was HIGHLY overrated, and didn’t move this country forward.  They mostly just avoided making major blunders through an overabundance of caution, and only look good by comparison with the complete incompetency and utter venality of the gang that rode in behind them.  The incestuous relationship between the Clintons and the major investment banks (where Chelsea now brings down seven figures) is as sickening as the one between the Bush family and the hedge funds…  </p>
<p>If participating in that non-victory is Rahmie-Boy’s clam to fame, I rest my case, both as to his incompetence and Obama’s poor selection.</p>
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		<title>By: Mason</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39994</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39994</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;To pass a bill with no public option and no negotiation power with Phrma but loaded with taxes and mandates is a DISASTER! It perfectly plays into the stereotype of Democrats. Who is so stupid that they believe this is a good idea? And how the hell did they convince Obama of this? The Democrats will be run out of town on a rail if they pass such a travesty.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve been warning about this “clear and present danger” for a long time now. Health insurance reform that includes mandates without a public option to effectively negotiate for lower prices is a multiple billion dollar government engineered theft from the middle class to the corporations involved in health care. This should now be clear to everyone and beyond dispute.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rahm-Obama-Bing-Bang know this and want it to happen. They specifically have put off the date it will go into effect until after the 2012 national election because they know re-election will be impossible if the bill passes and goes into effect before then.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I do not believe it’s a coincidence that Obama’s actions since he took office are entirely consistent with the Chicago School’s neoconservative goal to remake the world into America’s corporate empire. Professor Leo Strauss, the neocon godfather taught Political Philosophy in the Department of Political Science at the University of Chicago and Milton Friedman, virulent free market and pure capitalist enthusiast, taught in the Department of Economics. The University of Chicago is infected with their acolytes and Obama taught Constitutional Law at the law school. I doubt everyone who teaches at the University of Chicago endorses the evil theories of those two monsters, but what I’m seeing causes me to ask myself if Obama subscribes to their views. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I believe the University of Chicago connection merits serious study, given the circumstantial evidence of linkage, and I intend to do that. In the meantime, just for fun, I encourage each of you to assume for the sake of argument that he is a Machiavellian corporatist neocon free market enthusiast who plotted and planned all of his actions to get elected so that he could do exactly what he has done since he took office. Does such an explanation for his decisions since taking office make more or less sense to you than theories based on notions that he’s too idealistic and too committed to compromise and bipartisanship?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also ask yourself why he is so nonjudgmental about the right wing and so judgmental about progressives? Is this not a quintessential neocon view?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To pass a bill with no public option and no negotiation power with Phrma but loaded with taxes and mandates is a DISASTER! It perfectly plays into the stereotype of Democrats. Who is so stupid that they believe this is a good idea? And how the hell did they convince Obama of this? The Democrats will be run out of town on a rail if they pass such a travesty.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’ve been warning about this “clear and present danger” for a long time now. Health insurance reform that includes mandates without a public option to effectively negotiate for lower prices is a multiple billion dollar government engineered theft from the middle class to the corporations involved in health care. This should now be clear to everyone and beyond dispute.</p>
<p>Rahm-Obama-Bing-Bang know this and want it to happen. They specifically have put off the date it will go into effect until after the 2012 national election because they know re-election will be impossible if the bill passes and goes into effect before then.</p>
<p>I do not believe it’s a coincidence that Obama’s actions since he took office are entirely consistent with the Chicago School’s neoconservative goal to remake the world into America’s corporate empire. Professor Leo Strauss, the neocon godfather taught Political Philosophy in the Department of Political Science at the University of Chicago and Milton Friedman, virulent free market and pure capitalist enthusiast, taught in the Department of Economics. The University of Chicago is infected with their acolytes and Obama taught Constitutional Law at the law school. I doubt everyone who teaches at the University of Chicago endorses the evil theories of those two monsters, but what I’m seeing causes me to ask myself if Obama subscribes to their views. </p>
<p>I believe the University of Chicago connection merits serious study, given the circumstantial evidence of linkage, and I intend to do that. In the meantime, just for fun, I encourage each of you to assume for the sake of argument that he is a Machiavellian corporatist neocon free market enthusiast who plotted and planned all of his actions to get elected so that he could do exactly what he has done since he took office. Does such an explanation for his decisions since taking office make more or less sense to you than theories based on notions that he’s too idealistic and too committed to compromise and bipartisanship?</p>
<p>Also ask yourself why he is so nonjudgmental about the right wing and so judgmental about progressives? Is this not a quintessential neocon view?</p>
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		<title>By: gamd521</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39991</link>
		<dc:creator>gamd521</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39991</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am new to this site and what has attratacted me most of all the admirable qualities of Jane Hamsher is her her attitude, which is how I feel as well. This is an attitude of contempt for those who would prey on you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No one who would act against our public interest should be exempted from this contempt. While it is true that Obama and the present congress is what has to be dealt with, they do need to be dealt with. Action is called for not just grumping. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Donating money to our supporters is one aspect surely and one should should reward those officials who act on our behalf, although it is rather unseemly to go that route. But there are many other options for the public who is being taken for fools and dupes to react. There is something craven in not doing so.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama is unreliable and has made his proclivities for siding with big comapnies already clear, there is no need to doubt that these are his truly held preferences because he acts on those. What we need to do is to likewise act on our own behalf. It is action that is called for.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whatever form this action takes it must show results. Incessant protesting to our reprentatatives to commit to the PO publicly and factually revealing in print whatever may be compromising their reluctance to do so should be pursued.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;However one should seriously think about forming a concerted campaign based on the single issue of public finacing of health care at least to a significant extent. The goal should be to make our representatives, congressmen and senators alike, commit to that publicly. That is an attainable goal and it will make a difference. Their unwillingness to do so will mean that we will support a candidate who is willing to commit to that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am new to this site and what has attratacted me most of all the admirable qualities of Jane Hamsher is her her attitude, which is how I feel as well. This is an attitude of contempt for those who would prey on you.</p>
<p>No one who would act against our public interest should be exempted from this contempt. While it is true that Obama and the present congress is what has to be dealt with, they do need to be dealt with. Action is called for not just grumping. </p>
<p>Donating money to our supporters is one aspect surely and one should should reward those officials who act on our behalf, although it is rather unseemly to go that route. But there are many other options for the public who is being taken for fools and dupes to react. There is something craven in not doing so.</p>
<p>Obama is unreliable and has made his proclivities for siding with big comapnies already clear, there is no need to doubt that these are his truly held preferences because he acts on those. What we need to do is to likewise act on our own behalf. It is action that is called for.</p>
<p>Whatever form this action takes it must show results. Incessant protesting to our reprentatatives to commit to the PO publicly and factually revealing in print whatever may be compromising their reluctance to do so should be pursued.</p>
<p>However one should seriously think about forming a concerted campaign based on the single issue of public finacing of health care at least to a significant extent. The goal should be to make our representatives, congressmen and senators alike, commit to that publicly. That is an attainable goal and it will make a difference. Their unwillingness to do so will mean that we will support a candidate who is willing to commit to that.</p>
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		<title>By: boadicea</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39982</link>
		<dc:creator>boadicea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39982</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you have a working plan to build a new national third party-remember, have to get on the ballot state by state, (and they all have their own protectionist rules), I would truly love to hear it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Because Dems in power keep thinking “where are you guys gonna go, to the Republicans”.  They forget that apathy is a player as well.  Just because people are disgusted with Republican lies doesn’t mean they’ll tolerate Democratic ones.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They’ll just stop playing. And then the entrenched corp interests will get to play D vs R against each other again. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All because the Ds didn’t have the guts to deliver on their promise of change.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have a working plan to build a new national third party-remember, have to get on the ballot state by state, (and they all have their own protectionist rules), I would truly love to hear it.</p>
<p>Because Dems in power keep thinking “where are you guys gonna go, to the Republicans”.  They forget that apathy is a player as well.  Just because people are disgusted with Republican lies doesn’t mean they’ll tolerate Democratic ones.</p>
<p>They’ll just stop playing. And then the entrenched corp interests will get to play D vs R against each other again. </p>
<p>All because the Ds didn’t have the guts to deliver on their promise of change.</p>
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		<title>By: boadicea</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39977</link>
		<dc:creator>boadicea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39977</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Those young people have parents and grandparents.  Do you really thing they are oblivious to seeing their families threatened or facing destitution because of one accident or unexpected health issue?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Because we are clearly not talking to the same young people, if so.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those young people have parents and grandparents.  Do you really thing they are oblivious to seeing their families threatened or facing destitution because of one accident or unexpected health issue?</p>
<p>Because we are clearly not talking to the same young people, if so.</p>
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		<title>By: smcclurk</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39971</link>
		<dc:creator>smcclurk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39971</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Unlike Glenzilla, I’m not worried about the Naderization of the left, nor am I worried that Obama will lose young people if he fails to appease the liberal base.  He will lose young people and the left if he forces them pay tribute to Blue Cross with no cost controls and no competition.  There is no constituency who supports that.  I could run the campaign against that tomorrow.  I very well may.  But even if I don’t, the Republicans will.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thank you Jane! Thank You, Thank You, Thank YOu!!! I’ve been making this point over and over in multiple blogs. To pass a bill with no public option and no negotiation power with Phrma but loaded with taxes and mandates is a DISASTER! It perfectly plays into the stereotype of Democrats. Who is so stupid that they believe this is a good idea? And how the hell did they convince Obama of this? The Democrats will be run out of town on a rail if they pass such a travesty.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Unlike Glenzilla, I’m not worried about the Naderization of the left, nor am I worried that Obama will lose young people if he fails to appease the liberal base.  He will lose young people and the left if he forces them pay tribute to Blue Cross with no cost controls and no competition.  There is no constituency who supports that.  I could run the campaign against that tomorrow.  I very well may.  But even if I don’t, the Republicans will.”</p>
<p>Thank you Jane! Thank You, Thank You, Thank YOu!!! I’ve been making this point over and over in multiple blogs. To pass a bill with no public option and no negotiation power with Phrma but loaded with taxes and mandates is a DISASTER! It perfectly plays into the stereotype of Democrats. Who is so stupid that they believe this is a good idea? And how the hell did they convince Obama of this? The Democrats will be run out of town on a rail if they pass such a travesty.</p>
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		<title>By: RU4862</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39968</link>
		<dc:creator>RU4862</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39968</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Should we be surprised?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;An recent Abc/Washington Post poll attributes Obama’s declining support from Democrats and liberals. I support this president, but I’ve grown weary of him, he’s consistent with inconsistencies and too often compromises principle for republican bipartisanship. And Rahm Emanuel, well, he’s been a disaster from the start; something about Rahm is not right.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should we be surprised?</p>
<p>An recent Abc/Washington Post poll attributes Obama’s declining support from Democrats and liberals. I support this president, but I’ve grown weary of him, he’s consistent with inconsistencies and too often compromises principle for republican bipartisanship. And Rahm Emanuel, well, he’s been a disaster from the start; something about Rahm is not right.</p>
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		<title>By: cbl2</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39967</link>
		<dc:creator>cbl2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39967</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;fyi - I bookmarked the posts you wrote when Rahm was nominated - knowing they would come in to play&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you are on fire&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fyi &#8211; I bookmarked the posts you wrote when Rahm was nominated &#8211; knowing they would come in to play</p>
<p>you are on fire</p>
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		<title>By: GuyFromOhio</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39966</link>
		<dc:creator>GuyFromOhio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39966</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Slightly OT - that research and polling effort that Kos set up has been a goldmine of information. The transparency of the polling process and all the supporting data have made it much easier to reliably gage (guage?) what the heck people are thinking. Still just a poll, but its one I see frequently referenced here and in many other progressive venues.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly OT &#8211; that research and polling effort that Kos set up has been a goldmine of information. The transparency of the polling process and all the supporting data have made it much easier to reliably gage (guage?) what the heck people are thinking. Still just a poll, but its one I see frequently referenced here and in many other progressive venues.</p>
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		<title>By: nick1936</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39965</link>
		<dc:creator>nick1936</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/#comment-39965</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree Rahm is so overrated that he can’t even control the Blue Dogs that he got elected. I was a Hillary supporter and was beaten up by my daughter and her friends when I told them that Obama besides his great speeches, when push came to shove he would fold like a cheap beach chair. When is he and the other Dem’s going to learn that they are winners because of us and stop kissing Grassley ass.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Rahm is so overrated that he can’t even control the Blue Dogs that he got elected. I was a Hillary supporter and was beaten up by my daughter and her friends when I told them that Obama besides his great speeches, when push came to shove he would fold like a cheap beach chair. When is he and the other Dem’s going to learn that they are winners because of us and stop kissing Grassley ass.</p>
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