More than three out of every four Americans feel it is important to have a “choice” between a government-run health care insurance option and private coverage, according to a public opinion poll released on Thursday.
A new study by SurveyUSA puts support for a public option at a robust 77 percent, one percentage point higher than where it stood in June.
That 77% is a really important number. Ed Kilgore:
[E]nough House Democrats have pledged not to vote for any bill that doesn’t include the public option to sink a conference report. And Sen. Kent Conrad is probably right that there aren’t and never have been 60 votes for a plan with a public option in the Senate.
So somebody will have to flinch, and that’s where it will become important to pay close attention to all the less-prominent, but potentially critical, issues that will be at stake.
I was at dinner tonight with some DC folks who scoffed at the notion that House progressives would "take down" the Obama administration by "killing" health care. I said "it’s the same threat that Kent Conrad and Evan Bayh are making." The bottom line: they thought Bayh and Conrad had the bottle, but the House Dems did not.
The House Dems have 77% of the country behind them. Conrad and Bayh have WellPoint and Blue Cross behind them, and messy financial ties to boot. Will they join with the Republicans to filibuster a Democratic health care bill? Because as Kagro X says, that is very much what they are saying they will do.
I guess we will see.
On a not unrelated note: I’m remiss in not thanking Darcy Burner profusely for her role in all of this. Without her tireless efforts telling progressive members of the House to stand up to Rahm Emanuel and defy the insurance companies and the White House, none of this would have happened. We’ve relied on her help and guidance throughout this process to build trust between the netroots and the progressive members of Congress such that they felt comfortable taking this big risk. Without the invaluable inside information she was feeding us we would’ve been groping around in the dark; her consistent loyalty to the netroots and her willingness to defy the powers that be were critical to this effort.
88 Comments
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
Advanced search
The insurance companies and their lobbyists quickly surround enough of the small state congress people to block any effective change.
It’s like the reverse of the French Revolution. The revolutionaries got influence over the smaller and smaller core of the Revolutionary French Government. (Simon Schama “Citizens” (1988)) Only here, the reactionary private insurers who don’t want ANY change are doing that.
We are not trying to “take down” anybody, or to “kill” any efforts to provide more healthcare to more people. Those money-making companies which profit by taking more than their fair share of our resources do “take down” the sick and the poor who cannot afford health care when they need it. Those who would do more of that kind of ‘violence’ to the sick and the poor, are guilty of “killing” healthcare reform.
The CEO of Wellpoint was on NPR this morning. She has a “sweet little girl” voice and was spouting crap. I had to turn it off.
I was also impressed by the Rasmussen poll yesterday
http://www.rasmussenreports.co….._collapses
The (normally evil) Rasmussen found that not only do most people want a choice for a public option, but 57% (which matched CNN’s own polling by the way) said that health reform MUST have a public option or should fail. Given that different question, this is pretty tremendous.
The stars are aligned. Unfortunately, our politicians won’t look up.
Why not have one of their board members, Susan Bayh, on? Maybe she can explain the millions of dollars she receives from the current system has no bearing on her husbands strong stand on making sure Americans don’t get the change we voted for last November.
The 60 seat Democratic majority in the Senate is a chimera. However, 50 votes are all that is needed to pass the legislation. The votes Conrad and Bayh are irrelevant.
If we’re really lucky, the Rethugs will attempt to fillibuster it.
Unless there is a strong public option in any legislation we can only hope it never passes. It will probably mean the end of Obama’s administration but he brought it on himself with his fetish of bipartisanship. Let his admiinstration suffer the consequences for choosing poorly. Maybe then a real progressive can be found to challange him in the primaries and galvanize the nation on a meaningful path to transformational change.
good luck with that
Hapless Harry Reid has already conceded to Republic demands to pre-filibuster any and all bills that may come to a voting stage. See, having 77% of Americans behind something is not a real majority to Harry.
Why are we leaving Harry Reid out of the equation? He is leaving the corrupt uber criminals to lead committees that will kill us to get a bribe from the corporate non health related killers. Reid needs to either begin to act like a democrat or get the hell out. He appears to be a republican, and why are the members of the senate allowing this?
We don’t want to kill the Obama administration.
Why do they want to commit political suicide to protect Big Insurance and Billy Tauzin’s Pharma lobby?
A Republic says “I call filibuster” and Hapless Harry Reid says “Well, that’s enough for me. The bill is dead.”
Why are people like Conrad and Bayh willing to face the wrath of the voters? I know their greedy need for money from the health care companies but they won’t get any more of that if they are not re-elected. If I were in their place, I believe I would think it’s time to say “well, the folks back home have spoken and we will vote for the PO.”
We just went thru this. We elected Pres. O. When did that seem likely last year? not even election eve, really. We Will Get health care reform, and a public option part of it. Do not believe the morons.
The revolving door. Congress to lobbyist and instant riches.
Bingo!!
Can Conrad be primaried? I don’t know? Bayh would be harder. A lot harder. But if Bayh were ever to be knocked off. Now is the time. Why? The economy!!
Not this time. With numbers like 77% at play, he won’t get away with it.
I guess that’s true but it gives me a sick feeling when I think how much good they could be doing for the country and just won’t.
Conrad and Bayh are irrelevant.
Krugman – on Obama and trust
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08……html?_r=1
Their votes may be irrelevant but their voices are not. They just keep talking and talking and it’s obvious that many are listening. They don’t make sense but that doesn’t stop the “scardies” from thinking they do.
Bayh MUST be primaried. I’ve been disgusted with him for years, but never as disgusted as I am right now.
That being said, he’s as strong in Indiana as any senator ever was anywhere — I can’t for the life of me figure out why, but he is. However, if he maintains his obstruction to Health Care Reform, it’ll be the best chance we’ve had to finally knock him off.
And 1.4 million per day will buy you a lotta morons.
I agree. Thankfully the good guys in the House will see to that, not that they didn’t need a little nudge here and there (ok, a 2 by 4 upside the head, repeatedly.)
I hate that little girl voice crap, too, but I have to tell you that I’ve seen it in action and it is effective with lots and lots of men.
When you mention morons are you referring to Obama’s advisors and how they allowed the right wing to frame the debate or the backroom deals they make with big pharma or the behind closed door brow beating of progressive elements? Are those the morors of whom you speak?
Doesn’t matter. They can run their mouths all they want. The pro side only needs to muster 50 votes in the Senate.
The poll also asked respondents if they had health insurance. Eighty-five percent said they currently had health insurance, with Republicans reporting 88 percent versus 85 percent for Democrats and Independents. Almost a third (31 percent) were already covered under “public options” such as Medicare, Medicaid or the military’s Tricare.
77% isn’t enough. If Dems pass what we want, some Republican might say mean things about them, so we’re going to have to capitulate.
Unless we are really willing to take down the bill, very bad things will happen.
1. Obama has nothing with which to negotiate with Conrad and Baucus, no threat and he may give in.
2. If he gives in, we will get a bad bill, progressive change will die, because nothing will ever get passed, the Obama adminsitration will becoem Jimmy Carter II.
We have to be willing to make a bad bill fail.
It’s Conrad and Baucus v. the people.
Sorry about the typos.
The real threat is a third party candidate in Indiana. Bayh must see risk and primaries don’t do it. But take away 5 or 10% and a R wins.
Bayh would fear that.
In addition, AFL-CIO will not support him if he votes no.
I love Darcy!!!
Go Darcy!!!
didn’t Orrin Hatch say yesterday that he felt the Dems should agree that 80 votes should be the threshold for passage of healthcare reform? They’re now just outright acting in bad faith. Can’t we just get rid of the 60 vote rule and go back to 51 (although i assume that would take 2/3rds for a rules change)?
The rethugs continuously say that allowing insurance companies to operate across state lines will allow free enterprise to reduce rates. CITI bank set up operations in SD who eliminated usury rules then proceeded to operate across state lines; sued under the commerce clause and wiped out all usury laws. Free enterprise works real great check your credit card statement.
Upsetting 20 Republican Senators seems awfully risky! They might go on Teevee and say unkind things! Unkind, I say!
Nay, we can’t risk that. We must keep that powder dry and capitulate in full now. Maybe then the Republicans will say nice things?
Can someone sponsor some state-by-state polls of the same question? Now that the polls have slain the “But the people don’t want a public option” argument. The last refuge is in the “But the people in [state] don’t want it, and he’s voting with his constituents” argument, which I intuit from what I hear around here is likely to be as bogus and the national argument.
Orrin Hatch needs to reread the Constitution (assuming he’s read it at least once before). 50 votes are all that’s needed to pass legislation in the Senate.
TomWells
Conrad and Bayh are irrelevant.
We conveniently ignore or neglect the “potential” facts that will occur in the Third Quarter of next year. Home mortgage foreclosures will peak, and at present the commercial sector is underwater at a -67% and this too should peak next year. As such, the double-whammy.
Should this occur, the general public will be well beyond angry and to the point of being incensed, and ‘that’ does not bode well, especially for the Republicans, and somewhat less so for the Democrats. Therefore, our Elected Officials are going to have to ‘batten down the hatches’ or quickly announce their retirements. Moreover, the liberals and progressives have NO need to demonstrate any hesitancy in challenging the conservadems.
Jaango
I agree. When Sen. Grassley said the Democrats want to pull the plug on grandma it was an outrage, and it would have been a perfect opportunity for Obama to push back against that kind of rhetoric from the right. But instead he just said he would still try to work with Grassley.
Americans just don’t like weak people as leaders.
One term president.
On the next teevee visit could someone please Please PLEASE say something to the effect of,
“Well, those who are opposed to insurance reform lead by that Dick Armey group, um, FreedomWerkz.”
Perhaps “have joined with the Dick Armey effort; are led by the Dick Armey outfit; are standing with the Dick Armey coalition, etc.”
Spoken aloud, hilarity will ensue.
As a rule, Rethugs don’t read the Constitution. I’m sure they’ve added it to their long books-to-burn list.
we will only get true health care reform with a public option passed, unless and until those like baucus, conrad, nelson and bayh, realize the wrath of the american voter will be greater than their campaign donations. regardless of how large their campaign coffers are and from whom, they still have to face the voters.
you can fool some of the people all of the time (obviously, from the deathers, birthers, “i want my country back” town hall meetings)and all of the people some of the time; but you can not fool all the people all the time. there are too many of us who will not be fooled this time around and those who wish to obstruct, delay, water down and obfuscate need to know this.
we need to let any and all know, we will organize and bring down those who oppose the will of the majority of americans.
Jane “The House Dems have 77% of the country behind them.”
Such a solid point
I really wish the people who claim the Republicans have 41 Senators willing to join a Republican filibuster would back up their claims with names.
Why they feel they can blithely assert a vote count without giving any evidence that they’ve even looked at the individual Senators baffles me.
You give complete credence to a poll sponsored by organized labor, but you would no doubt sneer at any similar survey sponsored by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce or another business-oriented group.
[Edited by Moderator: commenting on this site is a privilege conferred to those who can be respectful of others views; it is not a right. The last two words of your comment were edited out because name calling, even when broadly directed at all others present, is strictly disallowed. Try to be more respectful of others or move on to somewhere that disrespect of other commenters is considered acceptable behavior.]
Well, aren’t we just full of good cheer today. Thanks for stopping by – now leave.
Because everybody knows organized labor is the real problem in our country right.
[Edited by Moderator: please see Freemas edit above. You know that name calling is not allowed; therefore, the last two word of your comment were edited out. Thank you.]
even Republican pollsters like Rasmussen are showing overwhelming support fo the public option. [Edited by Moderator: The last word of your comment was edited out for obvious reasons. Would everyone please take a deep breath and stop the personal attacks and name calling.]
i mean your heart has to go out to these delaying, obstructing, obfuscating dems: they are caught between the needs of those they were elected to represent (latest statistics show the very ones against health care reform come from states with the most uninsured) and their need for campaign donations to be re-elected; and make no mistake, that is their first priority.
The current suggestion is to split the bill into two bills: one with no “pre-existing conditions and a mandate to purchase insurance from the healthcare robber-barrons ; a second with a public option. Anyone care to guess which bill will get passed and which will be shot down? If they would tie the mandate with the public option, that would be ok, but apparently that is not the plan.
Hey Freemas, good morning to ya!!!
Polling results got ya down???
Damned sorry about that. Bet those last two elections were hard to swallow too, huh???
Well, look at the bright side. With any luck, a new comprehensive health care bill WILL pass and it will include a strong mental health portion as well.
I hear those therapy sessions and drugs for depression can be expensive.
Don’t fret though. We had to live through eight years of the biggest liars, thieves, and facists, which was very depressing, and we survived. Without health care for all too.
You’ll have it much easier. Rejoice!!!!!
The irony is that Birch Bayh (Evan’s father who served in the Senate also) would never have been the obstacle in a populist proposal such as health care expansion.
Someone should find out how Birch Bayh voted on Medicare.
We should put Harry Reid’s likeness up on Mt. Rushmore. He stopped the vote on health care until after the August recess which then gave the average American time to look at what is really in the proposals. Most Americans did not like what they saw.
The progressives want to ram something through before the average American can understand what it’s all about. Shame on you.
There is one force the progressives can not overcome (at least not for about twenty years). That force is the baby boomers (of which I am a proud member). I know there are a few of you out there that are baby boomers but most of you are generation X, Y and Z’ers. You folks grew up in the welfare state and think a free ride is what you’re entitled to.
Not so.
PS-sorry I’ve been away for a few days.
Geez, we have a twofer today.
That’s OK. Glad you got released. Now try and stay on your meds so you won’t end up back in that bad place again. It appears maintaining reality may be an issue, but there are lots of meds that can help.
DOH! Let me guess, you can’t afford ‘em????
Oh damned, too bad, so sad.
I’ll be pushing hard for that health care bill to even help you.
Good luck!
We didn’t miss ya.
And they’re soooooo lame. Candidates for the PissyPants award.
This is really a very relevant post!
This seems to give ideas and information with regards on the public status and issues on the community.
Web Hosting Reviews
I guess what the bills are all about is death panels, and all of the pure BS that the rethugs are espousing.
a baby boomer
Worse, I’m afraid.
We’ve even got a birther in another thread.
WHOOPIE, such fun.
Gotta admit though, maybe life is a little easier if you live it in a fantasy world. Only explanation I can think of for these nutjobs.
This might be a bad idea, so be genital.
But what if the government told the existing insurance companies to develop a “policy of last resort” category of health insurance within their offerings. 85% of Americans already have health insurance, so those who don’t can be forced to take up that plan. The government will pay premiums for those who can’t afford it, and dictate what type of coverage must be provided including accepting pre-existing conditions. The insurance companies can then back-charge the government if expenses exceed premiums paid since they’re forced to insure the otherwise uninsurable.
It’s publicly financed, but run by existing companies. It alleviates the concern of government taking over health care, and everyone’s covered.
Or is that not the point?
For the Republics, bipartisanship is a moving target. If the Democratic leadership in the Senate agrees to 80, and creates a craptastic enough bill to look like they might actually get to 80 votes, Hatch (or Cornyn or some other useless post-turtle) will come out and say that the right number ought to be 90. If they approach that, it’ll become 99 or something.
The only supermajority requirements in the Constitution regard
* veto overrides (2/3 supermajority required);
* expulsion of a member (2/3);
* impeachment trials (2/3);
* treaty ratification (2/3).
I know for a fact there are other supermajority requirements under Senate rules (3/5 to bring cloture, for example), but those are Senate rules.
So, Senator Hatch, please do us all a favor and blow it out your ass.
Hard to figure why they would be here when they don’t agree with anything we say and they don’t bother to actually engage us. Just spew hate and bile.
SO we can back a dump truck up to the treasury and deliver tax dollars to the vultures in the insurance companies.
That’s not the point.
We have that sort of high-risk pool here in NM. Our health insurance situation is bad, the pool keeps it from being awful. An important part of the idea is broaden the risk pool and go to broad community ratings to determine premiums.
But for that to work, we need to have the whole community paying in. No freeloaders.
Original Medicare (1965) did NOT pass with 80 votes. I think it was 68 to 21, mostly Democrats (57).
Analyzing a poll isn’t simply a matter of asking, “Who was the sponsor?” You have to look at the sampling mechanism and the questions that were asked. This is especially pertinent with hot-button issues like health care reform.
Frank Luntz was on Hannity yesterday, and pointed out that the results you get are determined by the question phrasing. Ask about a public option and you get support in the neighborhood of 60%+. Change the question to government-run health care and the number drops to just under 50%. Frank Luntz specializes in exactly this sort of word-smithing for effect.
He’s the guy who coined the phrase death tax for the estate tax. He’s done a bunch of other damage too. Hannity ate it up, and swore to never refer to a public option again.
Well I guess I know who my friends are.
I heard the story about Obama, during the primary, tell the story in reference to FDR, that he wanted the public ‘to make him’ support their cause. Well, when the public at 77%, want a public plan (other than co-ops) and besieges the WH after last weekend’s comments dissing a public option, did we make him do it? NO, not yet, anyways. He complained the left wing is being hysterical and going all wee-weed.
What will it take to ‘make him do it’ or was he being insincere?
We should start refering to the healthcare insurance as the vulture industry.
I just dealt with this locally at a Special Town Meeting:a motion to bifurcate the article because there was a distinct second part of the original article; it was considered ‘punitive’ to the entrenched powers when the ‘first part’ or the original was to ‘correct’ a specific action.
The entrenched powers, in a snit beause they were being questioned and critiqued at all over a decision they made, arrogantly got up and said No bifucation thinking that the whole could easily be defeated.
Voters said fine….no bifurcation….and the entrenched powers watched as their decision was overturned AND they lost their power to name municipal buildings…by over a 2 to 1 margin.
I say hold the politicians accountable….do not bifurcate…call their bluff.
“expulsion of a member (2/3)”
well, if (according to Orrin) it takes 80 votes to pass healthcare reform and the Constitution only requires 67 to fire a senator….
Interesting. He’s a force for good.
A clear thinking, easily understood, humorous, Nobel prize winning
economist/professor.
Didn’t notice you weren’t around i.e. you weren’t missed. Signed Baby Boomer
The worms are crawling out from under the rocks.
You apparently didn’t actually read the post.
Also, as someone with a degree in Government, I feel pressued to point out that, in fact, the presidencies of George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan are more closely associated with Gen X, not the Baby Boomers, so it is actually *less* likely that Gen X will be overrepresented on this website. In addition, Gen Z is composed of children who are, at oldest, nine years of age right now, and thus, it is also doubtful that they will be on this website.
Furthermore, Gen Y, as you put it, is not called Gen Y by… well, almost anyone. It’s usually referred to as the Millenials. (Likewise, Generation Z is referred to most often as the Digital Natives).
As a signed Millenial, I would just like to say that nobody missed you. Go back to Red State and wallow in the filth of your broken philosophies and misguided hatred. You do not understand the real world nor do you wish to.
You don’t understand the generations, and you clearly cannot understand that when polls say 77% of people wish to have the choice of a public option, it does not, in fact, mean that “most Americans did not like what they saw”.
There are things called facts. I believe you should check them.
No one on this board.
Hey! I’m a Generation Xer, and I resent being associated with Reagan and Bush!
I truly appreciate Jane’s and the FDL community’s work on behalf of a public option, however, I’ve been concerned about what exactly a public option would mean in terms of the existing legislative proposals and potential final compromises.
Have been receiving the HealthCare-Now! (Progressive Democrats of America) emails for some time and really sat up to take deeper notice today with their list of articles (I’ve not looked at all of them) but I”m assuming most are from he PNHP organzation. I want to commend the following info to folks:
There has been considerable confusion about the differences between single-payer healthcare, which Healthcare-NOW! supports, and the healthcare reform options, including President Obama’s “public option,” being introduced by the House and Senate.
So we’ve collected the following resources to clarify the difference:
Report Card for Single-Payer and “Public Option” (.pdf)
More of the Same Is Not Health Care Reform, It’s a Placebo – By Leonard Rodberg, PhD
Hold out for single payer – By Nick Skala
Bait and switch: How the “public option” was sold – By Kip Sullivan
The “Public Plan Option”: Myths and Facts
Health Policy Q & A with PNHP Co-founders Drs. David Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler (.pdf)
Tell them why they’re wrong when they say single-payer is not politically viable! (.pdf)
Based on my scanning of the highlighted articles, I really have to questions how and why we can promote PO without a hell of a lot of caveats and policy controls above and beyond the present levels of phenomenal network advocacy and fund raising achievements – wow, congratulations FDL!!!
I totally agree with Scarecrow that if there is no PO, there should certainly be no mandates or subsidies for private insurance.
I loved JM Firestone’s letter to Congressman James Moran of 081509; and letsgetitdone article on fixing the Obama message machine with Medicare for All, of 073009.
Help, help, I really am trying to comprehend, think and act responsibly in my advocacy efforts and time is running to meet newsletter deadlines, etc.
Blessings to all.
I don’t think the PO as formulated in the HELP bill can be covered under reconciliation. But here and here minimalist strategies for getting Medicare for All passed are given.
Bayh can be knocked off. He’s not exactly Mr. Excitement. On the other hand he will have a lot of money behind him.
Tom, I agree. The funny thing is that if you’re not prepared to defeat a bad bill, you can’t possibly get even a half-way good one. The problem is recognizing what is bad bill. From my point of view, every bill that has come out of committee so far is a bad bill. The only two good bills are HR 676 and S 703, and these are “off the table.” Somehow we’ve got to get them back on the table. That’s best, even if we want a good PO.
Blub, It doesn’t take 60 votes to get rid of the filibuster. See this one.
A March on Washington with a million people will do it.
Hi marchan1940, LGID and J. M. Firestone are one and the same, and I’m glad you liked those posts. Also, you may be interested in the three most recent posts here, if you haven’t seen them.
Sorry, but it’s true; on *average*, Gen X is most closely associated with George Bush and Reagan.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t the occasional wonderful exception, however. :)