Kil it JEEZUS kill it,before it get to the children….what a sad day. the fix was in from the beggining.they are just trying to make it look like a “reasonble” compromise. kill that fucker in the house. and spread the word from “the mountain top” Obama isnt our guy.

Whip the senate.
Start today.

Support the Members of congress is at $150,000+ right now. Way to go to send a message.

Jane, I can’t say enough how much I admire & appreciate your tenacity, your voice, and your insight in weaving together all these threads that have been deliberately tangled.

The reality you’ve so brilliantly illustrated is simply beyond disheartening.

I’ve long believed we’ll have no meaningful improvement on ANY major policies until we solve campaign financing. Until then, the big money owns the government and “we the people” are merely an inconvenience in their profit-making.

“the President has not plans “

should that be “has no plans”?

I’ze an eggspert on mizspling & mistyyping.

I say we start stoking the ‘idea’ that we are willing to kill the fucking bill from Baucus and Rahm. Dr. Dean and Trumka (Labor Guy) have already said similar things – and I think we just push that story for all it is worth.

Rahm will shit himself like he already is – because that would make 0-2 (health care loses). Live with that ‘Tiny Dancer’ on your resume. The problem with us Progressives is we like facts and tend to base our decisions on the greatest good for the greatest number. So in the end, we are the individuals that help write the history of this countries foundational premise to strive for ‘a more perfect union’ while in the ‘pursuit of happiness’.

Yes, if this reform effort goes down we need to ensure many others’ careers go down with it.

No one cares about typos, except those that have nothing to say anyway

BTW Obama SUX BALLZ

http://www.barackobama.com/

Please go there, click on the RVSP button, and ask a question similar to:

“Will you support HR 676, Medicare for all” for the OFA getalong tomorrow.

Dean is not JK. I hope that many that have had “change” blinders on will get behing the DFA effort as well. That organization has had the blinders off for a long time.

sorry for the huffington post manners..im still a little raw over all this.

Who is JK?

Just Kidding, Joking, Not serious, full of hope, etc.,

Glen and you are on the same page and clearly correct.

This is how things always work. The industry interests which own and control our government always get their way. When is the last time they didn’t? The “public option” was something that was designed to excite and placate progressives (who gave up from the start on a single-payer approach) — and the vast, vast majority of progressives (all but the most loyal Obama supporters) who are invested in this issue have been emphatic about how central a public option is to their support for health care reform. But it seems clear that the White House and key Democrats were always planning on negotiating it away in exchange for industry support. Isn’t that how it always works in Washington? No matter how many Democrats are elected, no matter which party controls the levers of government, the same set of narrow monied interests and right-wing values dictate outcomes, even if it means running roughshod over the interests of ordinary citizens (securing lower costs and expanding coverage) and/or what large majorities want.

* * * * *

That’s why this debate has now taken on such importance — regardless of whether you think a public option is important or even if you think it’s a good idea. Thanks in large part to the months-long efforts of Jane Hamsher and her FDL team — who spent enormous amounts of time and resources getting large numbers of progressive House members to emphatically commit on video to opposing any health care bill that lacks a robust public option — there’s actually a chance this time that the outcome could be different. If those progressive House members actually adhere to their pledge, they can and will block any health care bill that lacks a public option. They can actually thwart industry demands and the dictate of Beltway leaders; can empower a new faction in Washington (themselves) beholden to different interests (ordinary citizens); and can vest some actual significance in the outcome of the 2006 and 2008 election.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html

Having read the ambinder piece it seems pretty clear even someone who is more on top of it, is still getting it wrong. The idea that republican are more “interested than liberals” overlaps the other incorrect statement that its the house that is “trying to excite liberals”……

If McCain had been elected and if the GOP picked up seats in the last election then I’d understand the demise of the public option. As it is, I don’t. If Obama and the Dems don’t finesse, sell, or just plain force a public option then it’s all over but the HMO execs high-fiving. Passage of “reform” absent a public option is an admission that there is no real difference between the GOP and the Democratic party.

well it is absolutely infuriating.

Glad you all are organizing, but the public option is so weak that it makes sense to trade it away with the individual mandate, and only go for the consumer reforms, which can be passed by reconciliation, at this time.

Why are the wing nuts not going out of their heads about the individual mandate? You’d think that real aspect of the legislation would be more offensive to them than the phantom death panels. Even progressives are aghast at the notion that we’d be made a captive audience of an industry that peddles shoddy product which is often dangerous to one’s health. To do so would only empower the insurers, rendering them even stronger to oppose reforms next time.

Government financing of health care is critical but it has to be viable as a matter of policy implementation in order to achieve the minimal goals set forth. The Public Option as specified clearly does not make the cut.

Democrats should pass consumer protections that eliminate caps, recision, bans on existing conditions and the like now, claiming to have done no harm.

But the complexity of how the government gets into the business of competing with insurance is just too half baked for it to end up as good policy. This is not a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good, rather the good as the enemy of the bad.

I think that the inter generational opening here is to make Medicare solvent by allowing young folks to buy into it at the workplace, by taxes or with subsidy if they choose, and then take it as an entitlement for retirement. I believe that case can be made successfully to folks in the windy flat places where these Blue Dog Senators are from. Medicare already competes with private insurance and the world has not collapsed in upon itself.

Again, great work on organizing.

I’ve rec’d an invitation to a “closed” meeting tomorrow 8/20 at our local hospital (Frye Reg Med Ctr in Hickory NC) with Sen. Richard Burr. Physicians and office managers only, the invitation is quite specific about “no public attendance allowed”.

I don’t want to count on my memory, so I would love some stats and/or talking points I can bring along.

I don’t anticipate this to turn into a video worthy “town hall” but would like to get the word out so our side can be visual on the street.

Goe Demok-Rats!
That’s the spirit–stand up to the people who elected you. Stand up to your base! It’s much easier to accomplish things by constantly appeasing the ReThugs and wanna-be Rethugs(aka Blew Dawgz).
Forkin’ Village Bubble-heads…if it’s Dems doing what their constituents want, it’s “buckling”. Dems are only strong when they stand up to the base…
FEH!

FunnyWheelieDiva

there is no real difference between the GOP and the Democratic party.

The difference is that the national conversation has changed from terra terra booga booga to death panels socialism booga booga. Heh. That’s progress, right?

I just watched Jonathan Alters pitiful display on MSNBC, trying to ditch the PO like water out of a sinking boat. It was truely pathetic. I thought he was going to start crying. Im not exaggerating. I dont get it?? whats in it for him?? hes media not gov. To his everlasting credit Ed Shultz didnt give an inch, DEMANDING the PO.

That made me laugh out loud.

Here’s what I truly find most distressing about Jane’s superb take on the movement under the table. If a Health Care bill does not pass at all then Rahm will have made good on his end that no Public Option was created. That is his only commitment to this whole deal. He has a lot of momentum going for that outcome. Even if 60 progressives vote to kill a bad bill Rahm is a God to the K-Street money kings. His only demise would be that a Public Option did make it despite all his efforts to derail it by pushing triggers or co-ops. So, as Jane says, it’s up to “Us” to provide Rahm an outcome that completely backfires on him and is at the same time a “win” for all Americans whether they understand it or not.

Its obvious to us that the REAL problem isnt idealogical. There IS no idealogical “debate” its all “free market” rules and they run the government. Its exhasperating that 30% of the country sees everything as “govt” this and “govt” that. they dont understand that, as bad as it is, the govt is still the ony thing protecting them from ABOSLUTE cororate rule. that those corporataions represent a class, an economy seaparate from the other 95% of us. They dont seem to understant that that corporate class would be willing to enslave them. they would be willing to enslave thier chlidren, and not “unplug” gramma for 50 bucks, but sell her mortal remain to a dog food company for another 50 cents.

that those corporataions represent a class, an economy seaparate from the other 95% of us.

Exactly.

I’d just like to note that there is not a single named source from inside the WH in Armbinders entire piece.

Pathetic

Hope Harry Reid has enjoyed his time in the senate. If I were a Nevada Democrat, I wouldn’t bother taking a trip to the polls. Might as well have a rethuglican. He’s useless in the senate anyway.

“Support members of Congress who say “no public plan, no bill.”

A group of us are meeting with Rep Wilson(18th district) next week. Still waiting to hear from Voinovich. We sent in a request to meet

I’m confused as to why Obama would tackle this subject, expend the political capital, etc, if goal was only to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Better to have not raised false hopes. Better to aim for low expectations, like to regulate the worst abuses and call it a day, than to rally supporters to the mountaintop and then push them over the cliff with empty gift bags. What’s the point? What am I missing?

In Greenwald’s column, he writes, “ If anything, Blue Dogs — virtually all of whom represent more conservative districts — are more vulnerable and thus more dependent for re-election on the White House and Democratic Party infrastructure than progressives are.”

So, it is about party power? What good is having power if you are not going to use it?

If this exercise is about having corporate money flow to the D’s instead of the R’s, then that is as condemnable as what went down the last 8 years.

It’s pretty clear to me know what a strategy needs to be: the power of the progressive hold on the purse.

Progressives need to be the key holders and nay sayers on anything, ANYTHING that goes through the house.

We need to turn it into a badge of honor, rather than a pejorative, to say things like “President Grijalva” or “President Weiner.”

Seriously. And just like Jane advocated last year, “Pivot and ATTACK” when the stupid whitehouse says “we will withold support in your district in 2010″ say, “We will too! We’re going to run an ad with you on tape saying ‘Let’s negotiate with PHrMA on C-SPAN’ and remind them that YOU didn’t, and WE held your feet to the fire.”

I’ll bet progressives would pick up R votes with an ad like that.

But the point is for progressives to stop the rape of the people.

A lot of people need to get over their emotional attachment to this president. I swear they got a crush on him. If they would open up their damn star-crossed eyes and get past their childish celebrity worship, they’d see a man that has sold us out on efca, wall street bailouts, wall street bonuses, the recent pollution bill, the lack of cramdown, fisa, torture, his complete refusal to investigate the other bush crimes, etc., etc., etc. in the scant 6+ months he has been in office. We did not elect this jackass to run for reelection which is what he has been doing from day one by whoring around with corporate interests for campaign dollars. He’s been an absolute disgrace.

And the pope of hope is not a good man either. A good man does not sell out people’s health and lives for campaign dollars.

Ideas for health care slogans:

Unselfish Seniors For Universal Health Care: We have it and we want our children and grandchildren to have it too

Universal Health Care: To Save Lives and Livelihoods

Z

KO just said the Whitehouse is going to split the health bill into 2 parts and try to pass the more expensive part with just Dems.

I unsubscribed to email from Organizing For America this afternoon. They ask you to leave a reason why. I wrote this: “No public option = My vote did not count for anything”. I’m thinking, “What else can I boycott that will send a message to these master manipulators?”

Dems looking to split the healthcare plan into two parts??

That’s what I heard too. Rachel said she’ll be asking Bernie Sanders.

On reflection, this is an astonishing level of deceit.

Satan has been very busy these last few months

Now I know why you can’t really trust witnesses. I thought she said Barney Frank!

what does that mean?

Shit, I predicted yesterday that the bill would be split into parts so the Republicans could kill it more easily. I had not EVEN considered that the WH would assist.

how so………….mebbe dont tell me

Why am I glad and sad that I just moved to NZ? this is a pitiful situation.

Beats me, I don’t pretend to understand ANY of this stuff.

I don’t trust Ambinder or Greenwald to read minds. And I don’t really care what Obama or Rahm actually want. If there is no public option, then the progressive caucus MUST vote the bill down.

I know people are reluctant to believe that the President has no plans to include a public option in his health care bill…

i don’t want to believe it, but after the fisa flip flop i can believe almost anything.

Bernie up on Rachel, maybe he’ll splain it.

Bernie Sanders it is! Guess I just wanted it to be Barney Frank.

do you realize.that the humogous CEO payments and managerial bonuses,AND MILLIONS TO CONGRESSCRITTERS is BLOOOD MONEY THAT comes from denying LIFE SAVING TREATMENTS………….NAZIs

On the meme of “doing things too fast” “ramming through” “bi-partisan” that the R’s would demand HR 3200 to go into sections. Which would then introduce more delay and as I remember phrasing it “Death by 1000 cuts”

ive been looking into relocating to France

THAT I agree with. That part of the equation is simple.

Jane, I really, really appreciate all of your hard work and efforts. At this point, I am looking back at the feelings I had during the election season of the Democratic party doing what they have done for the last 30 years: counting on progressives and liberals to vote for them because they could never vote for a conservative Republican, and then dropping us into the deep end of the political ocean. And it’s happened. I saw and felt it when Obama appointed his cabinet, when he pivoted on Iraq and Afghanistan, when he continued the Bush secrecy policies.

I saw and felt it when the Wall Street banksters were given the government’s no-limit credit card, no strings attached, no reform in sight. I saw and felt it when the GLBT community was thrown under the bus the first time. I worked very hard to elect Obama and help turn Florida blue last November. I convinced coworkers, neighbors, and family members that Obama would bring change. Now I see and feel that I was a fool. I’ve taken a lot of flack for being critical of Obama. Meh.

The White House can’t bring itself to say a single negative thing about Blue Dog Democrats or crazy Republicans, whether in the congress or in the public. If a Democrat dares to speak the truth, the White House immediately slaps them down and shames them publicly. The democratic base and the progressive Americans are sharply criticized at every turn.

Yes, it’s only been 7 months. But I can’t see any way of looking at this except by saying that we were had. Big time. After the soreness of getting screwed yet again wears off, I will work with FDL to replace the a–holes in the next few elections. But boy, am I pissed now. . . .

hate to say it.but OUR CONGRESS are the real “DEATHERS”

WE must DEMAND the same health benefits our congress enjoys,at TAXPAYER expense

So why is Howard Dean so sure that a bill will be passed WITH a public option? Dr Dean was on earlier saying just that. He seems so sure.

Howard Fineman was on KO saying that a public option cannot be added back through Reconciliation due to some arcane senate rule. wtf?

It’s all really starting to make my head hurt.

Glad I bought a 100 count bottle of pain relievers earlier. Figured it would last longer than a couple days though :(

Jane does an enormous amount of very good work, for which I applaud her.

However, Jane, Glenn Greenwald and the folks at Open Left are constantly claiming to have read the inner soul of Obama. They present circumstantial evidence and make flat assertions of fact when it is really just opinion. That is also tiring to listen to.

I wish there was less of this ”I know what Obama is really thinking” stuff. I don’t really care. I just want results.

If corporate interests are the real master here, what’s to keep the Rethugs from voting for a Rahmobama bill that includes mandates, ineffective coops, meatless regulations?

Them and the Blue Dogs are a lot of votes.

Don’t think it would happen, but this latest kabuki has me really depressed.

this was the plan all along

That is what some of us have been saying for a long time now. It isn’t eleven dimensional chess or indecision. What Obama wants he goes for, and this is what he wants. Letting Lieberman back into the caucus and keep his chairmanship wasn’t an aberration or magnanimity. Obama is closer to Lieberman by far than he is to us. Like Lieberman, it isn’t much of a stretch for Obama to work with Republicans. But that isn’t the point. Obama can use his outreach to Republicans to mask making legislation more Blue Dog friendly. I think he knows that Republicans aren’t going to vote for any of his agenda no matter what he does. But the Blue Dogs will and that’s fine with him because that is where Obama is at ideologically. So once the Blue Dogs are onboard most of the other House Democrats follow suit and the last few votes are gotten by stripping off a few progressives by making the vote into a loyalty test. And why not? It’s worked so far.

Speaking factually, today there is overwhelming Robust scientific and medical evidence that Federal Government and State/Local Governments provided official allowances to Corporate America to pollute the water, air, land and food which has created the vast majority of disease states experienced by all people residing within the boundaries of this country.

A massive Class Action Lawsuit against all said parties needs now to be pursued which provides free health care to all and finally stopped all the corporate and government BS.

heard about the mercury toxicity today

Take their health care and make them work for minimum wage for a couple years. Most of them are rich enough they could get by but it might increase their empathy for for those less privileged in this country.

claiming to have read the inner soul of Obama

Horse hockey. All you need to do is stop listening to the pretty speeches and look at what he does and how he does it. I could care less about Obama’s inner anything. It is his actions that concern me.

I care what he’s thinking. And I understand the cynicism. It could be that Obama is the master manipulator of all time. I’m just not convinced yet.

For now, just kill the bill if there’s no PO.

Byzantium Rules ! I Knew Obama just fell asleep too near one of those Pods.
I keep thinking of Bush and his garbled blabbering about “Fool Me Once….etc….”We have been fooled. But not again. It really is time to strike back Hard. There is nothing to lose anymore.
Now its time to go open a bottle of my best wine and beat my head against a convenient wall.
ah well, in the immortal words of our Great Southern Female Philosopher ..”Tomorrah Is another day”

they have no empathy gene,called MALIGNANT Narcissism,,,sorry to report

And the reasons for doing so have to be really clear. Some are about healthcare and cost of care and premiums and some reasons are about political leverage. We will squander our opportunity to push back the health insurance industry if we give them a mandate for us all to buy coverage without exacting a fair price in return. That price could be intense regulation and micromanagement of the monopoly that the industry has become. Or, that price could be a public plan just like Medicare and just as efficient w/o any hobbling preconditions. We need to be absolutely clear that it is unacceptable to move forward with this legislation w/o their meeting their part of the bargain. We need to be really clear that the very fact that they would consider moving forward with this proves beyond any doubt that they are only considering the interest of their campaign donors in the health industries. The scales are tipped low with goodies for industry and are empty of anything good for the people.

Glen is correct. The interests which get served time and time again are NOT the people, but the corporations.

The voting only puts a veneer of democracy on the kabuki.

It’s corporatism… the people don’t matter. They are constantly suckered into believing it is THEIR government. It is the government of the corporations.

When will they get it?

The class war is over – the people lost – the capitalists won. The rest is all show.

The only good thing I can say about trading a public option for individual mandates is that at least that will have the effect of making things no worse than they are now. Unfortunately, I don’t see how it makes things any better. The insurers and the big medical companies have gotten their way. Why would I not expect that they’ll get their way when it comes to setting up the rules they must now follow and the agencies that will enforce them?

The answer, based on our experience of the last couple of decades, is that we can’t.

my departed dad had a word for it
CONVERSATION

no action=conversation period

The blue dogs and the republicans are proxies for big business which is why the whorehouse likes to “work” with them. It gives them a cover to do what they want to do: dance around suggestively, giggle and please the big corporate campaign donors.

Z

ROTFLMFO X1000

I’m getting analysis whiplash.

I suspect what they do for their corporate masters involves more kneeling.

and they still almost blew it
TILL OBIE BAILED EM OUT WITH our money

Obama once gave me hope, now he’s taken it away.

me too,and really nauseous

a public plan just like Medicare and just as efficient w/o any hobbling preconditions.

medicare is a single payer, a public plan in a multi payer system can’t be as efficient. i know dr. dean gets this wrong all the time (shame on him).

we will be lucky if we dont get chained to the oars imo

Hoss, if Glenn and Mz. Hamsher are correct, and we’ve put ALL this effort into change, and we ain’t getting it?

The specter of what must come to EFFECT change is citizen discontent, in the streets, marching, carrying signs, and DEMANDING change.

Work stoppages (but as someone or more in this Lake already said, “I can’t risk losing my job”, and there ya go.

Coal miners, laborers, unions all lost their jobs, they lost their lives for what they believed in.

This CHANGE is NOT white collared protestations. It’s not gonna be keyboard activity.

If we’re shut out of healthcare reform with all this work, then it’s gonna take some serious dissent, peaceful dissent, but MASS peaceful dissent to send the messages. And yes, loss of jobs and more will likely be required.

We either fight for what we want, or we accept that it’s a continually lowered standard of living for the most of us, and our children, from here on out, as general resources (both natural and man made goods and services ) shrink and fewer get to have them.

I’d sure like to think we still got hope for this HC Reform, that’s a precursor to further change and the loosening of the reins the oligarchy of corporate feudalists has on us all. Cuz if we don’t, it’s gonna get ugly.

“Government financing of health care is critical but it has to be viable as a matter of policy implementation in order to achieve the minimal goals set forth. The Public Option as specified clearly does not make the cut.”

That’s quitter dialogue, this fight ain’t over yet. Are you already out of fight?

Sorry, but it means our premiums are going up again.

Plantation is run by the old rich white guys,Obie was a token

What recent history has shown is that:

they can ignore public opinion
they can shape public opinion

They lied the public into war in Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan
They lied about the financial crisis
They lie about the health industrial complex

They know that the american people are not going to do a thing about it.
The american people won’t take back their government. They know it.

jane is working her ass off to try to prevent this from being an even bigger disaster than it looks to be shaping up to be.

how high the moon..jeebs

Rayne’s Diary promoted!
Idle thoughts about health care

Dem’s are only strong when the base stands up to THEM!! *G* *waves*

Yer Funny Again! Good to have ya back . . . ;-)

There’s something wrong with this picture. There are two reasons for promoting a public health care option (or simple public care tout court). The first is that it is morally necessary, unless you think health care should be rationed by income, as it presently is. The second is that the current system is economically unsustainable. The country cannot afford simultaneously to spend 16 percent of its GDP on health and the amount it currently spends to support its military adventures, not to mention the looming repayment of the social security debt, which comes due in about four years. Something’s got to give. I am not putting my money on military adventures or social security. That means health care. People are either going to be systemically sicker, or we will get some kind of cheaper health care. That is what is driving Obama’s plan, not political advantage. He doesn’t need that to ensure re-election. The Rethugs are doing that for him.

I think when the crunch comes, we will have some kind of public option with reasonably effective cost control. If we don’t, and if the worst comes to pass, the Chinese will pull the plug on our line of credit.

she is a Saint,in my small way,i had a rally at the local Sat.market,had a singer and country duo…we gave out 850 printed brochures in90 degree weather
FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION

Jon Alter, AlterNet? Say it ain’t so, solerso . . . . damn, that suckages . . . *sigh*

This is the inescapable truth. I’m ready-that I do know. What I don’t know is how many are ready to get off there ass and make a statement?

from Glenn’s piece – nice to see him linked from here again!

Over the past decade, the Democratic Party has specialized in offering up one excuse after the next for its collective failures. During the early Bush years, the excuse was that they endorsed Bush policies because his popularity and post-9/11 hysteria made it politically unwise to oppose him. In later Bush years when his popularity plummeted, the excuse was that Democrats were in the minority and could do nothing. After 2006 when they won a Congressional majority, the excuse was that Bush still controlled the White House and had veto power. After 2008 when a Democrat won the White House, the excuse was that Republicans could filibuster.
Now that they have a filibuster-proof majority, a huge margin in the House and the White House, the excuses continue unabated, as Democrats are now on the verge of jettisoning one of the most significant attractions for progressives to the Obama campaign — active government involvement in the health insurance market. The excuses for “compromising” are cascading more rapidly than ever: We need Republican support to ensure it’s bipartisan. The Blue Dogs won’t go along with what we want. Centrist Senators will filibuster. There are similar excuses being made to defend Obama from accusations that he deserves some of the blame for the failure of the “public option.”

and, every step of the way, those excuses were good enough to satisfy Least Worsters, and so here you are today, once again acting surprised when your adulation and devotion to the Donkey Party is spurned and scorned.

Good luck holding those you have bound to your pledge – a commendable effort it was, but they will begin to wiggle desperately as the Obama WH turns a little pressure on them – and what can Netrootsia wield as a counter-deterrent?

primary challenges are great, in theory, but incumbents know they usually will prevail.

will 3rd Party and (I) runs finally be acknowledged as needed for leverage?

if not, all the plaintive calls, faxes and letters will be tossed by young interns into the bins with all the others, and the Washington consensus will go on undisturbed, secure in the knowledge that the Left-ish portion of the Democratic Party can be forever used as a f*ck-toy, if you’ll excuse the salty language, but that might be how Rahm himself would phrase it, and he would be correct.

i had a rally at the local Sat.market,had a singer and country duo…we gave out 850 printed brochures in90 degree weather

you rock!!!

we need orginization,i went to DC in 06

the whole deal only cost 250 bux…we might do it again,we are now doing a letter writing campaign

old 50s R&B song..paraphrased…

Take your ‘Hope’ and shove it
I’ve had my fill of it.

FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION

my grammy was a SUFFRAGETTE

Jane, kudos and thanks.

Here are sixteen (16) states, starting from the top of the alphabet and leaving out the largest populations (California, Illinois) to come up with a total of what America would ‘look like’ if you put the population on a map of the states to show how many Americans do not have health insurance — in ’states’ view:

POP // State Name
———————
4447100 Alabama
626932 Alaska
5130632 Arizona
2673400 Arkansas
4301261 Colorado
3405565 Connecticut
783600 Delaware
8186453 Georgia
1211537 Hawaii
1293953 Idaho
6080485 Indiana
2926324 Iowa
2688418 Kansas
4041769 Kentucky
1274923 Maine
902195 Montana

49974547

Source: Wikipedia’s US population page.
————————————-

And this is only ONE way to total the number of ’state’s worth of citizens’ who do not have health care.

I’ve not added up the Dem/Rep Senators for these states, but maybe someone else has a handy answer…? It would be interesting to know how many GOP Senators (there are 40) represent a total of 50,000,000 Americans. I’m guessing that if you could overlay the GOP Senators, you’d come up to something pretty close to 50,000,000, but actually haven’t reality tested the idea with any data yet.

This quick little exercise did lead me to ponder how possible combinations exist of ’states worth’ of uninsured citizens in the US in 2009.

But hey, it’s so good to know that Rahm doesn’t think of these key issues in terms of “the equivalent of combined populations of 16 of the 50 states”, because he’s willing to trade away otherwise sane legislation in hopes that the Republicans will ‘compromise’.

From Alabama to Montana, we got ‘uninsured citizens’ who could fill up the populations of entire states. Wow, so glad that we elected all those Dems the past two elections. (Sound of gnashing teeth and sputtering…)

Will send a Photoshop map to illustrate within next hour. rOTL

WH and conservadems in the tank. Sold us out.

many will die needlessly,others will GO BROKE

All I can report is that my attempts to reach the Whitehouse (202-456-1111) was a busy signal from open to close of business every day since Monday. Clearly, me and everyone else is trying to weigh in.

You’re right, and that has been the obstacle. I went to the bankster demonstration a few months ago. There were only 100 of us in SF, and only about 5 under age 40. We have to have the colleges involved. They’re the ones graduating into no jobs. Where are they and how do we merge with them?

that line is ALWAYS busy when i call it
ALWAYS

I fear that many of the dems, and the majority of the reps, are backstopped by promises of big paying jobs at corporate and lobbying entities in the event they don’t get reelected as long as they take care of their corporate constituents. Our leverage as citizens is based upon the notion that our representatives fear not getting reelected and therefore will work to please us. Once that is eliminated by the “consolation prize” of a millions of dollars of year job if the pols take one for the corporate team, then we have no effective leverage within the political system at all … even with pooling our dollars together for campaign contributions becoz we can’t offer them an insanely big paying job in the event they lose.

Ideas for health care slogans:

Unselfish Seniors For Universal Health Care: We have it and we want our children and grandchildren to have it too

Universal Health Care: To Save Lives and Livelihoods

Z

and mine was the first woman head of a union in PA. We still have what it takes, we need a leader and direction.

I didn’t get that either, I used to like Alter but he threw the public option and all of us under the damn bus.

i had my purse,and all my belongings stolen in the DC train station,the police acted like i was a terrarist,and the folks i marched with ,made fun of me,i shitteth you not…that is NOT MY CUP OF TEA…..

yes we can do

he has always been a high paid corp shill,sorry to say…Alternet…is Eric Alterman i believe

your so right about that

WTF? I REALLY don’t get shooting down your brothers and sisters in the fight. Makes no forkin sense to me. Shows your tenacity to keep in the fight. I salute you.

good point – many would take the fall and continue corporatist policies even if it meant the likelihood of being defeated by a (R) or an (I) or a combination thereof.

but, at least they’d be defeated, and a modicum of justice could be done, examples would be made, and the district would be readied for further challenges . . .

look at the Dems…all are not stellar personages im afraid…g

Eli is upstairs at the Mothership!
Great Moments in False Equivalency

It’s NEVER been idealogical about ANY civil rights, human rights and such.

Ask those who died fighting for their lives and family’s lives on the union lines.

Ask those coal miners.

Ask the working men and women and their family’s when the corporate 1% sent gunthugs to silence them, time after time in our history. When the railroads took land and life away from property owners.

It’s ALWAYS been the masses against the 1% entrenched.

Thruout all history!

I’ve pumped this meme forever. It’s a simple one.
Alas, it don’t get much play.
And I’m not even a Marxist! *G*

But if EVERYone used that lens to frame the LOOK at things, then the responses and actions to DEAL and WRESTLE with what a person’s worth in life would be MUCH different, and MUCH less tolerant.

All within the law, of course. I’m as guilty as many of the masses for sleeping thru the politics of the 70’s and 80’s and 90’s to some extent as I fought my way into the middle class.

And then, I woke up one day, and saw we were ALL getting fucked, and had been, for 30 years or more. Again, still.

And all that history came rushing back at me, from the writings of Studs Terkel to our present day heroes who don’t cringe from telling the truth of the mass middle class struggle. Sy Hersh, bless ya. There’s more like him, too.

So.

We either fight, or live with the consequences. Now is the time to fight, with pen, voice, keyboard, and maybe before this HC Reform is over, with bodies in the streets, coast to coast, in peaceful protest.

Anyone got better? (aside from the present work of FDL, Inc. which is OUTSTANDING!)

Good luck holding those you have bound to your pledge – a commendable effort it was, but they will begin to wiggle desperately as the Obama WH turns a little pressure on them – and what can Netrootsia wield as a counter-deterrent?

They’re already doing it. And what’s with the past tense (”was”)? Is the fight over? What are you doing to help? Are you calling your congressperson and asking them to take the pledge? Are you donating to ActBlue (see link above)?

There is still plenty of time to fight and now isn’t the time to go all wobbly, there will be plenty of time for cynicism when it’s all over but for now, keep your eyes on the prize.

“If this exercise is about having corporate money flow to the D’s instead of the R’s, then that is as condemnable as what went down the last 8 years.”

I continue to struggle with that viewpoint and the Dimensional Chess viewpoint.

I’m SO frustrated about the lack of clarity to rant, vent, support on! lol

So I’ve decided to hold out hope, until this reform is over.

After that, it’s gloves off for all the dem’s who sold us out.
I’ll support ANY attempt to burn them in ‘10.
Cuz, we won’t really HAVE any reason to prevent GOP gains, at that point, will we?
Given, it’s all corporate feudalist driven, and proven.

Sigh, it’s like Nixon was still in office. Or Reagan.
Guess it’s always felt like that, though.
After JFK, MLK, RFK.

Man did that close the door on we the people, looking back on it all.

First, your appearance on Rachel’s show was brilliant, Jane. We could sure use your contributions on the tube more, if you could stomach it. Nailed everything!
Second, I note that the latest email from the cowards dominating the Obama White House contains the slimy phrase “health insurance reform.” Not health care reform. No. “Health insurance reform.” I don’t recall that phrase being used during the Obama campaign. Had it been, it would have cast an early cloud over his candidacy. So after all this wrangling, the invertebrates in the Senate are going to effect insurance reform–and we have no way of knowing if that means to benefit us or the insurance companies.
Third, does anyone know–is there a special form you have to fill out to bribe Baucus?

yes we can not throw in the towel and make it easy for them

so true
shamefull

Since acting individually is ineffective our effort should focus on collective action. It should also be directed at first instance to our representatives and senators who are at our immediate grasp.

Meetings should be convened at the local level and coordinated among the area for maximum effect. I suggest a sharing of emails among residents within localities to establish dates for meetings for the purpose of forcing our elected official to abide by our goals of initiating sweeping changes in the way health care is delivered.

An enunciation of the changes to be advocated need to be established and would include at a minimum the PO. Action is crucial and we should deliver a unified mass demand to our elected officials to support our shared goals should begin at once.

It would be a monumental mistake to allow the present health initiative now before the congress to be fractioned or waisted. Nor should we submit ourselves to the wishes of backward hicks from the south to mandate how we should structure crucial aspects of our lives.

7 million $ is for openers i believe

He hasn’t expended any political capital. He’s not using it at all; he’s just coasting on the good will from the election and the inauguration.

Too bad; if he tried a little harder, he’d discover he has a helluva lot of political capital available. (Rahm, on the other hand ….)

at minimum,we should DEMAND the same health choices they enjoy,at taxpayer expense…that is simple to understand

my poster reads

I WANT COOPERS HEALTHCARE

you must not know me very well, old chap.

my advocacy is around real reform, like HR 676, and courageous groups like:

http://www.singlepayeraction.org/

this whole public option thing is theater, kabuki, but many folks are learning important lessons from it.

what I meant by the past tense ‘was’, was, that the phase of getting congresscritters to take the pledge will soon be transitioning to the phase of keeping congresscritters to the pledge.

How does that work? What gets thru?

It is going to get very ugly …

The citizenry is not yet sufficiently educated to the truths you delineate.

Only massive, wide-spread suffering will, apparently, allow the public to understand that they MUST insist upon justice and reason.

As civility drains rapidly away from what passes for society in America, things will become very ugly indeed.

And then, the demagogues must surely have their day …

In some years time, twenty years or thirty years perhaps, whatever pitiful remnants of the once proud and “exceptional” American public who are still capable of reason, will realize too late, that they should have been paying attention to what was going on around them, rather than arrogantly and ignorantly seeking their own comfort and a ’safe’ distance from their fellow citizens who were ‘different’, not to mention sanctioning the killing of other human beings around the world in the name of ‘free enterprise’ … with the purpose of enriching their ‘betters’ who comprise the Political and Corporate Classes.

Doubtless they, who would think and reason, will be maligned and vilified for expressing negativity and practicing empathic politics, thereby upsetting all the good folks waiting patiently for their daily ration of gruel in a resource-starved world.

The only things of ‘value’ possessed by most citizens will be whatever parts of their bodies they can sell.

Everything will be more and more expensive.

Excepting human life, which will become cheaper and cheaper, until it is worth nothing at all … and the only ‘persons’, beyond the elites, who flourish will be ‘corporate’ persons, which feel no pain, which suffer no doubt, and which are, essentially, immortal … That is America’s true legacy, the creation and empowerment of the corporate ‘person’.

The next Dark Age will be the last.

Behold! The Divine Right of Money. The greedy destroyer of worlds.

Yet, it need not be this way … even if that’s the way the ‘top’ two percent may desire it.

The other ninety-eight percent of human beings ought to have the courage and fortitude to insist upon something better, more humane and civilized.

The public option is ill-defined, unproven, complex, and the state precedents we have for it do not demonstrate that it will be successful.

So, I can think of two reasons why no bill is better than a bad bill:

1. If the policy outcome of the “public option” is a mandate that forces millions to buy junk insurance, then millions end up worse off. Today, they pay nothing, and get nothing. Under the mandate, they’ll be forced to pay, and get junk. (And to those who argue that regulations will prevent that, please point me to the mechanism in HR3200 that gives citizens recourse. Yes, there are ombudsmen; no, they don’t have conflict resolution powers, unlike typical Federal ombudsmen.)

2. Since the “public option” leaves the insurance companies firmly in place, and in fact guarantees them a market through the mandate, they’ll simply divert a portion of their revenue stream to more lobbying activities, and true reform (that is, Medicare for All) will be pushed even farther off. So where the incrementalists argue that’s the only way progress is made, in fact progress would be pushed further off.

wow

Hmmm . . . great negative analysis, and likely spot on in many facets.

But, it don’t answer, how do ya account for the 60-100 Progs in House who say they WON’T vote for without the PO? It’s the only point missing from yer missive . . . just askin. Always like your stuff.

I’m a senior citizen on medicare as well as my blind wife. I’ve been a
liberal democrat my whole life here in the deep south which is pretty lonely.
I, too, support the public option for everyone. I’m not one of these “scared
seniors.”
Even though my wife and I have two policies, I have been surprised at the bills we have to pay. Even with co-pay we have to pay $800.00 on medicines a month on a fixed income, but we are well off. At least I have insurance. I don’t know how those without it, make it. We should help these people.

Because they beleive that with the corporate maoney they get, they can stave off republicans wins in the next cycle. at this point who cares about the next cycle.

I got an e-mail from “Mitch Stewart, BarackObama.com” which contained nothing but a link to rebutting Corporatists lies about blood sucking parasite Health Insurance. FDL and others had done that already in real time. It does link to another page to “Take Action” which I did by telling them PO or NO DO-nations.

There was a completely wimpy statement. Not nearly enough for me. White House, please get a vertebrae.

Every American must have the freedom to choose their plan and doctor – including the choice of a public insurance option

http://my.barackobama.com/page…..rce=record

nicely stated.

making similar points is a huge, long piece by Andrew Coates MD:

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/0…..ritics-of-“bait-and-switch-how-the-‘public-option’-was-sold”/

not only does the Democrats bill guarantee the insurance cartel a market, it could actually become a huge subsidy, or bailout.

“Public option” advocates should start talking about the “public option” as if it were inextricably tied to an insurance industry bailout. They should write the phrase “public-option-insurance-industry-bailout” on a Post-it note and paste it to their bathroom mirror to remind them to be honest with themselves and the public about this fact.

To sum up: “Public option” proponents who claim that any “public option” is better than no “public option” because even a skinny little program can be beefed up later are sadly mistaken. A weak “public option” may not survive to be beefed up later, and whether it survives or not, it will serve as fig leaf that will let Congress justify an insurance industry bailout. A strengthened insurance industry is the last thing either the “public option” or the single-payer wing of the universal coverage movement needs. Please say after me: A weak public option is far worse than none at all.

oh my thats steep brownie
many dont make it
the estimate is 22,000 people die from lack of health care per year,ill bet its more

Heysoos effin christoscopia Sander, that’s a bit grim to quit this soon in life, doncha think?

You ain’t old enuff to quit. You can’t quit us! We won’t let ya!!!

Now get back on page for cryin out loud or you’ll be spanked by Delay AND sent to bed without supper.

*G*

Hoss, or hossette, hang tough. It AIN’T over, no matter WHAT shit spin we read!!!

We’re being tested, we’re being challenged.

It’s part of life’s history that people are challenged thusly, when BIG SHIT is at stake.

Big Shit IS at stake. We’re challanged.

Dig in, and fight. *G*

I’d like to back the progressives in the House who have drawn the line on not voting for a bill with no robust public option, but I’d rather avoid rewarding a possible kabuki. If they actually do it, I will throw money at them. But not till then.

About punishing democrats that have been playing us… can we all decide to not vote in 2010 and tell them that we are not voting because we don’t matter, since they serve the corporate master? Would that get a message to them like creating primary contests? Also, what chance do you think there is of the public funded campaign becoming reality? Wouldn’t that solve the whole corporate money bribing congress thing?

i beleive hes just about spent. i dont feel any good will toward him. o one in my familly does either. we all worked for his campign and sent the lying bastard money. i think he has used it up

Heh, I read that and thought I’d seen “My Ass Is Getting Whipped” . . . gotta admit, this shit’s really, really hard to follow. And that’s likely part of someone’s strategy. To make it hard to follow, so we give up.

Hang tough. *G*

I feel you. what happened to out culture? to our vitality?

So, yer outta fight too?

I don’t buy that, I don’t support that, I don’t accept that.

You fight. You ain’t no Kwitter.

i dont either,he speak with FORKED SILVER tongue

Im gettin old……………guess i gotta lttle piss and vinegar left..g

Nice Les Paul and Mary Ford insert . . . *G*

How High The Moon

I lurves me Les and Mary . . . *waves*

Emerson, at some point, when things get bad enough, EVERYone will be in the streets.

You just can’t HAVE a wealth differential as we are having and heading into worse, and NOT have the poor rebel.

History. It PROVES it!

waves back
didja see what were up against…fromKos

At least one major insurer is urging its employees to participate in tea parties.

Last week, UnitedHealth Group–the second largest health insurance company in the country–sent out a letter to its employees urging them to call UHG’s United for Health Reform Advocacy Hotline to speak with an advocacy specialist about health care reform. The advocacy specialist, according to the letter, is there to help UHG employees write personalized messages to elected officials, and to arm them with talking points to use at local events in order to better oppose the public health insurance option.

never heard it spedup like that….teh good

You out yerself.
Get out of my foxhole.

Because acting individually is ineffective our effort should focus on collective action. It should also be directed at first instance to our representatives and senators who are at our immediate grasp.

Meetings should be convened at the local level and coordinated among the area for maximum effect. I suggest a sharing of emails among residents within localities to establish dates for meetings for the purpose of forcing our elected official to abide by our goals of initiating sweeping changes in the way health care is delivered.

An enunciation of the changes to be advocated need to be established and would include at a minimum the PO. Action is crucial and we should deliver a unified massive demand to our elected officials to support our shared goals and to do so publicly.

It would be a monumental mistake to allow the present health initiative now before the congress to be fractioned or waisted. Nor should we submit ourselves to the wishes of backward hicks from the south to mandate how we should structure crucial aspects of our lives.

i aint walking into the volcano for nooooooooooooooooobody

That’s great shit ROTL! Thanks!

And Baucas? Grassley? 2% of the population telling US what we can get?

They don’t rep me . . . may they slip on their own bile and incur great injury.

You have said it much better than I could’ve. Obama is something of a huckster.

Big Pharma is running a pro-healthcare reform ad in Washington State featuring Senator Maria Cantwell. What a crock! Please, Washington People and others, can we target Maria with emails and calls and let her know how repulsed we are with this betrayal of this phony ad. Maria, we are not that stupid. You are on the corporate dole.

Anyone else concerned about Stephanopolis’s comment about secret deals to get the Clinton’s/Bill involved??

While most poo pooed the thought, Bills appearance at NN while saying he ’savors the public option”, also said “We need to pass a bill and move this thing forward..”

I think they’re playing the “Well we tried, but.”

And now?? Just out – Senate Dems have another another insider strategy to divide the bills.
That’s Harry Reid’s MO, in a nutshell.

They’re going to try to f*** us one way or another, aren’t they?

Now we know why Raaaahhhhm was hired. F***ing people is his specialty.

heyall
REMEMBER THE GREAT BOOK
SOPHIES CHOICE?our healthcare is TURNING INTO ..Sophies Choice
WHICH BABE WILL BE SACRAFICED?

or Hobsons Choice
Im so confused

I fear that will be too late Larue. Unfortunately, time could be about up now.

i lived through Kent State..oy…bad memories

Not quite what I meant or where I was headed, but you got the gist.

We stand, or we fall.

This is an epic time on the history of the species.

*G*

May I suggest you write a diary re this ? Also ask Jane to get involved maybe? She’s a leader.

No Public Option? After the push back this weekend? I think we elected the wrong guy. I am sad. ( No, I don’t mean we should have elected McCain, I think maybe what we thought was Hope was really just hype.)

really look at these old white gray heads in their 1000 dollar suits
realpigs

http://online.wsj.com/article/…..44647.html

We don’t KNOW what the Public Option is.

Other than released HR3200 and HR676, we have NO idea what those bills are now.

We know NOTHING. That’s actually on the table.

Your posit seems a bit, awkward, given we don’t KNOW that the bills are, or what’s being discussed behind closed doors.

I guess, I disagree with your assessment as to where we are.

Hope ya don’t mind.

Here in the West, “Conservatives for Patients Rights” is the one contacting it’s conservatives in each members district listing all the townhall locations. They ruined several here in Arizona.

This outfit is run by right-wing whacko Rick Scott, whose ex company Columbia HCA, was convicted of the largest health care fraud case in US history. http://thinkprogress.org/2009/…..dvocating/

This new group CPR has links to.. you guessed it: Freedom Works.

Because acting individually is ineffective our effort should focus on collective action. It should also be directed at first instance to our representatives and senators who are at our immediate grasp.

Meetings should be convened at the local level and coordinated among the area for maximum effect. I suggest a sharing of emails among residents within localities to establish dates for meetings for the purpose of forcing our elected official to abide by our goals of initiating sweeping changes in the way health care is delivered.

An enunciation of the changes to be advocated need to be established and would include at a minimum the PO. Action is crucial and we should deliver a unified mass demand to our elected officials to support our shared goals should begin at once.

It would be a monumental mistake to allow the present health initiative now before the congress to be fractioned or wasted. Nor should we allow ourselves to be subject to the wishes of backward hicks from the south to mandate how we should structure crucial aspects of our lives.

the pic of the Dem senators is at Huffpo………………vomit

Jane, have you looked at these proposed medicare/medicaid cuts at all? Not to go all Sarah Palin, but it’s starting to worry me. I have to say, Obama has surrounded himself with a number of pro-old people health care rationers, Rahm’s brother, Cass Sustein. This from Nat Hentoff, http://jewishworldreview.com/c…..1909.php3,(not exactly a winger) does, well, worry me. And, then, if these cuts are so instrumental, why hasn’t Obama appointed anyone to administer Medicare? Hope nothing is getting over looked right in plain sight.

Bless ya, may the deity of our choices support ya and well, at least you are well off.

And thanks for being what you are, down there . . . without money, it would be hell, wouldn’t it.

expose these GRIMM REAPERS
shit wish i knew THE PHOTO SHOP

The 60-100 Democrats who have said they will vote no if there is no public option were left out of the White House’s analysis. Even so they are still working off their original game plan. The Senate still has to weigh in and beyond that there is the conference committee. It is getting really hard to tell what of this is real and what is kabuki. If given the choice, I think Obama and Rahm would go with co-ops over a PO. It is really the way all of their pro-corporate proposals have been trending. We have even seen attempts to conflate co-ops with the PO. What this tells me is that they will kill off the PO if they think they can get away with it. They may not believe that the Democratic opposition in the House to this is real or stand up when a final vote comes. This is where they are I think.

Compare their positive reception of the co-ops to their treatment of the PO. The PO has been reduced markedly in scope, has been delayed until 2013, made as weak as possible, made more expensive relative to Medicare, and nobody even knows what’s in it. So even if a PO makes it into the bill, it is likely to be watered down even further. The advantage to including a truly sham PO is that it would make it even harder for House Democrats to vote against. You said you wanted a PO. Here’s a PO. There’s nothing to it but that’s not what you asked for. I think this is their fallback position.

What we need to be getting from the potential House Democratic opposition is a commitment not to support a bill without a PO available from day one to all with rates comparable to Medicare. Otherwise I am afraid the House Dems will be given a sop and vote for the bill.

That’s a great question Sol . . . I’m not sure, I’m not that well versed.

I tend to do simplistic analysis based on my education and experiences (lived overseas in SE ASIA in the 50;s).

My take is it’s NOT our society, it’s history.

Like the biblical struggles (dawg help me for goin religon on this I’m agnostic) show, and pre biblical history shows, and pre USA, and post USA history shows, it’s a constant struggle ‘tween have’s and have not’s.

And people of power seek to consolidate that power, whether it be in the interest of their followers, or not.

I’m GREATLY opposed to holders of power, who prove they dont’ have the masses interests and welfare at heart.

Cuz I think they’ve mostly outed themselves as willing to let others die for their gain.

History, kindo sorta proves that.

If yer not PART of the 1%, yer screwed. Only our citizenry to date, is just now discovering this. *G*

Hope so, you, and I, and ours, all need you.
And us. *G*

I can only think of what a really, really insane woman I know and love dearly who went to New York and bought and gave me a T Shirt.

I feel this way about what the T Shirt Reads and how I feel about corporate feudalism of all kinds.

The T Shirt Read:

FUCK YOU YOU FUCKIN FUCK!

I have yet to wear it to a fest or even indoors.

It sits in drawer. But I’m thinkin, the time might be drawing near when I want to wear it.

*G*

thanks,it really is about community isnt it?ruttoh commune…pinkooooooo

We are truly at the crossroads.

And there appears to be a shortage of moral compasses …

For a society which considers history to be ‘bunk’ (”We don’t study history. We make it!”) we’ve little ‘perspective’ and our myths are destroying the future right before the eyes of those of us who choose to see …

But what you referred to, the sacrifices made by so many, is not in the mental ‘picture’ of most Americans today, someone else is to make the sacrifice … as most still see no compelling reason to risk anything on a personal level.

Only when enough, or even most people, have ‘nothing to lose’, will the kind of ‘cost’ of ‘change’ you most honestly describe seem acceptable and be understood as necessary.

The species, seemingly (in fact, actually) is on the fast track to self-destruction (one way or another), yet most people cannot or will not grasp that reality.

If one accepts this reality, then one either does something to improve things, or joins the forces of destruction.

Most people would rather do neither and therefore refuse to entertain the very idea of the end … of ‘things’ …

Unless they expect to be ‘raptured’ away to their heavenly mansions. In which case, they don’t appear to have any problem with destruction of any kind.

wear it proudly
words are powerful………teehee

Hugh, appreciate yer reply.

As you say, I don’t think we’re done, or we have a CLUE as to what’s being done behind closed doors.

So, with pressure from the public, I’m daring to hope for a better outcome, than you tend to trend to.

But hoss, I appreciate all your info that impacts where I end up coming from.

And I remain, Confused.

Dawg help us all? *G*

The species, seemingly (in fact, actually) is on the fast track to self-destruction (one way or another), yet most people cannot or will not grasp that reality
———————–
prolly be a little tiny virus,that gets the insured and UN

I appreciate your kind words, and kindred thoughts . . . thanks . . . .

what?

WELL….folks i have 4 more Ambien,from my airplane mishap…guess ill go all morpheus
as nang said
Tomorrow is another daze nite pals

‘Nite, sadly.

DW

Obama is a Republican. I didn’t want to believe it, but I’m almost completely convinced that us progressives that voted for him were duped. He has appointed repugs, he won’t investigate the most brazen criminal administration in history, he appointed the same wall st. insiders that robbed this economy, now he is yanking our chain on health care. Progressives need a third party and we needed it yesterday. We have no major media voice, but thanks for giving me a tiny voice here.

Jane, if what you say is true, then, the progressives in the House should kill the bill and the grassroots movement prepare to place on the 2010 ballot 450 individual up or down votes on SINGLE PAYER.

I can live 12 more months under the current system. If we allow this corrupt congress pass any HCR, we will be screwed for the next 20 years.

I think this situation calls for all or nothing.

General, standing by…

Rahm to Jane,
“Here’s your throat back,thanks for the loan”

So the White House won’t revise its strategy to deal with members of its own party, but is willing to revise its strategy to deal with members of the other party?

How crazy is that?

welcome! welcome sentiments as well.

and TPAZ is on it as well – let the bad bill go down, don’t drag the credibility of left netrootsia down with apologia for some kludged garbage bill that has a sham PO tacked on.

“And there’s something happening here,
That you just don’t understand.
Do you, Mister Jones.”

*G*

One of my fav’s Zimmerman’s to this day . . .

*G*

Does anybody here have any sense? All this histrionics because of Marc Ambinder? Can anybody express themselves without hysterics and four letter words?

Here’s the plan. Two bills, insurance reform in one bill, public option under Reconciliation:
http://online.wsj.com/article/…..44647.html

But notice the public option falls into a gray area, where they don’t quite know what to do with it.

I would only go for the “require most Americans to have health insurance or pay a fine” if it’s tied to the American plan–the public option.

- Tom

If it’s published in the WSJ, then it must be progressive critical thinking. Thanks, but no thanks.

PO NOW or SP in 2010. Vote on it.

Offering HCR in two bill is like owning “points” on the back end of a movie deal; there is no back end.

Here are some very short statements with a question to follow:

Millions of Americans DON’T have health care insurance.

Do you believe it’s Right that many should have insurance while others are denied coverage?

Most bankruptcies are because of health care costs which hit suddenly.

Do you believe it’s Right for the uninsured to face that risk while the insured don’t?

We Americans pay over $5Trillion more every year than most countries.

Do you believe the Conservative Americans who argue against taxes every day would be okay with a government tax of $5Trillion? If not, then why should they be okay with paying private insurers that?

In most states there are only a couple of big insurers who monopolize the health care insurance market.

If you believe in free market economics, then what do you propose we do to make the marketplace work?

People in other countries with good health care systems are laughing at us for wasting money and getting worse results.

Do you favor continuing our current system of wasting money for mediocre results?

How much money have you received for political campaigns from insurance company employees?

Be polite, but loud enough to be heard and don’t make a speech!

You’ve got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em, know when to walk away, and know when to run.

I think that any deal with a crippled “Public Option” that requires anyone to become captive customer of a health insurance company is a step backwards.

The case can be made that the way to keep Medicare solvent and to provide universal care is to have younger folks pay into it during our working years, both for senior care as well as our own current care. This unites seniors and younger folks together for sustainable health care and addresses the vulnerabilities involving the complexity of these pending bills.

There are viable consumer protections that would not have been possible several years ago but will crimp insurers’ profits, deliver more health care to people and save them money which should move forward.

But as far as the “Public Option” goes, don’t piss on my leg and tell me its raining, the political costs of pushing this through just might be higher than the benefit it delivers, as I currently understand it.

The notions of employer and individual mandates are horrendous, these aspects should be ditched and a simple funding model for sustainable medicare for all devised, which can be sold in Peoria.

I saw Lou Dobbs on CNN talking about the Swedish model, but he said that was unacceptable because they had to pay 50% of their income in tax. Guests thought the 18 months paid maternity leave was a good idea. I’d imagine that many Americans pay close to 50% in tax. Too bad Obama’s military boondoggles are sucking down dollars which should be spent at home and we’re beholden to Wall Street. If we ditched those obligation, we’d enjoy a standard of living and the kind of economic security that we see in Europe, where the strong safety net provided an automatic stimulus by propping up all sorts of demand.

We need to broach a progressive tax that might be broad enough to lightly touch the middle class, maybe 1% of income up to 5% at the rafter brackets to pay for this.

Diane, if you are asked “What does the left want in a PO? Tell them Expand Medicare to cover anyone that’s uninsured or would prefer to join. It already exists and Americans can begin enrolling next year – not 2013.

Why are we making this so difficult…the whole idea of the public option is just that…an option… at the same time it will also allow people to maintain their current health insurance by forcing these mega “blood sucking” insurance companies into a competitive rate structure (translates into affordable)…so you can pay rent and have medical coverage at the same time. Not everyone who is currently uninsured is going to choose the public option…The problem with Obama is that he doesn’t understand that mainstreet is not just blue collar, its white collar too and he has left that out of the mix….and oh yes, apparently when he moved into the Whitehouse he forgot to pack his balls.

8 major political parties in Sweden, a dozen more minor ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L….._in_Sweden

I bet no one over there has to vote for the ‘least worst’ if they don’t want to, and no one who breaks a leg has to declare bankruptcy.

it is clear as day now – the Democrats and Republicans in Washington function as a unit within a ruling corporate oligarchy.

regular folks who vote (D) year after year are voting against their interests as surely as regular folks who vote (R).

see also,

the ratchet effect.

The American political system, since at least 1968, has been operating like a ratchet, and both parties — Republicans and Democrats — play crucial, mutually reinforcing roles in its operation.

The electoral ratchet permits movement only in the rightward direction. The Republican role is fairly clear; the Republicans apply the torque that rotates the thing rightward.

The Democrats’ role is a little less obvious. The Democrats are the pawl. They don’t resist the rightward movement — they let it happen — but whenever the rightward force slackens momentarily, for whatever reason, the Democrats click into place and keep the machine from rotating back to the left.

Here’s how it works. In every election year, the Democrats come and tell us that the country has moved to the right, and so the Democratic Party has to move right too in the name of realism and electability.

yeah, that same ‘realism’ that says Single Payer is ‘off the table’.

ok then, voting for the cons who run this game should be off the table, as well.

This is a crucial moment: if there’s no public option, there is no health care reform – Obama will fail, and no one will even begin to take climate change seriously.

But if Progressives flex enough muscle, the public option will get in – Obama will gain power – and the planet will be saved. Very high stakes!

Great appearance on Rachel Maddow, Jane!

A study last year which received some publicity shows that compared to the average in other top-performing industrialized countries, in the U.S. annually over 100,000 people die who should not have died had they received proper health care.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/…..has_wo.php

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/b….._in_the_wo

-The issue with delivering health care rests on what aims are hoped to be achieved. If the goal is to provide complete coverage at the least cost, this is a problem whose solution is provided by math and has been calculated. It is a problem of how to most effeciently manage risk.
The solution if one accepts these aims entails, not surprisingly, that everyone who is capable and at risk pays into the largest pool possible, so as to maximally spread risk and maximally reduce cost. This result is rigourous and obvious and has nothing to do do with any given ideology. It rests only in satisfying the given goals.
This notion is simple to understand and should be promoted as the ideal solution. In lieu of this solution then the next best option would be the next smallest pool which is provided by the public financed option currently being proposed.
My point is that Obama is not to be trusted as an advocate for this plan given what he has done to date. All efforts should be devoted to exerting every sort of economic and electoral pressure on our representatives. We should demand that they publicly commit to voting only for legislation that includes a public option based on its demonstrable merits.

Look, what we need to focus on now is sabotaging this thing before they try to sell us half a loaf. We need to be adamant that if there is no public option, there can be NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. They’re still trying to have that. I saw on Olbermann last night that Wendell Potter, the former Cigna executive, said that in the Baucus bill they are trying to write into law that we as consumers will be forced to accept 35% of our medical expenses. Write now people are forced to take 20% and you see the level of bankruptcies we have. 15 years ago we accepted 5%. So basically, we are being told we MUST by insurance from these private vampires and that we MUST accept 35% of the costs. What the hell kind of Democrat is Obama?

Thank you Larue @ 119, PJEvans @ 125 and Solerso @ 135 for your replies to my post. It is hard not to get cynical, especially knowing how corrosive cynicism is. Having a forum like FDL helps to counter it.

@2briteturnleft, got no problem with a public option, or with single payer, medicare for all or any way to stop the chokehold that private insurance exercises over our health and economy.

But if we beef up the insurance companies with individual and/or employer mandates and then go for a very weak public option that was essentially pulled out of ass over the past few months, then the insurance companies will emerge more powerful and the half baked public option will not be able to do what it is supposed to do–force the insurance companies to lower costs.

It seems the Democrats are fleecing the insurers for every dollar they can get, and if anyone expects for them to turn at the last moment and say “ah hah!” you’re punked, insurers, then all I can ask is “on what planet do you spend most of your time?”

As Ralph Nader has oft said,

The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door. That’s the only difference.

I also like what Mike Lux said (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-lux/the-heart-of-the-matter_b_264254.html)

The tens of thousands of organizational staffers, bloggers, and grassroots activists who are fighting our hearts out on behalf of the President’s plan got into this fight because of the dysfunction of the insurance industry in terms of our lives. …

This isn’t symbolic for us, something we are doing just because the right-wing attacked the public option. We want real accountability, real competition, a real check on the insurance industry. So to all you insiders who find yourselves utterly mystified about why we care about a public plan, this is it: we want a check on insurance industry power, pure and simple. We want, as President Obama does, something to keep them honest. Tell us, if not a public option, what will accomplish that? How are you going to make that promise happen?

I can think of some ways that would help. Rate regulation, for one, as Bob Creamer and I suggested the other day. Repealing McCarran-Ferguson, the law exempting insurance companies from anti-trust laws, would help. Making it easier and faster to file class-action consumer lawsuits against insurance companies, that would also be a powerful check on insurers. …

We are in this fight because it matters. We know the stranglehold that the healthcare industry and insurance companies have on Congress and the Executive Branch. And we know the stranglehold they have on us. That is why I fight.