Yesterday Paul Krugman offered one of the best explanations I’ve seen yet for why the Public Option has become such a prominent factor for progressives in the health care debate:
If progressives had real trust in Obama’s commitment to doing the right thing, the administration would have broad leeway to do deals. But the president doesn’t command that kind of trust.
Partly it’s a matter of style — as many people have noted, he has been weirdly reluctant to make the moral case for universal care, weirdly unable to show passion on the issue, weirdly diffident even about the blatant lies from the right. Partly it’s a spillover from his other policies: by appointing an economic team that’s Rubin redux, by taking such a kindly attitude to the banks, he has squandered a lot of progressive enthusiasm.
Add in the dealmaking as part of the health care process itself, and progressives can be forgiven for having the impression that Obama (a) takes them for granted (b) is way too easily rolled by the other side.
So progressives have their backs up over one provision in health care reform that’s easy to monitor. The public option has become not so much a symbol as a signal, a test of whether Obama is really the progressive activists thought they were backing.
And the bizarre thing is that the administration doesn’t seem to get that.
As Krugman notes, the White House seems to be oblivious to the kinds of signals they have repeatedly sent to progressives about whether or not the President will follow through on many of the campaign promises he made in 2007 and 2008.
For the better part of a year now, progressive members– who would rather see a single payer system– have been selling the public option to their constituents as a necessary compromise. Progressives, in exchange for compromising on single payer (and supporting the president’s agenda), were supposed to be able to trust Leadership and the president not to compromise on the public option.
A move away from the public option is a breach of that trust….the White House needs to understand that, or they risk losing the support of the base.
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Health care is one of several areas where his actions haven’t quite lived up to his campaign promises. Perhaps if he hadn’t previously done the opposite of what he promised, he’d have more leeway on health care. As it is, he has to rebuild because I, for one, haven’t much trust or confidence. His apparent lack of desire to lead is distressing.
If there’s no public option in whatever bill passes — or doesn’t pass, I’m all for primaring Obama. I was proud as hell when we got him elected, but that’s fading fast.
Obama’s deference to the likes of Grassley really sends the wrong message to anyone who wants health care reform. And his continually sending mixed messages indicates he has no message. Obama’s cave on FISA was a real blow and then his continuation of Bush policies on a raft of important issues really shows he is not much different than what we endured the previous eight years. Obama is headed for failure.
I would add that his perverse penchant for bipartisanship even if a ’surface level’ political move has soured many on the left and I would argue Independents to his political will and prowess. I am reminded of this story about negotiating: Two people want to go eat and the first person suggest Pizza and Beer the other suggest Tire Rims and Anthrax. I am just not certain if the first person and the second person will ever arrive at an agreeable location to eat. This to me is the state of affairs with our current political discourse we want Pizza and Beer and the Repugs want Tire Rims and Anthrax.
can you please tell me when and where this deal was made?
i am sick to death of behind the scenes secret deal making. and if this one hadn’t been done behind the scenes any number of people would have been willing to describe how stupid (see for example nyceve here and here), and an actual betrayal of the grass roots, pre-compromise was.
I think the public option is a way bigger deal than the “sliver” Obama called it, and more “essential”. Why? Because, as Business Week reported, it’s seen as a threat to private companies poised to profit immensely from “reform”:
They think it’s a big deal, not just us.
This CO-OP plan is a 3 card monty scheme. We need to call Kent Conrad and tell him to get on board with the single payer option, or find new employment. I believe now that Obama never supported single payer and really never supported the Public Option. He is as corporate as they come, the democrats got more money from the insurance companies than the republicans? We need to force Obama to reveal all the names of Big Pharma he did and his “aide” Rahm set up to make a deal. There is no difference in this deal with the insurance companies, than Cheney meeting with Energy companies. Obama is a militarist. He did nothing about torture, nothing about the Patriot Act, no restoration of Habeus Corpus, has no problem continuing the horrific wars in Iraq and Afganistan. Still employs Blackwater Goons. When will liberals and progressives understand we dont have a socialist in office, we have a corporatist of the worst degree. No hope no change. No single payer, no public option….NO DEAL. STAND TALL PROGRESSIVES.
Huffington Post revealed last week that Obama met secretly with the Hospitals, and Big Pharma. They all agreed they would not change the medicare option (drug discounts). We cannot under the Obama administration buy into this 3card Monty scam of co-ops. Just like he gave away the treasury to the banksters, this is nothing more than another corporate giveaway. Rahm spoke yesterday about the co-op, which is nothing more than continuing the for profit health care system. Wallstreet stocks soared yesterday when the “public option” was taken off the table. These coops will cost $12 million to start up. A waste of our health care dollars. How many co ops will be created at $12 million a pop? This is a sham and scam we cannot fall for this nonsense. Better we have no Plan, and force them to put single payer back on the table. Its the only remedy. Throw out of office every blue dog and every democrat who are really closeted republicans.
ITA
Hi Selise: I think you make a good point, and to answer the question, I think it really depends on the specific member. I’m not sure there was ever any behind the scenes deal (only the members themselves know for sure), but in looking at the actions and words of some of the more progressive members it’s clear they were willing to accept the public option as a first pass at reform this year.
The compromise I was explaining in this post was much more of a personal one on the part of the members, which is why I think the White House has been surprised that there are now so many of them willing to vote against a bill with no public option.
Many of these members reluctantly backed a public option– at the risk of angering their constituents who support single payer– as a sign of good faith. The anger the White House is now dealing with is largely a result of having taken such good faith effort for granted.
Ian Welsh explains just what a regressive tax a mandate will be, with a weak “public option” or without any public plan. Both ways, people are, well, screwed.
Good comment from Formerly T-Bear at the Ian linked post:
Formerly T-Bear permalink
There’s more at the link.
Oh for Christ sake, Obama met openly w/health care companies to sound out who would or would not cooperate in heath care reform. Results were publicly announced. Just 7 months into his admin. y’all are making let’s primary him comments – the bill is not even written. Have you forgotten how the government actually functions? It is not President dictates, Congress follows. It’s Congress and Exec are co-equal. Keep pressing Congress, the Pres is on your side already. And you are winning.
The Republicans must be “ROTFLTAsO” and this is “Change”we were suppose to believe in,ey?
Marisa and selise,
I don’t know whether there was an explicit compromise by the Administration w/ progressives groups or members or not. But certainly, the Administration and its close allies held out the PO as the only realistic, feasible alternative that progressives could hope to get through the Congress.
That may or mat not have been true, but it’s pretty clear to me, at least, that even if it is true, it was and is terrible strategy for progressives to advocate for the PO rather than Medicare for All, before the point when a compromise with the opposition is necessary. And at that point, if it is necessary to compromise the terms of that compromise should be only on a plan that was likely to evolve to “Medicare for All.”
So now that there seems little doubt that the President is more interested in providing a competitive market for health insurance as his primary goal rather than a health insurance system that will evolve into “Medicare for All,” I think it’s plain that his primary goal in HCR and our primary goal in it are very different.
So I suggest that we quickly retreat to HR 676 and do all we can to pass that bill and not compromise on this position until we get something worthwhile from the President and others whose goals are different than our own. Let’s not join in on the current effort to support the PO or explain or sell it to people. If we do that, the most we can buy ourselves for our time and money is the travesty of a public option we see in HR 3200.
If Obama wants to sell a public option, let him use his resources to sell the idea, then if he wants a compromise with us on the PO he can have one provided it’s a good PO like Jacob Hacker’s original proposal.
If he doesn’t want a compromise, torpedo this bill, and try to pass a minimalist bill that ends the worst insurance abuses without giving the insurance companies anything. No concessions, no larger markets, nothing but extra expenses.
Then next year, when rates are 10% higher, come back and try to get “Medicare for All” again. If Congress won’t consider it because it’s an election year, go into the streets.
PO in the context of reform is likely to be a non-profit public paid (on sliding scale) plan that is roughly medicare +5% or so and offered on the health exchange alongside other (private, individual) plans. This is a nose under the tent issue for the insurers, which is good for everyone else. In gradual phases small biz will be allowed onto the exchange as well, after the 47M uninsured citizens are sorted out. It will be a great day when businesses of any size are demanding access to the exchange b/c their smaller competitors can beat them on cost since their health insurance plans are so much cheaper. Eyes on the prize.
Hi whyknot, I don’t see any of this occurring. Are there any bills coming out of committees in Congress that suggest the scenario you’ve just laid out. And what makes you think that the camel whose nose gets into the tent must of necessity end up inside?
Just any reform bill won’t do here. We need one that we can be pretty sure won’t hurt the possibility of further reform. There’s no bill “on the table” in Congress that does this right now.
hi letsget – the health insurance exchange plan is the absolute core of the plan obama has proposed, and is fully backed by OFA. The House plans all include the exchange, which is why the Senate is trying to rip it apart, IMO, into an exchange offering only private insurance, or if they have to an exchange including some half-ass coop idea, or an exchange that has a public option based on medicare reimbursements, but probably as much as 5 to 10% increased payments and mandated. Obviously private insurance would have to cut profitability and improve service to be able to compete with the cost of the basic public plan. that’s the whole idea, getting drowned out by all the other noise. The original plan was for biz with $250K in net income to be allowed on the exchange with the 47M uninsured. That was an arbitrary # that would leave out a lot of very small businesses that have been near killed by health insurance costs, so eventually the plan in the House, at the urging of the Obama admin, boosted the net income cap for biz participation to $500K. This massively widens the opening participants and (I believe) has triggered some of the hysteria and desperation of the insurance lobbies. It’s a good plan that won’t hurt further reform. It’s on the table, just not in the Senate yet.
Man oh man, watching The Ed Show, and NBC has some new polling.
45% of Americans believe there will be death panels.
FOURTY-FIVE PERCENT BELIEVE THAT SHIT!
It’s no wonder this country just can’t enact real change. The fucking population is just damned stupid.
45% believe in the death panels. Unbelievable.
Now go tell that to the Republicans.
Exactly. I’ve been spending August campaigning for the public option, peddling OFA’s crappy vague literature, hoping we wouldn’t get screwed. The public option was already a compromise. Then we watched it be watered down. Now it seems like Obama is flirting with dumping it. I didn’t expect much out of Obama and was never down with the whole post-partisan, new era of politics pie in the sky, but if we don’t get even a lame public option, I like many progressives will just be done with Obama.
3 words. Medicare for all.
whyknot, I’m sorry where’s Obama’s HCR plan written down. I’ve never seen it? I don’t know what it says. As far as OFA backing it, well of course it would, OFA is Obama’s public arm. His people own it. The concrete bills so far are the ones that have come out of committee. HR 3200 has a PO travesty that will allow only 10 million enrollment originally. CBO says it won’t save much money at all. It would give 1 – 1.5 trillion to the industry through the subsidies and mandates without imposing cost controls on them. Moreover, the House and Senate bills don’t make the PO operative until 2013. By that time, more than 60,000 additional people will die for lack of insurance. In addition, 3 million more Americans will go into bankruptcy due to health care bills.
In short, I think the House Bill is a disaster, and the Senate bill is even worse, because neither will control costs. If a variant of these bills pass, further health care reform will be frozen at least until after 2013, since the PO won’t happen until then. That alone hurts us and reform. Furthermore, a bill like these will be viewed as a failure and will threaten the progressive movement and the Democratic Party because when it fails we and the whole idea of Government intervention will be blamed.
Meanwhile, Obama is preparing to compromise further with the Blue Dogs and is sending up trial balloons to see how strongly the progressives will object to getting rid of the PO. So, I just don’t see where you’re coming from in your remarks.
Obama should admit his strategy for HCR was in error and he should throw all his support and his considerable sales ability behind Medicare for All in the form of HR 676. I’ve argued for this at length in many previous posts here.
My Progressive back got up the day Obama announced Rahm as his Chief of Staff.
All you need to know to understand that is this from Dkos Research 2000 poll crosstabs on this question:
That means that 74% of Republicans are open to the idea and slightly less than half see the BS for what it is.
Btw, the totals in this poll are:
And it would be just the first breaking of an industry by the people. The Banks are also loved in the same manner.
I agree with the odd lack of passion. I realize the President campaigned as No Drama Obama, and seemed calm and assured on the stump. That doesn’t bar him from sticking it to the uncooperative jerks on the repub team. Letting Grassley stay anywhere near this reminds me in a sickening way of Dukakis’ oddly remote answer on the nonsensical rape your wife question.
“the White House needs to understand that, or they risk losing the support of the base.”
Damn right! We will beat them bloody with our blogs! Obama is hiding under the big desk right now, I’ll bet. And just think of all the concerned letters we can send. And we can REALLY beat down hard on anyone who says it isn’t any use because one of these corporate whores is just as bad as the other. Round and round we go, while the bad guys get richer and richer. Hey, but we’ll elect GOOD Democrats!
Well, go for it. Maybe you’re right! :-)
Medicare’s cost are out of control. The reform will have to go much, much further than Medicare for all to become effective.
Fee-for-service Will have to die, as will for profit hospitals, doctors emoluments will have to drop, as will medical school fees, which will being a death spiral on big educations continually increasing costs.
Single payer attacks the dogma, the religion, of the right – Profit Uber Alles.
We Progressives made Lieberman a superfluous flop. We can do the same to other Blue Dogs as well. Today was the first day I have seen the “office holding” Progressives basically say that the Public Option is health care reform. To them it is what defines reform and without it they have no real reason to vote for a bill that does not seriously enact it.
Bush should have sent Gibbs out ASAP to the podium after Grassley lied about “death panels” to state that the W.House would have NO discussions/negotiations with anyone who perpretrated that lie. Where the heck is his backbone????I voted for change, and instead I’m seeing the FISA mess, rendition, lack of transparency as to torture and the bailouts, etc. etc.
Democrats need to refrain from stampeding or attacking one another. That’s exactly the reaction the opposition to reform is attempting to provoke.
If we stay focused and cool, meaningful reform is going to happen.
I am not sure we are winning. Instead of turning against Pres Obama, maybe we should step up and speak up like the right wingers are. If I was the President I might feel like I am on a sinking ship and am reaching for whatever life saving device I can find.
Consider the source and it was prolly very close to a push poll.
speaking independently .. if they pass an individual mandate with no public option available .. they’ll force me back into the VA system .. where whatever care i receive.. [imo] will come at the expense of those disabled ..and maimed from the AF/Pak- iraq meat grinder .. i think thats unacceptable .. i’d rather continue self-pay .. no public option means no support for whatever bill doesn’t contain it [from me and mine] ..
and had i only known i was voting for BushIII .. i’d have just stayed home ..instead of getting my wife and myself and our kin and all our vehicles involved in the get-out-the-vote effort .. [not to mention hours and hours of persuading a slightly-right-of-center BIL/SIL to “vote obama” .. ]
i am ..up to now .. disappointed: FISA .. state secrets .. rendition .. indefinite detention .. military commissions .. and now going wishy-washy on the public option too [?]…
“it sucks” doesn’t quite convey the depth of my underwhelment thus far …
meh .. not to say i’d ever vote for a damn republican again ..
just saying …
So you prefer we all sit around like good little Ds and just accept whatever piece o’crap bill the Blue Dogs and ConservaDems decide their buyers can live with?
Didn’t the Obama admin create the term ‘public option’ to settle as a downgraded plan not like single payer? I think Obama said most would agree on public option as opposed to universal care? Part of his let’s get some repukes involved.
NBC Nightly had a pretty good piece on the topic. One note is how badly Congress is being viewed…does any one like the folks in Congress? Not many.
And what that will do is permit physicians to have small practices once again, increasing the competition and distributing the locations of service. Too many physicians in large medical systems are indentured by medical school loan repayment plans–golden handcuffs. And the ones most affected are primary care physicians.
Yeah, micro-managed fee-for-service, a system that only a cost accounting firm could love is going to have to go in order to reduce costs. Performing a test is not performing a service; it is a step in performing a service. The service is assisting healing. Or preventing loss of health. What exactly replaces fee-for-service is not well understood yet, but I understand from the Dean thread that Massachusetts is trying to figure it out.
This is both so funny and so TRUE!!
Thank you.
And yet incumbents are re-elected more than 90% of the time.
“Your congresscritter sucks; mine, however, deserves re-election.”
Go figure.
obama is still in community organizer mode: let’s all get together on what we need to do and move forward. Unfortunately, the loudest group won’t get together with anyone else except on their terms. obama is saying that he will accept that and move everyone else to what the loudest want. That fits with his apparent further objective of moving the government more snugly into the hands of the corporations. Those of you still saying that obama wants us to give him more help and we need to trust him are looking past FISA, the bankruptcy bill, rahm, geithner, summers, etc. I’m sorry, but I can’t do that. I didn’t expect a real progressive, I just expected someone a little more adherent to the Constitution (considering his faculty position) than the previous WH squatter. I was much more wrong than I ever dreamed I could be.
It was in the campaign. There are a number of possible sources, including Baucus and Daschle, who were tied into the healthcare industry lobbyists. Boehner today is saying that Axelrod got a quid-pro-quo deal with his advertising firm from PhRMA as a price of going easy on pharma profits. I don’t know how true that is but it sure seems that Bully Boehner is jealous of the attention.
Earlier in this same article, Krugman wrote:
But, IIUC, Switzerland bans for-profit insurers from their basic health-insurance market; per Russell Mokhiber: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/03-7
Most people seem to feel that they actually “know” their rep – and sometimes they do. They have a need to convince themselves that someone they know wouldn’t possibly work against their interest. none so blind as those who will not see.
Every time I see Kent Conrad on the teevee pushing his co-op plan he says that the reality is that there has never been 60 votes for the public option. No one ever asks, though, how he knows and which Dems will not vote for it. Further, no one ever points out that 60 votes are only required to beat back a filibuster. Only 51 votes are needed to pass the bill. So, which Dems will support a filibuster? Why doesn’t Kent identify them? Why doesn’t anyone evr ask Kent these questions?
Naming names is very uncollegial and would upset countless Villager cocktail weenie parties. You don’t expect Andrea Mitchell to be able to cut in line at the buffet after asking Senators to name names when they make outlandish claims, do you?
Does he offer any evidence. Visibly there have been a quid-pro-quo deals with the AMA and PhRMA. Somehow the administration and AHIP have not yet come to terms, but a deal still seems to be in the offing.
and, those who care about the future viability of their beloved Democratic Party should do their utmost to avoid the passage of a flawed, corrupted individual mandate where everyone is compelled to purchase crap policies from the highly profitable insurance cartel.
with or without the diminutive figleaf of a public option, a mandate would rile folks up real bad, and they would remember which party foisted it on them for generations.
I don’t expect Andrea Mitchell to do so, but maybe a constituent or Rick Sanchez or someone who isn’t quite one of the cool kids.
You are like Paul Revere. Keep it up.
Are people who supported the public option non-movement, rather than the Medicare for All movement tens of thousands of nurses and doctors support and advocate for so tied in to some sort of win at this point, that they can not concede the public option movement has not worked? I just don’t understand the objective here. Health care stocks are up, all sorts of bad deals for the public have been made, when do people say, ok, the public option that comes out of this bill isn’t going to be viable, maybe we go back to the negotiating table with bigger demands?
Well, they sort of have. “Insurance reform” was penned by AHIP. The trade is the bigger captive market for end of cherry picking and discriminatory practices. The point of contention is any public program what so ever. They have already won a number of concessions, including how any public plan what so ever is priced, it’s size, the subsidies(which were intended only for the public plan), etc..
Does anyone remeber the converstion between biden and obama, that biden blurted in reference, to make a point at a fundraiser
” it wont always seem like im doing the right thing”?
was the alledged comment..but it dosent EVER seem like he’s doing the right thing. now is not the time for patience. now is the time for doing things. i dont care one whit about Obamas place in history or his ( as yet undemostrated) ability to charm the opposition. This guy is either as tuned out as bush, or he REALLY does want to bring change that wall st. can believe in
Thanks – it is like trying to negotiate with an insane person – sometimes you just can’t get there.
Obama is a Reagan Democrat. He is Progressive in name only. He was attractive mainly because Cheney & Bush were so abhorrent. There is no mystery about this. If Liberals want something done right, they are going to have to do it without Obama leading, only following.
No, but Bloomberg, quoted in the Huffington Post, has this:
This POV/observation seems to be very close to middle of what seems to be taking place–
The for profit healthcare coverage providers do not want to give up the gravy train–will not give it up and are buying off this reform and will put the fix in one way (put lots of money in to fix the outcome for nothing to happen or failed outcome) or the other way ( really put lots and lots of money in to put the fix in).
Medicare For All? Off the table. Any form or combination of Single Payer Plan? Off the table. A “robust public plan”? Barely on the table and looking like a goner more and more? Oh yeah. This so called Conrad “co-op” plan seems to be slowly coming into view as some kind of BCBS horse on which the current regime of for profits get to ride — load up on more subsidy derived income — control the play by play setups — and then pull off it’s failure by underfunding, market share starvation or failure by simple neglect and shut out.
The premise then is to put up a weak proposal whatever it might be–then make it subject to current for profit protocols–for profit insurers then set the rules and game the outcomes. The Republicans grab on any bad news and amplify it over and over. What do the Republicans really want government to do? Nothing. Or some kind of Katrina outcome again. But for sure the Republicans are all about no or built in fail on which to demolish other government programs they want gone.
When the crash and burn happens guess what? What will get blamed? Who will get blamed? Where do the for profit insurers come out at the end then?
The Republicans want nothing to happen or so little that the result is the same. The middle of road Democrats are playing into the Republicans game plan but after the past decades record of these political cave-ins is that a surprise?
The corporatists and healthcare capitalists are not giving anything up or away unless forced to on the starkest of terms.
This Obama WH? So far it has done too little about a host of Bush/Cheney WH shortfalls,illegal conduct or just rotten policy choices. That is on the record as of today. This Obama WH is protecting the torturers. That is fact. Incredible this is too after what candidate Obama claimed he would do.
This so called “reform” of American healthcare indeed looks like a contrived kabuki play that is intended to create lots of misdirection and produce a plan that will fall short — surely fail — and serve to derail any future Single Payer or Medicare For All possibilities.
I agree. We have to go much further then Medicare for All; but 1) Medicare costs are rising much more slowly than private industry costs, 2) Medicare for All will immediately lower present total costs by an average of the difference between Medicare overhead (about 2.5%) and insurance company overhead (30%), which alone should cut health care costs from 17% of GDP to 12% of GDP; and 3) Medicare for All can be implemented inside of a year. Once it’s implemented we can move to introduce lean health care processes and technology to introduce real quality into the health care system.
I just don’t think Obama thinks he needs us. I would bet that everyone up there in the “administration” was shocked at the blow back when Sebelius opened her mouth.
Take a look at the Kucinich email I just got:
http://kucinich.us/index.php
I agree. Let’s stay focused and cool — on Medicare for All and forget about the PO compromise that neither Obama, nor the Blue Dogs, not the Republicans want.
That’s right. So, thus far he’s delivered no Repubs and very few Blue Dogs, so why should we stick to the PO. Let’s go with what we like: Medicare for All.
I agree. No mandate without Medicare for All.
I think the Obama administration is best likened to a turtle. They refuse to stick their necks out, or their heads out, instead constantly retreating into their shell and ignoring the outside world as though it weren’t there. That’s the source of Obama’s preternatural coolness; a peaceful, total obliviousness to everything.
Ignorance is bliss. Obama can’t be annoyed by the anger of the left or the bullshit of the right- he’s in his shell, and he’s okay.
masslib, Don’t really know. I guess it’s the old reflexive thing. Once you try to create a reality, even when you don’t succeed, you try to convince yourself that some part of what you thought is reality. In the beginning they took Medicare for All off the table because they thought it wasn’t feasible while PO was. Now they find that the PO isn’t feasible, but they can’t bring themselves to admit that maybe they were wrong about Medicare for All too.
Obama makes Neville Chamberlain look like a paragon of strength. He’s more concerned about keeping Republicans “on board” than in doing what is right and necessary. A politician who it would seem lacks a grand vision and principles.
That odd conundrum….
When calling the WH yesterday to voice my opposition to dropping the “public option” I asked the screener what kind of reaction the WH was receiving. She replied, “where instructed not to comment.” So much for transparency.
Excellent point. He really doesn’t know how to use power. With a majority in both the House and Senate we just wants to play nice with Blue Dogs and Republicans. This isn’t 3 dimensional chess it’s naivete or just another example of being co-opted by the ruling elite. An FDR he isn’t.
Never underestimate the ignorance of the American public. The corporate media does it’s job very well. Keep the American people in a perpetual state of infantilism.
Yes, that’s 7 solid months of evidence that he’s just another lying politician.
He said he wouldn’t do deals with lobbyists. He said he was against torture, wiretapping, etc. He said he was for the rule of law. All proven to be bullshit.
How much evidence do you need?
The company I work at (about 3,000 employees) announced today that if there was a public option on health insurance, IF it is beneficial to the company (I guess that means if it’s cheaper for them) the Insurance they Provide would be discontinued. Now if that happens and I am FORCED into a public option, I will be pissed! I am a veteran and already use some VA Health Beenfits (great great care) but can only get in there once, maybe twice a year to see a doctor.
This stuff is all getting pretty scary!
Jane,
Thank you for existing. I suspected there must be more people who think the way I do, but all I found on the internet were truly scary crazy people. I love this country, but I was raised in Germany, although I have been a U.S. citizen for a long time, and have lived here for 42 years. Perhaps it has something to do with having been raised in Germany, but I am totally unable to understand the hysteria about “socialized medicine”, “death panels”, “birthers”, “deathers”, comparisons to Hitler, to Marxists, people carrying guns to debates on health care reform. I feel I must have fallen through some crack into an alternate universe. How can people be so gullible. You can tell them anything and they believe it. Help! Is there some reason hysterical old people are railing against “socialized medicine”, yet are just as frantically demanding that nobody touch their Medicare. Are they truly unable to comprehend that by their definition Medicare is socialized medicine? I recommend that all the true believers in the evil of any type of socialism immmediately and voluntarily return their social security payments to the government, as well as declining to participate in Medicare. As I see it you must have the courage of your convictions, and not participate in the evils of socialism that you fear so greatly. As for the “death panels”, as a nurse I have seen too much to have any wish to be indefinitely connected to machines that keep me alive, when I no longer have any brain activity or quality of life. My wish would be to die peacefully and free of pain. By the way can we get attention only if we bus people in and march on Washington, D.C. That seems to be how the “conservatives” manage to convey the impression that they are in the majority. As for me I emailed the president, repeatedly, as well as my congressman, but have not received a reply so far.
I like that one: “Obama makes Neville Chamberlain look like a paragon of strength.”
He ain’t no Harry Truman, Jack Kennedy, or LBJ either.
Gabriele, I agree withe substance of what you say. But I’m on something of a mission to introduce greater accuracy in the terminology we use for things. Medicare is not socialized medicine, it’s socialized insurance. The Government does the funding, but all the care is done by non-governmental providers, either profit or non-profit institutions as the case may be. VA’s Tricare, on the other hand, and the UK’s National Health Service are socialized medicine.
I’ve been visiting the Lake since about Day 1, and have been a fairly obsessive lefty-blog reader since MediaWhoresOnline ruled the world, and I just want to say how the comments on this post re-assure me of where home is.
There is so much here I agree with, I don’t where to start, so I’ll just say thanks to the community at large…
as someone who has experience w/ Tricare, GREAT when i was active duty AirForce, since I got out, the VA is a nightmare
this health care debate is just 1 piece in what people see as the gov’t starting to control the lives of people…just wait til this is over and the debate on Card Check, Fairness Doctrine, etc get started…things will get even more heated
I live in part of the US where regular citizens and gov’t leaders are already pushing making US cars/trucks the only vechicles you are allowed to buy
As elated as I was on Election day 2008 – I am beginning to feel equally depressed that what I thought were promises of change were more rhetoric. We have more “so-called” Democrats holding elected offices in Washington than ever before and still we are acting as if – as J William Fulbright once said, “With Banners Flying, we’re marching backwards.”.
I caught Jane on Rachel Maddow’s Show this evening – August 18th – up to that moment in time I had no clue who this Ms. Jane was. Listening to her however, motivated me to write down her web site so I could find out a little more. Thank you Jane for telling it like it is. If the President and Rahm want the continued support of those of us who carried them into the White House – they must follow through on their campaign promises.
I am beginning to think – it is Professor Obama who is convinced in his own gift of oratory in convincing “people” that he is the Way. The problem however is that generally Professors speak to people who have on average a 12th grade Reading and Comprehension level – whereas the general population of US Voters are functioning at a 5th grade level. Hence, his oratory is more confusing than helpful. For the most part the US population – like most countries on the planet are comprised of a populace that is in need of being lead. They need a Leader. Is President Obama up to the challenge of being a Leader – or is he just wanting to enlarge his Law Classes? We NEED you to LEAD – NOW! We will not dislike or disown you if you make a few Actual Decisions without having to confer with everyone.
Welcome. Stay a while.
Hi irish2645, Thanks for your personal experience. I don’t have any myself, but people I’ve spoken to have had good experiences with Tricare and have become active in supporting single-payer and public option proposals as a result.
wow, you have health insurance, VA benefits and Job and you “getting scared”? what a puss
And the bizarre thing is that the administration doesn’t seem to get that.
you know what is ironic to me? the fact that, despite the rhetoric, this administration was not prepared for the public to shift to the left. they had planned to do things the old way, under the assumption that the same dynamics would be in play.
Must be about time for Emanuel to leave, so that he can prepare his campaign to return to the house and run aginst Pelosi.
That would be good for the present, but bodes ill for the future, Harry and Nancy need to be gone, but not replaced by worse.
That sounds lik a good plan to me!
That sounds like a good plan to me!
I’m also sick of this bipartisan bull. If repugs had the majority whatever bill they WANTED to pass would be passed. President when it comes to the repugs ur damned if u do damned if u don’t.Get a backbone and just DO! The majority wants reform I’m sick of watching while the pres try to appease people who didn’t vote for him anyway. Pres u r to do the business of the people…The people who put in in office…now how do I get this message to his desk!
The first thing Obama needs to do to regain my trust is to see to it that Reid removes Baucus from his chairmanship position. Make an example of the bastard insurance/pharma parasite. Yesterday.
yea u should try it
thank you marisa.