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	<title>Comments on: Anthony Weiner:  No Public Plan Will Cost &#8220;100 Votes&#8221; In the House</title>
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	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: ChrisB</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38267</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38267</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Anthony Weiner is very good. Just the right sort of person to lead the liberal wing. They have had no leader at the moment. That’s why the health care issue got into this mess! If the liberals don’t elect a leader each major issue will have its own mess.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony Weiner is very good. Just the right sort of person to lead the liberal wing. They have had no leader at the moment. That’s why the health care issue got into this mess! If the liberals don’t elect a leader each major issue will have its own mess.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38266</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38266</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You criticize the reform in an off-hand way as if nobody is going to ask you for some specific(s) about it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What about the reform bills do you dislike enough to call a dog?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve heard opponents of reform for a few weeks now (at least) and they have yet to come up with even one real criticism which held up under close scrutiny. And, even one (the so-called “death panel”) was fine, but the Dems took it out anyway. Irony is it was created by a Republican. Same with the home nursing aid for new parents (came from Republican Senator Kit Bond [R-MO]).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, either put up some valid arguments or shut up.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You criticize the reform in an off-hand way as if nobody is going to ask you for some specific(s) about it.</p>
<p>What about the reform bills do you dislike enough to call a dog?</p>
<p>I’ve heard opponents of reform for a few weeks now (at least) and they have yet to come up with even one real criticism which held up under close scrutiny. And, even one (the so-called “death panel”) was fine, but the Dems took it out anyway. Irony is it was created by a Republican. Same with the home nursing aid for new parents (came from Republican Senator Kit Bond [R-MO]).</p>
<p>So, either put up some valid arguments or shut up.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38265</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38265</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In da House Grandma gets whatever Grandma wants! Heh.&lt;br /&gt;
Eh, you want we should twist some arms? Alright then…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In da House Grandma gets whatever Grandma wants! Heh.<br />
Eh, you want we should twist some arms? Alright then…</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38263</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38263</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree, if only because if that were our slogan we’d be much more likely to get to a meaningful public option like Jacob Hacker’s original proposal. If we fail to get that kind of public option, I think we’d be much better off with a minimalist bill that declared it illegal for insurance companies to 1) deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, 2) charge people with pre-existing conditions more than others are charged, 3) rescind anyone’s policy because they failed to report a pre-existing condition, or because they got sick while insured, or 4) raise anyone’s premiums because they’ve gotten sick while insured. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we passed just that right now and made it effective immediately, we’d stop a lot of the bleeding going on due to the private insurance system; and next year (in an election year) we could come back and push for Medicare for All, which we’d either get, or alternatively be able to negotiate a Jacob Hacker type of PO system in return for mandating health insurance coverage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Notice this sequence of doing things would be much harder for “Blue Dogs” to oppose. That is, how could any Democrat object to the above 4 requirements without explicitly aligning themselves with the insurance companies? Enacting these four requirements wouldn’t even cost very much; other than enforcement. CBO would score it very well. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Further, if such a bill passed, it would immediately impose heavy costs on the insurance companies and begin to wipe out their profits; putting them in a much more favorable frame of mind for negotiating either a worthwhile public plan in 2010, or even Medicare for All.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, if only because if that were our slogan we’d be much more likely to get to a meaningful public option like Jacob Hacker’s original proposal. If we fail to get that kind of public option, I think we’d be much better off with a minimalist bill that declared it illegal for insurance companies to 1) deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, 2) charge people with pre-existing conditions more than others are charged, 3) rescind anyone’s policy because they failed to report a pre-existing condition, or because they got sick while insured, or 4) raise anyone’s premiums because they’ve gotten sick while insured. </p>
<p>If we passed just that right now and made it effective immediately, we’d stop a lot of the bleeding going on due to the private insurance system; and next year (in an election year) we could come back and push for Medicare for All, which we’d either get, or alternatively be able to negotiate a Jacob Hacker type of PO system in return for mandating health insurance coverage.</p>
<p>Notice this sequence of doing things would be much harder for “Blue Dogs” to oppose. That is, how could any Democrat object to the above 4 requirements without explicitly aligning themselves with the insurance companies? Enacting these four requirements wouldn’t even cost very much; other than enforcement. CBO would score it very well. </p>
<p>Further, if such a bill passed, it would immediately impose heavy costs on the insurance companies and begin to wipe out their profits; putting them in a much more favorable frame of mind for negotiating either a worthwhile public plan in 2010, or even Medicare for All.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38248</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38248</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No we won’t. If we ask for a public option the most we will get is a PO bill that’s so weak it won’t work. If we really want a good PO bill, we have to insist on Medicare for All and get enough people behind it to scare the crap out of them!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No we won’t. If we ask for a public option the most we will get is a PO bill that’s so weak it won’t work. If we really want a good PO bill, we have to insist on Medicare for All and get enough people behind it to scare the crap out of them!</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38247</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38247</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think that’s true, and I also think that even if we mobilize a lot of progressive opinion in back of a public option and the President thinks he has to give the progressives something, he will at most give them the kind of sliver that is in HR 3200, with an operational date in 2013. That will satisfy many of the Congresspeople, and also HCAN, and a few of the other “progressive” interest groups in back of health care reform. But that kind of public option won’t work to contain costs, and in the end will earn defeat at the polls for the Democrats and an example the Republicans would very much like to have of another Government program that is not working.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that’s true, and I also think that even if we mobilize a lot of progressive opinion in back of a public option and the President thinks he has to give the progressives something, he will at most give them the kind of sliver that is in HR 3200, with an operational date in 2013. That will satisfy many of the Congresspeople, and also HCAN, and a few of the other “progressive” interest groups in back of health care reform. But that kind of public option won’t work to contain costs, and in the end will earn defeat at the polls for the Democrats and an example the Republicans would very much like to have of another Government program that is not working.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38243</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38243</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think a lot of that depends on Obama, on Harry Reid, and on Nancy Pelosi. I say this because Reid and Pelosi will select the conferees from their Houses of Congress. If Obama thinks that the reform can’t win a final vote in the House if the Conference bill has no public option, then he will pressure Reid and Pelosi to select the right people for the conference committee. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That means no Blue Dogs, no Max Baucus, no Kent Conrad, but people like Chris Dodd (close to Teddy), Chuck Schumer, Jay Rockefeller, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold and so on. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the House, Pelosi needs to appoint people like John Conyers, Anthony Weiner, Chellie Pingree, Dennis Kucinich, Donna Edwards, Jackie Speier, Raul Grijalva, Robert Wexler, and Yvette Clark, and avoid people like Mike Ross, Jim Cooper, Heath Shuler, Gabrielle Giffords, and Jane Harman.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whether the White House pressures Reid and Pelosi to do this will depend on whether the progressives in the House hold firm on a public option. Today, Anthony Weiner says that Obama could lose 100 votes in the House if there’s no public option. If he’s right and the town meetings from now until Congress comes back begin to reflect progressive sentiment about Medicare for All, the White House might pressure in this way. If the right wing continues to dominate the public stage for the next three weeks, I think Obama will sit back and pass a compromise bill that’s a total giveaway to the insurance industry.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot of that depends on Obama, on Harry Reid, and on Nancy Pelosi. I say this because Reid and Pelosi will select the conferees from their Houses of Congress. If Obama thinks that the reform can’t win a final vote in the House if the Conference bill has no public option, then he will pressure Reid and Pelosi to select the right people for the conference committee. </p>
<p>That means no Blue Dogs, no Max Baucus, no Kent Conrad, but people like Chris Dodd (close to Teddy), Chuck Schumer, Jay Rockefeller, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold and so on. </p>
<p>In the House, Pelosi needs to appoint people like John Conyers, Anthony Weiner, Chellie Pingree, Dennis Kucinich, Donna Edwards, Jackie Speier, Raul Grijalva, Robert Wexler, and Yvette Clark, and avoid people like Mike Ross, Jim Cooper, Heath Shuler, Gabrielle Giffords, and Jane Harman.</p>
<p>Whether the White House pressures Reid and Pelosi to do this will depend on whether the progressives in the House hold firm on a public option. Today, Anthony Weiner says that Obama could lose 100 votes in the House if there’s no public option. If he’s right and the town meetings from now until Congress comes back begin to reflect progressive sentiment about Medicare for All, the White House might pressure in this way. If the right wing continues to dominate the public stage for the next three weeks, I think Obama will sit back and pass a compromise bill that’s a total giveaway to the insurance industry.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38230</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38230</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We worked so hard to see if we could do it and elect someone we wanted. We’ve now proved that we can, so let’s get on with it and show this President that he gets nothing without us, and let’s also get to organizing a third party so that we have somewhere to go in 2012, if this character keeps up his triangulation on the center-right.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We worked so hard to see if we could do it and elect someone we wanted. We’ve now proved that we can, so let’s get on with it and show this President that he gets nothing without us, and let’s also get to organizing a third party so that we have somewhere to go in 2012, if this character keeps up his triangulation on the center-right.</p>
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		<title>By: tmginnova</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38176</link>
		<dc:creator>tmginnova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38176</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, anyone paying attention should know that Obama has a long list of progressive achievements in just 6 months, certainly not everything we want and some disappointments for sure, but, who’s done more in the past 4 decades?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just a few of the initial accomplishments:&lt;br /&gt;
– The largest infusion of cash for green energy ever;&lt;br /&gt;
– support for fighting climate change through comprehensive legislation now (as well as rejoining the world community on this one);&lt;br /&gt;
– progressive appointments at EPA and Interior, and undoing a series of disastrous Bush env. policies;&lt;br /&gt;
– removing restrictions on birth control and family planning in US international policy;&lt;br /&gt;
– removing limits on womens’ ability to sue for workplace discrimination;&lt;br /&gt;
– clearly banning torture and promising to close Guantanamo;&lt;br /&gt;
– approaching the world as a partner rather than a threat;&lt;br /&gt;
– implementing his commitment to removing US combat troops from Iraq;&lt;br /&gt;
– signing a big expansion of childrens’ health care;&lt;br /&gt;
– providing help to folks with troubled mortgages;&lt;br /&gt;
– passing a large stimulus to create jobs (through progressive actions to help schools, state employees, green energy (again), mass transit, etc). Etc, etc, etc&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regarding expanded access to health care, Obama is pursuing strong limits on what insurance companies can do and a series of steps to reduce costs and subsidize families that need help.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, anyone paying attention should know that Obama has a long list of progressive achievements in just 6 months, certainly not everything we want and some disappointments for sure, but, who’s done more in the past 4 decades?</p>
<p>Just a few of the initial accomplishments:<br />
– The largest infusion of cash for green energy ever;<br />
– support for fighting climate change through comprehensive legislation now (as well as rejoining the world community on this one);<br />
– progressive appointments at EPA and Interior, and undoing a series of disastrous Bush env. policies;<br />
– removing restrictions on birth control and family planning in US international policy;<br />
– removing limits on womens’ ability to sue for workplace discrimination;<br />
– clearly banning torture and promising to close Guantanamo;<br />
– approaching the world as a partner rather than a threat;<br />
– implementing his commitment to removing US combat troops from Iraq;<br />
– signing a big expansion of childrens’ health care;<br />
– providing help to folks with troubled mortgages;<br />
– passing a large stimulus to create jobs (through progressive actions to help schools, state employees, green energy (again), mass transit, etc). Etc, etc, etc</p>
<p>Regarding expanded access to health care, Obama is pursuing strong limits on what insurance companies can do and a series of steps to reduce costs and subsidize families that need help.</p>
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		<title>By: Justinajustice</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38150</link>
		<dc:creator>Justinajustice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/anthony-weiner-no-public-plan-will-cost-100-votes-in-the-house/#comment-38150</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You write:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;With all the disappointments, Obama has already enacted more progressive changes than any Pres. in 40 years, and has gotten as close to universal coverage as we’ve ever been.With&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Would you please list the “more progressive changes” you are referring to, I seemed to have missed them, unless you are referring to the billions of dollars he has handed big corporations to pay off their credit default swaps gambling debts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;AS for getting us “close to universal coverage”, what I see emerging is a universal mandate requiring all Americans, whether they can afford it or not, to give the private insurers even more of their money. Unless there is a robust public option, our health insurance costs will continue to sky rocket, but now we will be forced by law to pay them. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No reform at all is preferable to being forced to pay for exorbitant private insurance. The cooperatives will not solve the problem because they   will not create a national system with powerful negotiating power, but will have to compete for service providers with private insurers and thus pay high rates even to get doctors and nurses to work for them.  There would also be enormous start-up costs to create totally new, untried systems.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Medicare is already set up and works great.  The simplest reform to make — and one that would be acceptable to the vast majority of voters — would be  to extend Medicare to everyone, providing low overhead and complete choice of family doctors and hospitals.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Our slogan should be “Anything less than Medicare for all is unacceptable”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write:</p>
<blockquote><p>With all the disappointments, Obama has already enacted more progressive changes than any Pres. in 40 years, and has gotten as close to universal coverage as we’ve ever been.With</p></blockquote>
<p>Would you please list the “more progressive changes” you are referring to, I seemed to have missed them, unless you are referring to the billions of dollars he has handed big corporations to pay off their credit default swaps gambling debts.</p>
<p>AS for getting us “close to universal coverage”, what I see emerging is a universal mandate requiring all Americans, whether they can afford it or not, to give the private insurers even more of their money. Unless there is a robust public option, our health insurance costs will continue to sky rocket, but now we will be forced by law to pay them. </p>
<p>No reform at all is preferable to being forced to pay for exorbitant private insurance. The cooperatives will not solve the problem because they   will not create a national system with powerful negotiating power, but will have to compete for service providers with private insurers and thus pay high rates even to get doctors and nurses to work for them.  There would also be enormous start-up costs to create totally new, untried systems.</p>
<p>Medicare is already set up and works great.  The simplest reform to make — and one that would be acceptable to the vast majority of voters — would be  to extend Medicare to everyone, providing low overhead and complete choice of family doctors and hospitals.</p>
<p>Our slogan should be “Anything less than Medicare for all is unacceptable”.</p>
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