We need at least a robust public option. Anything less is nothing.

they dont care
BETTER TO PLAY KABUKI,DUCK AND TWIST with 100 less Dems

Even Cokie Roberts was talking sense on NPR this morning, which scared me a bit. She accurately depicted the GOP as obstructionists, conservative Democrats in the Senate as hijacking the process, and liberals as infuriated with the idea of dropping the public option.

Stay the course Jane! If 100 House Dems refuse to pass the bill without a public option – or Obama vetoes a bill without it – we win, and have you to thank.

Shorter Blanche DuBois Lincoln: I never met a five-figure campaign contributor I didn’t love.
Lincoln: I Could Vote No On Health Care Reform

Great news!

Hooray for Congressman Weiner. Now can we get him on the major networks saying this?

Is Rahm Emanuel really the villain in this? Max Baucus would rather be hit by a truck than consider single payer. Obama chose not to send a bill out of the White House, but let a fragmented Democratic caucus come up with whatever. When people on our side wanted to put pressure on wavering Dems, Obama told us to back off, and he hasn’t been nearly as forceful fighting for health reform as he has for really important stuff, like continuing to fund our off-the-books wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. So if things go down the tube, I think the blame belongs to Obama and the Congressional Democratic leadership.

That being said, it’s heartening to hear the possibility that Democratic progressives in the House, even if they can’t get anything passed on their own, can block bullshit “reform.”

Good to hear.

If this bill passes with a public option, it should be called the Jane Hamsher Health Care Bill of 2009.

I hope the house can save us from a HORRIBLE bill. If all they want to pass is a giant welfare bill for insurance and drug companies, were better off with nothing, and SCREW obamas and O-Rahmas politicals careers

He’s not the ONLY villain, but he is the PRINCIPAL villain. I have always despised that DLC ass.

Disgusted that Obama is caving to the minority (including Blueshit Dems) – why did we work so hard to win the majority?

Whats the latest word on the WH deal with the drug companies on prices are the House and Senate going to go along to get along and screw us Nancy, Harry and Rahm style cause its the best way to *vomit* get things done
the perfect is the enemy of the good half assed.

What are the chances that Dr. Dean is right about the conference bill? If the Senate Finance passes a bill without the public option, is it likely that it will be added back in conference?

3
Even Cokie Roberts was talking sense on NPR this morning, which scared me a bit

Cokie talking Sense are the skies purple today? Did the Temp just drop 10 – 15 degrees quick I think I need to check for a Twister.

Don’t forget to call the WH today. 202-456-1111

Must be a cold snap in Hell.

There’s not a political career in DC worth one person’s life.

Lines busy at the WH 202-456-1111 but keep trying.

Blue Dogs, Republicans, anyone on the other side of the aisle.

And who said that the media couldn’t report things honestly.

Is Rahm Emanuel really the villain

He would be if he were more effective:) But yes if this fails Obama, Baucus, the Democratic party get the blame.
And by fail I mean fail to pass a good bill Public Option and drug prices same as Canada and Mexico pay whatever is cheaper.
If the Progressives block passage of a half assed bill well then I think we might have finally found some Dems with Stones.
The next step will then be to get them to Replace Harry and Nancy.

Looking at the bigger economic picture and even setting aside what we as the public need for our own health and welfare, Weiner is exactly right: reform without cost containment is no reform at all. Healthcare costs will still spiral out of control, until they get, as the CBO already predicts, to 15%+ of GDP or worse, and the whole economy is put into jeopardy. This is simply not an option. Fix it now when you have a chance to do it right, or later, in the next recession (probably caused by this very issue), when the sky is falling down around you and the cost of the fix will be devastatingly high… the underlying problem still remains until we have the political will to solve it. Ironically, it’s supposed to be the Senate’s job to see this bigger picture.

If the public option is “only a sliver” then it won’t matter if it passes, will it?

Obama would seem to have come to a knife fight armed with a water pistol. Did he learn anything in Chicago? Somebody please send him a copy of the “Untouchables” with Connery’s classic take on how to fight the good fight.

Is the healthcare debate a citizens vs. corporations fight? What should President Obama do this week to fix this weekend’s “mix up”?? all interesting questions to discuss.

Yup.

The 64 pledges mean nothing. Politicians’ views “evolve” all the time, especially when their President puts on the pressure.

This has all blown up in Obama’s face, and now he is desperate for something — anything — just to save face. He won’t care what’s in the final product as long as he can claim “victory.”

So the Dems will make a big old stinking piece of sausage that nobody likes, get enough progressives and blue dogs to cave, put lipstick on it, and say, “we won.”

I don’t like Rahm either — I still haven’t forgotten Christine Cegelis — but I just think we’re being distracted by blaming him. Obama knew what he was doing when he hired him.

Yes when the wise heads like Cokie all want to postion themselves away from trouble ahead of time and start talking sense its time to bring the cat in something big and quite possibly dangerous might be going down soon.
Something may or may not happen but something has Cokie a Queen of the oblivious Talking Head scared sensible since her only reporting skills are listening at Washington Cocktail Parties and reading GOP talking points I’m betting the GOP is about to do something foolish.
So foolish Cokie needs distance? So Foolish Cokie thinks its a bad idea?
Nothing may happen But I am nervous.

Mayor Daley then for Rahm’s job? Interesting

How could that reporter think that the public option was single payer? Did she not read the article she was holding up at all?

At any rate, I’m glad that there’s a venue on TV where progressives can actually explain their positions and reasoning without being shouted down. Politness still counts for something.

I also want a Healthcare bill that takes effect now not a few years from now. Ask people what they want more the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan or Healthcare.
Forget oil and national security at 230 mpg the Volt takes care of that

Yeah, we’ve seen for years what “compromise” with Republicans turns into. All the spending with none of the benefits.

That’s exactly where health care will end up if there’s no robust public option.

We have to draw a line in the sand on this one. Teabaggers aren’t the only ones who can work to sink legislation — and if WE do it, we won’t have to make up our own ‘facts.’

well.. here we go and I guess it was inevitable: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32…..t_project/

A healthcare system so broken that its starting to cause the ultimate form of systemic economic failure – where the official currency holds less value than debased goods or services – in other words, reversion to a barter economy.

Thanks rethugs and insurers. This is how Rome fell, arsehats.

Eeek!! You mean Blackwater’s about to get into the insurance biz?

We get the money for healthcare by ending the wars if we need more cash we tax the rich. If the GOP screams Ossama we point out that Bush gave up the hunt for Ossama to invade Iraq and then let him live heck he gave the country protecting Ossama billions Pakistani intelligence got Ossama connected to the Taliban.
Ossama we know gets his cash from oil rich arab states.

Thanks Jane ! The Force is With You and all those who support a strong public option.

Keep at it and we’ll get a strong bill that pivots to Single Payer.

I’m wondering if there’s a way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Let’s presume that the House passes a bill with the public option, and the Senate passes a bill with no public option. It then gets resolved in conference committee, right? The good guys then need to make sure that the final bill has the public option.

Problem: Baucus will probably be one of the people in the conference committee room.

I don’t think we get it here. This whole plan is wired to fail in Congress. Either the House defeats it or the Senate, as they are on mutually exclusive paths.

Don’t you get it? Business as usual for the health care industry. A big sigh of relief, the same as when the Clinton plan went nowhere.

I was thinking the tea baggers or Minute men were going to violently disrupt a town hall to try and get back some momentum on their side.
But your idea works too. Something big enough that Cokie is distancing herself from the GOP this is finding our your best friend is a serial killer and turing him into the cops big.

Weiner did a great job! Every single one of the CNBC people were spouting Republican nonsense and Weiner put them to shame. I wish every Dem. who went on TV was as well informed as Weiner.

Wow, the most pathetic part of that interview is when Weiner has to explain to the interviewer that the public plan is different from single payer. How do these morons get in a position of influence?

“Anything less is nothing?” Tell that to 47 million Americans with no insurance who might get it if liberals don’t overreact. Tell that to millions who can’t get iinsurance because of preexisting conditions or who lose it when insurance companies decide their costs are too high. We can help these people or we can be selfish and inflexible. At least with the far right you can expect stupidity. With the left I expect grown-up behavior designed to help people. We want the public option, but that is not the only issue here.

The entire Dem Party will be in the wilderness if they fail to pass a bill with a strong public option.

That said, I believe that Pelosi and the House will get a strong public option even if Senate Finance strips it from their Bill.

In fact, to get the Bill to conference quickly and maintain momentum, I would tell Senate Finance to do so and after this gets passed, we campaign against all the nay voters, Repugs & Dems.

This is the last stand of the BlueDogs … they’re going to get beaten very badly in ‘10 & ‘12.

MAD is what’s going on. Mutually Assured Destruction of health care reform.

My money’s on the Italian Grandma getting her Public Option …

At 230 mpg well lets say the average American car gets 30 mpg so for every Volt on the road 30 goes into 230, 7 times that means we have taken 6 cards off the road decreasing our oil demand.
If cash for clunkers gave $4,000 ? for a clunker and the Prius gets 50 mpg gallon 50 goes into 230, 4 times
next years cash for clunkers should give $4,000 * 4 = $16,000 for buying a Volt.
Volts will run I think for $40,000 but if you subtract $16,000 you get $24,000 which makes the Volt very affordable at that price. I’m guessing GM could sell a million a year.
Maybe more EW and the economists here probably can make better estimates than I can on this matter.
With an unexpected Million sales I wonder if GM will be able to pay off their loan quicker?

What about drug prices though?

Actually a very heartening post. Who’da thunk it? :-)

We’re not being selfish and inflexible. We all want a national-single-payer system. What we’re fighting for now is the compromise of the compromise.

Many of the 47 million Americans can get insurance now if they just pay for it out of their own pocket. It seems to me this bill, without a Public Option, just has the government forcing us to pay for that insurance whether we can afford it or not. Sure they’ll give some subsidies to the poor, but I’m willing to bet it won’t be enough. So it amounts to insurance companies getting even richer off of a) the government and b) the poor and middle class.

I still don’t have a clear understanding of how this will be portable.

Making it illegal to deny someone for a pre-existing condition sounds good, but I have to believe it’s like all those old stories where someone finds a genie’s lamp, but each of their wishes gets twisted into something horrible.

Even with the Public Option, what’s being ’seriously’ debated in congress is a terrible bill. Eliminating the Public Option is just the last straw that takes it from bad to horrible.

The only problem with your figures is that the person who buys the Volt probably doesn’t own 6 other cars. That person will take one gas hog off the road, maybe 2 if the buyer decides to get rid of a second car.

another problem is that the Volt requires a plug – which means a lot of city drivers like me (probably the best market for this type of thing) couldn’t buy it until the large garages and parallel slots into which we deposit our cars during the day and at night have outlets.

Synergy to pay for Healthcare we end the wars and fund cash for clunkers next year as I said. A million cars on the road next year getting 230 mpg will be the equivalent of taking 6 million cars off the road aside from the reduction in pollution and lower health care claims from pollution. We create a demand driven drop in the price of oil.
We also defund Ossama Yes Economic warfare fight Smart not hard when you can.
Can anybody get the Dems to steal this idea please:)

Well, our president has gotten himself into quite a little pickle here. He let the thugs run away with the messaging, didn’t put on his big boy trousers and insist on a public option, didn’t go after the Dogs and didn’t keep old Rahm on his leash.

I truly believe if these House Dems hold strong and refuse to vote for anything less than a ROBUST public option, the others will cave in versus not getting any bill passed. it is almost preferable to me to say the hell with rather than a crappy bill.

I am uninsured AND unemployed so I have skin in the game. BUT hell by 2013, when this supposedly is going to happen, I’ll either be dead from lack of access to care or I’ll have a job.

I also find it ironic that for the TARP and stimulous programs it only took a few months to get those off the ground but it takes 3 YEARS to get reform up and running? What’s wrong with that scenerio?

Granted its a time factor dependent idea if you reduce one person’s gas usage at lets say $40 a month 6 times then it does take 6 months for that reduction in pollution and oil demand to fully take effect.
And another 6 months for any change in the economy to work its way through the economy like lower oil prices or more consumer spending on stuff other than gas.

I think TCU was referring to fuel consumption. There are going to be a lot of Hybrids, EVs available in 2010, which will result in lower fuel demand.

Obama and Rahm sided with the Blue Dogs before the debate even began. Speed and haste were essential to sneaking through a public option ‘back door’ to single payer. But the American people, reeling from the spending on TARP, bailouts, the ’stimulus’ screamed “STOP!”

Now that we are able to examine exactly what the public option means for us all, the suppport for reform is plummeting. Obama is talking out of both sides of his mouth and simply adding confusion and skepticism to the debate.

yup. You’re absolutely right. Soon it will be a compromise for a compromise and then another compromise on top. Soon we’ll have zero left in the bill. Except of course for the insurance companies who will be given 3 years or more to get rid of the pre existing condition thing and the not kicking you out if you get sick thing. And during those 3 years, premiums will skyrocket.

Mission accomplished!

i love you muchly!

The plug-in hybrid is ideal for those of us in rural and suburban areas though. The full-electric car doesn’t necessarily have the range we need, but with the plug-in hybrid, we’re golden.

I don’t know what the solution is for city dwellers. Eventually some sort of electricity vending machines as common as parking meters, but I’m sure it will take quite a bit of time to get that kind of infrastructure up and running on a widespread basis.

The other big question is can our current grid handle the extra load of a million plug-in hybrids? I don’t know the answer to that question, but I think it’s a good question to ask.

Great message Jane !!! Well done….

Drug prices will be lower from two angles … one is allowing states to collectively purchase Meds and the more important one is preventative care, which will mean buying less drugs in the long term.

This is going to get even more messy and there are many in the MSM who will be pushing the talking points of those opposed to this and who want to split the Left. We must stick together and not give in to knee jerk reactions.

Got that right. And Obama may be looking at one term.

*mwaah* … I hope Harry and the BlueDogs realize who they’re going up against and wear extra thick Boxers …

But the American people, reeling from the spending on TARP, bailouts, the ’stimulus’ screamed “STOP!”

Actually it was the astroturf that screamed “STOP!” but some American people rightfully wary of the bank bailouts (started by Bush and Republicans) were willing to give them a listen.

And knowing that a careful consideration of the facts would lead to a more “liberal” plan – the Insurance company astroturfers carefully crafted a series of lies to try to exploit the fears of the American people.

i hope they suk eggzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Look between the lines, while Weiner was saying this, the lower third reads; “CBO says House bill will add to the deficit”

this is completely untrue…but convenient since polls showed adding to the deficit is unpopular and most Americans want to scrap healthcare if he does.

I don’t see that out here in the real world.

LOL … Dinosaur ones !

But the lower third reinforced the Republican lies…sadly a lot of people who watch CNBC don’t pay attention to the voices, just the lower third.

there is something to be said about defunding the Pentagon’s new weapons systems budgets for a period of time in order to address domestic issues like healthcare and deficit reduction. The Pentagon’s capital procurement and R&D budgets total about $210 billion a year, of which major new boon-doggle weapon system programs larger than $500 million per program account for about half. Imagine what we could do with $100 billion a year from racapturing part of this discretionary spending, for, say, 5 years? I’m not talking about cutting military salaries or operations by a dime – just new weapon systems for a short period of time. It’s not like any of our enemies will notice that we aren’t spending the $12 billion per year committed to new strategic missile defense initiatives or the $4 billion per year allocated to the Future Combat System. Its not even clear what remaining enemies these systems are supposed to be designed to fight.

OK, this would increase unemployment among weapons manufacturers, but I’m sure we can reintegrate these people more productively into the economy somewhere else.

great job on andrea mitchell today, jane! long live free dog lake!

Great job answering the questions Andrea Mitchell didn’t know enough to ask! Sam Stein has a piece about a 2000 study of the costs of co-ops. It’s the only thing you could have added to what you said.

Great point I will mention and credit you if I diary this.

whats wrong with that scenario?

well 2013 is after the election cycle of 2012, primarily.

this bill is such a dog they don’t want to have to answer questions about it in their campaigns, they’ll just say ‘wait and see, it’ll be great!.’

No Public Plan, make it universal and delete the senate, the house and the bureaucrats Public Health Plans and make them go out into the streets and buy their own health plans at Free Market Rates.

Jane, you did a great job today. Let the Obama administration and the blue dogs KNOW the truth. We will never support any plan coming out of this Congress that does not have a public option. Second, that public option should be single payer. We will not spend a red cent more than is already in the system. Health care companies wrote the co op bill…is that why Obama refuses to give up his “visitor log”? Big Pharma guests? What is the diff between Obama and Big Pharma, and Cheney and Oil Companies? PROGRESSIVES MUST STAND UP TO OBAMA. Get a scoring on single payer let the public see those numbers. If they refuse…we better look for a REAL progressive in 2012. In the meantime we will get closer to going over the cliff, more people will lose their jobs, more people going bankrupt, the economy stalling….and Obama and his blue dog buddies will not serve another term. We are the majority! These bullies in the school yard forcing these lame ass blue dogs to back off the public option, proves only one thing…they are more interested in getting re elected than serving the american people. DUMP THEM ALL, ELECT ONLY PROGRESSIVES.

How afraid are the blue dogs? Senator Tom Carper, Senator Ted Kaufman and repuke Mike Castle are not going to hold ANY town hall meetings in Delaware. Its not that they are afraid of talking about health care, they are terrified we the people are going to expose the millions of dollars insurance companies gave them in campaign contributions. A few bullies scare these blue dogs? You have to be a mental midget not to be figure out that democrats are no different than conservative repukes. Tom Carper’s office said, “he would only support a plan that was bipartisan”. Is that proof enough to tell us the democrats are no better than republicans? We dont have a two party system, we have one party…the corporate party, one headed snake.

We should also know that in the last two months, $57million dollars have been delivered to every news organization in this country. Thats why you wont hear Chris Matthews, or even the most liberal Rachel and Keith mention the words, “single payer”. Their bosses are telling them to talk about health care in ways where they dont have to mention single payer. Only Ed Schultz and Amy Goodman have delivered the truth, the rest of the news pundits are in the pocket of corporate america, keeping the confusion going, talking about Sarah Palin and other non stories, rather than telling the truth. Even Lou Dobbs had to admit that he maybe changing his mind over single payer after he did all those stories about the 30 civilized nations who have single payer, proving they live longer, they have better outcomes, and provide real health care!

Howard Dean on MSNBC today said it best. Just open Medicare enrollment and make this system work. Single Payer is the only way to proceed and Congressman Weiner has my vote for President next election. I’m totally fed up with the Pres wasting his mandate and pandering to the Bluecrossdogs and Republicans. Were’s the change he promised?

Watched the video, and a couple of things to notice:

* This is Rep. Anthony Weiner (NY-09), a Democrat

* He’s a good spokesperson for health care reform, and I’m glad he was on CNBC. I think a lot of his points would appeal to CNBC’s target audience. He talked about costs, and the type of market that health care is. Business people grok that stuff.

* If his guess that Republicans won’t support any Democratic-sponsored health care bill is right, and I think most of us agree it is, then health care reform minus something called a “public option” probably isn’t happening.

* I liked his answer on the “incremental” meme. Once again, it was business plan oriented. Leave worrying about how long it would be before Congress got around to the next increment to cynics like me.

* Did the introductory voice over mispronounce Weiner’s name, or was it the folks in the discussion? It’s spelled as though it should be pronounced “whiner”.

Yes, these are points you’ve raised, but as folks here may have noticed, I don’t always see things the same way. Call this a long-winded “me too” response.

Isn’t it Carl Quintanilla?

wow

in the nineteen thirties, doctors exchanged their services for chickens and the like.

Look, you can assume almost everyone on this post (including me) prefers a single payer system and a robust public option as a second choice. But the point I tried to make earlier is that there are other progressive values at stake (expanded and more secure coverage, reduction in unneeded subsidies to providers, etc) independent of those options.

And the posts here seems awfully naive to me, as if folks don’t realize that the votes aren’t there and aren’t likely to be there for everything we want. Reform the electoral process, elect more progressives: absolutely. But in the interim, threatening to walk off the field only gives the victory to the right wing nuts, puts off health care reform for more years (or decades) and may set up the GOP return to power.

With all the disappointments, Obama has already enacted more progressive changes than any Pres. in 40 years, and has gotten as close to universal coverage as we’ve ever been. If we don’t come through now, the outcome is more likely to be right wing triumph than some improbable uprising of a hidden liberal majority. (If you think we’re going to elect true blue liberals in all those Blue Dog districts, I have some subprime mortgages I’d like to sell you.) Please, let’s get real, and try to help people, not just throw out slogans.

If so many Democrat congresspeople intend to vote against a plan that does not contain a public option, why won’t they all say so? What’s in it for them to gain by intending to vote down a plan that doesn’t contain a public option, but not to mention it in public?

JIM QUINTIANILLA: So you think he will lose the liberal wing of his own party, and you don’t think he can make it up by attracting Blue Dogs, Republicans, anyone on the other side of the aisle.

[Jane]Yes, Blue Dogs are “on the other side of the aisle.”

bing000000

jane, combined with your “the public option IS the compromise you are ON FIRE today

You write:

With all the disappointments, Obama has already enacted more progressive changes than any Pres. in 40 years, and has gotten as close to universal coverage as we’ve ever been.With

Would you please list the “more progressive changes” you are referring to, I seemed to have missed them, unless you are referring to the billions of dollars he has handed big corporations to pay off their credit default swaps gambling debts.

AS for getting us “close to universal coverage”, what I see emerging is a universal mandate requiring all Americans, whether they can afford it or not, to give the private insurers even more of their money. Unless there is a robust public option, our health insurance costs will continue to sky rocket, but now we will be forced by law to pay them.

No reform at all is preferable to being forced to pay for exorbitant private insurance. The cooperatives will not solve the problem because they will not create a national system with powerful negotiating power, but will have to compete for service providers with private insurers and thus pay high rates even to get doctors and nurses to work for them. There would also be enormous start-up costs to create totally new, untried systems.

Medicare is already set up and works great. The simplest reform to make — and one that would be acceptable to the vast majority of voters — would be to extend Medicare to everyone, providing low overhead and complete choice of family doctors and hospitals.

Our slogan should be “Anything less than Medicare for all is unacceptable”.

Well, anyone paying attention should know that Obama has a long list of progressive achievements in just 6 months, certainly not everything we want and some disappointments for sure, but, who’s done more in the past 4 decades?

Just a few of the initial accomplishments:
– The largest infusion of cash for green energy ever;
– support for fighting climate change through comprehensive legislation now (as well as rejoining the world community on this one);
– progressive appointments at EPA and Interior, and undoing a series of disastrous Bush env. policies;
– removing restrictions on birth control and family planning in US international policy;
– removing limits on womens’ ability to sue for workplace discrimination;
– clearly banning torture and promising to close Guantanamo;
– approaching the world as a partner rather than a threat;
– implementing his commitment to removing US combat troops from Iraq;
– signing a big expansion of childrens’ health care;
– providing help to folks with troubled mortgages;
– passing a large stimulus to create jobs (through progressive actions to help schools, state employees, green energy (again), mass transit, etc). Etc, etc, etc

Regarding expanded access to health care, Obama is pursuing strong limits on what insurance companies can do and a series of steps to reduce costs and subsidize families that need help.

We worked so hard to see if we could do it and elect someone we wanted. We’ve now proved that we can, so let’s get on with it and show this President that he gets nothing without us, and let’s also get to organizing a third party so that we have somewhere to go in 2012, if this character keeps up his triangulation on the center-right.

I think a lot of that depends on Obama, on Harry Reid, and on Nancy Pelosi. I say this because Reid and Pelosi will select the conferees from their Houses of Congress. If Obama thinks that the reform can’t win a final vote in the House if the Conference bill has no public option, then he will pressure Reid and Pelosi to select the right people for the conference committee.

That means no Blue Dogs, no Max Baucus, no Kent Conrad, but people like Chris Dodd (close to Teddy), Chuck Schumer, Jay Rockefeller, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold and so on.

In the House, Pelosi needs to appoint people like John Conyers, Anthony Weiner, Chellie Pingree, Dennis Kucinich, Donna Edwards, Jackie Speier, Raul Grijalva, Robert Wexler, and Yvette Clark, and avoid people like Mike Ross, Jim Cooper, Heath Shuler, Gabrielle Giffords, and Jane Harman.

Whether the White House pressures Reid and Pelosi to do this will depend on whether the progressives in the House hold firm on a public option. Today, Anthony Weiner says that Obama could lose 100 votes in the House if there’s no public option. If he’s right and the town meetings from now until Congress comes back begin to reflect progressive sentiment about Medicare for All, the White House might pressure in this way. If the right wing continues to dominate the public stage for the next three weeks, I think Obama will sit back and pass a compromise bill that’s a total giveaway to the insurance industry.

I think that’s true, and I also think that even if we mobilize a lot of progressive opinion in back of a public option and the President thinks he has to give the progressives something, he will at most give them the kind of sliver that is in HR 3200, with an operational date in 2013. That will satisfy many of the Congresspeople, and also HCAN, and a few of the other “progressive” interest groups in back of health care reform. But that kind of public option won’t work to contain costs, and in the end will earn defeat at the polls for the Democrats and an example the Republicans would very much like to have of another Government program that is not working.

No we won’t. If we ask for a public option the most we will get is a PO bill that’s so weak it won’t work. If we really want a good PO bill, we have to insist on Medicare for All and get enough people behind it to scare the crap out of them!

I agree, if only because if that were our slogan we’d be much more likely to get to a meaningful public option like Jacob Hacker’s original proposal. If we fail to get that kind of public option, I think we’d be much better off with a minimalist bill that declared it illegal for insurance companies to 1) deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, 2) charge people with pre-existing conditions more than others are charged, 3) rescind anyone’s policy because they failed to report a pre-existing condition, or because they got sick while insured, or 4) raise anyone’s premiums because they’ve gotten sick while insured.

If we passed just that right now and made it effective immediately, we’d stop a lot of the bleeding going on due to the private insurance system; and next year (in an election year) we could come back and push for Medicare for All, which we’d either get, or alternatively be able to negotiate a Jacob Hacker type of PO system in return for mandating health insurance coverage.

Notice this sequence of doing things would be much harder for “Blue Dogs” to oppose. That is, how could any Democrat object to the above 4 requirements without explicitly aligning themselves with the insurance companies? Enacting these four requirements wouldn’t even cost very much; other than enforcement. CBO would score it very well.

Further, if such a bill passed, it would immediately impose heavy costs on the insurance companies and begin to wipe out their profits; putting them in a much more favorable frame of mind for negotiating either a worthwhile public plan in 2010, or even Medicare for All.

In da House Grandma gets whatever Grandma wants! Heh.
Eh, you want we should twist some arms? Alright then…

You criticize the reform in an off-hand way as if nobody is going to ask you for some specific(s) about it.

What about the reform bills do you dislike enough to call a dog?

I’ve heard opponents of reform for a few weeks now (at least) and they have yet to come up with even one real criticism which held up under close scrutiny. And, even one (the so-called “death panel”) was fine, but the Dems took it out anyway. Irony is it was created by a Republican. Same with the home nursing aid for new parents (came from Republican Senator Kit Bond [R-MO]).

So, either put up some valid arguments or shut up.

Anthony Weiner is very good. Just the right sort of person to lead the liberal wing. They have had no leader at the moment. That’s why the health care issue got into this mess! If the liberals don’t elect a leader each major issue will have its own mess.