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	<title>Comments on: Sorry, Can&#8217;t Pass Health Care Bill Without A Public Option</title>
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	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: cirrusclouds</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38272</link>
		<dc:creator>cirrusclouds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry, Not Enough House Votes To Pass Health Care Bill Without a Public Option&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry, not enough &lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;Senate&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;votes to pass health care bill with a public option.  The Senate will not be able to pass a bill that has a public option.  Very likely could be a stalemate and nothing gets done.  I could live with that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Not Enough House Votes To Pass Health Care Bill Without a Public Option<br />
Sorry, not enough <strong></strong>Senate<strong></strong>votes to pass health care bill with a public option.  The Senate will not be able to pass a bill that has a public option.  Very likely could be a stalemate and nothing gets done.  I could live with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard729</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38270</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard729</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can’t think of a more important issue to me today than universal health care in America. We all know the statistics when we’re compared to other modern industrialized countries who have coverage for all of their citizens so there’s no point in counting them off. We do know for sure that we spend more on health care per capita than any other country, but the benefits apply only to those who can afford it. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Barack Obama was the most promising Democratic Party candidate to come along in the new century with overwhelming support from young voters, minorities, Independents and other disadvantaged people in America. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yet, in spite of the “audacity of hope” I have this nagging feeling that Republicans are winning the war of words and their anti-Obama propaganda is being regurgitated on the evening news to a nauseous extent. I keep asking myself, “Haven’t the mainstream media learned squat since the horrific W.M.D. lies that led up to the catastrophe in Iraq?” Then, they were all tripping over themselves to show how patriotic they were while simultaneously pillorying those who criticized the Bush “just and noble” war. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, all the media cameras are focused on the violence-prone NRA types who are circling town hall venues with assault weapons, allowing the grandstanding that Fox News are exploiting to the hilt. After all, more Southern whites, according to a statistic just released, watch Fox News more than any other TV network.     &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Howard Dean appeared on Keith Olbermann’s Countdown tonight and said a few things that were reassuring though. He believes a good bill, mainly one that includes the public option, will be passed and Obama will sign it by December. I hope he’s right. The rest of the gnashing of teeth and hand wringing by Democrats predicting chaos, he says, is typical angst and they’ll eventually get over it and sign on. The way I see it, there’s no half-good bill. It either must give all Americans accessibility or the Democrats might as well say good-bye to their majority status.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can’t think of a more important issue to me today than universal health care in America. We all know the statistics when we’re compared to other modern industrialized countries who have coverage for all of their citizens so there’s no point in counting them off. We do know for sure that we spend more on health care per capita than any other country, but the benefits apply only to those who can afford it. </p>
<p>Barack Obama was the most promising Democratic Party candidate to come along in the new century with overwhelming support from young voters, minorities, Independents and other disadvantaged people in America. </p>
<p>Yet, in spite of the “audacity of hope” I have this nagging feeling that Republicans are winning the war of words and their anti-Obama propaganda is being regurgitated on the evening news to a nauseous extent. I keep asking myself, “Haven’t the mainstream media learned squat since the horrific W.M.D. lies that led up to the catastrophe in Iraq?” Then, they were all tripping over themselves to show how patriotic they were while simultaneously pillorying those who criticized the Bush “just and noble” war. </p>
<p>Now, all the media cameras are focused on the violence-prone NRA types who are circling town hall venues with assault weapons, allowing the grandstanding that Fox News are exploiting to the hilt. After all, more Southern whites, according to a statistic just released, watch Fox News more than any other TV network.     </p>
<p>Howard Dean appeared on Keith Olbermann’s Countdown tonight and said a few things that were reassuring though. He believes a good bill, mainly one that includes the public option, will be passed and Obama will sign it by December. I hope he’s right. The rest of the gnashing of teeth and hand wringing by Democrats predicting chaos, he says, is typical angst and they’ll eventually get over it and sign on. The way I see it, there’s no half-good bill. It either must give all Americans accessibility or the Democrats might as well say good-bye to their majority status.</p>
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		<title>By: davidgmills</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38201</link>
		<dc:creator>davidgmills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Congressman Steve Cohen from Memphis has a recent video (from a speech he gave on the house floor) on his website saying he believes we need Medicare for all.  I live in Memphis but unfortunately my congresswoman is that dark-hearted dizzy-headed Marsha Blackburn.  it is totally a waste of time to call her.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But several weeks ago I called Cohen’s office and I was told he had not made a commitment yet.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It looks like he is squarely in our camp now and probably needs to take the Firedoglake pledge.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congressman Steve Cohen from Memphis has a recent video (from a speech he gave on the house floor) on his website saying he believes we need Medicare for all.  I live in Memphis but unfortunately my congresswoman is that dark-hearted dizzy-headed Marsha Blackburn.  it is totally a waste of time to call her.</p>
<p>But several weeks ago I called Cohen’s office and I was told he had not made a commitment yet.  </p>
<p>It looks like he is squarely in our camp now and probably needs to take the Firedoglake pledge.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard729</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38142</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard729</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38142</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Howard Dean made that point today — that without a public option there’s no health care reform for millions of Americans. The co-op idea must really be making Republicans laugh because they know it’s absurd on the face of it yet they also smell blood. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perceiving that Obama is caving in faster than they anticipated they are making sounds like, “Oh, private non-profit cooperatives? Hmm, we’ll have to think about that and then get back to you.” Like they care. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, it would make no difference at all what plan Obama has in the works, especially one that helps tens of millions of Americans who desperately need immediate help. Republicans will oppose anything and everything that is connected to Barack Obama because to them, this is déjà vu 1994. That’s when Republicans defeated Bill Clinton’s health care and then took over both houses of congress, control which they held for 12 tortuous years. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Democrat,”yellow dog” Kent Conrad says we can’t chase the government option rabbit and it won’t work. Well, who is he to say when he comes from a state that has fewer citizens in the entire state than we do in the city of Austin, Texas? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not only that, but North Dakota lost population, decreasing from 642,200 in 2000 to 639,715 in 2007. What happened to those other 2,500 people? Did the 2003 end of life doctor-patient consultation provision that the Republicans included in the Medicare Part D kill grandma? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No public option, no health care reform — period. Unless something changes drastically between now and 2012 I can’t think of many things Barack Obama could do to make me want to vote him back in again. The way he caved in to the gun lobby it won’t be long before he capitulates to the Religious Right and supports overturning Roe v. Wade and the teaching of Creation Science in public school science classrooms.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard Dean made that point today — that without a public option there’s no health care reform for millions of Americans. The co-op idea must really be making Republicans laugh because they know it’s absurd on the face of it yet they also smell blood. </p>
<p>Perceiving that Obama is caving in faster than they anticipated they are making sounds like, “Oh, private non-profit cooperatives? Hmm, we’ll have to think about that and then get back to you.” Like they care. </p>
<p>Of course, it would make no difference at all what plan Obama has in the works, especially one that helps tens of millions of Americans who desperately need immediate help. Republicans will oppose anything and everything that is connected to Barack Obama because to them, this is déjà vu 1994. That’s when Republicans defeated Bill Clinton’s health care and then took over both houses of congress, control which they held for 12 tortuous years. </p>
<p>Democrat,”yellow dog” Kent Conrad says we can’t chase the government option rabbit and it won’t work. Well, who is he to say when he comes from a state that has fewer citizens in the entire state than we do in the city of Austin, Texas? </p>
<p>Not only that, but North Dakota lost population, decreasing from 642,200 in 2000 to 639,715 in 2007. What happened to those other 2,500 people? Did the 2003 end of life doctor-patient consultation provision that the Republicans included in the Medicare Part D kill grandma? </p>
<p>No public option, no health care reform — period. Unless something changes drastically between now and 2012 I can’t think of many things Barack Obama could do to make me want to vote him back in again. The way he caved in to the gun lobby it won’t be long before he capitulates to the Religious Right and supports overturning Roe v. Wade and the teaching of Creation Science in public school science classrooms.</p>
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		<title>By: spktruth</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38135</link>
		<dc:creator>spktruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Haha! The whitehouse line has been busy for over 30 minutes….keep calling! Let them hear our rath.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha! The whitehouse line has been busy for over 30 minutes….keep calling! Let them hear our rath.</p>
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		<title>By: spktruth</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38134</link>
		<dc:creator>spktruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38134</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In Delaware the corporate capital, our state was so in the tank because of the bankers/credit card companies going bust,the state budget for 2009 was in the red $780 million. Our democratic governor decided to fix it we would go to “gambling….casinos and sports gambling”. We have had a single payer bill (a mirror of HR 676) in the legislature for 6 years. If that bill had been voted and passed, we could have saved GM and Chrysler plants that have now left the state. We can only hope no matter what these yellow dogs do….they leave in the provision that “states can enact their own single payer system”. California legislators twice sent a single payer bill to Arnold, and he refused to sign. Maine has sent theirs up twice and a repuke refused to sign on. Massachusetts lost their single payer system by one vote and adopted the horrific system of keeping the for profit and a Mitt Romney plan now driving Mass into bankruptcy. Even Romney stated when running for Prez, “he wouldnt want to adopt the Mass Plan for the country”. So why is Kennedy supporting it. Why John Kerry who received $8m in campaign contributions support a single payer plan…cuz they were all bought off decades ago. We have the lowest form of political culture, all our representatives are on the take and voting against any good government, for the people legislation that would finally give our people a break.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Delaware the corporate capital, our state was so in the tank because of the bankers/credit card companies going bust,the state budget for 2009 was in the red $780 million. Our democratic governor decided to fix it we would go to “gambling….casinos and sports gambling”. We have had a single payer bill (a mirror of HR 676) in the legislature for 6 years. If that bill had been voted and passed, we could have saved GM and Chrysler plants that have now left the state. We can only hope no matter what these yellow dogs do….they leave in the provision that “states can enact their own single payer system”. California legislators twice sent a single payer bill to Arnold, and he refused to sign. Maine has sent theirs up twice and a repuke refused to sign on. Massachusetts lost their single payer system by one vote and adopted the horrific system of keeping the for profit and a Mitt Romney plan now driving Mass into bankruptcy. Even Romney stated when running for Prez, “he wouldnt want to adopt the Mass Plan for the country”. So why is Kennedy supporting it. Why John Kerry who received $8m in campaign contributions support a single payer plan…cuz they were all bought off decades ago. We have the lowest form of political culture, all our representatives are on the take and voting against any good government, for the people legislation that would finally give our people a break.</p>
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		<title>By: spktruth</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38133</link>
		<dc:creator>spktruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38133</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is what bugs me. Why hasnt Obama TOLD us what he wants. His bs is wrapped up in flowery words, but no details. He could have gotten control of this debate long ago but he didnt. He has had to admit again and again that “single payer will cover everyone”, and in the next breath talk about the unknown for profit co-ops”. This is the blue dog Kent Conrad who had received millions from the very corporations he is supposed to be challenging. They are not blue dogs…these are yellow dogs with a lot of green in their campaign coffers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what bugs me. Why hasnt Obama TOLD us what he wants. His bs is wrapped up in flowery words, but no details. He could have gotten control of this debate long ago but he didnt. He has had to admit again and again that “single payer will cover everyone”, and in the next breath talk about the unknown for profit co-ops”. This is the blue dog Kent Conrad who had received millions from the very corporations he is supposed to be challenging. They are not blue dogs…these are yellow dogs with a lot of green in their campaign coffers.</p>
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		<title>By: spktruth</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38132</link>
		<dc:creator>spktruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38132</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;what bill….there are five of them. None of them have been voted on. I suppose you would rather have some MBA Beancounter in an for profit telling your doctor what treatment they will pay for…overruling your Doctor. Its time to get rid of these beancounters who actually collect a commission everytime they turn you and YOUR DOCTOR down. In 2000 I had to get a pacemaker…cost $50,000. Two weeks ago had another cost $150,000. the device is no different from the first one. Medicare got billed, (gouged) for that increase in cost. Using our premiums to knock out any real reform. 350,000 new lobbyists on the Hill, delivering money to secret accounts to the blue dogs and repukes? Right Obama and Rahm, all the millions of progressives who supported you, worked our butts off for you are now turning against you. Forget the wing nuts, you better worry about our voting block. Group after group are waking up to the fact that your regime is as disgustingly corporate whores as the last one. no change I can believe in.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what bill….there are five of them. None of them have been voted on. I suppose you would rather have some MBA Beancounter in an for profit telling your doctor what treatment they will pay for…overruling your Doctor. Its time to get rid of these beancounters who actually collect a commission everytime they turn you and YOUR DOCTOR down. In 2000 I had to get a pacemaker…cost $50,000. Two weeks ago had another cost $150,000. the device is no different from the first one. Medicare got billed, (gouged) for that increase in cost. Using our premiums to knock out any real reform. 350,000 new lobbyists on the Hill, delivering money to secret accounts to the blue dogs and repukes? Right Obama and Rahm, all the millions of progressives who supported you, worked our butts off for you are now turning against you. Forget the wing nuts, you better worry about our voting block. Group after group are waking up to the fact that your regime is as disgustingly corporate whores as the last one. no change I can believe in.</p>
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		<title>By: freemas</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38130</link>
		<dc:creator>freemas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38130</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nice try, but no, if health reform fails it will be because liberals decided that expansion of federal powers and a diminishing of the private sector is far more important than enacting reform legislation.  That is your true agenda here, isn’t it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice try, but no, if health reform fails it will be because liberals decided that expansion of federal powers and a diminishing of the private sector is far more important than enacting reform legislation.  That is your true agenda here, isn’t it?</p>
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		<title>By: powwow</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38122</link>
		<dc:creator>powwow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/sorry-cant-pass-health-care-bill-without-a-public-option/#comment-38122</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the liberals in the House hold firm would they have to insist the Senate pass their bill first, or would it matter?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m a little late, ES, but I’ll take a stab at answering this, or at least maybe help you to refine your question.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think any answer to your question has to involve the ominous and inscrutable secret proceedings of the free-for-all &lt;b&gt;conferencing&lt;/b&gt; process (to which only the most powerful Party bosses will be invited, absent a rebellion in the rank-and-file ranks) - which will take place &lt;b&gt;after&lt;/b&gt; the House and Senate have finished their public work on medical insurance reform.  A secret conference in which, if past is prologue, Rahm Emanuel and his colleagues in the &lt;b&gt;White House&lt;/b&gt; will effectively be in charge, on behalf of Obama.  With Reid and Pelosi (unless she decides to stand her democratic, independent-legislature ground for a change, even if against her will because of a firm stand by House progressives) obediently manufacturing &lt;b&gt;political&lt;/b&gt; cover for their members in exchange for votes on what &lt;b&gt;the president&lt;/b&gt; wants from a conferenced bill.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Most of what’s going on right now behind closed doors (largely by way of the private Baucus machinations) is a bastardized process of selecting a legislative &lt;b&gt;outcome&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;before debate and amendment and voting takes place &lt;b&gt;in public&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.  It’s an effort to prevent pressure-packed votes for incumbents on measures &lt;b&gt;Congress and the president &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; full-well the public wants&lt;/b&gt;, but that they know their campaign funders &lt;b&gt;do not&lt;/b&gt; want. So they are in the process of trying to find an end product that meets with the approval of their funders but that &lt;i&gt;can also somehow be plausibly sold&lt;/i&gt; to the American people, without mobs descending on Congress when we see them selling us out.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Party is in charge, in short, and the wimps in Congress want that Party to protect them &lt;b&gt;from us&lt;/b&gt;, however it can best be done.  And that means a relative handful of people at the top, including Baucus, are in charge, if the rest of the Congress, and the rest of the Finance Committee, won’t buck him or them, and demand genuine committee and floor debate and consideration, let the political-heat chips fall where they may.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The House progressive caucus &lt;b&gt;does&lt;/b&gt; have the numbers to make a difference here - but almost certainly &lt;b&gt;only by openly bucking their Party&lt;/b&gt;, and so far, Party (and its first African-American president) has trumped nation and the public interest for a large percentage of that fair-weather-friend, progressive-in-name-only caucus. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;If&lt;/b&gt; House progressives (and/or others) &lt;b&gt;do&lt;/b&gt; take a genuine stand to protect a meaningful public option, and stick to it - and assuming Republicans don’t cross over - the choice will become stark for the White House and the Senate: &lt;b&gt;compromise&lt;/b&gt; with Pelosi and the House, &lt;b&gt;or get no medical insurance reform this year.&lt;/b&gt;  Such a stand would at least bring the issue and the different sides very clearly into public view (a big plus for the will of the public) - and &lt;i&gt;that’s&lt;/i&gt; when the serious negotiating would really begin…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>If the liberals in the House hold firm would they have to insist the Senate pass their bill first, or would it matter?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m a little late, ES, but I’ll take a stab at answering this, or at least maybe help you to refine your question.</p>
<p>I think any answer to your question has to involve the ominous and inscrutable secret proceedings of the free-for-all <b>conferencing</b> process (to which only the most powerful Party bosses will be invited, absent a rebellion in the rank-and-file ranks) &#8211; which will take place <b>after</b> the House and Senate have finished their public work on medical insurance reform.  A secret conference in which, if past is prologue, Rahm Emanuel and his colleagues in the <b>White House</b> will effectively be in charge, on behalf of Obama.  With Reid and Pelosi (unless she decides to stand her democratic, independent-legislature ground for a change, even if against her will because of a firm stand by House progressives) obediently manufacturing <b>political</b> cover for their members in exchange for votes on what <b>the president</b> wants from a conferenced bill.</p>
<p>Most of what’s going on right now behind closed doors (largely by way of the private Baucus machinations) is a bastardized process of selecting a legislative <b>outcome</b> <i>before debate and amendment and voting takes place <b>in public</b></i>.  It’s an effort to prevent pressure-packed votes for incumbents on measures <b>Congress and the president <i>know</i> full-well the public wants</b>, but that they know their campaign funders <b>do not</b> want. So they are in the process of trying to find an end product that meets with the approval of their funders but that <i>can also somehow be plausibly sold</i> to the American people, without mobs descending on Congress when we see them selling us out.</p>
<p>The Party is in charge, in short, and the wimps in Congress want that Party to protect them <b>from us</b>, however it can best be done.  And that means a relative handful of people at the top, including Baucus, are in charge, if the rest of the Congress, and the rest of the Finance Committee, won’t buck him or them, and demand genuine committee and floor debate and consideration, let the political-heat chips fall where they may.  </p>
<p>The House progressive caucus <b>does</b> have the numbers to make a difference here &#8211; but almost certainly <b>only by openly bucking their Party</b>, and so far, Party (and its first African-American president) has trumped nation and the public interest for a large percentage of that fair-weather-friend, progressive-in-name-only caucus. </p>
<p><b>If</b> House progressives (and/or others) <b>do</b> take a genuine stand to protect a meaningful public option, and stick to it &#8211; and assuming Republicans don’t cross over &#8211; the choice will become stark for the White House and the Senate: <b>compromise</b> with Pelosi and the House, <b>or get no medical insurance reform this year.</b>  Such a stand would at least bring the issue and the different sides very clearly into public view (a big plus for the will of the public) &#8211; and <i>that’s</i> when the serious negotiating would really begin…</p>
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