Still grasping for the best counterargument that doesn’t reinforce the meme. . . one that works on an emotional level, and doesn’t require an a-to-b-to-c explanation of this nasty crap. And growing increasingly worried that voters will return to the default cynicism of criticizing “politics as usual” and just tune out.

HAHAHAHAAHAHA
congress the va and seniors already get NATIONAL HEALTHCARE
THE STOOOOPIT IT BURNS

I think that’s the game plan. And nobody sees the danger of an organized group of well-funded thugs who can thwart the Democratic process.

This is an ugly, ugly moment. And the leadership vacuum at all levels is acute.

Lots of ambiguity and the party get rougher. We say 76% want either health care reform and/or single payer, but who knows? The other side says the same thing for their beliefs. We need a far more inclusive network and we’d better start building it fast-or not. Countries go through bad times and come out the other side i.e. Chile and Pinochet. It’s painful (fatal) for some but time marches on. I guess it depends on how impatient one is.

There is no such thing as an african american. I thought that we were all americans, if you keep disassociating your self from others no one will look at you as equal.

One Big Ass Mistake America…

These are jerks that are seeing themselves sanctioned to do this by their leaders – Rush, Glenn, GOP’er politicians. So they are acting out their childhood bullying fantasies.

OT Ratigan on MSNBC has Limpballs coming up – this could be interesting.

This “white trash” has been abused by the “system” and direct their anger at the government not the cause of their suffering – self corporate interests. They are cynically exploited by these same corporate interests and actually participating in making the situation they deplore – worse, not better.

There is no way to fight ignorance with reason. Never gonna happen.

America has been dumbed down and effectively brainwashed to be malleable by those in power – corporations – not government.

We need a second revolution and lots of education of the public.

“Go back where you come from” is also what a WeSurroundRochester follower of Glenn Beck
said to a primary care physician (with an Eastern European accent)
who spoke up in favor of single-payer at Eric Massa’s event last night. Classy.

Have to ask – did you sleep?

I wrote about this yesterday. There is a big component of racism underlying the rage and anguish on the right:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..ica-Back.-

How in the heck do you educate birthers?

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Great catch Sister Jane now get this video and the background of the “The Gathering of Eagle’s shit” off to Rachel and Olbermann (yes, OLBERMANN). The violence has started particularly in the South and the local media are NOT jumpin’ on the bandwagon down there. We can’t send our folks out to these town halls without a serious strategic plan and since that isn’t gunna help the immediate media game that’s bein’ played here, pushin’ the Teabaggers as racist meme and gettin these fascist thugs on national television over and over and over again is the only way to beat ‘em in the short run.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS NOT A DRILL, THE BASTARDS ARE ALL IN ON THIS ONE!!

at about midnight,i clunked out….jeebs,my nerves are frazzled from allof this

A GOOD READ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..53781.html

Has anyone in the Democratic Party leadership suggested establishing “Free Speech Zones” for the townhalls? My suggestion would be 1000 feet from the entrance to townhall meeting. Anyone disrupting townhalls should then be escorted out or arrested. You know the way the GOP treats protesters. What is good for the goose….

Call the Diane Rehm show with your health care reform questions or comments. They are discussing the issue right now. Give a call. 1800-433-8850
drshow@wamu.org

Have gotten through quite often the last 8 years. Give it a shot.

One of my questions
There has been endless coverage on the MSM of the people who are disrupting the town hall meetings. Endless coverage. This past Tuesday on Hardball Chris Matthews asked “where are the folks on the other side of the Health Care Reform issue” Hello Chris last Thursday there were thousands of Health Care Now people in D.C. at a rally and the MSM did not do one minute of coverage. Rachel Maddow , Countdown, Chris Matthews etc were all too dizzy from showing the same clip of the Obama Beer summit. So much for the liberal media

There was another pro Health Care Reform Rally in D.C. yesterday. Did not receive any MSM coverage. Are the single payer and public option people too well behaved to get the MSM’s attention? Or should they hold these rallies in Iran so that they can get minute to minute coverage?

when they kickinAmbienis like a light switch …ya dont get sleepy,you just …turnoff”g”

This situation is reminiscent of a nightmare where you find yourself in the cab of a runaway train and every time you think you’ve found the brake lever, it mysteriously becomes the throttle, and no matter which way you pull or push, it only serves to increase the trains speed.

The worst part of course is that while we’re feverishly searching for the right lever we come to the realization that we’re approaching some sort of precipice.

Back in the real world, I think we have to realize that our job is not calming the teabaggers down.

They are like caltrops or spikestrips thrown in the road to stop our advance on the real enemy.

We have to find a way around them, because the path though them results in lots of lame horses or flat tires.

Another question to Diane

The “shout outs” have become rather ugly, hanging effigies, threats, racial slurs, persistent interruptions. Can your guest address why these folks who are interrupting these town hall meetings are not escorted out or arrested.

When Code Pink interrupts meetings in D.C. they are arrested or escorted out. They are allowed to hold their signs but not verbally interrupt or they are taken out. Can you address this double standard

Jane/all Just called the district office of Senator Voinovich in Nelsonville Ohio (740-441-6410) Ohio for his schedule in August. Katie at the office did not have much information and let me know that South East Ohio does not have a district Rep at this time. She could not tell me anything about Voinovich’s schedule for August and recommended that I call the Washington office (202-224-3353)

Called the D.C. office and Joe was not very friendly (let me know they have been getting these calls). I let him know that I was a member of group of folks here in Athens who are all respectful single payer advocates and had no plans to interrupt any town hall events or any other events that Senator Voinvovich would be holding. That what we were interested in were thoughtful, respectful dialogue. Joe said that there are no town hall meetings on Voinovich’s schedule. I asked what Voinovich’s stance was on Health Care Reform? These are Joe’s exact words “he opposes both single payer and the public option” I then asked what does he support. Joe answered “the Senator supports increasing competition and lowering cost”
I asked “how does he suggest that happen” Joe “the public should be able to go over state lines to access health care plans”

I then called the Cleveland office (216-522-7095. Spoke with Lucy (she also said that they have been receiving lots of calls) She suggested I talk with our district Rep I let her know that there was no Voinovich district rep in s.e. ohio. She put me through to John who was the most helpful person I spoke with. Let him know we wanted to get with Voinovich directly
Set up a meeting with Voinovich during the recess. Here is Voinovich’s direct scheduler.

Beth Martins
Fax 216-522-7097
email bethmartins@voinovich.senate.gov

Now here is the best part of these calls. When I asked John (who was the most helpful and well informed)what Senator Voinovich’s stance was on health care reform. He said that Voinovich had “concern” about single payer and the public option. When I let John know that Joe in the D.C. office had said that the Senator “opposed” both single payer and the public option. John repeated that the Senator had “concerns”

John and I had a short conversation about the distance between “oppose” and “concerns” He agreed.

I hope folks in Ohio contact Voinovich and slip through the crack between “oppose” and ‘concerns”. Sounds like we can work on Voinovich. Touch his what I believe to be truly compassionate bone in his body.

If folks are interested in any events that he may attend in Ohio during the month of August you need to either contact the district office regularly and they sometimes post his calender under press releases

And the leadership vacuum at all levels is acute.–Jane

That fact about this sorry display of ugly is what I find more infuriating than anything else about it. You’re going to have stupid bozos, and you’re going to have thugs, and you’re going to have big money liars paying for it. We all know that. So where are the voices in leadership positions, the one’s who have access to the biggest microphones and platforms? Sitting pretty and staying out of the crossfire, I guess.

Citizen SanderO:

We don’t need no more stinkin “education of the public” Brother Sander, the public has got this stuff all figured out, thank you very much. Obama’s favorables are at 62% per Kos’s Research 2000 poll and the 38% number who aren’t with ‘im corresponds to the total who don’t believe he’s a citizen or “aren’t sure”. This means that the fascist base in the country tops out at 38% and it ain’t goin anywhere, keep hammerin at the bastards on national media and keep the fuckin’ DEMOCRATS’ feet to the fire. The fascisti are all in on this and if the Democrats don’t cave in, the crypto-Nazis will be fossils by fall.

Thousands of pro-reform people in the street get no coverage, but a hundred or less on the other side get endless MSM coverage.

Fair and balanced…?

Of course a big part of the problem is that many of us on the left aren’t really seeing what we want out of the (various forms of)legislation either, which probably reflects in the satisfaction poll numbers, yet the media just lumps all those “unsatisfied” responses in with the Teabaggers.

Not everyone who is opposed to the efforts thus far on health care are coming from the anti-government right. Many of us want a much stronger public option (read single-payer) than what we’re seeing.

I was in attendance at the Specter/Sebelius thingy. It was apparent to me the teabaggers were much more interested in hating Obama than influencing healthcare reform.

that was me Katie…onUNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE i got on the air

And we thought “ugly Americans” only showed up on foreign shores. These sad, pathetic, angry and ignornant people are a product of the myths and lies promoted by corrupt and cynical politicians for over 50 years with the help of a complicit corporate media. The chickens are coming home to roost.

Hey Norske, glad to see you here.

Just watched The Grapes of Wrath the other night. I especially liked being being reminded that people have had some success in frustrating the efforts of agents provocateur, by being organized.

I’m thinking however, that it won’t be long before we’re faced with phony ‘riots’ which of course are nothing but an excuse for repression.

I’m hoping I’m wrong, but a person can’t not know what they know.

You’re right, this is not a drill.

I have said many times here that this is all about racism. These wingnuts don’t understand anything about the health care plans but they surely do hate Obama. It’s so easy for them to slip from “he doesn’t look like me” to “he doesn’t think like me” to “he’s out to get me.” Simple minded.

It’s only a matter of time until somebody gets hurt…or worse. This is bad.

my message
infections and virus pass from the insured to the uninsured in a NON PARTISAN WAY

Would be funny if the next time the rethug gang approaches the mics at capital hill they get drowned out by protesters chanting just say yes.

Doggett did something similar yesterday. His staff had engaged local police who courteouly removed disrupter. Things seem to have gone OK…but his action was prevention, also. As I understand the coverage.

you go girl…excellent

…are a product of the myths and lies promoted by corrupt and cynical politicians for over 50 years with the help of a complicit corporate media. The chickens are coming home to roost.

I couldn’t agree more. But how do we not just counter it, but work to undo the damage and prevent future generations from suffering the same ignorance and anger?

We obviously shouldn’t sink to their level and try to out-shout them. But how do we create an environment where thoughtfulness, introspection and reflection are considered more appropriate than knee-jerk outrage?

Citizen Bluetoe2:

These skanky-assed chickens have been roostin’ and breedin’ since 1981 when Reagan fed ‘em steroids in their corn meal…this is the final battle, this isn’t about healthcare, this is about usin’ the very short minority to intimidate the liberals and the “centerists”, if you need a blue print of how it works look up the Brown Shirts in Germany 1930-33.

Mark my words, we’re going to learn all over again that the police never show up until the wrong side has had time to use their ax handles and baseball bats, at which time they arrest the injured as ‘troublemakers’.

The history is clear, and though most have forgotten it, we’ve been this way before.

they twisted my words to imply i meant universal insurance coverage,which i did NOT say

James Bancroft, who told Dodd to kill himself, probably is also one of those lying at the top of his lungs that Dems suppport euthenasia. Seems strange to me but then, they all seem strange to me.

If these people, regardless of what side they support, would read every single page of every single proposed bill, they’d be able to ask intelligent questions but that might be too difficult for them. There are parts of each bill that I agree with and there are parts I don’t agree with but at least I’ve read them and can ask questions based on my own knowledge, not talking points handed to me.

what if

( you can add to the list)

only the rich got the polio vaccine
got small pox vaccinations…………………

Agree but don’t you agree that these people are a product of the myths promoted touting the exceptionalism of all things U.S.? They have been indoctrinated since birth that the U.S. is perfect, the shining light on the hill, who would want to change that? The U.S. is built on myths and lies, the rags to riches, the pull yourself up by the bootstraps, the individual against the world, the U.S. is always number 1. Facts and reality cannot impinge on the myths and lies that have been hardwired into the minds of poorly or undereducated people.

its human nature to want to be on the winning team,even if your just a loundmouth fan in the stands

OT
Mel Martinez, Fla, is resigning. Since Crist is running for the seat I guess he can just appoint himself. Neat and tidy.

These videos that show crazy white racists pretending to give a damn about health care may have some beneficial effect — by showing opposition to reform as a crazy white racist plot — but if I were a Democratic MOC attempting to conduct a healthcare forum, I’d leave ‘em exactly where CTBlogger captures them — outside.

Venues for public meetings should prominently post “Shout & You’re Out” signs & not allow signs or other weapons into the meetings. And bouncers should oust anybody who can’t behave in a civil manner. Enough is enough.

The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

Has a reason been stated? Is something ugly on the horizon or is he simply quitting to get in on some of that lobbying cash?

Man, ACORN must be like Santa, Jesus, Bill Gates, and the NSA all rolled into one. They’re everywhere! (And they fund everything, apparently, along with Soros.)

Speaking as an Ohio resident for the past 3 1/2 decades, I commend you and thank you for your tenacity. The depressing truth is that Voinovich, throughout his long history in OH politics, has never, to my knowledge, shown any leadership unless you count voting repeatedly and with steadfast resolve NOT to spend taxpayer money for ANYTHING.

Oh, wait. There was one exception. I do believe he did strongly support the building of new prisons in the state, many of the contracts for which went to his brother’s bidness partners.

Sen. V. has a long, long history as a follower. A seat-warmer. Nothing more. I do not wish him ill, but I do look forward to his retirement on his nice fat government-sponsored paycheck. Would that he had shown more compassion and leadership during his many years of blatant, unabashed servitude for the interests of the powerful and moneyed of our nation.

Such a nice, soft-spoken man? So?? So what! Mr. V. totally fails my “Pretty is as pretty does” smell-test. Ohio needs to elect another like Sherrod Brown when the ever-so-comfortable Sen. V. retires.

Where is law enforcement? Why aren’t these people hauled off? These thugs are threatening United States Congressman. Why do the republics get away with whatever the hell they want? WHY?!?

Citizen NF:

“These skanky-assed chickens…”

This comment is, I assume, in no way intended to disparage actual real skanks…or chickens, for that matter.

No reason given yet.

Where is the Secret Service? Some of the signs contain veiled (and not so veiled) threats to the president. I’m certainly not an expert in these matters, but I’m pretty sure that making such threats is like…ya know…a crime.

Ah. Seems like ‘06 again. Only this time the whole nation is on the receiving end. Bancroft reminds me one of one of those guys who was holding a cup a beer and shouted “communists” at Lamont supporters, including Lamont himself (who seemed and I hoped was too busy to notice at the time).

Spencer has a fresh post on the front page for our perusal. If you’re weary of health care subject, you might want to try this: “Beitullah Mehsud’s Death Is Not Enough”

Excellent. I get the DR show tape-delayed where I’m at. I’ll flip on the radio and check it out.

Always worth a shot. Go through the crack of conscience. Have seen him expose this part of himself several times especially during the Bolton hearings. He voted for the clunker legislation and voted for the extra funding, he voted for Sotomayor. Worth the shot. Contact his office…let’s go get him

Citizen Bluetoe2:

Yes…that’s exactly why more “education” of the public is not necessary or gunna work in the short run given that a substantial majority does NOT agree with these lunatics.

Exactly. Why do the capitol police pull the Code Pinkers out when they disrupt (they can hold their signs) yet we are witnessing the “screamers” sit up in front, interrupt, keep interrupting and no one hauls them out?

Selective enforcement going on. The police should Haul their asses out after they interrupt. Explain that they can sit their with their signs but not verbally interrupt.

Education will not work because they only believe what people like Limpballs tell them. Their level of stupidity is astonishing. Their willingingness to follow each other off the end of a cliff is also very shocking.

I always stay calm repeat what they have said and ask if I have it right? Then repeat what I have said and ask them what they have heard. I take the time to make sure I have heard what they have said or repeat back what I have heard (often take notes) and then ask them to explain.

don’t let them get away with spinning your words and do not spin theirs

Agree but don’t you agree that these people are a product of the myths promoted touting the exceptionalism of all things U.S.? They have been indoctrinated since birth that the U.S. is perfect, the shining light on the hill, who would want to change that?

Of course that’s true, but understand that what the thugs are attacking is your right to peacful assembly and to come together with other individuals to collectively express, promote, pursue and defend common interests.

The thugs are attacking your constitutional rights.

When you’re under physical attack it’s no time to explain to your attackers that they’ve been lied to, and that they are confused because they’ve been misled.

Keep it up. Talk of the Nation may be covering this topic today. They post their shows at 2;oo p.m. Their screeners often have agendas. Let them re do your question or comment to their specifications (high control on that program) then get on and ask what you want to ask or say.

talk@npr.org
1-800- 989-talk

Thanks for the poke in the ribs! So Sen. V. voted for Sotomayor?! Well well. We’re still mired in boxes after our continuing move, and still haven’t sold our old house (translation: GACK! and scrambling, peddling as fast as we can). So we’re really leaning on the Lake Pups far more than comfy. Will try to climb back in harness ASAP. Our new home: Oberlin. Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Different climate from almost anywhere. We’re lovin’ being in the majority for a change. *G*

Was sitting at dinner t’other eve near a well-heeled lady, and she blurted out all of a sudden to anyone-and-everyone-in-particular, “Well! I think they ought to tax the rich to provide the health care for the poor. PERIOD!”

we’re lovin’ it….

Per BooMan, Bob Inglis (R-SC04) got shouted down by teabaggers at his Town Hall last night — BooMan has the YouTube in the comments on his FP diary about the Town Halls.

I’ve been watching the Town Hall events list. I noticed that Patty McHenry (R-NC10) had a Town Hall scheduled at several places in his district. Just wondering if the chickens came home to roost for him too.

Sen. V. has a long, long history as a follower. A seat-warmer. Nothing more.

Well stated.

Your whole post captures the essence (if there is any) of the man and his life in public office.

“Seat warmer” says it all; not an original thought or leadership moment out of him in all the years he’s been around.

Thanks much for the tips. That’s part of my problem getting back to being more involved. I hate not having details straight. It’s that nasty pride gremlin on my shoulder – HATES to be wrong on anything. heh.

You’re too kind. Let’s join hands and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Rinse and repeat. ;->

Gawsh I luvs u guys!?!

(((JANE))) You are a gift to the world, young lady! *blush*

JH,

If you’re still monitoring, what is up with Accountability Now these days? I have a feeling it will be needed/wanted more than ever, pending the outcome of the healthcare debate and final voting.

James Bancroft – Gathering of Eagles – (860) 989-7219

No privacy breach here – this number is available all over wingnut forums.

Play nice.

Man, I guess I’m stuck in and endless non-belief loop; don’t these freaks realize that so many of the things they take for granted (Medicare, Soc. Security, hell, the effing public library!)are basically programs that benefit society at large and funded through tax dollars.

Sorry,’baggers, the U.S. is already “socialist”.

Had to reset my car radio’s channels this morning and in the process found that Christian radio in our community is having a talk show/phone in thing on “Socialized Medicine.” Isn’t that illegal?

Also, in this thread’s lead I see that the astro turfers got angry because of the cameras. Keep taking pictures because it takes away their cover and makes a record of who they are and what they do and say, if you have a sound recorder on that camera.

The Secret Service is reporting an increasing number of threats.

I’m not sure I see where a radio station cannot discuss whatever they want…?

Truthout had a great piece a day or so back “Bush’s conspiracy to riot.” As far as selective enforcement goes regarding protestors, I’m reminded of the scene in HBOs Recount where the cop let’s the operatives in after he says, “We’re not going to do anything. Look at us.”

i’m probably doing this wrong. i’m new here.

when company goons in the 20’s & 30’s tried to prevent union workers from organizing, demonstrating and striking the unions weren’t affraid to fight back with bricks, bottles, bats and whatever was at hand. It was all out war. Aside from the leftist and union press any attempt by the workers to defend their rights were attached by the conventional press of the day. Physical confrontation with the baggers and birthers would be counter productive and only serve the interests of the Republicans and the status quo corporatists. The corporate media would have a field day.

” go back where you come from.”

Excuse me, asshat, but he was here before you were. His people were some of the very first to arrive, back when your people were still living in mud and wattle huts on some lord’s domain.

So what do you advise? Perhaps we could all join hands and sing “Kumbaya” or “We Shall Overcome”!

Physical confrontation with the baggers and birthers would be counter productive and only serve the interests of the Republicans and the status quo corporatists. The corporate media would have a field day.

Of course, you’re right.

My intent is not to exhort ‘our side’ to meet violence with violence, it is to point out that the teabaggers do not offer an opportunity for dialogue, but they do surface for us, clear evidence that progressives are now paying the price for complacency in the face of decades of deliberately cultivated ignorance.

I fear that we’re about to learn that many of those we disparaged as ‘Good Germans‘ in the Nazi era were not exclusively weak-willed people who sheepishly followed orders, many were people who did everything they could to stay the hell out of the way of the mobs.

The baggers only think their backs are against the wall, and that’s because they’re being told that it’s so by the propagandists. We, on the other hand, have got to understand that it’s very important to recognize when our backs are really against the wall, which is problematic because for most of our lives, we’ve never experienced a truly intransigent enemy, and the end of negotiations.

As for the corporate media, they’re already having a field day, and I fear it will only get worse.

I guess I’m just mean, but I have lived quite a while and know this type of imbecile (James Bancroft). He is BIG, so thinks he can bully everyone else. What I would do if I were there is ask him what size bra he wears? (Jesus! His boobs are bigger than mine! And if someone wants to help him, tell him to buy a larger shirt size — those tight ones REALLY make him look bad.)

He’d better watch it — at his age, and his overweightness, it’s gonna be fatal heart attack time real soon.

I agree. What we need to do is assemble a group in DC that will be too large to be ignored.

Yes.

Let’s see the teabaggers shout down 2 or 3 million people.

Let’s see the MSM deliberately ignore 2 or 3 million people.

Let’s see Mike Ross lie to defend his position to 2 or 3 million people

why not go after him anyway. That means at least we tried. I really think there is a crack to walk through

My oldest daughter received a full scholarship at Oberlin. (she is 31) Studied environmental science with David Orr great Professor

.http://www.oberlin.edu/envs/faculty_pages/orr.htm

She loved every minute…and they worked with us all the way.

I know very little about music but whenever I would visit I would sit outside the doors of students practicing at the Music conservatory and listen…and be transported and transformed

Quality school, nice town, great history

Wow! I was going to respond to your #80 anyway, but then tripped over your #81. heh. CONGRATS to you and your daughter. Yes, I and hubby cut our academic teeth on Orr, via his writings. Small world. And Yes, this is a terrific place to live. p.s., shhhh, we also get to audit classes if there’s room. oldster academic junkie’s dream!

Re: #80. I don’t think any of us intends to give mr. v. a bye. Gnawing around the edges of his itty bitty conscience sounds just fine for starters. Will see what we can do. ;->

There is no such thing as an african american

Which I guess means there is no such thing as an irish american. So why the hell do we celebrate St. Patrick’s Day? And I am going to miss Oktoberfest. and the Scottish Highland Games. How many white people get indignant if you ask where their ancestors come from? Do they get all huffy and insist on their Americanism? Or just say ‘German and Irish mostly but with a dash of Cherokee’

And I hope the hell the O in Greg’s name is a middle initial and not some racial dog-whistling signaling that he may be from the Emerald Isle. Cause by Greg’s logic we should be charging everyone wearing a “Kiss me! I’m Irish!” pin with sedition.

Plus it is not blacks that instituted racial laws on the One Drop of Blood theory. Or put the Whites Only signs up.

Gathering of Eagles disrupted peaceful protests of Cheney and Bush appearances at the US Military Academy in the past using similar tactics. They set up a competing soundstage to the peaceful protesters, booed Col. Ann Wright, threatened Gold Star parents, harassed marchers (including the elderly and children) and generally acted like an outlaw gang. They later were feted by George W. Bush in Washington DC and apparently continute their Anti-American mob antics with the encouragement of their wealthy enablers.