Comments on: David H. Koch’s Americans For Prosperity: Health Care Bill Is “The Final Solution” http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/ Politics for liberal newsgeeks Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:33:20 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: PJEvans http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36727 PJEvans Sat, 08 Aug 2009 01:30:54 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36727 <blockquote><p>go to Costco or Canada or Mexico, knowing that you may be risking contaminated meds</p></blockquote> <p>Probably not from any of those places, although I’d prefer Canada to Mexico as a source, simply because it’s safer to go there.</p>

go to Costco or Canada or Mexico, knowing that you may be risking contaminated meds

Probably not from any of those places, although I’d prefer Canada to Mexico as a source, simply because it’s safer to go there.

]]> By: marchan1940 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36518 marchan1940 Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:12:05 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36518 <p>Thanks for sharing that. Very moving. </p> <p>By the way, the AARP web site has a one page health care legislation myths item on the left side of their home page that addresses some of the distortions and lies that are being bandied about. </p> <p>AARP probably was for Medicare D because most seniors have one or more chronic conditions that require high cost medications. I don’t know the details or even the outlines of their support and the general public or legislative debate prior to passage, don’t know if they sought to mandate negotiated drug rates then, I think know that they’ve sought to get that included this time and that they’ve fought the long protected patents on new bionutrition products (which I think Scarecrow recently reported they lost on). I can tell you that I have Medicare D with extra help, because of my very low income, so my generics cost me $2.40 and brand names cost me $6. I don’t know how folks with limited incomes can afford any medications without various forms of “extra help” If you’re not on that kind of help, then by all means go to Costco or Canada or Mexico, knowing that you may be risking contaminated meds. On the other hand, if you’re really, really poor, you can choose between wholesome food and meds, or rent and meds, or, or, or, under the present grossly unregulated realities of “free market” atrocities.</p> <p>Beyond that, I’m in despair over the recent disclosures and total sell outs by the president and congress. </p> <p>Blessings to all, </p> <p>I</p> Thanks for sharing that. Very moving.

By the way, the AARP web site has a one page health care legislation myths item on the left side of their home page that addresses some of the distortions and lies that are being bandied about.

AARP probably was for Medicare D because most seniors have one or more chronic conditions that require high cost medications. I don’t know the details or even the outlines of their support and the general public or legislative debate prior to passage, don’t know if they sought to mandate negotiated drug rates then, I think know that they’ve sought to get that included this time and that they’ve fought the long protected patents on new bionutrition products (which I think Scarecrow recently reported they lost on). I can tell you that I have Medicare D with extra help, because of my very low income, so my generics cost me $2.40 and brand names cost me $6. I don’t know how folks with limited incomes can afford any medications without various forms of “extra help” If you’re not on that kind of help, then by all means go to Costco or Canada or Mexico, knowing that you may be risking contaminated meds. On the other hand, if you’re really, really poor, you can choose between wholesome food and meds, or rent and meds, or, or, or, under the present grossly unregulated realities of “free market” atrocities.

Beyond that, I’m in despair over the recent disclosures and total sell outs by the president and congress.

Blessings to all,

I

]]> By: whyknot http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36444 whyknot Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:26:21 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36444 <p>exactly duck - you need a powerful fear msg to get people working against their own best interests, like for instance improved health care choices and real freedom of speech. these crazy protesting oldies are not setting a good example for the grandkids.</p> exactly duck – you need a powerful fear msg to get people working against their own best interests, like for instance improved health care choices and real freedom of speech. these crazy protesting oldies are not setting a good example for the grandkids.

]]> By: BargainCountertenor http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36438 BargainCountertenor Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:22:17 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36438 <p>If you hang around or work on the edges of health care, you learn very quickly that there are definitely things worse than dying.</p> If you hang around or work on the edges of health care, you learn very quickly that there are definitely things worse than dying.

]]> By: kevsters http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36421 kevsters Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:06:44 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36421 <p>Here is a clip of Chris Matthews going after a Freedomworks’ spokesperson and calling him a fraud.</p> <p>Pretty good stuff.</p> <p><a href="http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2429" rel="nofollow">http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2429</a></p> Here is a clip of Chris Matthews going after a Freedomworks’ spokesperson and calling him a fraud.

Pretty good stuff.

http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2429

]]> By: Jane Hamsher http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36404 Jane Hamsher Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:53:05 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36404 <p>yes</p> yes

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36403 ThingsComeUndone Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:51:59 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36403 <p>Well if you repeat a lie often enough and nobody challenges its then yes you can brain wash people.<br /> We need the Fairness Doctrine back that and some Hate Speech laws in the Media. I want Lou Dobbs, Glen and Rush to argue that what they say is not hate speech and that Nobody is harmed because of what they say.<br /> Plus they never threatened anyone’s life.</p> Well if you repeat a lie often enough and nobody challenges its then yes you can brain wash people.
We need the Fairness Doctrine back that and some Hate Speech laws in the Media. I want Lou Dobbs, Glen and Rush to argue that what they say is not hate speech and that Nobody is harmed because of what they say.
Plus they never threatened anyone’s life.

]]> By: garlanddegreeff http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36402 garlanddegreeff Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:51:52 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36402 <p>From: <a href="http://crush.typepad.com" rel="nofollow">http://crush.typepad.com</a> (emasculation-blues);<br /><a href="http://apocalypse-blues.typepad.com/:" rel="nofollow">http://apocalypse-blues.typepad.com/:</a><br /> Ray backed away from his dad’s hospital. His throat had started to get scratchy. He got into his car and drove down the street to the Medicine Shoppe and bought Theraflu. He got hot water at the hospital’s cafeteria and gulped the medicine down. He knew the symptoms arising just as he entered the hospital were no coincidence. His dad was dying and he didn’t want to confront that but had to say good-bye to the old man. He’d gotten sick all his life when he didn’t want to do something—like the time his throat hurt when it was time for Boy Scout’s one-week campout. His old man had volunteered to drive him to the camp site 60 miles away as son as his throat was better—no pressure, just his dad’s good nature. But Ray didn’t want to be away from his parents that long at age 11 with all those strange kids. He was only 11 and had had only one good friend each period of his life. He wasn’t a mixer, thought he could do his own share of bullying. He was happiest just listening to the radio “Mr. Music” was what they called him. He could name a top 40 song after 2 notes.<br /> He stuck to himself, making his own way—much like his dad, who also was withdrawn and had few close friends –probably only his brothers, Ray’s uncles. His dad stayed by him self at the Farmer’s Elevator whre they made fed for cattle. He drove trucks and shoveled vitamins into mixers from 7 am to 5:30 pm each day with half an hour for lunch.<br /> Still, when Ray started to want spending money, his dad wouldn’t give it to him. Ray got a morning paperroute, 6 am, back at 7. Eggs and bacon with lots of salt. Wheaties with a half-inch of sugar. His mother and father were hardworkers. In bad weather, he’d drive Ray through the driving rain or plow through snow drifts before heading to his 7 am job. Ray didn’t have to ask.<br /> Now Ray had to see that gentle, sweet man on his death bed. Ray walked in. His dad raise his only good arm, the left, and raised his left eyebrow and curled the left corner of his mouth. Typical dad. Ray couldn’t tell if he knew he was dying or didn’t. Ray squeezed the oldman’s fingers. His dad curled the left half of his mouth.<br /> “Dad. How are ya?” His father’s stroke had left him paralyzed on the right side and unable to talk. “You’re fine, you old fart!” Ray said. “This will keep you off the streets, outta trouble! I won’t have to arrest you!” His dad’s eyes brightened. Simple jokes for a simple man. That’s all it took. When his dad raised his left arm up and down to show Ray that he was mobile—perhaps to show him that he could rehab his way out of this mess. “Fuck” Ray thought. “I bet no one’s told him that he’s gonna die in a few days. Assholes.” A quick visit with the doctor and his brothers confirmed his suspicion.<br /> He tok his dad’s head in his hands and said “Dad, I want you to know that we love you and we appreciate your bustin your gut for us, to give us the best possible lives. But I want you to know that your very , very, sick. You’ve had a major stroke–that’s why you can’t move or talk. I just wanted you to know” His father’s eyes dimmed, some of the glow was gone. Ray had been right, the old man thought he could rehab his way out if it. Well, now he could get his thoughts together, say his prayers and –perhaps—relax, knowing that worldly struggles were over, and he could see his wife again.<br /> Ray kissed him on the forehead and walked out of the room. He hadn’t been able to say “You’ve only got 4 days to live” but he felt his dad’s death may have more dignity now at least. “He was laying like a fish on a dock, gasping for air,” Ray thought. “My dad—the sweetest guy in the world—doesn’t deserve that” Ray would have killed his dad that same day, but for the anti-euthanasia laws. His living will said “no extraordinary measures” So all they could do was keep a sugar-salt solution in his arm until he starved to death or his congested heart gave out or his clogged arteries in his neck completed the stroke. “Dad loved food” Ray thought. He remembered his dad’s tales of eating 5 eggs and sausages at his grandma’s table. And eating those same eggs and bacon and Wheaties at his wives table. Now his dad would die with less dignity thatn a dog in a field. A farmer would shoot a wounded dying dog right there in the field. But his dad had to starve to death.</p> From: http://crush.typepad.com (emasculation-blues);
http://apocalypse-blues.typepad.com/:
Ray backed away from his dad’s hospital. His throat had started to get scratchy. He got into his car and drove down the street to the Medicine Shoppe and bought Theraflu. He got hot water at the hospital’s cafeteria and gulped the medicine down. He knew the symptoms arising just as he entered the hospital were no coincidence. His dad was dying and he didn’t want to confront that but had to say good-bye to the old man. He’d gotten sick all his life when he didn’t want to do something—like the time his throat hurt when it was time for Boy Scout’s one-week campout. His old man had volunteered to drive him to the camp site 60 miles away as son as his throat was better—no pressure, just his dad’s good nature. But Ray didn’t want to be away from his parents that long at age 11 with all those strange kids. He was only 11 and had had only one good friend each period of his life. He wasn’t a mixer, thought he could do his own share of bullying. He was happiest just listening to the radio “Mr. Music” was what they called him. He could name a top 40 song after 2 notes.
He stuck to himself, making his own way—much like his dad, who also was withdrawn and had few close friends –probably only his brothers, Ray’s uncles. His dad stayed by him self at the Farmer’s Elevator whre they made fed for cattle. He drove trucks and shoveled vitamins into mixers from 7 am to 5:30 pm each day with half an hour for lunch.
Still, when Ray started to want spending money, his dad wouldn’t give it to him. Ray got a morning paperroute, 6 am, back at 7. Eggs and bacon with lots of salt. Wheaties with a half-inch of sugar. His mother and father were hardworkers. In bad weather, he’d drive Ray through the driving rain or plow through snow drifts before heading to his 7 am job. Ray didn’t have to ask.
Now Ray had to see that gentle, sweet man on his death bed. Ray walked in. His dad raise his only good arm, the left, and raised his left eyebrow and curled the left corner of his mouth. Typical dad. Ray couldn’t tell if he knew he was dying or didn’t. Ray squeezed the oldman’s fingers. His dad curled the left half of his mouth.
“Dad. How are ya?” His father’s stroke had left him paralyzed on the right side and unable to talk. “You’re fine, you old fart!” Ray said. “This will keep you off the streets, outta trouble! I won’t have to arrest you!” His dad’s eyes brightened. Simple jokes for a simple man. That’s all it took. When his dad raised his left arm up and down to show Ray that he was mobile—perhaps to show him that he could rehab his way out of this mess. “Fuck” Ray thought. “I bet no one’s told him that he’s gonna die in a few days. Assholes.” A quick visit with the doctor and his brothers confirmed his suspicion.
He tok his dad’s head in his hands and said “Dad, I want you to know that we love you and we appreciate your bustin your gut for us, to give us the best possible lives. But I want you to know that your very , very, sick. You’ve had a major stroke–that’s why you can’t move or talk. I just wanted you to know” His father’s eyes dimmed, some of the glow was gone. Ray had been right, the old man thought he could rehab his way out if it. Well, now he could get his thoughts together, say his prayers and –perhaps—relax, knowing that worldly struggles were over, and he could see his wife again.
Ray kissed him on the forehead and walked out of the room. He hadn’t been able to say “You’ve only got 4 days to live” but he felt his dad’s death may have more dignity now at least. “He was laying like a fish on a dock, gasping for air,” Ray thought. “My dad—the sweetest guy in the world—doesn’t deserve that” Ray would have killed his dad that same day, but for the anti-euthanasia laws. His living will said “no extraordinary measures” So all they could do was keep a sugar-salt solution in his arm until he starved to death or his congested heart gave out or his clogged arteries in his neck completed the stroke. “Dad loved food” Ray thought. He remembered his dad’s tales of eating 5 eggs and sausages at his grandma’s table. And eating those same eggs and bacon and Wheaties at his wives table. Now his dad would die with less dignity thatn a dog in a field. A farmer would shoot a wounded dying dog right there in the field. But his dad had to starve to death.

]]> By: Ann in AZ http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36399 Ann in AZ Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:50:47 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36399 <p>I’m very much in sympathy because I was in a similar position in 2003. Shortly after I applied for disability due to COPD, I had a heart condition that I thought was just an upper respiratory infection (there was no pain; my symptoms were just shortness of breath and flu-like symptoms) but a trip to the emergency room proved otherwise. The doctors would not let me out of the hospital until I had a quadruple heart bypass. I had no insurance at the time, so thank goodness for ACCCHS, which I filled out paperwork for. They paid the entire bill; it was over $200K for the hospital alone. That was in Feb/Mar. In May I started receiving checks from disability; the amount that I was approved for was too high to continue on ACCCHS (over income–ugh), and I also had the 2 year wait. ACCCHS said that they could only help me again if I ended up with a horrendous hospital bill again, which I did, and ended up on ACCCHS again for an additional 6 months. I can’t remember how I got thru the entire 2 years, but I will guarantee that ACCCHS saved my life. Good luck to you, Katymine. You’ll be in our thoughts and prayers.</p> I’m very much in sympathy because I was in a similar position in 2003. Shortly after I applied for disability due to COPD, I had a heart condition that I thought was just an upper respiratory infection (there was no pain; my symptoms were just shortness of breath and flu-like symptoms) but a trip to the emergency room proved otherwise. The doctors would not let me out of the hospital until I had a quadruple heart bypass. I had no insurance at the time, so thank goodness for ACCCHS, which I filled out paperwork for. They paid the entire bill; it was over $200K for the hospital alone. That was in Feb/Mar. In May I started receiving checks from disability; the amount that I was approved for was too high to continue on ACCCHS (over income–ugh), and I also had the 2 year wait. ACCCHS said that they could only help me again if I ended up with a horrendous hospital bill again, which I did, and ended up on ACCCHS again for an additional 6 months. I can’t remember how I got thru the entire 2 years, but I will guarantee that ACCCHS saved my life. Good luck to you, Katymine. You’ll be in our thoughts and prayers.

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36398 ThingsComeUndone Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:49:19 +0000 http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/07/david-h-kochs-americans-for-prosperity-health-care-bill-is-the-final-solution/#comment-36398 <p>Crist is not on the Crazy like the other GOPers I think he might want to deal. This is where Rahm should step in.</p> Crist is not on the Crazy like the other GOPers I think he might want to deal. This is where Rahm should step in.

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