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The first question this raises is whether the supposedly politically savvy Messina and Emanuel thought they could actually get away with playing Billy Tauzin, of all people. This is too cute by far, and it was inevitable that Tauzin was going to go public with the deal if he thought they were going to renege.
Where does that leave the other four committee chairs? If the House wasn’t bound by this industry deal, presumably the Senate HELP committee wasn’t either. Could it explain why so much focus has been on Baucus’s committee, why he’s been able to drag this out, miss deadline after deadline, continue to follow the fool’s errand of a "bipartisan" deal? Is Tauzin right in saying that this is "up to the White House and Senator Baucus"? As Jed pointed out, the ability of the government to negotiate drug prices is critical to actually cutting costs.
But it’s got to lead to a larger question–how much of this has the White House turned over to Baucus and industry? It’s a question that Democrats in the House, particularly, have.
As she says, Jim Messina is a former Max Baucus staffer. It’s great that the bill was hamstrung from the start in a way the bank bailout never was. It had to be "deficit neutral" – then everyone’s hands were tied when it came to implementing cost-cutting provisions. We just didn’t know it. Nobody told the House because nobody cares. They’ll get the shit beaten out of them to accept what comes out of the Senate anyway.
The White House played host today to the 6 "bipartisan" Senators currently writing the bill, who represent 3% of the country’s population. None of them share the beliefs of the 76% of the country that want a public option. The White House refused to say today whether the President would veto a bill that didn’t have a public option.
The Senate will pass a bill with co-ops. The Blue Dogs will go for Round 2 of gutting the House bill when they return in September. Everybody will agree to accept co-ops in conference, and unless there are 40 progressive members of the House willing to hold the line more firmly when they let the Blue Dogs roll them last week, it’s bye-bye public plan.
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AAAAAAAAAAA!!!
I just want to scream (so I did)
Just donated,sharpening my hay fork
And why is Obama falling in the polls?
This is why.
In between now and conference, what else can be done to head this off? In my mind, it’s making sure Baucus can’t get a deal out of Grassley, which doesn’t seem likely anyway.
i have an old pickup truck,i can bring mebbe 6 people to DeeCee
They’ll get the shit beaten out of them to accept what comes out of the Senate anyway.
Basically what I predicted two months ago, and I thought I was being whiny and pissy even at the time.
To quote McGyver, I hate it when I’m right.
Are we going to discuss the possibility and needed tactics.. that we may very well need to pivot and try our best to kill all of this?
Of the potential bills on the table…I have no idea what I am for anymore.
re all the hc uproar. i haven’t commented much and this is the reason why.
whatever comes out of congress, i WILL NOT buy insurance of ANY KIND. i’ve been ripped off by that before and my momma din’t raise no foooo.
so to speak.
if it involves buying into anything, i will be MIA. it will not happen that i give any of my (now non-existent) money to some promisery note.
i want to go to a clinic if i’m sick, give them a $25 to $50 payment for diagnosis and meds. period. if it’s something huge like cancer, i would be willing to pay more, but NEVER into the thousands or hundreds of thous’s. that is either covered by the government who wants and takes a solid third of my yearly income or i will die. most presumably the later.
i will NOT participate in ANY “insurance” scams, ever, no matter WHO does the “underwriting” or whatever.
nuff said.
pax
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.c…..age002.jpg
And BTW, sorta ot but it IS on the healthcare issue. I have my report of the Denver Astroturf post up.
It’s cross posted over at the Great Orange Satan, with a pitch for bucks since FDL got funding spiked.
OT No problems at the Degette, Polis, Pelosi event in Denver this afternoon but it looks like things got out of hand in Tampa
http://www.tampabay.com/news/p…..025529.ece
I feel similarly. I have absolutely no faith that the government will enforce whatever rules it passes concerning pre-existing conditions, etc. I’ve seen how that’s worked out with no-fault auto insurance, and the federal government’s recent performance in regards to regulating other financial industries doesn’t fill me with optimism, either. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me dozens of times, shame on me.
Sadly, I think Jane is exactly right.
To add, not between now in conference, but in addition to the conference strategy…
She probably is and I hate that it’s true.
The thing is, is if it comes down to a shit bill with a purchase mandate, progressives MUST vote it down, and it will make life shitty for any of the rest of the alleged Dem agenda.
[making martini now - good god, what a day this has been. First wingnuts downtown and now this. Bleh.]
Here’s a report on the Tampa TH meeting this evening with Cathy Castor. It’s written by Adam Smith, the neocon political editor of the SP Times.
Hate to say it, but Hillary would have gotten us better healthcare.
and here we thought the DLC was dead. Not so fast… apparently it’s alive and well and living in Obama’s shirt pocket…
Business Week is already crowing that the healthcare industry has already won.
To paraphrase
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in DC,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength on the air, we shall defend our Rights, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender
We shall march on DC.
When do we start?
Actually, just as clarificaiton, Bingaman of NM wrote the “coverage” portion of the Senate HELP committee bill and is strongly in favor of a public option.
But me senses that he was just a plant on the gang of 6 to try to make it look balanced… I spoke to his healthcare legislative aide a couple of weeks ago and he tried to interject the public option idea often… but of course, as planned, he was clearly over-riden.
It doesn’t help that he’s a rather understated Senator and not one to seek the limelight to call out the corruption.
Sometimes I think these guys are way more concerned about maintaining the genteel manner in the senate than doing their constituent’s wishes.
We should just throw all the bastards out.
in your dreams.
“hil” has NEVER gotten anything so big re ANYTHING.
she is a scepter.
Agreed. And I am mixing a cocktail too.
It will be a Pyhrric Victory
Because business can bend over and kiss China’s ass,
Including wall St, Shanghai will be where the Finance Industry goes.
With the inevitable fall is US wages, good luck keeping the empire alive.
Great…we’re gonna get sold yet another bill of goods because we can’t hurt the Republicans precious feelings (even though they had no problem beating the crap out of the Democrats when they had the majority).
Terhune and Epstein are not exactly crowing… seems they are reporting the facts rather solemnly… I have a Seminal post about their article with a link…
It’s about the embedded consultant to Congressional healthcare reform… ta da….!
United Healthcare to the rescue… fucking unbelievable and must read.
President Obama
The White House played host today to the 6 “bipartisan” Senators currently writing the bill, who represent 3% of the country’s population. None of them share the beliefs of the 76% of the country that want a public option. The White House refused to say today whether the President would veto a bill that didn’t have a public option.
The Senate will pass a bill with co-ops. The Blue Dogs will go for Round 2 of gutting the House bill when they return in September. Everybody will agree to accept co-ops in conference, and unless there are 40 progressive members of the House willing to hold the line more firmly when they let the Blue Dogs roll them last week, it’s bye-bye public plan.
And this will be your legacy:
It will be a Pyhrric Victory. Because business can bend over and kiss China’s ass,Including wall St. Shanghai will be where the Finance Industry goes. With the inevitable fall is US wages, good luck keeping the empire alive
How’s it going to be the first President to preside over the first country to fall from first world to third world?
Is *this* the change we can believe in?
I just reported and you just decided.
Yep, the healthcare industry will win a bankrupt nation.
No, she wouldn’t have. We’d be facing the same battle, but with an even more energized wingnut base who would come to the party hating Clinton more than they hate Obama, if that’s possible. All the Clinton crap from the 90s would be trotted out by the wingnut blogs as foundation and it would just get worse from there. Hell, the Big Dog does a good deed in North Korea and they were already crucifying him before the plane landed in the US.
It would have been “HillaryCare II: The Resurrection” and it would have been Ugly.
Look, I’ll admit your scenario is plausible. But isn’t it also possible that the White House will try to get the public plan in at conference? I agree there’s a very real risk that we might lose this one, but at the same time, do we really gain anything by condemning Obama for something he hasn’t done yet? We should push hard, but let’s take things as they come, not catastrophize and predict the worst before it happens.
And as for the whip project, I have to wonder if this is the best way to be focusing our energies. Not to be a downer, but if only fifteen reps have signed on to date after a month and a half, I can’t see us picking up 25 more in the next month. Especially since no Congressperson is going to want to be number 40. I think probably our best bet is focusing on the White House to insure firm pressure for a public plan from their end.
You don’t remember 1993 and 1994, do you? She and Bill took a year and a half to get this far and their own compromise bill — which was already seriously watered down from what it was — got shot down in September of 1994. The bad taste left from that fight, generated by GOP and Big Health lies, lasted into the November elections and turned Congress over to the GOP for the next twelve years.
That’s what I loved — Bill Clinton pulls off something that George W. Bush could never in a million years have done, and the Cons rip it to shreds.
I’d like to think I’m good at analysis. Sometimes I might be.
I’ve already lived through the fall of an Empire.
We knew ths as Bush was adventuring abroad. It was obvious early in Bush’s reign.
As Winston Churchill Wrote:
“I can look back at the glory of the Lion in all its Power”
Look guys, I agree with Kyeo we cant blame the Prez for something he hasn’t done yet… We do need a march preferably on a saturday or sunday so i can participate. So yeah let’s not loose hope yet over speculations….I still believe in Obama. YES WE CAN!!!
AND WE’D BETTER
Which would make a good antiphonal chant…
Yes We Can…and we’d better…Yes, etc
the solution is often to vote with your feet.
leave the usa. go to canada. france. or some other enlightened country.
as i understand it, you don’t even have to be a french citizen to subscribe to their health care system, which a doctor friend of mine, living in provence, considers far superior to usa health care for a fraction of the cost. you pay the front-end annual cost, and whenever you are in france, as i heard him, you are entitled to the full benefits of the french health care system.
the usa is a failed empire. the time has come to dismantle the amerikan munitions industries, devote our assets to making the world a better place.
as to financing “protect the citizenry” programs, it is very easy and would be virtually unnoticeable to the goldman-sachsters: remove the caps on witholding, take a cut on all levels of income[regular as well as cap gains] – all social security accounts would never look back for financing, all social security financing for decades would be assured.
and with a re-orientation of war-making, military expenditures, to “protect the citizenry” programs, all citizens of the usa could be assured of a better environment in all respects, for a very long time.
it is only the nuevo-feudalists and their vassals that intend to preserve the status quo[pro plutocrat/aristocrat] concerning health care. i write this as a manufacturer of a much more complex range of products than would be apparent to the uninformed. depending upon the economy, i employ 45-65.
at the moment, i think that i am paying blue cross approximately $5,400.00 per employee per year. and every renewal year generally results in substantial increases in premiums[god help your health care insurance premiums if any employee develops a serious illness - cancer, for instance].
it seems clear to me that implementing a health care system that eliminates “for profit” delivering entities would be a boon to the citizenry. and this could all be accomplished under the current medicare system with only a scaling up in processing personnel.
odd isn’t it how it is that i think this health care management/financing model wasn’t even allowed to be considered. tells you everthing about who owns/controls the usa.
while my reptillian congressman is home for recess, i am attempting to arrange a personal meeting with him. so as to discuss this issue. i urge you all to do the same.
i think that you need to make the appointment via letter. if you have access to a computer, construct your letter on a template[letterhead] that contains your name, address, phone number[so that there will be no misunderstanding that you reside in the congressperson’s district]. then send it certified, return receipt requested. so that there is a record of its receipt by the congressperson’s office[if congress is in recess, send one copy to the washington dc office, another to the local office in your part of that congressional district].
the text of the letter needs to be short and sweet. i see it this text[or a variation]…..
dear
i reside in your congressional district. while you are back in this district during recess, i would like to make an appointment to visit with you about the usa and health care.
i would require no more than 15 minutes to conduct this conversation.
thanking you in advance for your attention to this request and for scheduling an appointment, i am,
sincerely,
registered voter’s name
sink ‘em with these letters. start sending ‘em tomorrow.
YOU CAN SEND EMAILS. YOU CAN TELEPHONE. BUT THOSE ARE DISCOUNTED/DISREGARDED IF THERE IS NO FOUNDATION DOCUMENT[LETTER]. SO,SEND THE LETTERS. AND DO IT WHERE YOU CAN OBTAIN PROOF OF DELIVERY[VERY IMPORTANT].
i think you can sink the insurance lobby, big pharma if this is done on a large, national scale.
cheers.
Obama’s Health Care Policy aide Nancy-Ann DeParle was interviewed on American Public Media’s MarketPlace radio program within the last few days, and when asked by the host whether, come September, Obama would start lobbying Congress for medical insurance reform in a way that meant business (too-true pun not intended), unless progress had been made, DeParle replied (paraphrased):
Someone knows what Obama is saying in all those private conversations, and whether (or not) what he’s saying privately corresponds to what he’s saying publicly.
Some such conversation apparently led to the following action by Harry Reid in the Senate yesterday, on behalf of bill sponsor Jim DeMint:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.go…..sition=all
DeMint’s bill, S. 1752, was only introduced on August 4 (along with a companion Senate Resolution 238), but seems headed for the Senate floor without benefit of committee referral. The bill had its first reading, and was placed on the Legislative Calendar under ‘Read the First Time’ the day it was introduced; then Reid yesterday went through the formula for reading the bill the second time, in preparation for floor action upon a motion to proceed, placing the bill on the Legislative Calendar under ‘General Orders.’ All other bills introduced on 8/4 were referred to committee, rather than being read.
The text of DeMint’s bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.1572:
so no more voting Democratic no matter what for you? Congratulations!
those Donkeys will never produce a pony.
I’m willing to bet money that Baucus’ bill is Daschle’s bill (Daschle, Dole, Mitchell and Baker) and that the essence of the bill has been written before Obama even won the election. (And yes, even though Baucus and Daschle are supposedly sworn enemies, I believe this is true.)
I have been saying this for some time now. Daschle, the man chosen to be the king of healthcare reform, didn’t just fade away. He’s been there in the wings working on this all along. He works for a lobbying firm and therefore can engage corporations and other lobbyists, providing some cover for Pres. Obama and his promise never to have lobbyists in his White House.
Well, this is going to come down to the people and our representatives in the House.
It’s no secret that I have always had many doubts about Obama and his honesty and tactics, but truly, I never thought that we would be, so quickly, in a position of fighting against Big Health, our new hope-filled president and most of Congress at the same time. I knew this would be an epic battle but never thought that something that 76% of the people want would be so hard to get from our own representatives.
We have to try to avoid getting into the position where at the last minute, after much fighting and then with fanfare, Democrats come up with a public option that nearly everyone will agree to and that will be put into the bill. It will, of course, be co-ops, or as Jonathan Alter said tonight on Countdown, “super co-ops”. If the president, the Speaker and the media team up and start telling us that this is our strong, robust public option, that’s where our toughest and most critical point will be. That will call for massive demonstration, assuming that they don’t do it overnight in a conference committee.
See, one of the biggest problems with the Democrats is that they think we’re stupid and they think that they are so glorious right now that when they hand us chickenshit and call it chicken salad, we’ll believe it. Perhaps this summer, many in Congress will come to their senses. There have to be an increasing number of Congressfolk who are not happy about a bait and switch strategy with this health care bill because they are the ones who will have to pay the price first in elections. There have to be a number of Congresspeople who will be furious that the resources of three committees will have been purposefully wasted if the Senate Finance bill is substituted.
Perhaps Pres. Obama will start coming to his senses too when he finds that his supporters are dropping like flies. I’m not sure *what* will happen within the OFA organization. Will they just line up behind anything the president offers? I tend to think they won’t this time, or that they’ll lose a lot of volunteers if there’s no viable public option.
Somebody better start coming to his/her senses. You can’t keep screwing people over and expect to keep winning. This president ran and was elected largely on trust. After the bail out bill, the stimulus, the lack of accountability for the Bush admin. and all of this with a disastrous economy and job market, that trust is already waning. Without trust, he cannot be effective. He has to come to his senses, and quickly.
And the continued Bush-era “state secrets” arguments; the apparent plans to keep human beings imprisoned indefinitely whom the U.S. has tortured but for whom there’s too little or no evidence that they’ve engaged in terrorism; the refusal so far to carry out our treaty obligation to prosecute torturers, including the lawyers who OKd torture; and the failure to say what’s happened to the children, 7 and 9 years old, respectively, when captured and imprisoned, of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and ….
The WH has Lawerence O’Donnel & Johnathan Alter on MSNBC laying the ground work for the gentle let down to the progressives:I saw snatches of TV today ,and won’t you know it “Co-op” was the magic word being bandied about by the above named individuals.
It’s my belief that unless we(Libruls)get in the streets we will be punked once more by the WH & Dem party.
you have been punked. will always be punked.
as long as buckley versus vallejo is the law of the land.
Exactly, this Jonathon Alter clown has been on everyday with the same message. Obama has severly disapointed me and a lot of people that are actually paying attention, as someone else mentioned, between the bailout, non-accountability of the Bush Admin, the weak Stimulus-plan, the watered down health care legislation, and AFGHANISTAN… Obama will go down as an equally ineffective pro-corporation sycophant president as Bill Clinton.
At least Hillary would have gotten us health care, indeed. I thought Obama was a transforming figure in politics…not more of the same. I’m moving to San Francisco, and the rest of america can go down in flames.
HAHA. SF isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. They cant even put in new bike racks.
I don’t think Hillary would have given us meaningful reform as only Kucinich and Edwards had an inkling of reform. But there’s no reason anything Obama does now should be a surprise, he said it all along with his weird “bipartisan/postpartisan” bull and his hostility of anything slightly left. He even equates womens’ health (e.g. having choice) as one of the “extremes on both sides”. WTF? Who voted for this guy?
Obama is the new enemy.
Well, looking back, Obama’s policies never were particularly progressive. He was to the right of Hillary. But he was a far superior campaigner and is a master of rhetoric. He knows how to talk the talk, but he’s not going to actually come through for progressives barring some drastic change, like another financial collapse. If you look at the time it took the conservative movement to get Reagan elected, Progressives have a few more elections yet to have one of their own at 1600 Penn Ave. Just have to keep building up the movement for the long-term, keep an eye on the war, despite losing battles along the way.
So Jane – is all hope lost at this point?
In thinking about recent events, I’m feeling pretty pessimistic. I think Dems have failed the progressives – and frankly, Obama is failing. What has Obama done for the left since he got into office? Even before he got in, he failed on the telecomm immunity issue. And all you have to do is peruse through a few of Glenn Greenwald’s posts to see what he’s done with Gitmo policies (long story short – continuing or even strengthening Bush’s unconstitutional policies). The bank bailout may have turned around the stock market to some extent, but it gave trillions of dollars of taxpayer money to corporations like Goldman Sachs, who now are back to the same old. Where’s the upside for everyday Americans?
And now – the ONE thing that I personally felt may redeem Obama and the Dems – REAL health care reform – looks like it’s falling through. They’re going to put together a lame package and call it “reform”, but nothing will improve for Americans. Then if they need to, they’ll say “oh, we didn’t know it would be like this etc etc” even though those on the left always warned them, just like we did about the Iraq war. When I look at these stupid protests at townhalls, I have to agree with Bill Maher – we live in Stupid America. People here don’t know what to truly get passionate and outraged about – they’re all Fixed News-brainwashed puppies getting worked up about “socialism” and birth certificates instead of illegal wars that are costing them more than they’ll ever know. They protest health care reform that will actually HELP them, their families, and children. And they continue to vote for people (both Repugs and Dems, at this point) that have other interests at heart who won’t fight for them.
Certain liberal blogs also deserve fingers pointed at them, if Obama doesn’t push this through – e.g. HuffPo and DailyKos, which went so far as to endorse Obama and convince everyone that he had progressive interests at heart. Now I do find myself wondering – was Hillary the right choice for this?? Ah, hindsight.
I’m tired and exhausted from this crap. After the elation I felt of Obama winning the presidency a few months ago, I’m astonished that I feel so downright disappointed right now. I know it hasn’t been long since Obama became president (Bush had 8 full years to royally screw things up) – but if health care isn’t fixed NOW when we finally have an opportunity to – I can’t think of much that’s more important to the living standards of most Americans and has such a direct impact. So I ask everyone here if they have more encouraging thoughts. And please tell me, what are the NEXT steps????
And please tell me, what are the NEXT steps????
Mass demonstrations and general strikes.