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We’re hearing that the Congressional Progressive Caucus is not going to lie down and get rolled by the Blue Dogs on the Health Care bill. They are having a press conference at 2:30 on the Hill, and they are circulating a letter for signatures. What the letter will contain is unclear, but at this point they are saying they have the votes to defeat the Waxman-Blue Dog compromise on the floor.
From The Hill:
A House leadership deal with Blue Dogs and an aggressive marketing push by Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) shifted the healthcare debate sharply toward centrist positions Wednesday, sparking threats of rebellion from the left.
[]
Liberals aimed to win 50 signatures on a letter to their leaders opposing the deal to make it clear they could defeat the healthcare bill on the floor.
“Fifty is our threshold,” said Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), a co-chairman of the caucus. “That’ll kill anything.”
The White House and Democratic leaders moved quickly to try to quell the liberal insurrection. Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called a group of liberals to her office in the mid-afternoon, and Democrats postponed plans to continue a stalled markup of the bill by the Energy and Commerce Committee until Friday.
Biggest non-surprise: Jan Schakowsky is once again tapped as "most likely to lead the bail."
I’m cautiously optimistic. Look, we always knew that if there was any hope for a public plan whatsoever, it would come from progressives in the House. We said from day one of the whip count effort:
There are 178 Republicans in the House. A House majority is 218. If all of the Republicans agree to vote against something, as they indicate they will on health care, then any 40 Democrats banding together can control the passage of a bill (218 – 178 = 40).
Stated another way: if 40 Democrats in the House say they will not vote for any health care bill that does not have a strong public plan, then they have the same power that a Ben Nelson or an Evan Bayh has had in the Senate to determine the outcome–when every vote was needed to pass something. Every commitment we get in excess of that 40 makes the commitment even more powerful.
It appears they’re doing it. For now anyway. The arm twisting has already started — but that’s why it’s so important to get them on the record now, and get them to take the pledge. Because it’s going to be a long, hard haul to the end of conference, and the fight has just begun.
Keep calling. This is the first time anything even close to this has happened, and the calls you make letting progressive members of Congress know what you expect is making it possible.
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1. The link’s bad — goes to Google mail. Here’s the right one:
http://thehill.com/leading-the…..07-29.html
2. Theses sentences are missing from the post but I believe important:
Seems like Obama’s part of the problem, not part of the solution.
If every House Caucus decides to use the same approach,there will be no bill and the result is failure. If there is no meeting ground, the result is the Democrats will show the country they are unable to govern, unable to have any party discipline for a greater purpose. And they will effectively commit suicide as a party and the Rs will rule for another generation. I don’t find that to be a satisfactory result. When are the adults going to take charge?
Brigid has it right. This approach is most likely to result in no bill, a black eye for President Obama, and a Democratic debacle in the 2010 elections.
We need leadership, not negotiation, from our President. His approach is sapping his support and producing deadlock.
Your “whip count” approach may succeed, and result in a Pyrrhic victory.
The poll results are interesting. People accurately worry that their insurance may be lost or that the premiums will go up. Given the changes made by the Blue Dogs, there will be no competition from a public plan, so costs will rise. To keep costs low, people will buy high deductible, bankruptcy insurance type plans, so in effect, they will lose coverage, if there is no robust public plan. If the progressives do not stand up and hold the line against the Blue Dogs, reform will fail.
99% of the people in the poll you cited have some form of health insurance: 70% had employment based insurance;18% had Medicare or Medicaid; 9 % had private plans;2% had veterans coverage.
Now do you understand part of the reason why 59% thought that they would not benefit from reform? 31% of the insured group think that they will benefit, and there is not even any bill yet! If they had polled only the uninsured, do you think 59% would have thought that they would benefit from reform? I do.
Is the above attributable to the President’s actions? Not so much.
Please identify “the adults?”
The progressives have 76% of the country behind them. It’s their job to represent them.
If by “Pyrrhic victory” you mean everyone loses, if no bill is passed, I would have agreed with you until last night when I put the changes conceded to the Blue Dogs into consideration.
The concessions from HR3200 would create a noncompetitive insurance environment and guarantee huge profits to the private insurance companies at taxpayer expense, even using money squeezed from Medicare. It would be another government giveaway to the corporations. At least with no bill passed the suction pipe from private insurers is removed from the Treasury and from the wallets of ordinary citizens.
Yes, the Blue Dog version would be worse than no bill. My point is that, if all that is accomplished is stopping a bad bill, then:
- The American people lose
- The President loses
- The progressives lose
- The Democrats lose in 2010
We must set our sights higher, to enact a good bill, not merely stopping the bad bill. That will require more from the President and the Democratic leadership in Congress than we have seen to date.
All you say is true, but appearances count, especially when they are highlighted on the front page of the NYT.
It’s time those 76% of people started getting angry. If tea baggers can get people in the streets over silly wing nut issues, why can’t progressives get 38% (half of 76) of people to act. Call! Fax! Write Letters! Go to Town Meetings! Call is sick if you have to. We need a national strike, A Blue Flu for the Dog Days. Congress should spend every minute of it’s ‘recess’ getting an ear full from every single one of us!
It looks this might come down to a game of chicken between conservative and progressive Democrats – which is exactly what the Republicans need and the millions of uninsured and underinsured Americans don’t need. Hope and change, my ass.
Jane,
EPUd but the critters constituents are technically the voters, but in practice the corporations throught lobbyist proxies.
You know what it’s like to speak to a critter. When you are a lobbyists bearing bag full of money all that changes.
That’s one of the major problems here.
Public opinion polls don’t matter. I wonder if call logs do. I’ve made lots of calls and emails.
Thanks for your work Jane!
Toll-free number to Capitol switchboard, courtesy of the United Church of Christ Justice and Witness Ministries and the United Methodist Church General Board of Church and Society.
Toll free # 1-888-797-8717
Thanks for continuing this mighty effort, Jane. It’s wonderful to see progress being made in new areas.
Tom the Dancing Bug has a great new comic up wherein the Earth is immediately threatened with an asteroid, but everyone in teh Beltway wants a “bipartisan solution.”
What I see reflected here is the same suicidal behavior that is reflected across the blogosphere. The compromise that Waxman made doesn’t kill public option according to TPM. The splintering and recrimination are starting, and will simply lead to an historic failure and an historic defeat of all progressive leadership in this country. I can’t support that. Just getting angry and getting “tough” is not how leadership in a divided country happens. Getting a bill that gives an entitlement to health care, to nearly all Americans, can be a beginning. And the final House bill isn’t what is coming out of the Waxman committee.
I didn’t fill out the Whip Count Form, because I didn’t ask specifically if she’d take the pledge (I’m sorry!), but I called Jan Schakowsky’s office:
I just spoke to a woman in Jan Schakowsky’s office and asked her to tell Jan to please stand strong and don’t vote for any plan that doesn’t have a strong public option. The staffer emphactically assured me that she would NOT vote for any bill that doesn’t have a strong (and she empahsized “strong”) public option. I said I understood she was under a lot of pressure to change her vote and the staffer assured me she wouldn’t. FWIW.
and you’re surprised about that?
Just getting angry and getting “tough” is not how leadership in a divided country happens.
76% is “divided”?
I find it interesting that there seems to be such overwhelming support FROM the public for
choice of keeping their own insurance
single payer option
since no one is advocating closing down any insurance companies you certainly can buy their insurance under the their terms.
So the question really becomes how DO we pay for the costs of health care?
We need to lower the costs, get rid of rip offs, high fees and redundant unnecessary procedures.
We use the income tax system to fund the system
We need to increase the efficiency of the system
We need to have sensible fees for medical care… $250,000 for surgery???
But we also know that The Hill is part of the problem and not part of the solution.
In the end we need to ask why does health care costs so much in this country and has no better outcomes?
I would rather see all of the uninsured get enrolled under Medicare however the Blue Dog compromise would still cover a huge number of the uninsured AND limit the ability of insurance companies to deny people coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions.
The current Democratic majority in the House and Senate is based on the large numbers of Blue Dog democrats who won seats in very conservative areas (ex. Idaho, North Carolina, etc….) If Republicans were in those same seats that they would be opposed to practically any health reforms.
The bill isn’t perfect but it would represent a major victory for progressives and for the Obama administration. On the other hand, if a compromise bill is spiked by progressives, the GOP will be empowered and will have a stronger hand to go after the Blue Dogs in the House and Senate who have allowed us to get things like cap and trade, the stimulus and judges like Sotomayor. And then Obama will be able to do nothing after 2010 or 2012.
It seems that there is investigation and prosecution happening against people who are falsely billing for Medicare services. I saw arrests on TV. Does anyone know if this is something new that Obama has spearheaded?
Anybody else notice that the more the health care reform packages look Republican-wrapped, the lower Congress’ and the President’s poll numbers are going? Don’t the Democrats remember the last election? America voted progressive. America voted for change.
Not the same ol’ same ol’…
“Seems like Obama’s part of the problem, not part of the solution.”
Exactly right. He’s so concerned with being seen as bipartisan (i.e., caving to the demands of a tiny group of idiots whose views are the polar opposite of the American people in general and their own constituents specifically) that he isn’t willing to do what it takes to represent America. I don’t think I’ll be voting for him in 2012 unless he gets his shit together.
Well, good luck, is all I can say.
I turn 64 on August 9th. This pissing around on health care is the greatest betrayal and tragedy of my lifetime. I have unsubscribed from all Democratic party email lists, including BarackObama.com. They (Democrats, Republicans, media) aren’t getting me back, either. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE GREATER GOOD. I will have nothing to do with these soulless morons .
Can’t believe Obama, so what’s left?
Life/Earth/Spirit/Love. You either get it or you don’t.
Obama is trying work within a very conservative money / special interest structure to get something for the people. It ain’t easy.
I am not happy with his compromise slow approach, but you just can’t turn this around any other way.
I am giving him the benefit of the doubt about this because he can’t announce this as his strategy because he would not get a thing done and no cooperation from the bad guys he is (hopefully) trying to best.
who should you be calling ? and what should you be saying ??
Slinkerwink’s Action Items for Today
JUst finished writing to my Rep., Carol Shea Porter, who has been a stalwart on this issue and many others. I asked her to vote for nothing less than single payer. I believe that now the dogs of war have gutted, or are intending to gut, any decent plan it is time to go back to single payer and to hell with “public options”. No compromise, none.
I have these debates with my sister who is 65 and as left as can be. She is a very strong Obama supporter because she believes that you can’t do anything progressive within this system and until the climate changes you need to move very slowly in the right direction. Too slow for me.
I am sure if he had more progressive policies he would would be either assassinated or pilloried and get nothing done whatsoever. NOTHING, not a thing.
It’s $ not D or R that is the enemy here.
mcconnell $3.3M, hatch $2.9M, pomeroy $2.9M, baucus $2.8M, grassley $2.8M, ensign $2.4M, burr $2.3M, cornyn $2.2M, conrad $2.1M, cantor $1.8M, boehner $1.6M, reid $1.5M was paid by the Medical Industrial Complex to kill Health Care Reform.
Follow the Money: Link
Call Congress and demand, Single-Payer Health Care for All Now!
Sign Single-Payer Petition: Link
SEMPER FI!
Why is it always the Progressives who have to compromise? We are the thoughtful, inclusive and yes practical policymakers here, not the selfish greedheads who only want to grease their own palms.
Absolutely agree. Obama’s caught between so many rocks and hard places it will be a miracle if we get a law that does anything to change/improve the health care delivery system in our country.
One realization I had, though, while turning this all over in my head was thinking how refreshing it is to have a debate on making this country a more perfect union instead of the alledged war crimes of our elected leaders. If that’s the only change we get, well, that is something.
There’s your problem $.
This should be illegal and it’s just bribery.
Bribery is illegal ain’t it?
Your right about that Sander, people should stop flinging outrage around and concentrate on getting a good foundation set via a bill that can be expanded and improved over the next few years. Jan S. is a good lawmaker and an ally of the President, they are working hard, netroots are working hard, lobbyists are working hard in the other direction. The end result will be ok by me if all the uninsured have a check-up and follow-up care scheduled by year end. That’s an ambitious but achievable goal. The rest is just noise.
Bribing govt. officials is a time-honored profession, apparently. Like prostitution.
I have to say that from what I’m hearing from Blue Dogs and their counterparts in the Senate, it’s starting to seem that no plan would be better than their efforts to funnel more money from our pockets into the corporate coffers.
A personal mandate with no public option is just a big ol’ gift to insurance companies, making it illegal not to give them money by the truckload.
Sure there will be political ramifications if Obama and the Dems can’t produce health care reform, but don’t blame Progressives for standing up for We the People when the conservative Dems are shooting themselves in the foot.
Jane, Slinky -
just got off the phone w/Schakowsky’s office -
1. they claim they are standing firm AGAINST compromise (I politely countered w/ her record to date – they countered back)
2. staffer claimed she had taken our pledge – “firedoglake’s pledge, not to be confused with toothless statements offered up so far ???” I asked
staffer then recited our 3 points –
is this a new development ??
they are getting hammered with calls – KEEP IT UP ‘Dogs!!
202) 225-2111
my rep is rohrabacher. I always figured it doesnt help to call out of district as they want your zipcode.
I prefer not to make that up.’
what to do?
make that up?
Jane, I came across this letter and thought it was interesting challenge to the NFIB.
Might be worth looking at some of the info contained by the writer. It has grounding that could be of import to progressives.
Paring this Chris Link editorial with Wendell Potter’s perspectives makes the direction of the meaning of health care reform a clearly stated objective difficult to object to. If I were a progressive, I would be pulling from these two who have the unique and qualified perspectives to speak about reform.
Maybe invite both here for a Salon?
see the link @ 29 above. my being out of district hasn’t mattered to any of the offices I’ve called this morning and I am out of all their districts :D
It seems to me all of the congress critters are putting things in the bill to ensure it fails. ALL of Congress is being Bribed (campaign donations) to make sure we have nothing. Blue Dogs and progressives alike will be telling everyone ” we did what we could but we just didn’t have the votes ,hehehe, but next time we’ll get there just wait and see” while we all have our premium payments going to fund the “campaign contributions” of those hard working critters.
72% of Americans want Public Option- Congress divided?
GOP Tom Delay’s RE-DISTRICTING does not match the American people!
How many GOP members of congress read Medicare Part D?
What did CBO score the Medicare Part D – Law for SENIORS?
R-GA Deal was on C-SPAN this am-
Here are my tweets to R-GA Deal this am on C-Span
R-GA Deal needs to research more – he is incorrect in most everything that came out of his mouth.
This is the DO NOTHINGS solution to REFORM!
R-GA Deal state= REfundable Tax Credits for HC Reform
How do refund tax credits BEND the COST CURVE?
R-GA Deal = NO GOVERNMENT
Does Georgia want government involved in their Water Dispute with AL and FL?
USA ranks 37th by WHO standards- I am sure R-GA Deal rejects that finding
Deal states 100 Billion- Pence lies and states 1 TRILLION ? What are you people talking about? Lewin Group- United HC
R-GA Deal = Deal stated Cafeteria plans do not exist!
A cafeteria plan is a separate written plan maintained by employer- section 125 of the Internal Revenue Code- again R-GA Deal?
How many times did Republicans state Seniors would die in your 2 hour one min speeches 7-28-09?
What did R-GA DEAL do about the massive fraud at First American Healthcare based in Georgia – in the late 80’s?
R-GA DEAL was attorney in Geaorgia while this FRAUD RAPED our healthcare system.
R-GA Deal = Canadians come to SU for our great healthcare
Canadians wrote an article yesterday stating they do not want US healthcare
R-GA Deal = Stated this BILL will give insurane to illegals.
Where in the bill regard illegals – another lie?
72% of Americans want Public Option- Congress divided? Tom Delay’s Gerrymandering does not match the American people!
R-GA Deal = NO GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE?
Worldwide- Americans do not even rank in the top 25 for education ” We need help in education-Just like GA wants gvt help w/water
Did you read Med D- what was the CBO score on Med D?
He was complaining about not reading bill!
Med Advantage was created to end Medicare-
He is upset MED ADVANTAGE will not continue to get their $150 BIL Tax BREAKS
During the 3hr -1 min speeches 7-28-09 – how many times did GOP state seniors would DIE due to HC Reform?
LIES LIES LIES
Steve King of IA took 2 hrs on the house floor 7-26-09.Most of his speech was about CRIMINAL ACORN-not Healthcare Reform-why?
NO TIME TO READ THE BILL?
LIAR LIAR LIAR
Americans go to Canada to get their Cancer Drugs- Medicare Part D- a Republican Plan -did you read that- what was CBO score?
LIAR LIAR LIAR
Other than the Lewin Group-subsidiary of United Healthcare & Heritage- What other resources for his knowledge and info?
IDIOT LIAR IDIOT LIAR IDIOT LIAR
NO TIME TO LEARN ON YOUR OWN!!
R-IN Pence was busted by Andrea Mitchell yesterday with his lie about costing TRILLION DOLLARS
After she busted him- he then went on the HOUSE FLOOR and REPEATED the same lie Andrea BUSTED him with!
8 years of this crap
Pence- the one that is not sure about EVOLUTION
D-ND Pomeroy was in Insurance prior to arriving in DC-
He was also on C-Span this am
he was asked : How much has he rcvd from Ins and HC Cos?
he would not answer
He is against Public Option
How much insurance fraud did he prevent in ND as Insurance Commissioner?
This is by Paul Krugman:
It’s worth remembering the history of one of the Blue Dog Coalition’s founders: former Representative Billy Tauzin of Louisiana. Mr. Tauzin switched to the Republicans soon after the group’s creation; eight years later he pushed through the 2003 Medicare Modernization Act, a deeply irresponsible bill that included huge giveaways to drug and insurance companies. And then he left Congress to become, yes, the lavishly paid president of PhRMA, the pharmaceutical industry lobby.
One interpretation, then, is that the Blue Dogs are basically following in Mr. Tauzin’s footsteps: if their position is incoherent, it’s because they’re nothing but corporate tools, defending special interests. And as the Center for Responsive Politics pointed out in a recent report, drug and insurance companies have lately been pouring money into Blue Dog coffers.
Just sent this to the White House:
President Obama needs to lead on the health care reform issues. The time to negotiate is over. We need a leader who is protecting the people and not the insurance companies, the republicans and the blue dog democrats. I know that President Obama is a middle of the road kind of guy but these are NOT middle of the road times. People are dying. All that money that went to “save” the banks could have actually gone to save lives.
beat the corporate jerks have setup calling centers to off set our work.
Let me clarify…I am a progressive…
I was referencing, if I were a progressive member of congress!
THAT is wonderful! Way to go!
Way to go Jane!
absolutely loved your Senator Brown last night on KO – he actually called out co-ops as “phony”
on the Schakowsky thing – trust, but verify
I know. He was great. Remember, he has a Pulitzer Prize winning wife who maintains a refined focus on the working class and especially small business owners.
Just called Ben Ray Lujan. Staffer insisted he will stay strong and only support a strong public option.
thanks for calling !
I see he has his support for PO up on his Facebook Page.
you can become a fan (you can unfan later) and reiterate your stance on his wall – where everyone can see it – eg – will you stand with CPC today at 2:30 ??:D
I would rather have nothing, than anything the (D) or (R) conservatards have fashioned. Why don’t they all go home and let the adults take it from here. How are these few assholes allowed to take 76% of the country hostage again? SPIT! I am going to start going down the list and making calls.
You are correct. No bill at all would be better than a bill with a mandate but no public option. What’s currently in Congress will just line the pockets of the healthcare industry, to the detriment of us all.
Unfortunately, the current “Democratic” plan foisted on us by Baucus and the others is an outright defeat. So a Pyrrhic victory is better than none at all.
In fact, the analogy is an apt one. Like Pyrrhus of Epirus, the powerful beltway insiders and “Democratic” Party leaders have won their power play and given the insurers the bill that insurers want. But the process of doing so will, hopefully, break their power.
So be it. Personally, I’d prefer outright, openly Republican rule to to Republican rule in Democratic clothing. At least in the former case, the real Democratic Party will have some hope of being a real alternative some day and Republican “ideas” can continue to discredit themselves.
It’s time the party leadership got this message. They can’t count on much of the rank and file if all they give us is warnings about how much worse Republicans will be.
More to the point, how many of those who feel their private for-profit insurance is adequate have actually had to use it? My guess is very few.
Those who have had a major medical emergency in the family know that, when you start filing significant claims, you find out both how much that a “gold-plated” policy does not cover and how much of what is covered will be denied, denied, and denied again in the hope that you will die or give up before the company pays out.
The offering from the insurance companies to our health is fecal matter. Our government is currently owned by them and we do not need to put up with this crap. Call, email, demand. These pigs get nice health insurance for free. We, the people, deserve and demand, exactly the same care. It is that simple. What in the hell is wrong with anyone not understanding the principle, the motive, the method of delivery and the outcome?
No compromise with these so called, “representatives”
I wonder if the White House push for a bad bill — good for insurance, mainly — is ultimately motivated by a drive to recover losses the so-called health insurance industry incurred in the financial meltdown. In other words, it was never the intention to reform health care in any positive way for anyone who is or could become sick or infirm, but merely to provide a mechanism to bail out that dreadful lot in the insurance racket. It’s always been in the back of my mind, but I’ve not explored this question.
At any rate, the White House handlers trying to pull an end-around can get stuffed, as well.
Of course getting angry and getting tough are the solution! Don’t be ridiculous. And “leadership” is not needed. Leaders have let us down. Democracy–forcing the will of the many on the privileged few–is what we need.
Thus far, the majority has let a minority of Blue Dog, corporate-owned, pseudo-Democrats dig in against what the country needs. We are still at war. The economy is in a shambles. The rich are getting richer. Workers are losing ground if they aren’t actually losing jobs. No more compromise! The appeasement has to stop.
You do not overcome bullying (and that is what it is) by begging and then giving in to what the bullies want. You overcome bullying by no longer letting yourself be pushed around. You make it clear that there will be consequences if you are pushed again.
People are very complacent these days about the consequences of allowing repeated defrauding of the electorate to go on, as if popular anger has no consequences. The mistake has been made before. Revolution always seems far away until it happens, and, when it does, it is always worse than expected. We came close in the 1930s. I know people wh were there. We got by because one privileged politician got the message and did the minimum necessary before it was too late. So now is the time to send the message and hope that the consequences are only political and electoral.
Actually, the actual healthcare costs, though high, are not the real problem. Around 30-35% of private, for-profit insurance cost is overhead–largely the overhead of shifting risk and denying care. If, as I have seen reported, for-profit health insurance profits also run 30% or more, we have a 60+% markup just for the privilege of having a private monopoly pay our medical bills.
By contrast, Medicare’s overhead is the lowest of any organization in the system.
As far as $250,000 being unreasonable for surgery, if I said I’d do your next open-heart operation for $200, would you take me up on it? I could get you open easily enough and I could probably put in a stint or graft an artery, provided there were instructions in the book. I’m good with my hands, and I had lots of anatomy back in college. The problem would be that you would have stopped breathing long before I started the actual repair. THAT is why you pay more for the real doctor.
I can’t be as generous. For a man caught between a rock and a hard place, he has suspiciously few bruises. Compromise is sometimes necessary–after a hard fight grinds to a standstill. Thus far, Mr. Obama has not done any fighting. I am deeply disappointed.
Have you checked him for bruises personally? The President is working very, very hard. So are we. No one works harder than the lobby trying protect their money flow. Understanding the roadblocks and working to clear them requires a huge effort from lots of people while fighting paid professionals on the other side. Has this country completely lost it’s ability to make a sustained effort toward a nationwide goal? If so, I will be deeply disappointed.
One further point about overhead: much of the cost on the care providers’ side is also generated by for-profit insurance.
The barriers that insurance companies erect in order to avoid paying benefits require inordinate amounts of work from doctors and hospitals. Doctors have to fill out endless claims and appeal forms to get their patients’ bills paid. This takes away from patient care and raises the cost of that care. Hospitals and large practices often hire specialist Patient Advocates–such as Licensed Nurse Practitioners–to negotiate with insurers on the patients’ behalf. This adds cost too.
When doctors and hospitals are paid, they will be systematically shorted by bogus “customary fees” (as a recent scandal highlighted) and will have to pass costs on elsewhere.
Finally, insurance companies exploit their near-monopoly status by forcing subscribers to use preferred physicians and hospitals–even, more and more, their own, captive, company-owned labs and pharmacies. This does what anticompetitive practices always do: it drives up revenues for the company by increasing the cost to subscribers and decreasing the payout to providers.
So the single biggest thing we could do for healthcare cost containment is to get rid of the for-profit insurers.
“No bill at all would be better than a bill with a mandate but no public option. What’s currently in Congress will just line the pockets of the healthcare industry, to the detriment of us all.”
No bill at all is better than a bill without a public option? Tell that to the tens of millions of people who do not have health insurance under this plan. Tell that to the people who develop cancer or diabetes and are denied insurance coverage because of pre-existing conditions. Tell that to the people who end up losing their homes because they don’t have health insurance and end up footing astronomical medical bills.
For profit insurers are less efficient than Medicare but there is little evidence to suggest that administrative costs account for a large percentage of health care spending.
For eight horrific years, while the country was going to hell, we had “The Vacation President.” Now, it seems to me, with our nation in such dire straights thanks to imbecilic King George, we’ve gone and elected “President Bait & Switch,” aka “The Compromise President.”
I proudly voted for Obama. In fact, during his inauguration, I had tears of joy running down my cheeks. I truly thought we all got together to accomplish something great, something once in a generation. But, after only 6 months in office, and after repeatedly giving Obama the benefit of the doubt (he’s much smarter than me; he must know something that I don’t; I just gotta let him do his thing), I feel duped.
I didn’t vote for Hillary. While I do think she’s brilliant, more than qualified for higher office, extremely hardworking, and truly patriotic, I had a real problem with her (quoting Carl Bernstein) “Lifelong difficult relationship with the truth.”
Well, I made a mistake. I now believe that Hillary was right. Obama is just pretty words. If Obama thinks he can keep getting away with appeasing everyone in the country but the people who worked so hard to put him in office, I think he’s going to be greatly surprised come next election.
Hillary 2012
I don’t agree with the idea that the President is part of the problem. If anybody is going to help our country out of this mess it is President Obama. When the Republicans got their way they wrecked our economy. It’s up to the Democrats to lead us back to peace and prosperity.
FDR was pushed to the left by liberals, and as a result he became one of the greatest Presidents ever. Just like the companies that spend time and money to influence politicians, ordinary voters expect that politicians they supported will be effective advocates for them. President has the momentum and the support. Will he take the current when it serves? If so, he could also be be one of the greatest.
If President Obama really wins this battle for the American people, maybe it will do what the National Labor Relations Act did for FDR. It might restore people’s faith in the process, and encourage them to become more involved.
It is a fact that health care reform will have both winners and losers. If we are successful, a few health insurance companies will lose but every other American company and citizen will win. We will be able to compete on a more even playing field with other developed nations.
I’d recommend you read this http://www.healthreformwatch.c…..s/#respond that tells about our history with health co-ops by Timothy S Jost. You’ll see it’s already been a loser for us.
Why do we continue to get these failed old policy suggestions?
Well seems BCBS’s Senator, Burr R-NC feels that after “…considerable amount of time studying health care systems around the world in search for new ways to re form our system.”Sen Tom Coburn and he want to re-write the tax code so every AMERICAN WOULD recieve an upfront tax credit to purchase health insurance.
Well aint that just great. Maybe he can also tell us how the hell are we suppose to pay for it till we get his tax credit? What a PW !
Robspierre,
I did not say I preferred the Baucus bill to none at all, I said that stopping that travesty is not enough. We must have something better – for the people, for the party, for everyone except the insurance companies and their lobbyists.
I think the entire Democratic caucus should stand firm together and pull a “Bushie” and tell the Blue Dogs, “You’re either with us, or you’re with the Republicans. You’re either Democrats, or you’re Republicans.”
Personally, I think the Blue Dogs are Republicans. We should kick them to the curb, cut our losses, and rebuild the Party without them while the Republicans are still weak and in the rebuilding process themselves.
If we don’t do this, then vote after vote, year after year, we can expect the Blue Dogs will continue to blackmail the Democratic Party and the 10s of 1,000,000s of voters they (the party) represents.
“LET’s SLOW DOWN and GET THIS RIGHT!”
Yeah, I’m RIGHT there with “Waterloo” Senator Jim DeMint. I mean, where did moving forward ever get us but in unfamiliar territory, and then what, “Single Payer?!?” Conservatives are RIGHT about HEALTH CARE Reform killing off the old people, poof Alzheimer’s, all gone. Like my daddy told Truman, “Harry, what in God’s name is the hurry? As far as I can see, throughout the Halls of Congress, everyone is covered, at least their asses.” “To the right, ever to the right; Never to the left, forever to the right; May our creed be never to exceed; Regulated speed, no matter what the need.”
Now all of a sudden our HEALTH CARE system isn’t good enough. This is all the fault of FDR giving LBJ “Great Society” ideas. We’ve always been Great for the RIGHT people. Next thing they’ll be drudging up JFK and claiming that HEALTH CARE too, “is a moral issue as old as the scriptures and as solid as the Constitution.” The Declaration of Independence may offer “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, but the Constitution says nothing about HEALTH CARE for all Americans. Getting a Driver’s License is the RIGHT way to think about this: HEALTH CARE is a privilege (not a right) rewarded by locals, and we can trust them (a lot more than some foreigner from Hawaii) to get it RIGHT.
RIGHT now, healing HEALTH CARE is just way too reckless and painful an adjustment. Isn’t it enough we can’t use the N word in public anymore. I mean being Red is RIGHT as long as you stick to the code: “To the right, ever to the right; Never to the left, forever to the right; We have gold, a market that will hold; Tradition that is old, a reluctance to be bold.” Now being RIGHT may sound like FRIGHT, but those that’s got the Gold makes the rules, and what’s RIGHT can always scare up enough frantic support. Reagan was RIGHT: the economy can take care of itself. The best thing our Government can do is allow America’s major corporations to boost the American economy from the top down. Obviously Corporate leadership knows the RIGHT way to take care of the Middle Class and lower income citizens; RIGHT people don’t need government. They stimulate the old fashioned way, by investing their Golden Parachutes in as many yachts, mansions and high tech obsolete war munitions, as possible. Then the rest of us will see some money. Now, in your heart of hearts, you know that’s RIGHT, RIGHT?
“Change” is a foreign concept to the institutionalized, be they Bankers, Insurance & Pharmaceutical Boards, or even those who’ll do all the RIGHT things to maintain their Capital Hill employment security. Besides, when did Progressive thinking become a good thing for real Americans. What’s wrong with being RIGHT all of a sudden? I mean, where would we be now if it weren’t for such great Americans like war mongers Rumsfeld & Wolfawitz, or Defenders of Justice Gonzales & Addington, or Constitutional script doctors Yoo & Rove, or the out of sight, but not out of commission, shell game artist: Tom DeLay; not to mention my personal favorite for whom we’ll all end up bending over to support — Super Dick: Cheney. Now that’s what’s RIGHT about America!
RIGHT now I’m certain Mitch McConnell, John Boehner and Bill Kristol already know what The C Street FAMILY has decided is RIGHT HEALTH CARE for the rest of us. “The FAMILY” is the proof of the Righteousness of the RIGHT. “Cancer on the Presidency” be damned. Doug Coe and Family are now RIGHT in the Congress: “Boil, Boil, Toil and Trouble.”
“Come ye cool, cold conservative men; The likes of which may never be seen again (don’t bet on it!); With our land, cash in hand; Self-command, future planned; And we’ll hold to our gold; Tradition that is old; reluctant to be bold. “To the right, ever to the right; Never to the left, forever to the right; May our creed be never to exceed; Regulated speed, no matter what the need.”
Signed: Not so Stupidly Yours, Cause we’re insured under the Right FAMILY plan,
Conservatives: The RIGHT People
Comment By: MARCELLO ROLLANDO,
(with all due respect to Sherman Edwards)
A Reasonable Voice for a Rebirth of Freedom, Honesty and the Rule of Law = This is what it means to be a Progressive American!
Thursday 30 July 2009
Anyone who’s worked for the Federal government, contracted with them or fought with them over legal issues knows they have no business running the entire health care system. It is bad enough we have to live with Medicare when we get old. Maybe progressives need to learn to stand on what is practical, not what you think serves the goals of social justice.
Fortunately the American people are smarter than Obama, Pelosi and Reid, and the likelihood of this disaster becoming law is dying quickly.
Now that a conservative has thrown his two cents in, feel free to use personal attacks; its what liberals do best these days.
P.S. — There are 50 Reasons to Stop Obamacare:
http://pastehtml.com/view/090728AE3C8LCP.html
There’s absolutely nothing on the table concerning the Federal Government running all of health care and to imply this is irresponsible and stupid. What’s on the table is what to do with Health Insurance which is a failed third party payer that interferes with health care delivery.
Under a single payer health plan, every one would get their choice of doctors and hospitals. It has nothing to do with nationalizing these assets. It has everything to do with eliminating moral hazard, information asymmetry, and the adverse selection problem which creates the single most expensive health care and 37th most effective health care delivery system in the world. We simply pay too much in this failed market.
I don’t need to resort to personal attacks when people use fallacy and fantasy to make their arguments.
Okay, now for my 2c worth! Despite all the Mainstreem Media BS this is NOT 1993. Back then Bush (41) was just a jokey (!) kind of memory. We all know better now. We had just ‘won’ the cold war and were looking forward to a peace dividend (= eventual budget equilibrium), even with slimy creatures like the Clintons in charge.
These are different times. Harry & Louise could then fool some of the suckers (some of the time) but everyone knows all too well how HMO’s worked out & how the insurance companies behaved afterward. Economic gain in the ’90’s has turned into economic pain. Anxiety and uncertainty has resulted in ‘change you can believe in.’
I have broadcast my concerns about Obama and the Democrats on this site for quite some time & they’re busily living down to my expectations. However, anxiety works both ways. In the last few days, I’ve received e-mails & telephone calls from the local Repubs (Bill Young R-yeuk, Putnam R-puke, etc). Guess all my nefarious comments about Bush 43 really were monitored by the NSA! I have been in my current residence >20 years – how did they get my e-mail address? Guess my e-mail to Sen. Nelson (D-liar) about voter payback for his blue-dogness really did some good!!!