Pinch me. Are we actually seeing signs of leadership?

Why, yes, yes we are!

I suspect that Harry Reid has finally tried to get cute once too often.

Harry, why don’t you toddle on off to Nevada and campaign and let someone else actually work as Majority Leader who might be willing to support the president in these little things.

Harry Reid is almost as bad as HoJo. my contempt is infinite.

He finally found his way up the steps to the bully pulpet. Now he just needs to turn on the bullhorn and show us his veins popping out of his neck. The way it’s supposed to be.

It’s worth pointing out that many of us can’t afford vacations due to the problems with health care. Why should Congress get a vacation for prolonging our wait?

AP, natch, has a different story (via Yahoo):

President Barack Obama is acknowledging the Senate won’t make his deadline for a vote on overhauling health care, and he says, “That’s OK.”

Speaking in a Cleveland suburb on Thursday, Obama said, “I just want people to keep on working.”

Wouldn’t hurt if he’d turn a few more degrees to left of center, either. Maybe even stop kicking progressives and his grassroots base in the teeth. FWDiva

This is a comment I posted in a previous thread, but it seems it might be relevant here, too:

Thom Hartmann was reporting on his radio show today something to the effect that the President has a Constitutional right to hold the Senate in session and not allow them to take their vacation. Did anyone else catch this, and catch more of the details–I just heard the tail end of it. Would Obama do this?

Does anyone know more about the President’s constitutional rights in this regard?

Hi Jane, what is the most effective thing that I (or any of us) can do at this point?

Thanks!

Not Jane, but making Reid’s phone line melt doesn’t hurt:

Phone: 202-224-3542 / Fax: 202-224-7327.

Toll Free for Nevadans: 1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343) -Restricted to calls originating from area codes 775 and 702

This is so infuriating to me. I’ve been disgusted with Reid for years, but I had hoped that a big electoral victory would steel his spine. He’s even worse than before.

I just don’t understand how they can all act like this is the equivalent of naming a post office or smacking MoveOn around. What’s the rush? The human face of this tragedy of a health care system doesn’t seem to move them at all. Money, money, money.

Screw them and their vacation. Do the work.

That doesn’t contradict what the senior White House official said. In fact, it’s very good.

Harry Reid’s counting on collegiality to keep him Majority Leader, apparently. He’s going to need more than that after this little stunt.

Phone: 202-224-3542 / Fax: 202-224-7327.

Toll Free for Nevadans: 1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343) -Restricted to calls originating from area codes 775 and 702

this begs a question that I haven’t really heard discussed: should we demand that the timeframe for implementation of universal healthcare be moved forward or that there be interim relief beginning, say 6 months from passage? Such would provide massively needed benefits for millions of unemployed Americans and be a powerful stimulus shot-in-the-arm for the economy.

Tell your member of Congress and your Senator to stay and vote — just like thebagofhealthandpolitics, many people can’t afford to take vacations, and certainly don’t get to before the job is done.

They should stay.

Thank you. I’m calling now.

If he wants the troops to get passionate behind him, he has to point his bullhorn left of center.

Here’s my theory why Obama needs them to stay and pass health care reform quickly: He wants HCR passed before torture investigations begin. His hand is soon to be forced on that front by document release. Once HCR is passed, then I believe (perhaps naively hope) that Obama will start REAL torture investigations.

Well the deadline is technically tomorrow, so that’s not going to happen. But he still wants them to stay.

Putting up a video of Chelle Pingree in a couple of minutes that explains why.

I agree that extending the time is not good. But, there is no denying that the ‘get it right over get it quick’ slogan is a damn tough one to counter. It requires convincing people that the persons asking for delay are acting in bad faith. I think most of them are, but doubt most folks do.

yes. I just hope its leadership that progressives can live with. He can lead to push a bill through, but will it be a bill we find acceptable? I’m kind of resigned to a mammoth mess of an amended-to-hell compromise conference bill.

well.. we can always enact the much simpler rethug “and here a miracle happens” healthcare proposal instead. Remember this one, from their fudget?: http://blog.prospect.org/blog/…..bchart.jpg ?

Article II section 3

… he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; …

http://www.law.cornell.edu/con…..cleii.html

Sorry, Speaker Pelosi just announced no vote before recess either. The fish will have to rot in public another three months…

How many times does the “former boxer” Harry Reid have to throw in the towel before Obama wises up that he’s not in this to win?

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

I signed onto your bandwagon, now let’s get another started, Sister Hamsher, One Hung Harry Reid has gotta go as majority leader! The politics of ALL of this is breakin’ for the Democrats and for the country, so no matter how much money the lobbyists spend or how much bullshit the corporate media throws, as long as the Congress stays in session there will be a bill or the Blue Dogs and fascist fellow travelers in the Senate will not return after November 2010.

Harry Reid is toast as leader no matter what happens and his only hope of re-election is with Obama’s endorsement and money…Reid is so weak he couldn’t organize the stones in a rock garden to adjourn.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE WAR IS IN OUR LIVINGROOMS NOW!!

Toll-free numbers for Capitol Hill:
1-877 851-6437 or 1-800 828-0498

Let’s fight one battle at a time. Clinton tried to with the war in the first skirmish and wound up with nothing. A less than ideal bill at this time is a start. Improvements can be made later.

I appeciate all that FDL has done, but honestly, I am so fed up with “activism” at the point of a submit button.

If there had been email and blogs during the Vietnam years, the war would still be on. You have to do like we did then and the Iranian protesters are doing now. You have to take risks and GET ARRESTED… Martin Luther King could tell you so. Seems to me that the efficacy of calling or emailing our “reps” is about zilch. Entirely too much self-importance in the progressive blogosphere, making one feel like blogging is the same as “doing” something. [grumble, bitch, whine] Geez, not even Obama had any passion last night.

The ugly truth, however, may be that not enough Americans give a damn. And therein lies a bleak lesson for anyone with a good heart and conscience, especially anyone with kids to raise.

It’s the Democrats in the Senate who keep Reid as the Majority Leader. They must agree with his constant desire to appease the Republics.

Well, my call to Senator Reid’s office didn’t go well. It was the straight talking points about him not wanting a slipshod bill and taking the time to get it right and blah, blah, blah.

At least I was able to express my righteous indignation.

I don’t think we’re quite there yet. There’s really not much to protest at this point. We’re trying to get legislation done, and keep it moving, not drive people out of office (which is what protests are best at doing). If the lobbyists manage to undermine healthcare reform, derail the momentum, and cause this process to fail, that’s when the whole country needs to be prepared to take to the streets.. not that I’m optimistic that will happen.

slinkerwink’s diary is FULL of things we can be doing to pressure them to stay

Names, Ph Numbers, What To Say If You Need It, – s’all there ‘dogs

Bills don’t get “improved” later. More likely fighting to retain the good things in the bill in the first place.

It’s not Obama that has to wise up, it’s the Senate Democratic Caucus.

dakine’s right here. We have one shot at getting something we can all live with. As with the last time healthcare reform got derailed, nobody’s going to want to touch whatever system comes out of the present debate for another generation. It’ll be that politically painful.

Well if they are going on recess to “meet with their constituents”, let’s make sure that our own Congresscritters actually meet with their constituents.

Seems to me that the efficacy of calling or emailing our “reps” is about zilch.

could it have anything to do with the Netroots being a safe bloc, who can be assumed to always vote (D), no matter what?

naah, what an outlandish notion.

Sounds like a serious structural problem with the system then. A program with so many unknowns as this should have a limited lifetime, and the end of which an improved version goes into effect.

If Harry Reid caves and removes the public option from the bill to placate Gurney Joe, the republicans (none of whom are going to vote for ANY health care reform plan) and the democrats that are owned by the Insurance lobby, then it would take 60 votes to put it back in. That’s not going to happen.

I just wish that they could feel this on a visceral level the way that so many of us do.

oh I agree.. which is why we need to do the impossible: give the man a backbone and cure his Arlenitis. As for Joe, his constituents need to organize some burning effigies, pitchforks and torches every time he visits the home state. Insufferable.

The Prez is a wuus.He held a Prime Time News Conference & he should have siezed the moment & urge the congress to forego their vacation but he did no such thing.

Don’t you mean “When Harry Reid caves…” not “if”?

I just wish Reid would get the hell out of the way and let someone take over that has principles and a willingness to fight for those principles.

We have one shot at getting something we can all live with.

which is most emphatically not Obamacare, afterthought ‘public option’ or not.

“In my state,” testified Dr. Steffie Woolhandler of the Harvard Medical School last month before Congress, “beating your wife, communicating a terrorist threat and being uninsured all carry $1,000 fines.”

Based largely upon the failed model in place in Massachusetts since 2006, the Obama plan will require employers to provide coverage or pay a special tax. Everybody not covered by an employer will be required to purchase insurance under penalty of law, in much the same manner as you’re currently required to buy car insurance.

making crappy high-deductible plans compulsory???

thats what the logic of Least-worstism leads to, and lots of people are seeing through that.

Do we have any political weapons to use on Joe and worst of the other Senate Dem malingerers?

Who did they get that from, Lieberman?

They’ve been working on this for months. They’re never going to make the GOP happy, and that’s what Reid is saying they will try to do.

That’s a question that would have been asked Karl Rove in the previous regime. I personally would not advocate going down that route.

I’m going to keep asking this until you give an answer: what is your plan for a successful legislative strategy?

The people in our comments section do not cast votes in Congress.

Why do the Democrats keep Reid in the way if he’s not doing what they want? Perhaps he actually is.

I told them they’ve had about 60 years to work on this and he said that it was a huge overhaul and that it take time to get it right. I told them that I thought they had wasted a lot of time trying for bipartisanship that was obviously never going to happen and he said that it was important for all voices to be heard. He also said he didn’t know why I was concerned about Reid pulling the public option and that everything was on the table.

Very nice young man who could have been reading from a script.

so what are you suggesting? we just sit back and watch the gang of 4 bring destroy reform AND the party?

No, she didn’t:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) expressed optimism that health-care reform would be passed on time.

“We are moving forward,” she said at her weekly news conference on Capitol Hill. “We have a few issues that we are going to resolve, I believe, in the next 48 hours. We are on schedule.”

Later on, when answering a reporter’s question on the fate of the bill, Pelosi conveyed ironclad self-confidence.

“I am more confident than ever,” she boasted, adding, “When the bill is ready, we will go to the floor, and we will win.”

Thank you for that.

This to me qualifies as an emergency situation–look at what Jane said at the bottom of her petition signature request:

“Members of Congress are trying to delay health care reform by waiting until after the August recess. They want three weeks of vacation before they tackle reforming health care.

You know what will happen in those three weeks of vacation?

* 143,250 people will lose their health insurance coverage [pdf]
* 53,507 people will file for bankruptcy because they can’t pay their medical bills
* 1,265 people will die [pdf] because they lack coverage

So, Congress – is that worth your vacation? We need action now. We can’t afford to wait.”

I just called my 2 senators and 1 representative and gave it to them with both barrels, using Jane’s stats. The poor phone answerers had nothing to say after that. Those stats would also make an excellent op-ed for any local paper.

You mean stomping your feet and holding your breath until you get exactly what you want doesn’t work?

You’re probably right, but I’m trying not to go from furious and depressed to suicidal. :)

Thanks for taking action. It’s really important.

Got an email for this rolling freak show today:

http://www.teapartyexpress.org/

This is the stuff that’s going to greet members of Congress in their districts in August.

I’m thinking it hasn’t worked in 30 years, that might be an indication that a game plan change is needed.

Actually, most Americans didn’t like the war protesters, even though they agreed with them politically. Sad but true. In fact, the war protesters may have irritated enough Americans to get them to elect Nixon in 1968.

he is.

and in reply to Jane Hamsher -

I gave a reply yesterday – that I would take some time and work up an answer as concise and sound as I could, but,

also

“don’t you realize that demanding a fully realized counterplan from your critics is the very same tactic supporters of Bush’s wars used so frequently?

and so the inability to suddenly produce a fully realized counterplan on complete withdrawal from Iraq that would give everyone a pony was taken as an endorsement of the status quo?

but those paying attention could realize that just because Scott Ritter does not have a plan to give everyone in the M.E. a pony does not mean he is wrong.

so – Obamacare, based in many ways on the reform undertaken in Massachusetts by Republican George Romney, as your longtime commenter Selise has documented – makes health insurance mandatory

why is that worth whipping for?

questions like these seem to always go unanswered . . .

In ‘68, Nixon said that he had a secret plan to end the war. He failed to mention that it would take six years.

Exactly.

When the civil rights movement organized marches, they were careful to have the marchers show up in their Sunday best, and not to have people with other causes or agendas hijack the march. When they were attacked, Americans watching the TV coverage saw well-dressed, unarmed, polite people being viciously attacked by dogs, water cannons, and the like. That engaged America’s sympathies for the victims.

Unfortunately, Dr. King was murdered before he could exert much influence over the antiwar movement — and in any event, it was harder for him to do as the group of antiwar protesters was of a different, younger and whiter crowd than the persons he’d successfully organized. The result: Incoherent messes that turned off the folks watching at home.

So what is your legislative game plan? Or do you continue to plan to help the Republicans split the progressive and Democratic factions, just as the GOP pays the Greens to do?

And people still re-elected him in 1972.

You’re the one that won’t answer the question.

Your plan — whether you realize it or not — is to kill any kind of legislation passing that could help those who don’t have health care right now. You just want a lot of people to die so things will get really bad there will be rioting in the streets and then Congress will have to pass something that’s up to your purity standards.

That’s your plan, it’s the only one you’re pouring all your energy into, and you’re in here every day working to make it happen. And you don’t want to “take the time” to come up with another one? Because what, this one is working out so well?

in ‘68, the Democrats nominated Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr, who vowed to continue the lovely Vietnam war until the light at the end of the tunnel arrived.

ever since, the Democrats have a long track record of nominating lackluster centrists and losing, with the exception of Bill Clinton, the man from Hope, who proceeded to jam NAFTA through Congress, and cut down more trees in our public lands than Reagan and Bush combined, among many other aaccomplishments.

I think it’s about time Obama and the Democrats started using deliberately provocative and strident language about the Republicans. Republicans accuse Democrats of “not being honest” and “wanting to destroy America / capitalism / babies” every time they’re on TV, and there are NO REPRECUSSIONS for them. They get invited right back!

So I say, if Harry Reid has reasons for wanting to delay, don’t frame them as wanting to be nice to Republicans, stupid! Frame them as “We need time to deal with the obstructionism and dishonesty of the Republicans. We’d have healthcare by now for everyone, and ponies too, only the Republicans have stolen all the money and tracked mud on all the carpets and they smell, too!” I guarantee this would have a more positive effect than the pathetic weakling routine that Canvas-Back Reid has shown to date.

Similarly, I see nothing wrong with Obama getting a headline that reads “OBAMA: REPUBLICANS ‘HATE AMERICAN CHILDREN’” rather than “OBAMA: POLICE ACTED ‘STUPIDLY’”… Bipartisanship is a great idea, Mr. President — why not invoke it while getting a dig in at the Republicans instead of trying so hard to make nice with them?

Unless it’s all kabuki to give Obama a chance to show leadership. I wouldn’t know, not being an expert in kabuki.

That’s interesting. But by putting up their itinerary, perhaps anti-teabagger protesters will also show up at those events. How much weight do teabaggers carry with congresspeople?

whaa? your plan won’t be fully in effect ’till 2013 and beyond

“In fact, a timeline of the 1,000-page health care bill crafted by House Democrats shows it would take the better part of a decade — from 2010-2018 — to get all the components of the far-reaching proposal up and running.”

http://www.google.com/hostedne…..AD99ICP600

and you wave the bloody shirt of the uninsured???

Incidentally, the civil rights movement is a disproof of the tendentious notion idea that some legislation, any legislation has to be passed this year. All great movements, like abolition, women’s suffrage, union organizing, were multi-year projects. They weren’t ever “pass it this year, or lose the chance forever” at all. I understand why people driven by midterms might think that way, but as long as the need is there, the drive to get the need met will continue.

and you had an M.D. on the front page earlier today, Dr. Geyman

who said:

Unfortunately, the incremental “reforms” being built into bills in Congress are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

http://firedoglake.com/2009/07…..suscitate/

did you go on there and denigrate him?

Of course, if progressives had started using their big megaphones last year for the best policy, instead of the complex, unproven, Rube Goldberg-esque and second best policy we’re being stuck with now, we’d all be better off, now wouldnn’t we? Too bad about that.

…not being an expert in kabuki.

Or in “leadership” apparently, since America’s first melanin-enhanced President has been showing incredible leadership all along. Perhaps the “Obama needs to…” crowd could actually learn a thing or two from someone who has accomplished so much all ready? Just a wacky thought…

It wasn’t that simple. Humpherey was not just a Johnson clone and never made such a vow. Johnson is the one who actually used the phrase “light at the end of the tunnel”, possibly as early as ‘67.

the lessons of 1968, whatever they may be, are not resolved, and are indeed relevant today.

I’m eagerly awaiting responses to my #70 and #72, I’m sure they’ll be along any minute.

in reply to lambertstrether at #73 – its what they always do.

Hmm… Ezra Klein says that all the cost savings* for the means-tested and ghettoized “public plan” are “speculative.” Does that make Ezra a “purity troll”?

I do understand, and sympathize with, the frustration that public option advocates must feel at having to advocate for a policy that they know in their hearts and minds is inferior; but let’s not take out that frustration on the commenters, eh?

* Even though “cost savings” have been at the heart of the Democrats framing so far. Too bad we can’t go with the proven solution…

Main lesson of ‘68: don’t elect Republics. Sad that we have to keep relearning that one.

“Incredible,” perhaps. Good?

1. $15 trillion for the banksters with no new regulation

2. No accountability on torture

3. No rollback of Bush executive power grab (for example, state secrets privilege)

4. No help on housing, mortgage modifications a complete fail

5. DADT still in place.

I could go on, but “incredible” is exactly what this is, after electing a Democrat.

Glenn Greenwald had a whole “strange bedfellows” drive that used exactly that tactic. So what’s your point?

IIRC Jane advocated during the election that Dems needed to learn to pivot and attack. I would dearly love to see someone use such a technique with the Blue Dogs, along the lines of… “If you are so concerned about cost savings, why aren’t you pushing hard for single payer, the most cost effective solution to the problem?”. The squirming that would ensue would be fun to witness…

What’s “universal” about a plan that leaves 10 million out?

but they even had a dreaded splitter to their Right in ‘68, George Wallace (neé of the Democratic Party) who siphoned off voters for whom Nixon was too wimpy.

your assertion as to the main lesson is rather debatable, but hey, we can save it for a slow day.

I’m still eagerly awaiting responses to my #70 and #72, I’m sure they’ll be along any minute.

phred writes:

“If you are so concerned about cost savings, why aren’t you pushing hard for single payer, the most cost effective solution to the problem?”

Works for the public option folks too, with one slight modification:

“If you are so concerned about cost savings, coverage, and justice, why aren’t you pushing hard for single payer, the best solution to the problem, according to Nancy Pelosi?”

I hate to say it, and y’all can feel free to beat me up for sayin’ it, but politically its a lot easier to plug (or blub) a blatent gap in coverage in a plan (a group of people left out) with subsequent legislation than it is to resurrect a failed initiative or to amend a system that is structurally flawed for everybody (say one without any concept of a public option – even one that is phased in over time and initially ineffective). OK, now all you purists can feel free to beat me up ;-)

Sigh. I realize you are on a mission here, but my point was to take advantage of the stupidity of the Blue Dog argument and to use it to hoist them on their own petard.

Someone, somehow, has to shame them into acting like Dems rather than Reps. Like you, I think single payer is best, but since we are clearly not making headway with the single payer argument with our friends, lets use it to bludgeon our enemies, shall we? At least it would be fun.

Well spoken.

hmmm, I just went through the earlier thread:

http://firedoglake.com/2009/07…..suscitate/

and nowhere on there does Jane Hamsher castigate Dr. Geyman for saying:

Unfortunately, the incremental “reforms” being built into bills in Congress are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

and tell him:

You just want a lot of people to die so things will get really bad there will be rioting in the streets and then Congress will have to pass something that’s up to your purity standards

.

I wonder why? what a puzzle.

and then, when I raise this question at #72, she goes away.

and just because I won’t share my secret plan to save the world, which every commenter who is profoundly critical of the Democratic Party must carry on their person at all times.

The cost savings of the public plan are no more speculative than the expenditures.

My call to Blue Dog Rep Mike Micheaud from ME went the same way. He wants it to be done right. Taking care of rural areas.

The repubs had no problem with submitting legislation to the dems right before a vote was required so they had no way of actually reading the bill.

hey Tom, maybe go back a couple of threads and weigh in with the good Doctor who has the chutzpah to say:

Unfortunately, the incremental “reforms” being built into bills in Congress are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

and tell him:

You just want a lot of people to die….etc

.

of course, he’s written a book with support for what he says, and you have zilch, but go ahead and get on the record.

Alas that “well spoken” is not the same as “well reasoned”…

Tarheel dem writes:

The cost savings of the public plan are no more speculative than the expenditures.

Please read Ezra, at the original link. It’s not that the quantities are not known (although they are not). It’s that their efficacy is unknown. That’s because the Democrats haven’t chosen a plan that can be shown to work, based on past experience.

It’s a sign of the degraded state of “progressive” discourse that advocating for a policy that’s been shown to save both money and lives, based on past experience, is called “purism,” and advocating for a policy that has not been shown to save either, is called “pragmatism.”

Hey, friends are as friends do. (Who was it who said, more or less, “If you want a friend in politics, get a dog?”) Anyhow, if progressives want to be friends with single payer folks, they could do stuff like whipping to make sure that individual states can experiment with it (the Kucinich amendent — which IIRC several Republicans voted for, on … wait for it… States Rights grounds. Strange bedfellows, eh?)

Of course, with single payer, there wouldn’t be any issue with “rural areas” — “Everybody in, nobody out.” Too bad progressives weren’t advocating for the policy they know in their hearts and minds is best when there was still time.

Excuse my crudeness … BUT *FUCK* Harry Reid and the horse he rode in on. And while we are at it the same goes for the racist republics AND the blue dogs. I’ll be busy, I guess.

I am so fed up with this shit. Yeah, a $1,000 page bill will be full of crap BUT with the dysfunctional congress, if nothing gets passed it’s over. If something get’s passed with some public option, at least there’s hope.

You people have NO idea. I could not afford to move back to the states IF I could get coverage now. And you pay tens of thousands of dollars EVERY year to be gamed by insurance corporations, directly or in ”benefits” instead of wages. And it sounds like people think it’s unAmerican to NOT pay these fees.

I would have to go without insurance. I manage just fine in Canada NOT in servitude to health insurance. I have a *hope* of supporting myself in retirement.

I really hate to say it because I know people need their health care but I’m thinking this won’t change as long as people are willing to participate and pay this way.

I just hope Harry just got himself on Barry’s shit list.

And what the hell is with all the racism? Getting ugly, much?

Oh, and while I’m ranting, I forgot:

I burst into flames everytime I forget to forget that $1.3T was spent on Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy and there are 2 wars going on (one a VANITY WAR) and $2T? and counting on the bailouts.

And something for the peeps and the real economy has to cost ZERO????

Are you freaking kidding me????

Illness never takes a vacation. Emergency rooms don’t get to take a vacation.

Don’t go to the beach house, Senators. Don’t fly away to the junkets. Don’t come home for dog and pony shows. Stay. Work Get the job done. With the public option.

Too bad progressives weren’t advocating for the policy they know in their hearts and minds is best when there was still time.

(D) captured ‘progressives’ have in their hearts and minds what their Leaders tell them to have in there, and are able to revise as needed.

It’s simply tiresome now. The comments here have been dominated by these exact same things you’ve said for months (and years when it comes to other issues about Obama). Complete ignoring of the positives and the debate about how to get legislation passed with a corrupt Congress, many of them self-proclaimed Dems, and instead just repeat the same boogeymen ad nauseum, as if Obama can snap his fingers and correct these massive, institutional ills that have existed for decades and perhaps centuries in some cases.

Again, any thoughts on how to get even more Liberal policies passed with Harry Reid and other Clinton Dems proving they’re willing to stand in the way? Can you offer any constructive suggestions? “Bully pulpit” arguments have proven to be false already, so anything else?