Yeah, the bill is class warfare but large insurance companies that deny treatment to people or that bankrupt average Americans who happen to get sick…that’s just being neighborly.

Keep up the good work Jane. These disingenuous windbags are looking every which way for a way to sell out the public without having to pay a price. We need to make sure they pay a price. The CPC has sold us out on everything from TARP to the Supplemental to the Climate Change Bill. I read this morning that they caved on Card Check. And now bellying up to the public trough come the insurance companies and big pharma expecting huge payouts from taxpayers who will be compelled to buy insurance, without the cost savings provided by single payer. At this point, I remain to be convinced that the “Progressive Caucus” actually exists. I think it is a convenient ruse trotted out only during elections.

firedogs – pls read Scarecrow and Jason’s diaries on this “devastating blow” of CBO’s chair pronouncement -

it’s more premature than a gooper’s ejaculation – and looks like President Conrad called this guy in as pushback against WH pressure

Jason’s diary

Scarecrow’s diary

Both Andre Carson and Robert Wexler refuse to confirm that they are on the whip list and committed to vote against any bill that doesn’t have a public plan that meets the CPC criteria, even though CPC whip Diane Watson confirmed that that it was valid.

I don’t know anything about Carson, but this is a huge disappointment from Wexler.

Yes, it is class warfare: The corporate class is making war on the middle class in order to extract tribute from them in the form of higher and higher payments.

The insurance companies are taxing businesses and individuals: requiring increasing payments in return for diminishing services. It is taxation without representation, for those paying the tax have no say in how their money is spent.

Nelson also added that he favors strict constructionist judges, finding market solutions to our economic problems and opposes surrender in Iraq.

I hope Obama can feel Lieberman’s love.

fwiw – i talked with the very nice healthcare person in my rep’s dc office yesterday and was told that there was such a cpc letter, my rep had signed it and that it had been sent to the house leadership. however there was no public statement to be made yet and that meetings are on going.

i have no idea how to interpret this, and so did not bother to get a quote. the above is just my paraphrase, so take it with a truck load of salt (i may have misremembered or misunderstood)

If we’re going to win this fight, our side is going to have to get tougher.

like withdrawing all support from turncoat (D)’s, supporting challengers in the primary and 3rd party challengers?

c’mon, step up, or you’ll still be treated as doormats who will vote (D), no matter what.

Wonderful work Jane.

Our system is completely corrupt and obviously run by corporate interests. Congress critters are in the game for money and power and with few exceptions have and ethics or interest in the people or their constituents.

Over on C street you have a religious cult of whacko hypocrits who can keep the fly zipped who should be in jail not in congress.

This health care “debate” has removed the curtain from Oz and the people see that they matter not, it’s all about corporations and their shareholders bilking money from them.

Time for a second American revolution. This is not working.

You know, Elmendorf, the CBO guy? He’s not to be trusted!! He used to work for the Hamilton Project.

Throw them out and bring on term limits. We need to get rid of the dead wood and money is getting in the way.

The only way we get a public plan is if progressives take a stand and refuse to “compromise” with Ben Nelson over something 76% of the public wants.

Exactly right! Keep up the good work, Jane!

I loved this:
VIDEO: My Visit to DiFi’s

Kudos to you Jane. Keep her feet to the fire!

Your making waves and that’s a good thing – in case you missed this remark by Chuck Todd from Thursday’s Hardball:

MATTHEWS: Any way they are going to lose Dianne Feinstein?

TODD: I doubt it.

MATTHEWS: She’s worried about the fiscal chaos in California.

MARTIN: That’s a tough no vote.

(CROSS TALK)

TODD:If she goes against them, she will get Ned Lamonted and she will-she will get primaried the next time she’s up.

MATTHEWS: She’s enormously popular. Thank you, Chuck Todd.

TODD: Not in the Democratic-

MARTIN: Base of the party.

TODD: I would question that.

MATTHEWS: Well, thank you. In my base. Thank you, Chuck Todd. Thank you, Jonathan Martin. I’m allowed to play favorites. I love Dianne Feinstein. I like Barbara Boxer.

I understand now. “Class warfare” is defined as us fighting back against the corporate thievery to which we have been subjected for so long that the corporatists think it’s their just due. Sort of like the Repuke “tax increase” except that we are “increasing” taxes by allowing their exemption to expire.

The fact is that we (the middle class & poor) have been under siege for quite a long time (since Nixon, in fact), and any attempt to fight back is met with the shrieks and moans of “class warfare” by the fat cats. I for one am sick of it.

I’m also tired of this bull$$$$ about “revenue neutral.” If we can spend in the red for war, we can surely spend in the red for life & health!

Thanks for reminding us that the CBO’s Elmendorf sp? accusations were really personal opinion and not real math. Someone should have fired back that the House plan generates premiums income and reduces private insurance premiums through competition. Someone should have fired back that a single payer proposal would have cost even less by half. Someone should have fired back to Nelson that the only class war we little people see is coming at us from above, from rich cry-babies who never ever want to pay their taxes.

Class warfare tends to be asymmetric warfare.

“The only way we get a public plan is if progressives take a stand and refuse to “compromise” with Ben Nelson over something 76% of the public wants.”

76% is a bogus number. I would love to know the questions that were asked for this poll. The real number is less than 1/2 America supports national healthcare because first of all.. WE CAN’T AFFORD IT!!!. Secondly, just because you are an American does not mean you deserve nor have the right to free health care. You have the right to pursue happiness… (Which means go get a job and pay for it yourself, if that is what is important to you).

You libs are a bunch of fascists!

It’s affirmative action, Ben. It’s to counter the class warfare that conservatives of all political stripes have been waging since the Founding Fathers were America’s richest men.

Ben’s use of empty buzz words implies that America has no “classes”. We do, but based more on wealth than birth (though the two are connected). It implies that attempting to counter the power of the wealthy is a bad thing. Presumably, Ben is wealthy or well-paid by those who are. And he implies that citizens responsibly using their own government to better their own lives rather than those of businesses or the wealthy is irresponsible.

Mr. Nelson.Is.A.Tool.

I fear rationing of health care. If you’re under 50 you may not share this fear. Unfortunately I’m 60. Also I’m starting to see some disturbing tv ads (about rationing and big government).
Let’s stop the war spending and see what we can save and throw against health care for all.

I could not have said it better. We can not spend more than we have forever. Eventually the Chinese will put their foot down.
The 76% number is pure fabrication.

Dean Baker this morning points out that the CBO does not have a forecasting track record that favors taking them as The Truth of how a program will evolve; in fact they’ve missed some important calls badly in recent years. No doubt Dean too will have some more on this in coming days.

Class warfare tends to be asymmetric warfare.
At least, once the lower classes wake up.

oooh thankee – and, what a surprise

reminds me of the Village CW on Douglas Holz-Eakin when he ran OMB- that he was some “even handed genius” – and I’m sure everyone recalls him turning on the stoopid during last year’s campaign

What ever happened to noblesse oblige? Kind of died in the Senate.

Thank you for stopping by and exposing yourself.

one of the front pagers over at Big Orange:

“they only call it class warfare when we fight back!“

Welcome. In fact. Dr. Murphy wrote about the Hamilton Project here at FDL last year. Here:

http://firedoglake.com/2008/02…..c-vessels/

To Raven, Norske, or SD if they’re lurkin’:

Isn’t Torgo one of those incurable fungi one catches in the Nam?

It’s absolutely class warfare. Q. What happened to Ron Wyden?

Nelson, along with his congressional colleagues are some of the most gutless jerks I’ve ever witnessed. They have muddied the waters so much here I not sure if anyone will ever find a piece of legislation under this mat. Nelson and his assclown buddies need to get the hell out of the way and let people who know what they’re doing do what they do best…Nelson is useless..

calss warfare – nelson must be a republican because he is so good at those buzz-word fears and manipulations. wonder what he would say if he were oh…unemployed, without health care and a child or spouse sick. have decided our dear elected officials first and foremost priority is to get re-elected to stay in power and “grow their wealth.”

Note Bene: The Clinton “democrats” in Congress will oppose healthcare reform of any meaningful stripe forever as opposed to getting a bill passed now and amending it later, as required and appropriate, as time goes by. But beware the quality component. Ever tried to get an MRI in Canada as a Candian citizen under the “healthcare” program in Canada?

What happened to Ron Wyden ?

you may find an answer here:

his open secrets page

$22.4 from Blue Cross this cycle

$13.8 Pinnacle Healthcare

oh, and “Health/Professionals” were #1 on his Top 5 w/ $84.1 this cycle

Thank you for the clarification on the Hamilton Project. Application? Whenever THEY can take some important aspect of our daily lives and turn it on the cold and heartless turning machine of economic utilitarianism, they will and will justify depriving others of their rights. They have succeeded in rationing food, shelter and jobs and they would like to keep the locks on healthcare.

I just now caught this over at The Seminal to the effect that Dennis Kucinich has successfully sponsored a single-payer ammendment: http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/6420

The diarist views this development with alarm. I do not share that view.

Hey Ben,

How many farmers in NB get subsidies (ie: “Welfare”) from the US Government, care of THE US TAXPAYER?

Oh, that’s right, that’s different because YOU come from Nebraska and “need it” !!

Well, the UNinsured and those with pre-existing conditions in the Rest Of The States need Health Care Insurance – like you have in Congress.

It appears the voters in NB could care less about having health insurance! It also appears that NB won’t have a problem when all these farm “welfare” checks stop coming.

Well… here’s what I decided yesterday… after days of reading story after story of people being terrorized by companies they had faithfully paid into for years…

This is domestic terrorism… and really the crimes of insurance companies constitute crimes against humanity.

It’s time we start using the strongest terms possible to describe the terror people endure at their hands. It is reprehensible… 18,000 uninsured people die every year. The sad fact is they TRULY DON’T CARE IF PEOPLE DIE.

torgo, I’m 71, so I guess I understand your anxiety about your future health care. “Rationing”, however, is being used as a scare tactic by the opponents of health care reform. Unless you’re already on Medicare, your care is being rationed right now by for-profit insurance companies. I’d rather trust a government agency, like the one that runs Medicare, which I’m on now, than trust the profiteers. This country can afford quality health care for everyone. I agree that it would help enormously to cut war spending! And how about getting back some of the billions given away in tax cuts for the wealthy?

Class warfare?

well, duh.

our pediatrician says health care is already rationed. He went so far as to say we have no health care system.

Yep. Life is cheap here in America. I didn’t use to feel that way. But after the last eight years, I got the message.

the bill, which institutes a surtax on wealthy Americans to finance the $1 trillion bill, as creating “class warfare.”

we really MUST stop calling these re-aquisitions “surcharge on the wealthy” and “taxing the rich”

they are neither

reagan and bush gave middle class assets to the wealthy, usually funded through the social security surplus

we really need to frame this correctly;

“social security was invested in the middle class as some kind of revenue investment

that investment returned negative dividends and we now must redirect those funds back to where they came”

it really is rediculous that democrats aren’t calling this “removing the tax deductions for the wealthy that caused this economic melt down”

it’s all about framing and as long as we allow the republicans to frame our methods we will fail

Dennis-the-K’s call to action on behalf of single-payer: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..-to-Action

Tools like this should not have this much power over the lives of Americans. Obama needs to put his shoe directly into this guy’s ass now.

Mr. Nelson is happy for the haves in this class war. He doesn’t want the have nots to fight in it, just to accept their lot.

Yes! They’re beating us over the head as usual with “big government” and “raising taxes!” The media often don’t even describe it as taxes on the wealthy; we see headlines like “Democrats Raising Taxes” (YOUR taxes). We haven’t had a lot of success in fighting back against those tactics in the past, and it’s difficult to interject any nuance whatsoever into the debate. I just hope the need and demand for affordable health care, and Obama’s popularity can over-ride the scare tactic ads. We need Democrats developing and sticking to simple, genuine frames that make sense to voters, although it’s a bit late for that, and we’re fighting against decades of Reagan frames drummed into people’s heads, including a lot of Democratic Congressperson heads.
btw, Nelson’s complaint about starting a class war is as if Rumsfeld would exclaim today that Iraq is “starting a war!” with the US.

Yep, “let’s scare’m into staying the course”. that’s the tactic all right. I would love to hear from the good folks of ND to see what they are thinking about Nelson and BlueCross etc.

It was so interesting to watch the pol in Jane’s video. She really got his attention when she started talking about $$$. It’s pretty simple to figure them out.

It sounds like the senator may be getting paid more by the insurance and pharma companies than he is with his day job? This might be against the law if this were a nation of laws, Senator. I wonder how your constituents feel about your selling them out?

Nelson: don’t fight
Jane: fight tough

I’m with Jane.

There are 2 things I’d like to see before getting behind the healthcare plan:

1. The government prove it can actually pull -anything- off, much less something of this magnitude.

2. The American public prove they actually care about this by volunteering to shoulder some of the expense. At the moment, at least according to the video at http://www.newsy.com/videos/th….._new_plan, the plan is to only tax people with over $280,000 to fund this.

While that may make sense to some, let me put it in perspective. You presumably have some kind of budget so you know you can survive until your next paycheck. Rich people are no different. They just use bigger numbers. But if the government screws with their money, they’ll have to cut back, just like you’d have to cut back if the government took more money from you.

You may say, “Oh, they lose their private jet and personal island. What a hardship.” but you also spend money on things you don’t really need. Anyone who’s been to Starbucks, for instance. Or who watches TV for fun. My point is, we all feel we have our “rights” to things. Some people fly jets, some people watch TV.

They have their right to their money just like the rest of us do. So if we’re really serious about helping, let’s all pitch in instead of shrugging it off and saying “Someone else will pay for it.” I wouldn’t say it’s “class warfare” but it sure is antagonistic to a specific class.

Re: Homeless

——————————————————————————–

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDRfollower
Hi everyone.

I’m semi-homeless at the time, and without adequate means of getting online. So, for the time being. I’m going to disappear from the board. I’ll see you all later.

I’m sorry to hear that.
I’ve got an idea………..
Make a film about how the workingperson is screwed by the F.I.C.A. tax.

How every cent of the social security portion (6.2%) left over in The S.S. fund, goes into the general fund so the “upper class” can have tax breaks!

How 6.2% of every (accounted) unspent dollar up to $106,800 is stolen from the Social “SECURITY” “INSURANCE FUND” from the very people that need it the most!

How more than likely 6.2% will be quickly reduced when everyone shares the SAME burden………………

Quote:
Public Healthcare could easily be paid by taking the cap off F.I.C.A.
Why must the people who can least afford it, have .062 cents taken out of every dollar they earn? :

Quote:
The F.I.C.A. tax is capped at $106,800 for 2009!
1.45% goes towards medicare and 6.2% goes to Social Security.
1.45% x $106,800 =s $1548.60
6.2% x $106,800 =s $6621.60
7.65% x $106,800 =s $8170.20

If a person earns $10,680,000 that person pays $6,621.60 to S.S.! Not $662,160!
If a person earns $106,800,000 that person pays $6,621.60 to S.S.! Not $6,621,600!
If a person earns $1,068,000,000 that person pays $6,621.60! Not $66,216,000!
$10,680,000,000 would pay $6,621.60 Not $662,160,000!
How much would Bill Gates pay?

Considering the fact that all unused money in every fiscal year goes into the general fund, an IOU goes into a file, the middle income taxpayer gets the shaft!
As a matter of fact, we keep hearing social security and medicare is GOING BROKE!

My mouse is out of commmision so I copy & pasted the last remark so I would not lose the fact that I’ll settle for taking the cap off F.I.C.A. and spare the uber riche……..
; )

1. Medicare
2. We’re already shouldering the expense.
I agree that we may have to persuade you that paying a little more in taxes and getting health care for everyone is better a better deal than paying gazillions for insurance and not getting the care we need but going bankrupt, or not being able to get insurance or care at all.
And the wealthy may view it as “their money” but a lot of it came from corporate profits made by denying health care to people, from de-regulating and irresponsibly ruining the financial sector for their profit, from humongous government bailouts of corporations, and from Bush’s tax cuts. Policies like that have led to their wealth vastly increasing out of all proportion to the growth in the economy. They don’t need empathy.
Of course we’ll all pay for government services.

If there were a real class war Nelson would be walking up the steps to the guillotine.

Term limits? Absolutely!!!

Good point.
I’m only 60 so I have a ways to go until Medicare. I am covered by the state’s high risk insurance (I’ve had open heart and prostate cancer surgery). I have been impressed with the care so far.

Glad you got into the high risk pool, torgo, and that you’re getting care. A lot of people are on long waiting lists for it. I hope you recover well. It’s a long haul.

People like Nelson are all in favor of class warfare when the uberrich are winning it. It is only now that we have the slightest suggestion that tables might someday turn that these types start whining about all being in this together.

If the economy is going where it appears to be going, Nelson and his friends should be scrambling to molify the underclass. They shouldn’t further antagonize it by drawing lines in the sand for banks, insurers, and the wealthiest few. Health care and tax equity might go a long way toward fixing the economy and dissipating middle-class anger. Opposing these vital causes is the best way possible to bring about some real class warfare.

It isn’t a hostile act of war against a class when we make a change in policies that have overwhelmingly favored the wealthy for decades. It’s actually just a minor correction.

We Americans must unite and let all politicians know loud and clear we will not allow or tolerate their politics as usual.
The house of representatives make it very hard to e mail them. Many will not accept communication from anyone not in their district even though their votes and actions affect us all.
We cannot let big business and the republicans win!!