More socialist propaganda isn’t it?
Yes, there are people dying while waiting for health care everywhere….especially in Canada which so many of you hope the US can emulate.

Have you figured out yet what value insurance companies add to patient care?

Single payer frees up a lot MORE money for physicians, nurses, hospitals, medical technologsts, allied professionals, pharmaceutical companies, and medical device providers, so they can COMPETE up and down the health care supply chain.

Can you ask Rahm to send someone who at least reads the post? All you do is bill Rahm for pasting in the same tired cliches.

Great catch Scare, thanks.

This is probably a big part in the constellation of reasons/motivations behind Palin’s resignation.

What’s really sad is that I doubt this even entered her calculation.

You’re probably right.

And she and McCain got 47% of the popular vote.

I’d rather have the French System, so you’re wrong on all counts.

PS: Hey Kids! Click “>here> for an application to work for Senator Grassley – so you can have the same quality health care he enjoys – on our dime!

One step ahead of the posse…

I wonder how many of her fingerprints are this in terms of personal involvement in screwing this up so badly.

Strike One.

LINK HERE

Yeah, you’re right. You caught us. We’re all working for Lenin. Well..until we die while waiting for medical treatment, anyway.

So how much are you being paid to spout this drivel, anyway? And are the payments in cash? Wire transfer to an offshore account? What? Just wondering.

More socialist propaganda isn’t it?
Yes, there are people dying while waiting for health care everywhere….especially in Canada which so many of you hope the US can emulate.

Well, if that’s the case, then why is the successful birthrate higher in Canada than is the US? Why is the average life span in Canada measurably longer in the US? Beginning to end, that about covers it, and you, trollish one.

I hear the sound of another shoe dropping.

Yeah, and we’re all Socialists, too – Enjoy your clean drinking water, working traffic signals, fire and police protection and public schools. you can thank Karl Marx later.

I think they’re called wading boots.

You betcha! And I think we’re all going to need them before this is over to trek through all the BS sure to spew from her mouth.

torgo2009 is afraid that s/he may have to get in line for health care like the rest of us.

Yeah, some people will wait longer. But a whole hell of a lot more people will have life saving access to the most very basic healthcare. Which is worse?

Because Canada has far fewer people than the US…and far fewer deadbeats.

I actually pay for my health care as opposed to the many freeloaders out there in Fantasy Land.

In France nothing works. Neither do the people.

That’s my point. You are obviously one of the lucky few who can afford health care. Do you ever wonder what it would be like be sick and not be able to see a doctor?

Nevermind. I hate it when I feed the trolls. *sigh*

Let me guess, that 2 1/2 year period corresponds with or substantially overlaps Ms. Palin’s tenure as Alaska’s governator. Let them die, so I can campaign.

Whassamattuh with grossly mismanaging Medicare and Medicaid programs that shouldn’t exist anyway, tell me that whydontcha?

This is Ms. Palin’s nut, it’s her mismanagement or inattention that allowed so many Alaskans to suffer needlessly. This is what McCan’t-Palin would have given us nationwide.

Not much of a performance standard for Obama to hurdle. I recommend his agencies continue their audits and enforce penalties and mandate reforms so that seeking assistance they are entitled to is not a death sentence for Alaskans. But I don’t recommend Mr. Obama use this as a standard to gauge his own performance, nor that he use Bush-Cheney’s performance as a model to sandbag us with how well he claims to be doing. Anyone who obeys the law can do better than a criminal, whether or not that criminal is indicted.

Give me free health care….give me free college…..give me a free iphone…give me a free paycheck…..give me a free….I think you get the message.

Wow you travel a lot, don’t you? Or do you just watch a lot of FOX news?

torgo -

You may be on to something. Alaska is the most socialist state in the Union. It is the only one in which the state owns the mineral resources and not the individual property owners. This allows the Governor to hand out fat checks to all all Alaskans, who did nothing to earn it.

Of course, the landowners whose property was confiscated are mostly native Alaskans, and so don’t count in her equation.

The “free” part misses out on the taxes paid to pay for such things because they contribute to a healthier, more productive, a more efficient and happier population. Free, taxpayer paid bail-outs that would sink an aircraft carrier made banksters happier, but entrenched their inefficiencies and predatory practices. As for “free”, howzabout Mr. Bush’s unpaid for wars. Cutting taxes made him popular with the haves, but it didn’t do much to pay for his turn at the roulette wheel now did it?

Be sick and not see a doctor? Sure, I’ve thought about that and believe it will happen if we overload the health care system. Just because you pay for health insurance doesn’t mean you’ll get it (if the system is over loaded).
There is not one uninsured person in the country who doesn’t know where the closest emergency room is located. No hospital dares turn away these people (nor should they).
Again, look at Canada. People die waiting for cancer surgery.

That sounds like Russia.

Oh, the French and the Dutch for that matter work very hard when they’re on the job. Unlike drones here, they also insist on tending to their own needs, for which the pay considerable taxes to support, and stop working for the Man. It’s called having a life, and demanding that it include promoting their own general welfare as well as that of their employer. The educational system and employers here work hard to create the myth that that’s “bad”. For whom, they don’t say.

But we didn’t hear a peep out of Governor Sarah Palin about this scandal while she was explaining why she’s bailing out or going fishing.

I remember hearing a duck quack.

This must be part of the heap of trouble she was in, when she decidered to leave the building in a rather big hurry.

And lets not forget rationing. I’ve seen the schedule. X number of lung cancer surgeries for the age group 60-64…..Y number for the group 65-69….
It’s easy to be in favor of free health care if you are young and healthy.

Like sad4america we’ve got ourselves another hit-and-run troll. This one’s hot for socialists, the 19th century boogeyman, though.

I thought all you free market types would actually advocate a level, fair and competitive playing field, What’s wrong with introducing another player, exactly? Afraid price-fixing won’t be quite so easy to accomplish?

It should be clear (even to the most obtuse) that the current system is unsustainable. If you have a better solution, we’re all ears.

torgo,

I hate to be the one to introduce some facts into your rant, but NPR published a detailed conparision of the health care systems in many countries. France spends about ~1/2 of what we do, has universal coverage, free choice of doctors, and pays for medications based on their effectiveness. As one who lived in France for two years, I can tell you that their system does work.

I will agree that the French are less workaholic than Americans, and prefer lots of holidays and vacations. You can consider that a knock, or evidence of a more civilized nation.

Alaska is not Russia. Russia is the place that Palin can see from her front porch. Remember?

No. No payments. I don’t need the cash.
I’d just as soon keep my cash and not play Santa Claus.
Get my drift?

I follow. Hey…aren’t you supposed to be listening to Rush or something right now? After all, he does have all the answers.

At the risk of feeding the troll – As a self-employed person I am currently paying about $1300 per month to provide health insurance for myself and my family – over $15,000 per year – an amount that I believe you would agree almost qualifies as extortion. I am hoping a public option becomes available because my contribution through taxes would have to be lower.

I will look at it.
I think the French have it right on vacations.

No, I back Obama.

Bingo! Overall, the check is going to be less, not more. Duh.

Glad you pointed this out. I thought it was shocking when I read it this morning, but not surprising. This program is certainly one that the administration (supposedly) oversaw.

But, let’ face it: it isn’t much fun to sit up in Juneau seeing to the needs of scruffy ol’ poor people who depend on you when you could be flitting about the Lower 48 having adoring fans tell you how great you are.

Palin’s dereliction of duty in this case is a lot more serious than her cheesy ethical lapses in converting state funds & public employees’ time for personal purposes (which she does in nearly every way yet conceived by sleazy, pompous politicians).

The “other shoe,” as it were, appears to be her complete abdication of responsibility.

Of this much we now can be confident: when Palin claimed she was quitting because it would be good for Alaska, she was right.

The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

This was going on while she was battling David Lettermann re: his inappropriate remarks. Maybe if she had been paying attention to state issues…..

The troll overlooks the fact that FDL has several Canadian commenters who speak from first hand knowledge instead of talking points.

I will cheerfully pay my share of additional taxes to get guaranteed health care now and when I retire soon and when I’m old and living on a pension.

Well, she probably quit because she figured the nasty liberal media would get all partisany and report this.

Ms. Palin is a classic example of the Peter Principle. Looks and verve, ruthlessness, unbridled ambition and a get-even attitude took her to the top of state government in a state with few people and little government. She was noticed and groomed for national office, but couldn’t or refused to learn. She preferred to swim in her small pond, not the big, bad ocean where hungry competitors and supporters alike snap at you.

Turns out, she couldn’t manage what little she was asked to do in Alaska. I’d say we came within a few million votes of all of us being treated like elderly Alaskans. Ms. Palin, like George Bush, knew how big the pile was that she was leaving behind. As with Mr. Bush, her narcissism makes her comfortable leaving it for someone else to clean up.

Her sense of entitlement, too, dwarfs that of the mythic welfare queen of GOP fables. Ms. Palin still thinks she’s entitled to millions in Reichwing Welfare and another shot at the title.

I don’t think anybody anymore believes she coulda been a contender, except hacks like David Brooks and Ross Douthat. I suspect the spin that comes out to blunt this scandal will be as energetic as McConnell’s support for Sen. Ensign.

You’ve got me beat. I pay $1,250.15 per month. But it has been worth it. I hardly consider it extortion. Why would a company cover a sicky for nothing?
Also, as a self employed you get a giant write off on those big premiums.

Republic’s think that you should have worked harder to be born wealthy. Bush did it. So why not you?

The delays in Canada have little bearing on what would happen if we adopted a Canadian system for health care payment. For many years, Canada underinvested in its health care facilities and system. Hence the delays: too much demand for too few facilities and doctors. Obviously, most of the US does not share this problem: some health economists believe we have overinvested in our health infrastructure – for example, expensive, sophisticated equipment such as CT scan machines are available even in some relatively small health care facilities.

So a troll is someone who disagrees with you?

And why the hell aren’t we banning the repeat offender trolls? How many threads are we going to let be hijacked before the mods step in?

The ability to recite conservative dogma is the only qualification Republic voters value. Unfortunately, the ability to govern matters little to them. Hence, people like Palin and Bush will continue to prosper in that Party.

I would gladly forego the adjustment to my gross income on my tax return to have more capital to invest in my business.

I do not oppose changing the system. Let’s just not move to fast.
More hospitals than ever will be required to treat those with no insurance in the US.

Of this much we now can be confident: when Palin claimed she was quitting because it would be good for Alaska, she was right.

One of her few accurate or empathetic statements. I hope the state and feds tally the cost of cleaning up just this one mess.

Imagine what she could have done with eight years in the White House, one temper tantrum away from a stress-induced stroke or heart attack that would give her the presidency. You betcha we’re relieved she has receded from the political scene like a red tide finally moving offshore.

Me too.

Hospitals already are doing that in emergency rooms.

If they have any dying to do, let them do it now and decrease the surplus population.

It’s what Jesus would want.

-G

“Sure and steady” is a recipe intended to defeat reform, by predicting that other needs, other scandals, and greater resistance to it can be built up in the meantime.

It’s a strategy that wins the race only when the racetrack isn’t falling down around your ears. It’s only justified when the grand stands aren’t falling down around those in them. It’s not advice that would work well if the goal is to improve the delivery of health care or the way in which we pay for it.

Somebody else’s problem, eh Sarah?

No, a troll is a dinkweed who opens a statement accusing everyone on a site of being commies or Marxists.

You my friend are that dinkweed.

-G

It seems that Palin really has gotten herself in a pickle.

-user politics.com

Torgo, just curious, do you take care of the place while the Master is away?

It’s what Al Franken used to say all the time. conservatives like to talk about how government doesn’t work, then they get elected and prove it!

That would make room for the snowflake babies, treasured (but not birthed) by Republics.

No, trolls are the commenters who start off saying stuff like

More socialist propaganda isn’t it?

then proceed to parrot the lame talking points of the right while claiming to be either a progressive, liberal, Democrat, Obama supporter or all of these. If you want attention any rightwing blog will be happy to give you all you can handle.

on a related note -

another story getting no national press – hardships of rural/isolated Alaskans – suffering because of last winter’s dismal fishing season.

all the usual Palin suspects abound -

inattention to duties

cheerful spin

lies

Alaskans suffering

Palin, after almost eight weeks of inaction, and tons of media pressure, finally flew out to one of the villages. She arrived with two evangelical preachers, one of whom was Billy Graham’s son Franklin Graham, boxes of private sector food with religious messages inside, and a plate of homemade cookies for effect.

AK Muckraker

Or call into Limpy Limbaugh and parrot his parroting of Republic talking points.

Also, a system that guarantees payment for all people (like the single payer systems in most of the rest of the world) would, by definition, eliminate the problem of uninsured patients. The hospitals would be paid. Office visits would be covered so that emergency rooms would not be overloaded as they are now with the currently uninsured. Overall public health would be enhanced because preventative care would be more available.

Well I’d certainly like to call most of the comments something other than socialist propaganda but that’s just the way I see it.
I’m just as happy as the rest of you George W. is gone but let’s think things through.
Did anyone figure out how to pay for all of this? I mean other than soaking the rich…..

OK, that sounds good.

I can’t believe you bit on this pig.

With that group in the village, there must have been a prayer-fest to make it all better.

Exactly. She must have taken notes while observing Russia from her window. To be fair, the socialistic regulations have benn in place since statehood. The landowners initially got nothing for the these rights, and had do sue to get compensation.

RE: @30: Regarding rationing – we have it here and now, only the gatekeepers are in the insurance offices. Their primary interest is profit, not the patients’ health.

And, as in most of this thread, you are wrong about who would benefit more from a single-payer plan. In any voluntary plan “adverse selection” occurs. The young and healthy opt out, preventing the costs from being spread over the entire population. This raises the costs for those who need insurance.

RE: @26 on overloading the health system. The French and others concentrate on preventive care, which reduces the overall demand. For example, when my wife became pregnant with our daughter, she received a coupon book listing all the exams, etc. for prenatal care through the age 2. If she sought these services in timely fashion, the costs were paid 100% and we recieved a (very small) stipend to cover transportation costs, etc. This greatly reduced the overall cost of postnatal care.

For example, the hospital in which my daughter was born had the goal of eliminating premature births through prenatal care and limiting the mothers’ activities. They had essentially done so 35 years ago, except for the emergency transfers from other hospitals to this one – the primary obstetric center in the Paris area.

Speaking of health care in Canada, I’m having trouble with my eye again as a consequence of my recent attack of shingles. I stopped by the University of Montreal Eye Clinic to see if I might get an accelerated appointment. When I phoned (without indicating my condition) they told me late September or early October at the earliest. So I went to the front desk, explained my recent history, was seen immediately by a specialist, and given a referral to another specialist for a follow-up. The only reason I didn’t have a full examination (they scanned and photographed the affected ye) was that, not thinking I would be seen so quickly, I only brought my sun glasses.

By the way: the whole thing was free. Single payer or something like that. I dunno.

But it certainly got things moving didn’t it?????

Were you this concerned when Shrub borrowed a couple trillion to fund his wars knowing full well that the rich wouldn’t be paying for them, remember the tax cuts?, but that everybody else will?

I got nothing better to do at the moment.

I had the same thing a while back, take care.

Blue Texan has his regularly scheduled post up and ready for our perusal: “WSJ Editorial: The Government Doesn’t Fix Our Cars, So Why Should It Provide Universal Health Care?”

It’s pretty close to child abuse!

LOL

People die waiting for cancer surgery.

Very few compared to the US, where they can’t even get into a waiting line because they have no insurance.

The Decider famously, or infamously, said that everybody’s insured, just go to an emergency room.

Emergencies rooms don’t provide pre-natal care, they don’t provide end of life care or hospice, they don’t provide care for chronic conditions, they don’t treat cancer, they don’t give kids flu shots, the list goes on and on.

If the only health problems we had in the U.S. were broken arms and gunshot wounds, emergency rooms would be the only health care we’d need. But Torgo, if you want to have a substantive discussion about healthcare, all of us are more than willing to listen to opposing viewpoints. If you just want to spout Bushisms, go waste somebody else’s time.

Ditto

substantive discussion

Operative phrase. I’ve yet to see one who wanted to do anything but play run around the mulberry bush.

I’ve gotten much information here. I need to digest it.

Bushisms? I never voted for the guy.

Glad to have been able to inform. Hope you seek out more. Even the AMA has dropped its opposition to a public option. (They’re still wary of the effect of single-payer on their bottom line though.)

http://hss.alaska.gov/press/2008/director.htm

[Rebecca] Hilgendorf has broad professional experience in the fields of mental health, geriatrics, physical and developmental disabilities, and complex medical conditions. She began her career with Health and Social Services 26 years ago and has served Alaskans across the state in a variety of positions based in Palmer, Wasilla, Fairbanks and Anchorage.

Hilgendorf currently serves as a Commissioner on the Commission on Aging and is a licensed Nursing Home Administrator. She holds a bachelor of science degree in therapeutic recreation from the University of Florida and has completed all but the thesis required to obtain a master’s degree in special education through the University of Alaska.

great article, Scarecrow.

I’m not sure how much of this failed program is the current Governor’s direct fault. The shortfall in funds for looking at home care needs began under the Frank Murkowski administration, and was exacerbated by the legislature’s low funding of it. The cycle began around 2004-2005, before Palin was elected.

But it just got worse under Palin. I’ve heard a lot of stories from seniors about this, at events held by the Democratic Party in Alaska, involving seniors. It is good to see the Feds finally jumping in. That wasn’t unexpected, though. Details of these lawsuits had been kept pretty quiet, though, until Lisa Demer’s ADN article came out today.

Palin has been a bad influence on so many departments’ long-term planning. She requests Department Heads to only send her good news for her twitter. I wonder where or when she has expected them to give her the fucking truth?

A particularly alarming finding concerns deaths of adults in the programs. In one 2 1/2 year stretch, 227 adults already getting services died while waiting for a nurse to reassess their needs. Another 27 died waiting for their initial assessment, to see if they qualified for help.

How do those numbers compare to other states? To the pre-Palin era?

Sorry to tether your flights of fantasy to some heavy facts, which can be an inconvenient burden.

Remember that “everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” – Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Signing off for now. “Discuss among yourselves.”

??????????????

Don’t be so sure you know all the facts either or you might be surprised…or at least disappointed.

Well, for an executive paying the slightest attention, 2 1/2 years is a long time not to slow the decay or turn it around. Such programs consume significant amounts of state budgets and directly affect the lives of many citizens.

Which means that had the program been running smoothly, it would be a line item on her business agenda. If the program already had a history of significant troubles – such that its audit resulted in the worst grade in the country – it ought to have been a topic on every cabinet meeting with detailed follow-ups so that just this sort of scandal were avoided.

So much of the scandal aspect of this could relate to her apparent Sgt. Schultz, know-nothing, do-nothing mentality, at least where it’s about program that did not promote her aspirations to higher office.

Had she not resigned, even Alaskan Republicans, let alone Democrats and ordinary citizens hurt by this mismanagement would have shouted for her impeachment. The resulting investigations of this program – and defending a legitimate rising tide of lawsuits – would have consumed substantial resources. Might they also have led to the discovery of yet further problems with her “stewardship” of state government?

Leave it to the WSJ to conflate apples and guavas to muddy the public policy waters. The government takes a significant stake in public transportation, without which businesses, goods and people don’t run. Who does it think paid for the lion’s share of interstate roads, bridges, rail, airports and ports?

The government mandates minimal standards for safe vehicles, for mileage standards, and for their safe production and distribution. It regulates interstate commerce and freight charges.

Narrowing the issue to personal transportation vehicles of choice doesn’t much help their argument. How you get to work, be it moped, ten-year old Taurus or armored limo, doesn’t affect public health. It has no impact on schools, hospitals, public and private offices, the avoidance of pandemics or the maintenance of competitive levels of productivity by having a healthier, safer, more secure family lives.

The WSJ doesn’t much care what the government spends taxpayers’ money on, so long as it goes to the Right people, exactly the right people, and no one else – and that it get nothing back in exchange for it.