To the phones pups!

great stuff from Jane…the thing is I almost NEVER have to make any calls to MY congressman. Robert Wexler kicks ass

“you’ll never hear from us again.”

Why? Y’all going somewheres? ;)

I just got a ‘No’ from Congr Speier’s office – (staffer sounded inexperienced – made sure she wasn’t talking about the last supplmental vote)

Polis’ Office: – ‘we are unauthorized to speak for the Congressman at this time’

cbl: fine. “please let the good congressman know we have his back and will continue to support his principled vote against open ended war”

note: thought Honda was a ‘No’ – did he go all hopey-changey over the week end ??

I’ve never seen Betty McCollum, MN-4 on this list or on Democrats.com lists. What’s up with her?

I just got off the phone with Jim McDermott’s office, and the young man who answered the phone said that, although he could not speak for the representative, McDermott leans toward a pacifist stance and that in the past he hasn’t supported war funding. So far McDermott has been a pretty good progressive representative. I am hoping he votes no–sounds like he might be inclined to do so.

I will keep saying my piece and taking my lumps here because I think it is so very important. In my opinion, this is one of the most naive and misguided stps ever taken by the far-left progressive movement on the web. Here is why:

1. Defeating the supplemental will only be a hollow and superficial victory. Surely no one is naive enough to think that if the supplemental doesn’t pass, troops will not be funded in Afghanistan and that military effort will come to an end. Funding will turn up in another bill, or the Obama administration will obtain the funds elsewhere; suh as from out of the Pentagon budget. Etc. How much blood is this effort worth.

2. This short term victory if achieved will only serve to provide reactionary Republicans with a powerful campaign slogan and talking point in 2010. “Democrats Vote Not To Support Our Brave Men and Women In The Military”. That is as sure to happen as the sun rising tomorrow. And God forbid there is another terrorist attack between now and 2010 — you can kiss everything so many worked so hard for goodbye.

3. This effort has only served to drive a wedge between Barack Obama and many Democrats. It is akin to one family member throwing another under a bus if you happen not to agree on a couple of issues. This lack of loyalty and self righteous indignation that I see being expressed with more than a little outright hatred and vitriol — is sure to lead to an even more fractured and weakened Democratic party with potentially disastrous electoral outcomes possible as a result.

4. It is supremely narcissistic and arrogant to take this position, to focus on such a narrow policy issue when there are so many more pressing issues to the American people. Barack Obama is trying to clean up an incredible mess and this lack of support from his own party is just mind boggling. Do you really think that the average poor working family in rural South Texas, or East Los Angeles, or urban Michigan, etc., gives a crap about this? No, they don’t. They care about health care, clothing and feeding their children, jobs, educating their kids, etc. You do them a disservice weakening a President which provides them their best chance to achieve these things.

5. Contrary to what you think, there is something decidedly un-American about such a small group of educated, bright, politically savvy people online seeking to effect their will on Congress. Expressing your opinion is one thing. Threatening and trying to intimidate members of Congress is another. I know what you will say to this – free speech, democracy at work, etc. I am sorry — smells like swift-boating to me.

You don’t get everything you want in life. Obama never, ever said he was a far-left progressive. Even many of you said he wasn’t your first choice, yet you voted for him didn’t you because the alternative would have been disastrous. If you keep on attacking Obama, you will get a far-right Congress and President before you know it. Is that what you want?

This is not a far left country and never will be. Do you ever stop and think know who is running the show? Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi for God’s sake!!

That is a bloody miracle! Don’t blow it!!!

I apologize for the poor typing and thank you for allowing me to express my opinion once again.

I called Shakah Fattah’s office in Washington. The rep said he would pass my message on to the MAN.

I told him that War was made illegal by the Nurenberg Trials and the Supreme Court Justice, Robert Jackson, that presided over them said so. I said that supplementing or supporting our troops, or adding funds is all another version of making war. I also said that I understood that he had an obligation to Barak Obama but that this war of imperialism was the same as war to make others slaves no different than the slavery of Frederick Douuglas or Richard Wright. Our imperialism and this war is against the law and against mankind.

where does Tom Periello stand? Surprised he’s not on the whip count

The war in Afghanistan is a war of imperialism? Really? I wonder if you would feel that way if your family member jumped to their death from the 102nd floor of the WTC with their skin melting.

Also, please get your facts straight. The Nuremberg Trials was a legal proceeding to try Nazi war criminals, it didn’t make law for the world. And no one ever made war illegal. There are just wars.

What’s the bill number on this particular abortion?

i’m pretty sure it’s hr 2346

open congress

thomas

Jane, the FireDogLake community is doing itself proud. I would call my rep, but I only have a non-voting delegate!

Jane,

This has been a well organized effort with timely updates for continued action. A superb job at mobilizing citizen action.

Thank you very much.

Just off the phone with Mike Michaud’s office. Mike is holding “no” on the War Supplemental. He is standing by his original statement against the bill:

Just like the Iraq War, I believe that we need an exit strategy for our operations in Afghanistan. Until I see clearly defined benchmarks for progress and a plan to bring our troops home, I will continue to oppose these types of funding measures.

Still, the discussion with the staffer included the quote, “as of now.” So it is imperative to continue making calls!

And by the way, @redfish: The “AfPak” war the U.S. insists upon in the last 2 months has casualty numbers 5x that of 9/11. This bill will extend and expand the war in myriad ways. It looks to me like national security or prevention of terrorism is really low on the list of reasons for this U.S. policy of war. Google the conservative historian Andrew Bacevich for more on the realities of American empire and book-length arguments on why “the war in Afghanistan is a war of imperialism.”

Redfish, if it was indeed a “just a few far left progressive liberals cleverly gaming the system to go against the will of the American people” then you wouldn’t have to be engaged in such out and out deception and fearmongering, would you?

America, the American people, have long since tired of the endless wars and the lies that go with them.

And it’s time the elected representives of the American people started listening to the American people… and stopped listening the fear-laden talking points of the discredited party that was overwhelmingly voted out of power.

As far as not supporting funding the troops in Afghanistan and releasing the photos – it is just a small minority. I do not believe that having a differing perspective on Afghanistan makes me guilty of ‘deception and fearmongering’ either.

America has always made the distinction between just wars of necessity and unjust wars of choice. Vietnam and Iraq were unjust wars of choice and WWII and Afghanistan are just wars of necessity. There are large groups of people in Afghanistan who want to kill innocent Americans. That is a fact and that makes this a just endeavor. There are no lies about Afghanistan – Barack Obama has been clear as to his policy and why we are there.

The elected representatives of America as you say are not a monolith. And not all think like you do. I don’t speak talking points and I am a proud Liberal Democrat that does not happen to agree with you on these issues. There are millions more just like me.

I am familiar with that perspective, I happen to disagree. I do not think that confronting Al Qaeda and their Taliban enablers is imperialist.

Barack Obama won – not Dennis Kucinich.

Ed Markey??? He should know better. I hope there are some Californians in here to call him.

As stated on a previous thread, I e-mailed Paul Hodes’ office [a difficult task if you don’t reside in his district] and pointed out that he was oh-so-glad to solicit and receive my financial support [ActBlue; Blue America], so perhaps he’d like to support “us” now.

Do not feed . . . who comes not to “share” but to exhibit his/her 23-year old “wisdom” with condescention & extreme conviction of his/her “rightness.”

Lecturing included for free.

I just called Keith Ellison’s office and the person who answered confirmed to me that Mr. Ellison WILL BE VOTING NO on the supplemental. anyone care to back me up on that?

You can demean me personally all you want. It is high time Liberal Democrats that support Barack Obama and value a Democratic majority in Congress take you on! You are doing this country a grave disservice and I resnt it.

confronting Al Qaeda and their Taliban enablers

Of 15,000 casualties reported in “AfPak” since April, 98% have been defenseless civilians. The U.S. potentially has many additional allies in the region if it would stop dropping bombs on people’s heads using diabolic remote-control killing machines. So why is creating degrees of bloody chaos preferable? In one word: imperialism.

At best you are misinformed. At worst, you are dishonest. You say that there were 14,700 defenseless civilians killed since April 2009? In less than two months? Kindly present your link to factually substantiate this.

“The UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) reported that 2,118 civilians were killed as a result of armed conflict in Afghanistan in the entire year of 2008″.

“The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC) estimates the number of civilians killed as a result of the armed hostilities in 2008 at around 1,800, with about 1,000 killed by militant groups and about 800 killed by U.S.-led military forces”.

deadfish don’t have votes. Allow the troll to spew, it is after all, their only hope.

Hate to give them attention but … I have a suspicion

Be honest

Are you from Houston? Or better yet Clear lake? Have you ever lived in either city? Does, or did, your best friend live in Virginia? Does CVN 65 ring a bell?

Redfish:

The war in Afghanistan is a war of imperialism? Really?
Yes! Really! War is illegal. Not only is it illegal because of the UN Charter, it is illegal because of Nurenberg and Dachau; But it is also illegal because of Briand-Kellog Pact of 1928?

I wonder if you would feel that way if your family member jumped to their death from the 102nd floor of the WTC with their skin melting.

About jumping, when the Reichstag was destroyed back when, it turned out that it was Hitler that did it according to William Shirer who read the top secret german documents after Hitler killed himself. But at the time, Germany found proof that it was some slep jew that did burned it down. Does that sound familiar? The WTC was blamed on Osama and George Bush blamed him…and the Commission blamed him, but I think it was an inside job done by some of the ghouls in our own government.
Would you believe anything GW Bush said? I wouldn’t. My name for GW is AM. AMBUSH.

Also, please get your facts straight. The Nuremberg Trials was a legal proceeding to try Nazi war criminals, it didn’t make law for the world. And no one ever made war illegal. There are just wars.

Tell that to the supreme court. They ruled that anyone who engages in war is engaging in organized crime. Justice Robert Jackson of the SCOTUS made that based on international law. You know what that means. Anybody working in Abu Ghahib and in afghanistan and in Guantanamo and in Iraq…they are all war criminals. Do you know why they still go after Germans to this day?

At best, huh? Must say I don’t care for the way you argue, redfish.

Actually to clarify, my figure combines data from two different casualty estimates. And you’re right, I definitely misquoted the time period involved. The first is HERE. If you add all that up, you’ll get since January 2006: 14 al-Qaeda leaders and 687 civilians killed. That’s one al-Qaeda to 49 civilians killed, a 98% rate of civilian casualties. The figure of 15,000 is all civilians killed due to U.S. attacks, bombings, mistakes, destruction of wedding parties, and other military operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan since 2001. The error bar easily could be 5,000 in either direction, but you’ll see a similar number in many places. To account for what I wrote above, I had the now six-week-old Pakistan military offensive the has displaced one million and killed an unknown number in my mind. I apologize for the confusion.