And it’s just baffling how friends can exact revenge from a person attempting to follow his conscience and doing nothing other than exercising his political and religious rights.

Raddon spent much of career working around gays and benefiting from their artistic expression. So his God allows him to make money from a group he thinks are less deserving of civil rights than he? His God says it fine to smile and be nice to them while deny them civil rights? That’s kind of a messed up, hypocritical religion. A direct relationship with God, one not dictated by a priest or bishop, a conversation with the Divine may have prompted him to act differently, to not work as someone who promoted and supported gay art–or maybe just maybe his conscience/his God would have said, “Hey I can’t really screw over these people.”

Yay!

Who’s next?

Well, yeah it’s a “messed up, hypocritcal religion” that he is following. He’s a Mormon. But again, what did he do to justify losing his job?

Digg

“I am profoundly sorry for the negative attention that my actions have drawn to Film Independent…”

Does that mean that if the attention wasn’t drawn, as would happen if no one found out about his donation, then he’s not sorry?

That’s what it means. What else should he be sorry about?

” It still baffle me, and many how one can be a devout Mormon and support the LGBT community artistically. Like, isn’t that furthering the “homosexual agenda,” a “lifestyle choice” that the Church of Latter Day Saints isn’t too thrilled about?”

My assessment is that you have never lived in a Mormon controlled area of the country? Provides an extensive education on cults and humans.

This mind controlled cult lives by Money as money equals power to them, their innate cognition is subjugated by 100% dogma and they must buy their position in the heavens the cult preach exist. Greed and profits run their existence much the same as Muslim Extremist are promised unending sex with virgins. Years ago a workbook for Hari Krishna was exposed and it told them that taking money from “demons” by any means was good because they would only spend it on sin. Later, law suits settled that bill.
Mormonism is the ultimate Pyramid Scheme.

If hypocrisy was a firing offense, there would be a lot of people without jobs.

And it just mazes me that people can call rank bigotry “following one’s conscience.”

What did he do?

He gave over a thousand dollars to “Yes on 8,” asshole!!!!!!!

Make no mistake I don’t dislike Mormons. Or to put it another way I like gay ex-Mormons a whole lot.

Duncan Lance Black, the screenwriter of Milk is a gay ex-mormon. And so is a brilliant young filmmaker named Taylor Greeson who I write about HERE.

1,838 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Lisa Derrick and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

“It still baffles me…how one can be a devout Mormon and support the GLBT community artistically.”

It’s one of God’s little jokes on the stupid, Sister Lisa…when one is stupid enough to not only believe in that shit but take money outta the budget for the family ta feed that evil, superstitious nonsense then yer not gunna even know when the light has turned red and the traffic runs ya over. It the way God takes care of fools and the stupid.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND KEEP THAT SHIT OUTTA MY YARD!!

IIRC, the El Coyote owner said she had given the money *to her church* and didn’t know that it would be donated to Prop 8. Seems that maybe Richard Raddon is being very mysterious about what happened. So what is this about, do they drop blank cheques into the collection box and the church secretary fills out the Pay To part? Or what? Or is the Coyote lady making stuff up?

B/C if she gave it ‘to the church’ and the church decided where the $ went, wouldn’t that be something for the IRA to have a look at? Anyone?

It still baffles me, and many how one can be a devout Mormon and support the LGBT community artistically

Being a “devout and faithful” member of any authoritarian religious cult organization is bound to lead to cognitive dissonance on some level.

Citizen Cellar47:

You don’t hafta “like” any of your fellow citizens and neither to ya hafta accept the shit they profess to believe…ya jest hafta fight for their right ta believe it.

It still baffles me, and many how one can be a devout Mormon and support the LGBT community artistically. Like, isn’t that furthering the “homosexual agenda,” a “lifestyle choice” that the Church of Latter Day Saints isn’t too thrilled about?

you have missed the gorilla in the room, it is 1000 lbs big;

I have always held the belief that all people, no matter race, religion, or sexual orientation, are entitled to equal rights. As many know, I consider myself a devout and faithful Mormon. I prefer to keep the details around my contribution through my church a private matter

he was obviously forced into this contribution, I have no idea how the mormon church charges their tith however I would venture to say the members are obligated to contribute and they have no say over how that contribution is attributed

this member is not at liberty to discuss

in other words, this mormon member was forced into a
contribution and attribution to which they had no control

that is my understanding of that statement

There’s a very strange dissonance here.
I’ve actually spoken to a Christian who says she understands that God creates Gays. She can’t argue with the science of it, but cannot allow Gays equal civil rights. And, she thinks that it’s okay to be gay, but that they shouldn’t have sex.
I don’t get her philosophy any more than I can understand their belief that Gay Marriage somehow undermines Straight Marriage.
I’ve got a mental block.

Firepup Freedom Fighters:

To all those fellow citizens who choose to believe in and support evil, superstitious and inhumane religions I have jest one thing to say: “THIS IS A SECULAR COUNTRY!!”

People like him don’t think gays, blacks, Jews, Muslims and a bunch of other non Mormon groups should have the same rights as Mormons and their like minded ilk. Accordingly, I detest them and their right wing buds and don’t want to have anything to do with them, even though I tolerate them in the exercise of their rights. What’s hard about this? They’re fucking assholes and their stupid pig views should b e widely derided. FUCK THEM, but they can keep their miserable fucking votes and so on..

you know demi, I just realized a good discussion point thanx to your post;

“if you are against gay marriage then you are for premarital sex if a person is gay?

in other words he is a religious robot.

It’s simple. Gay marriage undermines straight marriage because, well because, umm, because, uhhh, give me a minute here, because…

Can I get back to you on that?

Well, maybe that’s why no one can explain it to me.
There is simply no reasonable answer.

he is a mormon, you are being redundant

You know it is kind of scary that the Morman church has such sway over its members that they can seemingly demand and receive money for a project like “yes on 8″, even from their members who are very supportive of the gay community in every other way.

Makes you kind of wonder, what they would really do if they set their minds to it, doesn’t it?

Can I check something here? If the Church was soliciting and bundling contributions through itself, how is it that this is not a violation of the tax code? This fellow donated, in his own words, through his church. Shouldn’t that spark an IRS investigation?

these people should be outed on a daily basis.

Perris!!
I want to stay (or get) open minded. I want to be able to discuss issues with people that I know I already disagree with.
But, on this subject, I’m baffled.
I still find the human heart intriguing.
But, it would be easier to just call them assholes, like JDM3. At least for this afternoon, I’m going with that plan. I’ll try to be “Christian” about it some other time.
Thanks to all here who keep this dialog going.
The underlying whys of how we treat each other are as important as any other issue. Seems they are related. To me, anyway.

here is the real fear among those who oppose gay marriage;

they do not want homosexuality to be socially acceptable, they want it to remain “unacceptable” and here is why;

there are those people who believe that while being gay might not be a choice for some, it is a choice for others and they want that choice to be a difficult one to make.

though I am a progressive and of course want everyone to enjoy the rights and priviledge of marriage, I am among those who understand there is no choice for some homosexuals however I am personally convinced there is a choice for others.

now, I know this belief is not popular among progressives but it is what I personally believe.

Citizen Something TheDogSaid:

“BINGO” Citizen STDS…this is a subject that should get some traction from the Proposition8 experience…I hope the activists and the well organized anti-Prop8 folks start networkin’ from California across the nation to raise the question of religious political activity and tax exempt status. This is the fight that must be fought if our democracy is to be saved.

I believe all you have to do is ask if they are mormon or not, mormons are proud of their religion as all religions are

no reasonable answer

Reasonable answer? Now you want reasonable answers? What are you, some kind of librul? When discussing faith reason has nothing to do with it

that may be in fact the result of their position. but it has a root in the bible which for some is literal and not merely a teaching tool.

No I don’t.

I hear you loud and clear.
You know what Perris, sometimes I fear that you and I have a lot in common.
My people tell me I think too much.

Then there’s a choice for heterosexuals too dear. That’s why Miss God created bisexuality.

I think a lot of people need to be made to understand that equality doesn’t mean they will be forced to condone or approve of homosexuality. They are free to remain as bigoted as they like. The important thing is, in the eyes of the LAW, everybody is equal. We can’t have different set of laws for different groups of people.

with that religion you are either a good mormon or you are dumped. yes.

Yes, I like reasonable answers.
On your second point, if we’re talking low information sheeple religion talk, there is no use for reason, but if you read up on some of the highly educated and extremely thoughtful religious Thinkers, there is a strong aspect of reason being used.

Well, the science tends to indicate that it is not a bianary solution, meaning yes you are gay, no you are not. It is more of continum, where there are some (unknown numbers on all of these) that are 100% heterosexual, and some 100% homosexual, with the rest (most of us) somewhere in between. That most of the middle never act on the impulse, but some do, is where we get any kind of support for this being a choice. How you are sexually oriented is not your choice. It is only the choice to act on it that we get to make.

To conservatives, that is all one, but it really is not the same as saying you can pick who you find sexually attractive, to the best of my knowledge you can’t. I have never had a choice, it just happens.

Being a Mormon means checking your brain at the door of the meeting house, and especially at the door of any Temple.

It’s a mystery-cult, pure and simple and its rituals make no sense (and I’d say can’t make sense) to anyone with even modest reasoning abilities. So you check your brain at the door and do it for whatever reason. Maybe doing it makes your spouse happy. Maybe complete suspension of disbelief makes you happy.

As far as Raddon’s resignation goes, he didn’t have to resign, and the Festival Board didn’t have to accept his resignation. There is a personal quality called discretion. Suppose that there was a Prop 42 on an upcoming ballot that would deny Indian-Americans (of the subcontinent variety) some right commonly held here, say, the right to vote. Making contributions to advance Prop 42 would be an indiscreet thing for a film festival director to do, given the size (and niche popularity) of Bombay-produced films.

The same is true of Prop 8, except that we’re not talking about a protected class here. Gays as a group have every reason to be outraged about the passage of Prop 8. If Raddon’s public support for Prop 8 damaged the LA Film Festival’s ability to go about its business, then he’s got to go.

Prop 8 was a citizen initiative, not a partisan political race. The IRS draws a distinction between the two.

Thanks! I did not know that. Too bad.

That may not be accurate. The definition of theology is “faith seeking understanding”, and many analytical works have intelligently addressed the subject. Faith and reason are not mutually exclusive. Look at some of the works on the historical Jesus; you will find an abundance of reason.

I agree.
Not sure you got what I was saying I didn’t understand.

Thanks. You said that better than I did.

Not to belabor this point, but if you have to have faith (belief without proof is the definition I use) aren’t you introducing a non-provable factor into your world model? If you do that then you are degrading the accuracy of your world model on all levels.

So, from the point of view of those of us that do not believe, if you are having any kind of religious faith, you are, to some degree, abandoning reason. However that is not the same as abandoning logic, which is what is seems most theology is based on. The problem is that applying logic to a un-provable concept still leads to false conclusions.

yep, it’s just a business decision. nothin personal.

My guess is that Mormon Boy was “taken to the woodshed” over his work (by the Mormon church) and, as retribution, gave the money. Just a guess.

But the Mormons, like most other religions, have a funny way of turning their heads on “God’s word” when there is money involved. As we know, Mormons are required to tithe at least 10% to the church. At this guy’s job, I would guess it is substantial. So — if the question is his work going against “Mormon values” and $$$$, guess which wins?

There are many examples. Way back when, when Donny and Marie were making a lot of money in Hollywood, I recall it was against Mormon laws to have mustaches or beards. But oh no! Donny was to be in a movie that required a beard! Guess what? The Mormons excused him from that law/rule until the movie was finished being filmed.

And we all know about the Catholic law about no divorce — or rather, only ONE marriage. And how rich Catholics can get their marriages annuled (by giving money to the church) if they want to marry Wife No. 2 in the church. (It always tickled me to see a father of 5 state his marriage wasn’t “consummated.”

Religion = hypocrites.

Did you see my #39?
Have you read any Marcus Borg? There are so many good religious writers out there, I hate to just name one, but I call him the George Carlin of Methodists.
For me, faith and reason co-exist the same way religion and science do.

there are some people who can keep those two worlds separate with great success. i can’t do it myself.

It was more of a general statement, not really directed at anyone or anything specific. Sorry for any confusion.

I hear you, but I disagree, or at least come away with a different conclusion.
It’s okay if we think differently.
I can use reason as part of my faith. There is nothing I can tangibly point at to confirm I’m using reason, but nevertheless, I do.

Mormons have a world wide reputation, In Japan when the people see a white shirted missionary walking down the street they run or retreat behind locked doors.
Exhausting your energy with anger and hatred on Mormon Psychosis is a waste.
Understand this, Utah and Mormons have the highest rate of usage of prescription Scheduled Drugs, Psychotropic and Antidepressants than any other group or region.
They collect and manufacture miserable people and herd them into a cult solely for monetary and power considerations.
Mormonism is nothing new, slavery has been around in one form or another since psychosis entered the genome. Today we look with wonder on ancient constructions which Slaves built and it is still happening today.

Thanks. Yes, we crossed. I have read some of Borg (not alot) and also seen him speak…which is pretty amazing. He has an incredible accent, and I get the feeling that he amuses himself. Pretty impressive.

I went to Divinity School with a woman who had been brought up Mormon. Without knowing the details, I do know the experience was really a grieving one for her, and she was grieved that her parents were still a part. Sort of the way I think of the Scientologist, I guess. Where is the love, service, kindness. This student felt that she had been mislead and betrayed. Quite sad.

But again, what did he do to justify losing his job?

Um, just for the record, he didn’t “lose” his job. He wasn’t fired, and he reportedly had the full support of his bosses to remain in his current position. Nevertheless, he CHOSE to resign. And he appears to have made that decision as a result of the uproar over his own actions in the political arena. His situation might seem (to some) unfortunate, but I see no evidence that he’s some sort of victim of workplace discrimination here.

Aren’t Mormons one of the denominations that actually shuns those (including family members) who go too far astray?

There is so much to learn, isn’t there?
(we are climbing jacob’s ladder…)

Yes they are. An ex-Mormon friend of mine got the full treatment from the church — declaring him dead and surrounding his home for a “funeral.”

Mormons are alos given to “baptizing” the dead. Recently they’ve been in the new for “baptizing” dead Jews — whose live relatives aren’t terribly appreciative of the practice.

Such is “religious tolerance.”

Well, the science tends to indicate that it is not a bianary solution, meaning yes you are gay, no you are not.

something, that science is flawed, I do believe science has proven that everyone has a homosexual experience and choose from there…so there is diverse “scientific opinion”

I know this as a fact, I do believe I personally chose not to be gay, (actually not to be bisexual), it’s not a physical choice, it’s not an aesthetic choice (I think both genitalia is kind of ugly

so this is what we have, a bunch of people like myself, but some who fear they might have made a differant choice given differant social circumstances

It’s a mystery-cult, pure and simple and its rituals make no sense (and I’d say can’t make sense) to anyone with even modest reasoning abilities.

that’s not really fair, the same would be said of just about any religion, anyway, I believe (but am not certain this represents the mormon belief system, though portrayed to be a dispariging representation

I must live in a different moral and emotional universe than those crying about this guy losing his career.

At the risk of disclosing too much information, I am not married. I once had a fiancee. I ached to marry her. I would have crawled across broken glass to marry her.

Unfortunately she broke the engagement. C’est la vie.

My point is this: I loved her. I imagine us being husband and wife. I would stop at nothing to defend that.

And I imagine, what would I do to someone who threatened my marriage?

The answer is simple. I would destroy them. Unquestioningly, remorselessly, utterly destroy them. By any means at hand.

Lord have mercy on the homewrecker I find anywhere near my marriage. Because I would have none.

That’s who these people are. They are homewreckers.

After this election, Richard Raddon returned to work alongside some couple who had been married prior to Election Day. A marriage that was then dissolved by the passage of Prop 8, by its plain meaning. With Raddon’s active and public support. Richard Raddon, homewrecker.

If he’d played homewrecker to my marriage that way…let me put it this way: I don’t know how Raddon gets to work, but the day I found out what he did, I know how he’d leave work.

In an ambulance, if he were lucky. In two ambulances, if I could work quickly enough.

If you ask me, Raddon is getting off pretty light losing only his job.

If you fuck with peoples’ marriages, you deserve everything you get. And worse.

You would think that the Morman Church would be historically more sensitive than any institution that I can think of. They had to form their own state to avoid persecution by those who felt (and if polled,still do!) that their beliefs are an abomination to God. How come all of my godless heathen friends behave more Christ-like than all of these God damned Christians?

Not to be taken as an expert, I have to say I do not understand your anger at his destroying someone’s marriage. The experts have have spoken that the proposition does not invalidate anyone’s marriage that is already in existence. It disallows future marriages, a proposal that very likely will not pass constitutional muster for its large measure of
discrimination. The passage itself did not destroy anyone’s marriage from what I have read/heard.

Well, don’t misunderstand me. I am not saying that you can’t reason, just that I think, given your faith that it will be less accurate. But that leaves out the possibility that I am wrong, which sadly happens far more than I would like to admit.

In any case, I don’t think you are any less or more of a good person because of it.

I’m probably misreading you, but when you say
I think, given your faith that it will be less accurate. I have to wonder if your are talking about my personal faith or something else.
I’m glad you are giving me room to be a good person.
I try.
It’s difficult to have a conversation like this one, online, without the benefit of knowing someone, not being able to look in the others eyes.
We’d first have to have a mutual agreement about what our individual biases are about words like Faith, Reason…etc.
Know what I mean? Nevertheless, it’s been a good discussion.

He gave money in support of something being voted upon, something that the majority of people who voted supported. Asshole that I am, I had managed to understand this.
Your reply neglected to explain why his action should result in the loss of his job. I repeat, slowly and gently, WHY WHY WHY?

I thank you for your reply. I understand that he was not fired by his employers. I believe the fact that they refused to accept his resignation speaks well of them.
I stated that he lost his job, perhaps I might have been more clear by asking why he was hounded from it.

I would recommend that you read “Unholy Alliance” by Peter Levenda
Ron L. Hubbard pages 246, 288 for a complete picture of Scientology which is most often missed elsewhere.

Mormons, Jack Mormons and even Ex-Mormons all must sooner or later come to terms with their dysfunctional biochemistry brought about by diet as they frequently use food as a drug and their Stress Induced Anxiety States.
I have met thousands of all types of Mormons, never met a happy one since every single one was at war with themselves.
Their war against gays is in reality a war between their Psychotic Dogma versus innate human reality. Bipolar Disorder Manic-Depression acting out.

You might as well ask the ripples in a pond why they chose to ripple outward when a stone was plunked into the water.
He took an action (totally legal, etc) and people were repelled by it. Their reactions are legal too.
He chose to resign. People make choices.

Thank you. Reasonably and elegantly stated.
I had hoped that the people reading these posts might reflect upon the wisdom of choosing to cast stones..

During my years in LA with a pool cleaning business our vacation was the 2 weeks of FilmEx. First at Grumann’s Chinese then at Century City Plaza’s excellent venue. Met a lot of fine folks and saw some wonderful films. After 2 weeks of films from 10 in the morning until 1 or 2 the next morning we were ready to go back to work.