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	<title>Comments on: Carper v. Lieberman &#8211; Speak Softly and Carry a Small Stick</title>
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	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:24:08 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19853</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19853</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Removing Joseph Lieberman from the Chairmanship of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee would be an act of extreme pettiness,&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More of less petty than threatening to caucus with Republicans - take his football and go home - if he doesnt get to play quarterback.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;CT Democrats rejected Joe in 2006, Joe who campaigned for McCain, Collins, and Coleman in 2008, not their Democratic rivals.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seriously, what are the consequences of disloyalty and the benefits of being a team players?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Joe Leiberman is as asshat.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>Removing Joseph Lieberman from the Chairmanship of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee would be an act of extreme pettiness,</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>More of less petty than threatening to caucus with Republicans &#8211; take his football and go home &#8211; if he doesnt get to play quarterback.</p>
<p>CT Democrats rejected Joe in 2006, Joe who campaigned for McCain, Collins, and Coleman in 2008, not their Democratic rivals.   </p>
<p>Seriously, what are the consequences of disloyalty and the benefits of being a team players?  </p>
<p>Joe Leiberman is as asshat.</p>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19847</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19847</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;JoLie is a disgrace to America and the United States Senate. He should resign.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JoLie is a disgrace to America and the United States Senate. He should resign.</p>
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		<title>By: EveLeland</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19846</link>
		<dc:creator>EveLeland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19846</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One more reason to oust lieberman.  According to public records two major leases for lands for FEMA trailer storage were given outright to : Tommy Montgomery III and his wife Lillian for $960,000 per year (2 years) and an additional $250,000 in improvements to a Lottie, La site) and to Ralph and Jaspar Artall for a Melville site ($1.2 million /yr lease plus $800,000 in improvements).  The two families ALSO are on record for the following:  Artalls: $422,260.44 in farm subsidies THROUGH 2006! and the Montgomerys $46,583.98 in farm subsidies - 9502006 plus another $6,289 to Montgomery IV in farm subsidies.  It all looks like the Same Land!  Will Lieberman ever do an investigation of these REP donors?  I think NOT.  I’ve written to Boxer asking her to investigate as these are OUR Tax funds.  (Called, too but couldn’t get through).  And, of course, both leases assigned on no-bid contracts.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more reason to oust lieberman.  According to public records two major leases for lands for FEMA trailer storage were given outright to : Tommy Montgomery III and his wife Lillian for $960,000 per year (2 years) and an additional $250,000 in improvements to a Lottie, La site) and to Ralph and Jaspar Artall for a Melville site ($1.2 million /yr lease plus $800,000 in improvements).  The two families ALSO are on record for the following:  Artalls: $422,260.44 in farm subsidies THROUGH 2006! and the Montgomerys $46,583.98 in farm subsidies &#8211; 9502006 plus another $6,289 to Montgomery IV in farm subsidies.  It all looks like the Same Land!  Will Lieberman ever do an investigation of these REP donors?  I think NOT.  I’ve written to Boxer asking her to investigate as these are OUR Tax funds.  (Called, too but couldn’t get through).  And, of course, both leases assigned on no-bid contracts.</p>
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		<title>By: Bluetoe2</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19845</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluetoe2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19845</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Lieberman’s a tool of the Republicon party.  Keeping him in a position of power is playing into the hands of the party that will do all in their power to undermine Obama’s administration.  Strip him of any meaningful power and let him stew in his juices.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lieberman’s a tool of the Republicon party.  Keeping him in a position of power is playing into the hands of the party that will do all in their power to undermine Obama’s administration.  Strip him of any meaningful power and let him stew in his juices.</p>
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		<title>By: truth2008</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19844</link>
		<dc:creator>truth2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19844</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Judad joe, got to go!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judad joe, got to go!</p>
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		<title>By: quietpc3400</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19843</link>
		<dc:creator>quietpc3400</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19843</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oops. Comment appended to wrong thread.  Nevermind &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops. Comment appended to wrong thread.  Nevermind </p>
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		<title>By: quietpc3400</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19842</link>
		<dc:creator>quietpc3400</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19842</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don’t know if anybody’s mentioned it on other threads, but “bailing out” the Big 2.5 prior to bankruptcy won’t do a thing to keep them in business.  That’s because the problems with GM and Ford (Chrysler is totally unsalvagable and is better corporately and societally to file C7) are such that:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;a) Any money we give them will only go to pay off their bondholders, creditors, both of whom shouldn’t be bailed out under any circumstances, since they acted as enablers in this fiasco.  To recapitalize them without discharging debts would as mention cost $100’s of billions.&lt;br /&gt;
b) Structurally they are both permanently impaired;  they can’t shed dealers except at high buyout cost, they can’t shed workers or entitlement obligations, and they can’t shed/shutdown brands without buying out dealers and P.O’ing customers.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately, the only way to for them to remain viable going forward is a Federally supported pre-packaged C11 bankruptcy with gov’t help for pension/healthcare obligations as well as interim Debtor in Possession financing.  Both can be fully rehabilitated as highly competitive companies with good worker wages/benefits, but only after they shed excess debt, unnecessary product lines and dealers, excess labor (the literally insane ‘jobs bank’), and offload (BK reduced) legacy benefit costs to the gov’t where they belong anyway.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The management teams at Ford and GM have screwed up for the last 30yrs, and deliberately choose not to file C11 when they could/should have more easily 1-2yrs ago, specifically to force the gov’t to bailout their criminal stupidity.  It would be the quintessence of moral hazard to reward this fraudulent behavior.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No. F’ing. Way. to a non-C11 bailout.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t know if anybody’s mentioned it on other threads, but “bailing out” the Big 2.5 prior to bankruptcy won’t do a thing to keep them in business.  That’s because the problems with GM and Ford (Chrysler is totally unsalvagable and is better corporately and societally to file C7) are such that:</p>
<p>a) Any money we give them will only go to pay off their bondholders, creditors, both of whom shouldn’t be bailed out under any circumstances, since they acted as enablers in this fiasco.  To recapitalize them without discharging debts would as mention cost $100’s of billions.<br />
b) Structurally they are both permanently impaired;  they can’t shed dealers except at high buyout cost, they can’t shed workers or entitlement obligations, and they can’t shed/shutdown brands without buying out dealers and P.O’ing customers.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the only way to for them to remain viable going forward is a Federally supported pre-packaged C11 bankruptcy with gov’t help for pension/healthcare obligations as well as interim Debtor in Possession financing.  Both can be fully rehabilitated as highly competitive companies with good worker wages/benefits, but only after they shed excess debt, unnecessary product lines and dealers, excess labor (the literally insane ‘jobs bank’), and offload (BK reduced) legacy benefit costs to the gov’t where they belong anyway.</p>
<p>The management teams at Ford and GM have screwed up for the last 30yrs, and deliberately choose not to file C11 when they could/should have more easily 1-2yrs ago, specifically to force the gov’t to bailout their criminal stupidity.  It would be the quintessence of moral hazard to reward this fraudulent behavior.</p>
<p>No. F’ing. Way. to a non-C11 bailout.</p>
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		<title>By: EvilDrPuma</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19841</link>
		<dc:creator>EvilDrPuma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19841</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually, there is. They call themselves “Democrats.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, there is. They call themselves “Democrats.”</p>
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		<title>By: CTM1978</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19840</link>
		<dc:creator>CTM1978</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19840</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why the fuck would the Dems be soo stupid to keep this mush mouth fuck in charge of a commitee that was supposed to investigate the Bush administration and, of course, did NOTHING? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Lieberman is allowed to keep his chair he will become this decades Ken Starr and launch investigation after investigation on every single little non-issue that the GOP will scream about less we forget how important it was to investigate Bill Clinton’s Christmas cards but they didn’t seem too concerned about Bushco.’s failure to protect the country during 9/11, the destruction of NO during Katrina, the illegal war started on lies, the illegal wiretapping of US citizens and the authorization of TORTURE to be used on prisoners.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let’s face it, they don’t want to boot him because he’s Jewish and they don’t want to offend Israel.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the fuck would the Dems be soo stupid to keep this mush mouth fuck in charge of a commitee that was supposed to investigate the Bush administration and, of course, did NOTHING? </p>
<p>If Lieberman is allowed to keep his chair he will become this decades Ken Starr and launch investigation after investigation on every single little non-issue that the GOP will scream about less we forget how important it was to investigate Bill Clinton’s Christmas cards but they didn’t seem too concerned about Bushco.’s failure to protect the country during 9/11, the destruction of NO during Katrina, the illegal war started on lies, the illegal wiretapping of US citizens and the authorization of TORTURE to be used on prisoners.</p>
<p>Let’s face it, they don’t want to boot him because he’s Jewish and they don’t want to offend Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: marshen</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/comment-page-1/#comment-19839</link>
		<dc:creator>marshen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/11/17/carper-v-lieberman-speak-softly-and-carry-a-small-stick/#comment-19839</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;He never questioned Senator Obama’s patriotism &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the campaign trail Lieberman repeatedly said the Obama did not want to “win the war in Iraq, but McCain did.” Lieberman went into his explanation that withdraw from Iraq would mean the US would lose the war and McCain, willing to stay indefinitely, until we achieved “victory” was the patriotic thing to do and to withdraw was unpatriotic. This was a central part of Lieberman’s speech as he introduced his friend McCain in town hall meeting all across the country.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You have come to the wrong place my friend to try to pull the wool over our eyes!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He never questioned Senator Obama’s patriotism </p>
</blockquote>
<p>On the campaign trail Lieberman repeatedly said the Obama did not want to “win the war in Iraq, but McCain did.” Lieberman went into his explanation that withdraw from Iraq would mean the US would lose the war and McCain, willing to stay indefinitely, until we achieved “victory” was the patriotic thing to do and to withdraw was unpatriotic. This was a central part of Lieberman’s speech as he introduced his friend McCain in town hall meeting all across the country.</p>
<p>You have come to the wrong place my friend to try to pull the wool over our eyes!</p>
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