It’s easy for people of Sir John’s privilege to loose sight of the impact these things have on us commoners. It’s distressing to see this from such a supporter of the community.

I do not support a “separate but equal” class for same sex unions- all of history shows that this is never quite equal.

I actually support ideally a somewhat radical sounding solution to the dilemma: government entities should cease (for new unions) recognizing anything but a civil union for all couples of any gender. Marriage has in the U.S., become overly entangled with religious ceremonies, and I think it’s pretty clear the government has no place granting any recognition to any such religious rite.

If couples wish to (in their minds) sanctify said civil union with some additional ritual, knock yourselves out!

But it seems clear that in many respects the true Separation of Church and State needs to be clarified by law.

I think such a solution may be no less palatable throughout much of the country; I personally know many people for whom “Marriage” has specific religious definition. This would also have pretty clear constitutional grounds.

sir elton should worry about his own country…
is he in favor of fox hunting, as well????

All marriages are civil unions.

Another (possible) facet of John’s viewpoint is that he’s the product of another generation.

Sir John stayed in the closet for quite a while. Of course, when he came out, he kicked the door down wearing heels(!), but none the less, I think it’s hard for some to overcome the lifelong concept that our gay relationships are different than heteros.

What many don’t realize is that an assent that the relationship is different allows the implication that there’s something wrong with the relationship. This is why “separate but equal” does not really work; after all: if they’re equal, why separate?

Lisa- I really appreciate your keeping up on the issue here. I think it’s finally shown a lot of complacent people that we have a long way to go, and awakened the drive for some good old fashioned activism– ACT UP style. Courts may help with cases (like Prop 8), but obviously attitudes need change.

Who gives a flying rat’s ass if Elton John wants to marry or not? It’s not about him….it’s about the whole entire gay community and a good portion would like to be able to marry the one they love with the same legal protections and benefits as heterosexual couples do. If it was up to Elton John, every gay man would be forced to dress like him. Jees.

Most weddings are tacky.
(I have a bad attitude about marriage and I build websites for wedding photographers)

Meddling when he does not understand the issue. Shame on him. Well, who ever accused entertainers of intelligence? (Not condemning every one of them. Just saying it’s not what they’re known for.)

The key phrase is this While in the United Kingdom, civil unions grant all the rights of marriage

BUT in the good old USA …… there are 1000’s of laws, regulations, contract language and statues that expressly state the word MARRIAGE and do not grant those rights to civil unions…..

Just one applies to me….. I have a pension from an employer that will NOT pay out after my death unless I have a legal spouse…..

Very funny. I agree. I was married twice but never had a wedding. (I have a bad attitude about marriage as well as weddings. Thought the best cartoon on the subject was the middle age hetero couple. He looks up from the paper and sez to her: Gay marriage? Haven’t those people suffered enough? But I guess it’s just me.)

digg
and reddit

my wedding reception was a picnic

My picnics are just picnics. I did celebrate a decadal birthday with a picnic, though.

well, my marriage wasn’t a picnic

Nor mine. *g*

Been there and done that twice…… now I just live in sin….;)

I loves me some sin.

I live in SINgle. Superstitious about that 3 strike thingy.

Will you get married in order to facilitate the pension requirement? You could always get a divorce.

LOL that was why mr and I never had one (did the justice of the peace thing).

How are you, Mary?

OT
Watching hedge fund guys testify before Waxman. Last one opened his remarks with something like “tell you how hedge funds contribute to the economy.” Camera switched to Waxman who woke up & glared at the witness. Very funny.

He isn’t doing the Gordon Gekko “Greed is good” thing, is he?

We should just do away with state recognition of marriage altogether. Leave it to the churches to define what marriage means in their individual congregation. Civil Union for any couples that want state recognition and benefits – religious ceremonies should have no standing legally.

Really Elton is correct that the word “marriage” is a big issue for the bigots. Give them their word, while giving every committed couple civil rights. There are plenty of churches that will also give same sex couples a marriage ceremony, so this doesn’t take the word away, just lets the bigoted people believe they’ve defended their faith.

I’d love me some sin

No. They are all testifying about how responsible they have been and how they didn’t contribute to the troubles. Current one is suggesting more regulation, but the prior two thought that would be counterproductive.

just goes to show there are views all over the place. the lincoln thugs are against it as well. I don’t have a horse in the race so my opinions are ones of humanity and fairness. seems to me that everyone should get what they need but this apparently steps on church dogma. won’t get past the scotus, imo.

Vice is nice but liquor is quicker.

greed IS good.ain’t you a capitalist?

I do believe that’s perris’s theory.

probably not…… its $250/month when I turn 65…… so is it worth the hassle or should I stick it to that employer?

My point exactly. Sometimes the LGBT community can be pretty insular, and not see what a fight this is still going to be.
I don’t think it’s an easier fight to win “Marriage” rights than to end the government sanctioned religious rite.

*g*

Fine. A bit wobbly but fine.
How are you?

BT up at the mothership

BT’s up at the mothership
Newt Gingrich And Bobby Jindal Succumb To Bush Derangement Syndrome, Agree Palin Is Awesome

i would like to start with the latter. let’s have some taxes from ALL that property, for example. tax it like to business it is.

Elton John, while certainly a trailblazer who took a big chance with his career coming out as ‘bisexual’ in the 1970’s (which aided in a decline in his sales for a time), doesn’t have the proper perspective for this argument…Being a long-term public figure of vast wealth catered to hand and foot by his retinue and those who wish a sniff of such rarefied air prevents that from occurring.

Additionally, he most certainly did want to be married at one point in his life, although it is of course his right to change that view – but as his remarks are delivered stratospherically far from the mainstream, they should be interpreted accordingly.

Sir Elton’s UK civil union allows for so much more on a national level than the civil unions in CA and elsewhere. And if our new president lives up to his promise to repeal DOMA, it’s important to have the word “marriage” in place.

As it stands, it doesn’t matter about a church wedding–Pat Robertson or the Pope, or even Gordon Hinckley of the LDS could perform the ceremony, but unless that piece of paper is signed and mailed it, it doesn’t matter–the state (and business entities) won’t recognize the joining of two people in matrimony.

maybe we need to have both “civil” marriages and “religious” marriages – and keep the two separated?

i don’t know, but our current system just seems so effed up to me… it’s a separate issue but maybe the equal rights campaigns will provoke us to rethink the whole thing?

Marriage is a contract between three entities, the state and the couple. Only the state knows the terms of the contract. The couple has to negotiate with the state to get out of the contract. But, first, some have to negotiate with a church. Pretzel logic. No logic. Cultural bullshit all around.

Much of this was originally for the control and subjugation of women. Women used to have to get married if they wanted any stability financially. It was, in part, a business decision.

Now it has become “the most important day in my life and I want to be a princess” More cultural bullshit.

Civil unions should be granted to all. No marriages by the state. Marriages can be held in religious buildings presided over by religious people.

All bubble; no bath.

thanks.

Not so Elton. I was just talking to a friend who works with a lesbian. (Oh, bear with me for the sake of argument, please!) My friend, Julz, is absolutely up in arms because Kyra and her partner cannot marry. Kyra’s employer provides benefit for those in ’significant other’ relationships, be it hetero or homo. They can get insurance, etc. However those benefits are limited or different from those who are actually married.

If we try to eliminate civil marriage and have domestic partnerships for all, the wingnuts will claim another victory — “See, they ARE trying to destroy marriage!” Best to make society give us the same thing everyone else has, and make clear (as Assemblyman Mark Leno’s twice-vetoed legislation does) that churches are free to do whatever they want and not forced to do anything they don’t.

Giving us marriage doesn’t change yours; but taking away civil marriage sounds like we’re tearing at the fabric of traditional marriage. Why tear down? Sure, in a just society, government would simply enforce a contract between two people, but here we have a name for that contract: MARRIAGE.

Elton is an idiot not to have known the wingnuts would use his words.

All the Young Girls Love Alice!

The only album I ever bought of Elton John’s.

What would Diana, Princess of Wales, have said to her friend Sir Elton? I think she would have set him straight. Elton, you made a fortune off those gay folks in the US, could’nt you at least support them whether you completely agree or not? Does the good will of your fans mean nothing ant more? Talk about being out of touch with reality.

Zactly.

This is how it is done in some countries – can’t remember right now which ones.