The donation was one thing. That, I think, some folks could get past, if there was some expression of regret or “I didn’t get it before.” But when a donor stands up and say “Why should this come between us?” it’s a sign of a much, much deeper gap in the relationship. “I’ll work with you, I’ll take your money as my customers, but I’ll continue to support the people who want to take away your rights — even after you call me on it” does not go down well with any oppressed or minority group.

This is not going away any time soon.

I should add that those quotes above @1 are my take on the essence of Marjorie’s position, not something she said directly transcribed from the video.

The only solution that does no harm is for her to follow the example of Mark Eckern and resign.

She never said she was sorry…in fact she seemed to think it was okay to make the donation and to marginalize people she says she cares about. I celebrate a person having faith, but it is hard to understand a faith that is so mean, so diminishing to others. I was listening to LDS president Gordon Hinckley and he was talking about how much the Mormons love the gays but they shouldnt be allowed to marry..WTF?

And California Musical Theatre’s artistic director Scott Eckern working for two and half decades with people and not caring enough about them to ignore a donation request from his Mormon church–to treat people as friends…

I am curious: what rights DOES a civil union grant and why can’t straight people go apply for one? If turned down, can they sue on ground of discrimination–they don’t want a “marriage” they want a civil union?

A “civil union” IS a marriage. My wife and I were married by the Mayor of our City, still says marriage certificate on the paper we signed…

Oops, that should read husband and I…

So, she’s a devout, tithing Mormon who works in a business that profits largely on alcohol sales.
Isn’t booze a big no-no with the LDS?
Is she a hypocrite?
Honestly, what does the LDS Church say about this?

There seems to be not enough of a distance between her faith, which should involve some personal judgement, and what her religious hierarchy tells her to do. Surely she could find away to tithe 10% without violating any of her personal principles, assuming she has some.

All mammon is good mammon…

The GOP made preachers and Churches that preach hate an issue. Lets see Pat Buchanan talk about those hate mongering Mormons forcing their members to give despite their personal feelings by using the Church’s authority to rake the cash from those who have doubts.
Whats next vote prop 8 or you won’t go to Heaven?

Y’know, this all wouldn’t be such a problem if people like Marjorie thought for themselves, rather than lending credence to large, self-interested organizations. Think for yourself Marjorie! But, no, membership in some big organization that makes empty promises about what will happen after death is more important than self-determination, self-awareness, and compassion towards one’s friends, neighbors, and customers. Marjorie is upset about the situation in which the Mormon Church has put her – but the Mormon Church is not concerned about Marjorie at all.

Yes. Yours is another way of getting at what I was trying to say in 8.

I think she is compartmentalizing the issue in her mind but the boycott is forcing her to think about the issue now.
The more people we can force to think about the issue the better. A long campaign will change more minds.
A quick court ruling will get Gays their rights back quick but not change minds as much as a long battle will.
There are pluses and minuses to both plans I’m not sure what would be best.

I love the insight from the patron who asked if she would give an equal donation to the “no on proposition 8″ drives

very good stuff there.

I am really amazed how easy it is for a church to brainwash their “flock”…since they are sheep, the term “flock” is quite appropriate

The LDS is not the only church that does it.

I’m also blaming the RCs, the Southern Baptists, and teh avengelicals in general: all the conservative denominations seem to need at least one group with lower social standing to look down on; for all of them, the ladder seems to put men at the top, then women, then GLBT. They all claim to be Christian, but I think they’d be surprised by Jesus, and they will be surprised when they meet Ghu.

I want to also point out, government has only recently been a party to this “marriage license” stuff and it was originally intended to prevent blacks from marrying white

george washington was married without government involvment.

I have no idea why government is in the business of telling anyone they need a license to marry,, I think our respective churches or belief system is the only “license” that should be given

I know there are those that want the government involved, I want the government out of my personal life

Of all things, the fact that the RC church and the Mormon church chose to support this proposition is disturbing.
But I don’t find it hard to believe that someone could love a person and at the same time treat him or her unfairly.
I think it’s sad that she cannot see what this is _really_ about and I can’t know who she does or does not love, but if she thinks gayness is a crime or a sin I don’t see why that necessarily stops her from loving someone who is gay.
And I actually see this as a hopeful sign–the fact that people are not accepting this idea that there is something wrong with being gay and they are saying so. Prop 8 is very very disturbing, but I think that it is the last desperate reaction of people all of whom see the writing on the wall and are afraid.
And the writing is on the wall. We just have to keep pushing people on it. Not on whether they _love_ us, but whether they understand what this really means, why they think it is so awful to be gay.
Because fewer and fewer Americans think there is anything wrong with it.

Love the video. Very Blair Witch.

There HAS to be consequences for their funding and votes of Yes to Prop h8te. And it needs to be monetary retribution. SO, if boycotts cause job losses in this Bush economic recession, then so be it. If you fund or vote to take something from me – I take something from you. Maybe your loss will help you to see how wrong your contribution to my loss is.

My most trusted staffer is a life-long Mormon, and I challenged her (gently) on her church’s actions in California and her tacit complicity. BTW, I’m about as far from CA as you can get and still be in the US. At first she denied the church’s involvement, later she admitted it but said it was only her abiding faith that led her to believe that marriage could only be between a man and a woman. Hell, I’m married to a woman and I couldn’t care less if men marry men or women marry women. It’s simply not my right to say they cannot.

I said, that’s fine and all, but watch what happens when the shit hits the fan. She simply cannot understand that her church took a political stand and will have to pay whatever consequences come their way. I thought using the Catholics as a front was particularly devious…both churches should lose their tax exempt status.

This directly harkens back to the equally unjust anti-miscegenation laws of old. Fuck intolerance, now.

speaking of non-traditional marriage:

John King Marries Electoral Map

CNN national correspondent John King married Electoral Map, his longtime CNN colleague, in a star-studded ceremony on Martha’s Vineyard Sunday evening. The most anticipated wedding of the year was held at the home of former presidential advisor David Gergen and was attended by a host of political and media luminaries that included Bill Clinton, Tom Brokaw and CNN founder Ted Turner.
…
Mr. King looked dashing in an elegant Armani suit. But it was Ms. Map, with her rectangle-shaped pearl white Vera Wang dress, that captivated the guest’s attention. CNN colleagues Wolf Blitzer and Roland Martin, standing in for the bride’s deceased father, pushed her down the aisle on a flatbed gurney adorned with hundreds of hanging chads. Her red, white and blue train was festooned with velvet dolls representing every presidential candidate in American history. The groomsmen were pollster John Zogby, Charlie Cook of the Cook Political Report and Mark Halperin of Time magazine. Bridesmaids were former Florida Secretary of State Kathleen Harris, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Joan Rivers.
…

I don’t agree with this. Why do marriage ceremonies employ the presiding clergy to state the clause, “by the powers invested in me by the state of…“? Marriage has always been about the assignment of property ownership (no, not the wife) between two families. You can claim the government was not involved until the last couple hundred years, but I don’t think history bears that out. Government, which often times was the government, has always determined how the property rights of two families are merged on marriage. And whichever entity has to resolve property disputes should be the one in charge of the bonding (read: marriage).

What is asinine, I think, is how religious blindness can make so many people so hung up on a single word. Claiming “civil union” is just like marriage undermines the whole idea that marriage is a unique thing that needs to be preserved. If they’re the same, the word should be the same. Otherwise it’s separate-but-equal, which is ridiculous. Those who claim equality are lying to themselves and others about their bigotry.

Oops, I meant “Government, which often times was the religious body”. Sorry.

“Flock” Was used by Jesus to decribe his followers! I don’t know where in the Gospels but I have heard it used many times during Gospels read at Catholic Masses.
But lets not forget that the Catholic Church was also behind the yes on 8…My thoughts are that Jesus would never condone something prop 8 as it espouses hate and not love that he taught!!!

How sad. Our family, children and grandchildren have been going to El Coyote for forty years. I will miss their green corn tamales. We cannot in good conscious patronize this establishment any longer. I am so sorry for the employees who did nothing.

Here is a site for donors of yes on prop 8.

http://spreadsheets.google.com…..wYX5qWeoIw

Isn’t it interesting that most people are ashamed of their bigotry but do nothing to change? It’s always “I’m not prejudiced BUT……

Ditto! I see no reason why people shouldn’t just mind their own business and I have heard no rational thought on how what two gay men’s marriage to each other would undermine heterosexual marriage of others. People would be better off if they’d stop the habit of sniffing other people’s panties!

lol. who presided?

Thanks to Thales11 for opening the Digg! Pups go Digg this important post. We need to support of gay brothers and sisters!

I don’t agree with this. Why do marriage ceremonies employ the presiding clergy to state the clause, “by the powers invested in me by the state of…“?

“by the powers invested in me I make you secretary of the perris brotherhood”

means nothing at all

the church can conduct the marriages if they want, so can my best friend

the government can provide property jurisdiction with “unions” which would be completely non discript

this is simple stuff here, the government should have no voice telling me I am or am not married

as I said before, government claiming the right to issue a marriage license is a recent development in this country

Boycotting will really only hurt the EMPLOYEES!
My family and I know her actions are WRONG-
We have been going there religously because of ALL the STAFF- NOT the owners-

I hope Billy and the rest of the staff can make something positive out of this-

Before boycotting I would think about all the workers that will really be affected-

Out of “Love” maybe she should step aside to protect her valued employees-

You know, what bothers me about all this BEYOND this woman’s misguided trust in her church that led her to sabotage those she proclaims to “love” is that her small business will pay the price. The Mormon Church probably won’t spend a penny to help her out when the boycott cuts business so badly that she goes out of business. But they were happy to take her money all along.

And, big Mormon-owned businesses won’t feel a bit of pain. Something’s not right with that picture.

Activists need to target the big companies, too. Otherwise you just make scapegoats of those least able to afford the pain, and those like Marjorie who made small contributions while the big contributors stand back and laugh.

how could you turn your backs on the employees?
at the end of the day Billy and all the others will be only ones getting hurt-

At our catholic church, we were urged to vote Yes on Prop 8. There was Yes on 8 literature all over the place. Both my husband and I were appalled, knowing that this kind of political rhetoric was inappropriate coming from the altar. We immediately told our girls (as we have done on the issue of abortion) that it is up to them to make up their own minds on any political issue.

Apparently people complained because the campaigning moved to the public street and off church property. But still, message received. There are many people who unthinkingly do whatever it is the church tells them.

If I were Marjorie, I would have ignored the fundraising drive. She isn’t being asked to sacrifice her faith, just to think for herself, and live out her faith even as wolves in sheep’s clothing tell her otherwise. I do feel bad for her though.

More people need to question authority and probe opinions.

Still not buying it. In your example of George Washington, I’d be surprised if there was no public announcement or some other way that the community knew of the marriage in some binding way. Which is a de facto license, since when disputes of survivorship and property would come up the local community/government would know how to respond.

Government is not a “them”, it’s an “us”.

This isn’t even a close call. She gave money to deprive her customers of equal rights. She didn’t apologize for it, and she doesn’t really even seem to understand why her customers are so upset about it. I can’t see any other response to this than a boycott.

Still not buying it. In your example of George Washington, I’d be surprised if there was no public announcement or some other way that the community knew of the marriage in some binding way. Which is a de facto license

I don’t see what’s missing here, defacto license by public proclomation is fine

as far as I am concerned, the government should only give unuoins and marriage shouold be by proclamation

link

It was a mixed-faith ceremony, presided over by both a Catholic priest and a precinct officer. Before the vows were exchanged, the priest asked if anyone objected to the marriage. NBC political director Chuck Todd, who was visibly inebriated, stood in the back row, climbed on his chair and shouted, “Don’t do it, baby! I’ll die without you!” … The disturbance ended when Mr. Todd lost his balance, said something about “non-Catholic Hispanics in the Fresno suburbs” and then wobbled from his chair, crashed face first onto the grass and promptly passed out.

I am sick at heart that I have offended anyone in the gay community…you are treasured to me…

Honestly, I think this is a form of apology. She recognizes that her action offended people. She didn’t weasel out and say IF I offended anyone.

I’ve been a member of the Mormon Church all my life and I responded to their request. This was a personal donation, not the El Coyote’s.

There is incredible peer pressure in any large religious organization. To be “good” one must “give”. $100 was probably a minimum contribution. I am NOT trying to minimize anyone’s feelings, I’m trying to empathize with this woman’s plight. Witness her shaking and trembling. She is confronted with a real moral dilemma and it seems she is trying to work through it.

It would be a kind thing for someone can reach out to her (perhaps an ex-Mormon) and help her sort out the position she finds herself in. This is an opportunity to reach people that are in her position to get them to realize how they might be manipulated by their church–not their faith.

Chuck Todd…Fresno suburbs!

707!

Sorry to hear that your church chose to enter into the public realm of telling it’s flock how to vote! which to me violates their tax exempt privilege and honestly should lose that privilege. Churches/Religions that enter in to public policy are exactly why the separation of Church and State must be maintained. When they tell their flock how to vote on issues they leave the spiritual world and enter into the public domain and unfortunately the Flock usually do what they are told for fear of not entering heaven whe their day comes. It also doesn’t allow an individual to think for their selves. What happened to “FREE WILL” which is written in the Bible??

You know, what bothers me about all this BEYOND this woman’s misguided trust in her church that led her to sabotage those she proclaims to “love” is that her small business will pay the price. The Mormon Church probably won’t spend a penny to help her out when the boycott cuts business so badly that she goes out of business. But they were happy to take her money all along.

It doesn’t bother me at all. She’s a small business owner who caters to the gay community. The church told her to donate money to help strip gay couples of their marriages, which she did. Her client base was incensed, and she refused to apologize to them or to make any effort to atone for what she did. She topped it all off by having a meeting with her client base that was a total PR disaster.

Now go back and look at all of the points where Ms. Christofferson could have had a positive impact here:

1. When her church told her to give to Prop 8, should could have said, “You know, a lot of my clients are gay, and they seem like good people to me. Are you sure about this?” Had she done this, at the very least, she would have been able to tell her customers that she had challenged the church, albeit gently, on this issue.

2. She could have just refused to donate to the Prop 8 campaign. She could have given money to anything else, despite the orders of the church.

3. She could have apologized to her clients for giving the money.

4. When she met with her customers, she could have agreed to give money to the pro-equality camp the next time around, and to talk to members of her church to try to change the official line on this issue.

She did none of these things. She did what the church told her to do, with no expression of regret, and no clear intent to behave differently in the future. She appears to have no intention of discussing this issue with anyone in the church.

Here’s the bottom line: She is actively obstructing the fight for gay equality, and by all appearances she is going to continue to do so. This is her choice. But it’s also the choice of her customers to take their business elsewhere, which I would strongly encourage them to do. And I would encourage other small business owners who cater to the gay community to think twice about giving money to anti-gay-rights groups. And if you’re in a church that is specifically telling you to give money to such groups, I would encourage you to–at a minimum–go to your church leaders and say, “You know, I don’t think that’s a very good idea.”

what about the employee$ -

Gay and straight that have worked there for many many years?

Boycott, meet El Pollo Loco locations owned by WKS Restaurant Corporation, owned by Roland Spongberg who dinated $6,000 to Yes on h8te
http://soqueer.blogspot.com/20…..ion-8.html

what about the employee$ -

Gay and straight that have worked there for many many years?

I think the gay community should make an effort to find them new jobs if the business goes under.

Judge Judy

I am sick at heart that I have offended anyone in the gay community…you are treasured to me…

Honestly, I think this is a form of apology. She recognizes that her action offended people. She didn’t weasel out and say IF I offended anyone.

I do believe the gay community is “treasured” to her. Our $20/$50/$100s are all treasure to her and her family. But I don’t think that was an apology. I think she only regrets that this could cost her business.

what about the employee$ -

Gay and straight that have worked there for many many years?

As a business person responsible for those employees, she should have been thinking about them before she chose to support discrimination against not only her customers but as you have pointed out, some of those employees. The employees should organize and call for her to resign. The aunt that started the business must be spinning in her grave right about now.

Honey you simply don’t udnerstand. Marriage is a contract with the state. Churches may execute ceremonies but it’s a state contract and always has been. From the dawn on time.

Let me speak to you REAL slowly.

Should you get divorced,

who would perform that?

Your priest?

Your Rabbi?

WISE UP!!!!

seems harsh to boycott a business that employs 89 people, many gay, because one person, on her own, gave a 100 bucks.
the manager has said “We don’t share her views as the management. They don’t press us to do anything that we don’t want to do, and we never talk about politics or religion. I don’t understand why we got connected to something going on at the top.”

i actually pity her, el coyote, and the employees.

i could understand a personal or word-of-mouth boycott, but this seems extreme.

are we going to track down the other 400,000 hundred-dollar-donating mormon’s and boycott where they work too?

it is not possible or efficient and seems mobbish.

we should stick to boycotting businesses that donated money, not businesses that hire donating mormons.

this was done to us by the Church of LDS, not this poor dumb woman or the guy that washes dishes and is happy to have a job in this economy.

i dont think LDS cares if el coyote goes belly up or if the gays and latinos working there loose their job.

If you live in California, you can ask your state legislators to pledge their vote against Prop. 8 if the California Supreme Court decides that it is a revision to the state Constitution, rather than an amendment.

The legal case against Prop. 8 is stronger than a lot of the stories on it acknowledge. Here is some of the legal background.

What we need to ask the Marjories of the world– Why they are so hellbent on imposing their notion of morality on everyone else? We’re happy enough to let them lead their intimate personal lives however they choose. They are the ones determined to define the personal lives of others. They need to understand that in this respect they are not conservatives.

Marjorie is typical of Mormons: Pray, Pay and Obey.
Cognitive thought is not tolerated.
The entire issue is a classic case of The Stockholm Syndrome.

The Mormons weren’t the sole evildoers in this operation:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…../c/…

“Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons.

Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California.”

I say some Catholic parishes need some picketing too.

Now I’m as mad as the next guy about this horrible mandate, however, I have to say, I’m pretty pissed at our side for taking things for granted and underorganizing at the outset. We allowed the other side to get their message out first to people who could have been our allies. All these protests are kinda shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped.

I feel like everyone in San Fran and WeHo are so ghettoized that they never dreamed their rights were threatened. (I had people calling me at the No on 8 office asking when the victory party was being held, but they said they didn’t have time to come in to phone bank)

thnaks for your coverage of this lisa/