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	<title>Comments on: Debate Wrap-Up:  Obama Didn&#8217;t Hurt Himself</title>
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	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: PaulinSF</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12179</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulinSF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12179</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It will work fine for Obama to point ot the areas of agreement between them…he just has to quit saying, “I agree with McCain.” He has to start saying, “This is another one of those points where McCain agrees with me.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will work fine for Obama to point ot the areas of agreement between them…he just has to quit saying, “I agree with McCain.” He has to start saying, “This is another one of those points where McCain agrees with me.”</p>
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		<title>By: PraedorAtrebates</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12177</link>
		<dc:creator>PraedorAtrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12177</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;His wife seems to get under his arthritic craw.  He likes to bitch-slap her around and call her a c*nt.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’s also probably touchy about being a collaborator with his N. Vietnamese captors during Vietnam.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>His wife seems to get under his arthritic craw.  He likes to bitch-slap her around and call her a c*nt.</p>
<p>He’s also probably touchy about being a collaborator with his N. Vietnamese captors during Vietnam.</p>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12176</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12176</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Jane.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jane.</p>
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		<title>By: cmccbald</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12175</link>
		<dc:creator>cmccbald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12175</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You write:  “Obama needs to stop agreeing with McCain and reinforcing his message.  It doesn’t make him look statesmanlike, it makes McCain look right.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Really.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We hear a lot about bipartisanship.  People in the middle, especially, seem to want that.  More importantly, McCain claims to be the bipartisan maverick who can reach across party lines, put country first, etc., etc.&lt;br /&gt;
Obama showed what bipartisanship actually looks like.  One cannot be bipartisan if one never says anything nice about the other side.    &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for reinforcing McCain’s message, note that Obama’s technique is to acknowledge a point of agreement, then follow that up with a “but” — and then a often a shiv.  Noting points of agreement makes it easier for people to accept, almost in sorrow for those on the fence, what comes after the “but.”  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At one point, Obama noted that a willingness to sit down and negotiate with one’s enemies makes it easier to rally support for the use of force if that becomes necessary.  Duh.  After 8 years of George W. Bush, however, most Americans may have forgotten this basic point of international relations, of…well, of statesmanship.     &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Last night, therefore, we saw what bipartisanship and statesmanship — and leadership — actually look like.  And you missed it.  Somehow.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write:  “Obama needs to stop agreeing with McCain and reinforcing his message.  It doesn’t make him look statesmanlike, it makes McCain look right.”</p>
<p>Really.</p>
<p>We hear a lot about bipartisanship.  People in the middle, especially, seem to want that.  More importantly, McCain claims to be the bipartisan maverick who can reach across party lines, put country first, etc., etc.<br />
Obama showed what bipartisanship actually looks like.  One cannot be bipartisan if one never says anything nice about the other side.    </p>
<p>As for reinforcing McCain’s message, note that Obama’s technique is to acknowledge a point of agreement, then follow that up with a “but” — and then a often a shiv.  Noting points of agreement makes it easier for people to accept, almost in sorrow for those on the fence, what comes after the “but.”  </p>
<p>At one point, Obama noted that a willingness to sit down and negotiate with one’s enemies makes it easier to rally support for the use of force if that becomes necessary.  Duh.  After 8 years of George W. Bush, however, most Americans may have forgotten this basic point of international relations, of…well, of statesmanship.     </p>
<p>Last night, therefore, we saw what bipartisanship and statesmanship — and leadership — actually look like.  And you missed it.  Somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: shell</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12174</link>
		<dc:creator>shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12174</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Even if he doesn’t give it full expression, being a little hot under the collar suits him.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree — BUT you are sane.  Believe it or not, way too many Americans will like Obama, IF he doesn’t act like an ANGRY BLACK MAN.  And there are a lot of Americans who don’t consider themselves RACIST, but see blacks and whites in a different light.  Blacks can’t get away with much of what white America can.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So — I think Obama NOT showing real anger is to his advantage.  If only all Americans could see him as a PERSON rather than a BLACK MAN.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Even if he doesn’t give it full expression, being a little hot under the collar suits him.”</p>
<p>I agree — BUT you are sane.  Believe it or not, way too many Americans will like Obama, IF he doesn’t act like an ANGRY BLACK MAN.  And there are a lot of Americans who don’t consider themselves RACIST, but see blacks and whites in a different light.  Blacks can’t get away with much of what white America can.</p>
<p>So — I think Obama NOT showing real anger is to his advantage.  If only all Americans could see him as a PERSON rather than a BLACK MAN.</p>
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		<title>By: cmccbald</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12173</link>
		<dc:creator>cmccbald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12173</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You write:  “he (Obama) never really grazed the old buzzard.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Really.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama nailed McCain repeatedly as wrong on Iraq.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On more than one occasion, he mentioned the $10 billion dollars a month that the war costs — a figure that becomes more and more important as bailout costs mount and McCain complains about a few billion a year in earmarks.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama countered McCain’s bracelet with one of his own.  Very effective.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama nailed McCain for taking the focus off Afghanistan and letting bin Laden escape and thrive.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama effectively used Kissinger against McCain on Iran.  He also got in the point that McCain doesn’t seem to know who the real leader of Iran is.  McCain, on the other hand, started off that segment by sounding as if he is running for PM of Israel. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama was much stronger on the threat of loose nukes, which is the most frightening threat we face.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, I guess if you are worried about the threat from Spain, you probably thought that McCain won.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write:  “he (Obama) never really grazed the old buzzard.”</p>
<p>Really.</p>
<p>Obama nailed McCain repeatedly as wrong on Iraq.  </p>
<p>On more than one occasion, he mentioned the $10 billion dollars a month that the war costs — a figure that becomes more and more important as bailout costs mount and McCain complains about a few billion a year in earmarks.</p>
<p>Obama countered McCain’s bracelet with one of his own.  Very effective.</p>
<p>Obama nailed McCain for taking the focus off Afghanistan and letting bin Laden escape and thrive.  </p>
<p>Obama effectively used Kissinger against McCain on Iran.  He also got in the point that McCain doesn’t seem to know who the real leader of Iran is.  McCain, on the other hand, started off that segment by sounding as if he is running for PM of Israel. </p>
<p>Obama was much stronger on the threat of loose nukes, which is the most frightening threat we face.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I guess if you are worried about the threat from Spain, you probably thought that McCain won.</p>
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		<title>By: postxian</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12172</link>
		<dc:creator>postxian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12172</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Obama &lt;strong&gt;has&lt;/strong&gt; to maintain a “Jackie Robinson” demeanor.  That is extremely important.  And he is doing it &lt;em&gt;superbly&lt;/em&gt;.  Wow. Nothing less than heroic.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama <strong>has</strong> to maintain a “Jackie Robinson” demeanor.  That is extremely important.  And he is doing it <em>superbly</em>.  Wow. Nothing less than heroic.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12171</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12171</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, he really dislikes McCain, so much so that he ended the evening with a hearty, “Good job, John” and a strong handshake.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama should have brought up the lobbyists who are running McCain’s campaign, his Keating ties, his intentions to start another war, his recklessness in choosing a clearly unqualified person as his running mate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Maybe Obama should listen to Tina Fey’s Palin and realize he needs to “…want it more.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I want someone gutsy enough to look someone in the eyes and impale them on their own words to succeed the criminal currently in the WH and Obama didn’t show me anything.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, he really dislikes McCain, so much so that he ended the evening with a hearty, “Good job, John” and a strong handshake.</p>
<p>Obama should have brought up the lobbyists who are running McCain’s campaign, his Keating ties, his intentions to start another war, his recklessness in choosing a clearly unqualified person as his running mate.</p>
<p>Maybe Obama should listen to Tina Fey’s Palin and realize he needs to “…want it more.”</p>
<p>I want someone gutsy enough to look someone in the eyes and impale them on their own words to succeed the criminal currently in the WH and Obama didn’t show me anything.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12169</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12169</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;definately a tactic not a strategy, the strategy was to stabalize Iraq&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, they claim ’stabilizing Iraq’ is only a tactic in the larger strategy of removing safe havens or points of strength from Al Qaeda (who supposedly wanted to take over Iraq), so we can minimize AQ.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, wouldn’t it be simpler to find them and kill them, rather than conquering the rest of the Earth to remove any “hills” they *might* want to take?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bush is a weenie.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>definately a tactic not a strategy, the strategy was to stabalize Iraq</p>
</blockquote>
<p>But, they claim ’stabilizing Iraq’ is only a tactic in the larger strategy of removing safe havens or points of strength from Al Qaeda (who supposedly wanted to take over Iraq), so we can minimize AQ.</p>
<p>But, wouldn’t it be simpler to find them and kill them, rather than conquering the rest of the Earth to remove any “hills” they *might* want to take?</p>
<p>Bush is a weenie.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12168</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap-up-obama-didnt-hurt-himself/#comment-12168</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;strategy is your overall goal, tactics are used to achieve that goal
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That was exactly my point. The Surge was a tactic, not a strategy.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s really not worth getting into. It gets complicated when you have multiple layers. The strategy is to achieve peace, so the tactic is to destroy Al Qaeda. But, the strategy is to get rid of Al Qaeda, so the tactic is to round ‘em up, flush ‘em out, chase ‘em into caves, and crush them. But, the strategy is to round ‘em up and the tactics are to find them, entice or chase them somewhere, bring forces to bear and destroy them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s complicated.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You’re better off wrasslin’ a Russian bear.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<blockquote><p>strategy is your overall goal, tactics are used to achieve that goal
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That was exactly my point. The Surge was a tactic, not a strategy.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It’s really not worth getting into. It gets complicated when you have multiple layers. The strategy is to achieve peace, so the tactic is to destroy Al Qaeda. But, the strategy is to get rid of Al Qaeda, so the tactic is to round ‘em up, flush ‘em out, chase ‘em into caves, and crush them. But, the strategy is to round ‘em up and the tactics are to find them, entice or chase them somewhere, bring forces to bear and destroy them.</p>
<p>It’s complicated.</p>
<p>You’re better off wrasslin’ a Russian bear.</p>
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